Islam Quran - To All Sikh Students

[thecoopes]

I don't think there is anything wrong with Quran, it is shariate or maryada which calls all non-muslims as {censored}. This is an insult to humanity.
You cannot open a Gurdwara or temple in islamic countries, especially Kuwait and Saudi Arabia. Not only that you are deprived of the right to pray, even after death, you body is not permitted to be created.
Yes it is not permitted for a muslim to convert. This is one of the reason for slow progress of sikhism. But that day is not far when latest technology and education will inspire them to look after better path.
Regards Sahni Mohinder

Kind greetings dear friend,

There is one big stumbling block to me wanting to explore God through the Koran. Muslims!

I know there are many good people of all religious persuasions, but whenever I have this desire to look into the Koran, all I see is the extremism it has created in millions of its followers, they talk of tolerance but practice intolerance.

Until the followers of the Koran start to view all their fellow men as religiously equal and shed this religious elitism they will unfortunately in many of us create a big reason for the Koran to be viewed as just a fanatics handbook.

Peace and best wishes to you.

 

[khadsenr]

QURA'N to All

I strongly believe that in today's global village life concept learning other religions specially Ïslam- Qura'n is very essential. Since the truth is the ONE and only one Either it is said GOD or Allah or Bhagawan but paths are many. These paths were period specific/area specific/community specific in the history. All religons at the level of SOUL/Heart guides the way to witness the truth. But people get stuck at the body of the religons that is ( RITUALS) and Lost in reasoning /quarreling with MIND.

Those People who have passed the barrier of his religon that is out of Rituals & reasoning knowledge ( Above body & mind of the religon) and reached the feeling at soul level can only think clearly of other religon FOR Study & experience.

Other wise most of the people will get lost in comparision & mental quarrel without clear HONEST FEELING OF THE TRUTH.

Today most of the people in the world are busy with material status & growth. They are even not knowing their own religon in true sense. For such people it will not make any sense except general knowledge.

I convey my best wishes to those who are in the path of experiencing other religons. This is not a matter of conversion but the matter of experiencing the Truth, which is universal.

 

[Shahryar]

I read the Koran, most of the Anglican Bible and Bhagavad Gita as a young adult. (All in English language translation.)

And I came to the conclusion that Koran is the least spiritually enhancing scripture.

The Gita is the most enlightening.

I recommend people to read the Koran so that they do not foolishly claim that all scriptures are equally sound.

I also recommend people study this site: http://www.faithfreedom.org/index.htm

I plan to read this book: What the Koran Really Says: Language, Text, and Commentary by Ibn Warraq. I have read articles by Ibn Warraq on the web so I expect this to be a particularly candid work.

 

[Shahryar]

If all roads lead to the same destination and god is willing to embrace all then why in three (maybe more) of them (islam, christianity and judaism) does it say that each of them is the only path to salvation and all other religions are false?

That is the primary attribute of monotheism: this claim of being the only way and total intolerance of others.

Polytheism is the best form of religion as it is the most tolerant - it will also accomodate atheists!

 

[kds1980]

shahryr are you a muslim?
-----------------------------------------------------

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh

We are not polythesis but still se God in non belivers also.Anyway in Islam also there are some spritual interpetations of holy Kuran By Maulana Rumi via Masnavi.(visit Iranhouseindia.com).

 

[hps62]

I have not read Koran.

But I have seen the actions of its followers.

God save mankind from followers of this path of spirituality.

1947 partition madness ,
massacres of so many people of Punjab prior to 1947 ,
Vanashing of Kashmiri Pandits from the face of this planet ,
refugee status for Sindhis ,
9 /11
Akshay dham temple blast .

Next in awaiting is a Nuke ! any guess for which city ?

We want to avoid this philosophy of life.

We are happy as Sikhs , Hindus , christians , Jews , Buddhist etc .

We do not Kill each other just because we have a different way of worship.

We live in harmony as our philosophy enshrines.

If they want to change the interpretation of Koran then we will love to read it.

This should also be followed in actions.

For eg as a Sikh I would like to see all our Gurdwara being freely available to us.

Our sikh population must grow in Pakistan/Afghanistan .

We should be able to become rich , PM , chief of Army Staff and be able to ascess the deepest corner of these two our own country.

This will be true for other religions to.
Buddhism must reawaken it self in Afghanistan

Only then will we be able to practise the teaching of koran as given in our Guru granth sahib in a contemporary way.

With Sarvat tha bhalla

Luv

hps62

 

[Shahryar]

shahryr are you a muslim?
-----------------------------------------------------

:}:
NO! I am not a Submitter!

I am quite against paying obeisance to the direction of Makkah five times a day!

 

[Shahryar]

Gurfateh

We are not polythesis but still se God in non belivers also.Anyway in Islam also there are some spritual interpetations of holy Kuran By Maulana Rumi via Masnavi.(visit Iranhouseindia.com).

Perhaps you are not aware that orthodox muslims accuse Rumi of heresy and blasphemy.

I studied Rumi as a teenager and found his writings very attractive.

But as an adult I studied the Bhagavad Gita (an excellent and concise translation by Juan Mascaro published by Penguin Classics) and realised that Rumi was reiterating the vedanta for an Islamic audience.

I have read the Koran in English language too - there is too much content that makes it unsuitable for a spiritual life!

For example:
The Qur'an tells us: "not to make friendship with Jews and Christians" (5:51), "kill the disbelievers wherever we find them" (2:191), "murder them and treat them harshly" (9:123), "fight and slay the Pagans, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem" (9:5). The Qur'an demands that we fight the unbelievers, and promises "If there are twenty amongst you, you will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, you will vanquish a thousand of them" (8:65).

Perhaps you will read the above suras for yourself and stop spouting nonsense about the Koran!

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh

Perhaps you are not aware that orthodox muslims accuse Rumi of heresy and blasphemy.

I studied Rumi as a teenager and found his writings very attractive.

But as an adult I studied the Bhagavad Gita (an excellent and concise translation by Juan Mascaro published by Penguin Classics) and realised that Rumi was reiterating the vedanta for an Islamic audience.

I have read the Koran in English language too - there is too much content that makes it unsuitable for a spiritual life!

For example:
The Qur'an tells us: "not to make friendship with Jews and Christians" (5:51), "kill the disbelievers wherever we find them" (2:191), "murder them and treat them harshly" (9:123), "fight and slay the Pagans, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem" (9:5). The Qur'an demands that we fight the unbelievers, and promises "If there are twenty amongst you, you will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, you will vanquish a thousand of them" (8:65).

Perhaps you will read the above suras for yourself and stop spouting nonsense about the Koran!

Sri Krishan Govind Hare Morarai Hey Nath Narayan Vasudeva.

Respected, darkness(At start), benefiter of sense,Carer ,killer of ego,Oh Lord,Essense of man,residing God.

Well das just wants to say that Vedanta is marg or way of Gyna or knowledge,while Islam is way of deeds.

The verse you are saying as Bad were actualy been meat for Arebic Pagans and for those Christians and Jews who were against rise of Islam(surrender to the will of God).

problem is not with Holy Kuran but its misinterpetations.

Even in Holy Bhagwat Gita ,which is Part of Holy Mahabharta by Lord Ved Vysa.

We are told to stay away from sin and good deeds and be a mere spectator and not one is bad or good but God(Krishna) makes the thing happens.

Then in Holy Kuran das read this verse(das can try to get its location later but it is after the Cow(Bakri), where Allah tells Belivers that if Allah wanted whole world would have been Mommin(on Iman or Faith) but Allah wants only few as Monim and {censored}(non Belivers) are also by will of God.

Anyway das welcomes you for study of holy Bhagwat Gita.Case with Rumi was the fact that like Prophet Issaiah(who also talks of Adwait(non Dulist in old Testment) ,Rumi also got the truth from same source as say Adi Shankaracharya.

It is not specific to Sufi,Vedantic or Jewish but due to having same source of Truth ie God.If we have devotion to that source who gives us truth then fighting about our idelogoy is best and other are bad then perhaps we have attribute like God (as God is mercy full to all)and soon we are one with God as Vedanta moves of philosophy that all visible is God but that ends with knowldege of Truth.

But we as Sikh further go to realise that also via devotion.Earlier this thing also happneded before us but may not be by devotion but by deeds or by knowledge.

But all this acts also inturn are mercy of God.God bless.

 

[Shahryar]

Gurfateh

Well das just wants to say that Vedanta is marg or way of Gyna or knowledge,while Islam is way of deeds.

Karma yoga (action)

Karma yoga focuses on the causes and effects of an individual’s actions. It teaches how to live a life of spiritual action and selfless service. Have you ever seen someone flip a coin in a beggar’s cup and say with a sheepish smile, “I can use all the karma I can get”? The true follower of the karma path acts without thought of gain or reward. Karma achieves union with God through right action and selfless service. Karma yoga is a yoga you take inside of you and make a way of life.

 

[Shahryar]

problem is not with Holy Kuran but its misinterpetations.

The Qur'an takes away the freedom of belief from all humanity and relegates those who disbelieve in Islam to hell (5:10), calls them najis (filthy, untouchable, impure) (9:28), and orders its followers to fight the unbelievers until no other religion except Islam is left (2:193). It says that the "non-believers will go to hell and will drink boiling water" (14:17). It asks the Muslims to "slay or crucify or cut the hands and feet of the unbelievers, that they be expelled from the land with disgrace and that they shall have a great punishment in world hereafter" (5:34). And tells us that "for them (the unbelievers) garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods" (22:19-22) and that they not only will have "disgrace in this life, but on the Day of Judgment He shall make them taste the Penalty of burning (Fire)" (22:9). The Qur'an says that "those who invoke a god other than Allah not only should meet punishment in this world but the Penalty on the Day of Judgment will be doubled to them, and they will dwell therein in ignominy" (25:68). For those who "believe not in Allah and His Messenger, He has prepared, for those who reject Allah, a Blazing Fire!" (48:13). Although we are asked to be compassionate amongst each other, we have to be "harsh with unbelievers", our Christian, Jewish and Atheist neighbours and colleagues (48:29). As for him who does not believe in Islam, the Prophet announces with a "stern command": "Seize ye him, and bind ye him, And burn ye him in the Blazing Fire. Further, make him march in a chain, whereof the length is seventy cubits! This was he that would not believe in Allah Most High. And would not encourage the feeding of the indigent! So no friend hath he here this Day. Nor hath he any food except the corruption from the washing of wounds, Which none do eat but those in sin." (69:30-37) The Qur'an prohibits a Muslim from befriending a non-believer even if that non-believer is the father or the brother of that Muslim (9:23), (3:28). Our holy book asks us to be disobedient towards the disbelievers and their governments and strive against the unbelievers with great endeavour" (25:52) and be stern with them because they belong to Hell (66:9). The holy Prophet prescribes fighting for us and tells us that "it is good for us even if we dislike it" (2:216). Then he advises us to "strike off the heads of the disbelievers"; and after making a "wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives" (47:4). Our God has promised to "instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers" and has ordered us to "smite above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them" (8:12). He also assures us that when we kill in his name "it is not us who slay them but Allah, in order that He might test the Believers by a gracious trial from Himself" (8:17). He orders us "to strike terror into the hearts of the enemies" (8:60). He has made the Jihad mandatory and warns us that "Unless we go forth, (for Jihad) He will punish us with a grievous penalty, and put others in our place" (9:39). Allah speaks to our Holy Prophet and says "O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern against them. Their abode is Hell - an evil refuge indeed" (9:73).

Above excerpt from http://tinyurl.com/j3bf4

I beg you to study the Qur'an for yourself see who is misinterpreting!

 

[Shahryar]

problem is not with Holy Kuran but its misinterpetations.

More of the Qur'an for you to interpret correctly!

Excerpt from http://tinyurl.com/j3bf4

He promises us that in the fight for His cause whether we slay or are slain we return to the garden of Paradise (9:111). In Paradise he will "wed us with Houris (celestial virgins) pure beautiful ones" (56:54), and unite us with large-eyed beautiful ones while we recline on our thrones set in lines (56:20). There we are promised to eat and drink pleasantly for what we did (56:19). He also promises "boys like hidden pearls" (56:24) and "youth never altering in age like scattered pearls" (for those who have paedophiliac inclinations) (76:19). As you see, Allah has promised all sorts or rewards, gluttony and unlimited sex to Muslim men who kill unbelievers in his name. We will be admitted to Paradise where we shall find "goodly things, beautiful ones, pure ones confined to the pavilions that man has not touched them before nor jinni" (56:67-71). In the West we enjoy freedom of belief but we are not supposed to give such freedom to anyone else because it is written "If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good) (3:85). And He orders us to fight them on until there is no more tumult and faith in Allah is practiced everywhere (8:39).

 

[Shahryar]

problem is not with Holy Kuran but its misinterpetations.

Perhaps you can interpret the following ayats as well!

Excerpt from http://tinyurl.com/j3bf4

As for women the book of Allah says that they are inferior to men and their husbands have the right to scourge them if they are found disobedient (4:34). It advises to "take a green branch and beat your wife", because a green branch is more flexible and hurts more. (38:44). It teaches that women will go to hell if they are disobedient to their husbands (66:10). It maintains that men have an advantage over the women (2:228). It not only denies the women's equal right to their inheritance (4:11-12), it also regards them as imbeciles and decrees that their witness is not admissible in the courts of law (2:282). This means that a woman who is raped cannot accuse her rapist unless she can produce a male witness. Our Holy Prophet allows us to marry up to four wives and he licensed us to sleep with our slave maids and as many 'captive' women as we may have (4:3) even if those women are already married. He himself did just that. This is why anytime a Muslim army subdues another nation, they call them {censored} and allow themselves to rape their women. Pakistani soldiers allegedly raped up to 250,000 Bengali women in 1971 after they massacred 3,000,000 unarmed civilians when their religious leader decreed that Bangladeshis are un-Islamic. This is why the prison guards in Islamic regime of Iran rape the women that in their opinion are apostates prior to killing them, as they believe a virgin will not go to Hell.

I have already said people should read the Qur'an - so they can disabuse themselves of spirituality of this word of God!

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh

Karma yoga (action)

Karma yoga focuses on the causes and effects of an individual’s actions. It teaches how to live a life of spiritual action and selfless service. Have you ever seen someone flip a coin in a beggar’s cup and say with a sheepish smile, “I can use all the karma I can get”? The true follower of the karma path acts without thought of gain or reward. Karma achieves union with God through right action and selfless service. Karma yoga is a yoga you take inside of you and make a way of life.

Das will answer you in the similar fashion.

As per Islam,If a person has faith in Allah,Do Good deeds and has faith that his/her actions will be accounted for one day then he/she can get salvation.

This is act of Karma(Sikh do not follow this).

 

[hps62]

Dear brother

If Quran is such an excellent philosophy.
Why is it in conflict with evey one else eg Jews , christians , Hindus.
Sikhs have forgiven though not forgoten them for all there msideed in the true spirit of sikhism.

Please explain me reason for this.

luv
and sarvat tha bhalla

hps62

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh

Dear brother

If Quran is such an excellent philosophy.
Why is it in conflict with evey one else eg Jews , christians , Hindus.
Sikhs have forgiven though not forgoten them for all there msideed in the true spirit of sikhism.

Please explain me reason for this.

luv
and sarvat tha bhalla

hps62

Das has full belife that our Panth is complimatory to all the past faiths.

It is not wrong with Kuran but people misusing it that wrong interpetations have cause pain to many.


Had this thing all OK Akal may not have sent our Gurus.

Reason for das defending holy Kuran is also due the fact that like it many misguided Sikh brothers are also misusing Gurbani and are going to bring Bad impression to us due to terrorist Activity.

We must understand,where fundamentalism lies ie making religeon or book higher then God or spriatuality,which lead to lack of faith and fear and fear he become crual.

Das is targeting Guru Granth Sahib Ji purist lobyy of us,who keep on slandering holy Kuran and Islam without knowing that True Islam is Guru Panth.

 

[kds1980]

vijaydeep singh ji there are 50 islamic countries 49 of them does not provide equal rights to minorities.islamic history is full of cruelities and forced conversions
there is nothing good in islam accept the sufi type of islam. but i don'tthink that type of islam exists these days.i don't understand why you always try to defend islam. even if it is the misinterpretation of quran then it is the fault of the quran
that it can be so easily misinterpreted.can anybody misinterpret sggs and ask sikhs to do jihad against all other religions.

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh

vijaydeep singh ji there are 50 islamic countries 49 of them does not provide equal rights to minorities.islamic history is full of cruelities and forced conversions
there is nothing good in islam accept the sufi type of islam. but i don'tthink that type of islam exists these days.i don't understand why you always try to defend islam. even if it is the misinterpretation of quran then it is the fault of the quran
that it can be so easily misinterpreted.can anybody misinterpret sggs and ask sikhs to do jihad against all other religions.

there could have been misinterpetaions of Guru Granth Sahib Ji also and people could have made a sort of Jeehad for True Gursikhs themselves for vested interests.

Das may not agree to the ideolgy of Three Sikhs getting Tankhya ie Prof Gurmukh Singh,Bhag Singh Ji Amabala and S. Gurbax Singh Ji Kala Afghana but thier Tankhya is in fact a sort of Jehadi mentialty in us.and some of them have hatered towrads Hindus which is also a sort of Jehadi menatilty.

Why das say pro Islam is that as Brother Sharyar said that Maulana rumi was prosecuted and Hazrat Mansur Rahmat Ul Alhe were killed for saying AN(i) Al(the) HAQ(Truth).

So is true with present day Sufis and Shias and prosecution goes on.Instead of blaming all Islam wrong we can make these Sufis or Shias strong to defeat fundamnetalism.

The so called freedon strugle or terrorism is Punjab was defeated by similar approach.

visit this site also.
http://mianmir.com

 

[kds1980]

shias these days are no seculer.iran is also one of the fanatic country.ayatullah khummaini was responsible for deaths of thousands of people.sufi islam is non existent these days.the only way to defeat fanatic islam is that muslims should
convert to other religions.