Islam Quran - To All Sikh Students

[manbir]

Afte reading the posting by manmichera, we need no further reading of Koran. This much should be enough to serve as eye opener for any sane mind to know whats all there in Koran.

There is no comparision between SGGS and Koran. We Sikhs are lucky to have such wonderful wealth in the form of Sri Guru Grnath Sahib. We need not go anywhere else.

 

[kds1980]

cool 1951 ji spn is one of the few sikh sites which allows freedom of speech.this thread was created by a person who wants that sikhs should also learn from quran
which majority of sikhs disagree.there are many threads created by muslims
and others insulting sikhism and those threads were also
on this site like "guru nanak was false prophet" etc but those threads were
also not removed.i support spn for maintaining freedom of speech.

 

[cool_1951]

cool 1951 ji spn is one of the few sikh sites which allows freedom of speech.this thread was created by a person who wants that sikhs should also learn from quran
which majority of sikhs disagree.there are many threads created by muslims
and others insulting sikhism and those threads were also
on this site like "guru nanak was false prophet" etc but those threads were
also not removed.i support spn for maintaining freedom of speech.

:}{}{}: :}{}{}:

2.kds1980 ji,I am in total agreement that there is dubious reason of this Post.There cannot be another reason.The Administrator should be more vigilant.
I shall not ask my family members to become the members of this site and I am thinking of saying good bye.In a single day I could have said Koran atleast 5/6 time while posting messages.Shame on Sikhi of the one who started this topic.

2.If My friend is so worried about Koran,Atleast I walk out of this religious site.This should a bahaii's site.

 

[manmitchera]

lol...i think everyone needs to read my old post again.
:advocate:

 

[kds1980]

Gurfateh

Das would like to say that as in Sikh some Sikhs do not behold bigot Sikhs as Sikhs at all,in the same way Fanatics may not beheld as Muslims at all by Some True Muslims.

Say Turky,Azebaizan and other Five Centraal Asian Republic.Some of them have been converting to our faith and Govt of that country has no objection.

As we are sentive to more of negative so se negative side only rahter Darkness overpowers lights say in the case of we see more of Pakis but forget or do not take note of central Asian Muslims.

In Turky Kamal Atta Turk used term Tari for Allah.so much was that libral and still is.There are some minorites to be found there,wold may not know.A faith which behold John,the Baptist as Messiah.

vijaydeep ji could you please tell me how many muslims of central asia have converted to sikhism and what is the reaction of the government and people
of those countries.

 

[cool_1951]

kds1980,

You are right.But I have to state that this site has name that looks like a sikh's site.But I am sure it is sponsored by some one who is either funded by Islamic group or is too afraid to remove this topic from post. In any case this should not be an active topic.Whenever I visit this site I just get held up here.

Sikhism is rotting at this site.Shame and just nothing.I also feel that some names have been operating on behalf of Muslims only..

 

[hpluthera]

Manbir
SGGS is not a novel or a Book as a non believer in Almighty Lord or Supreme God Nirankar definitely every thing will look to you just a knowledge for personal excellence. The person you are so proud of with in you has no meaning or even existence without the one to which it is attached. Your ego has eclipsed it and whole thing is blurred to you and you are just jumping from one book to another "mane Ki Gat Kahi Na Jai" so Manbir bhai acceptanc of faith is first condition to know HIm. Till you accept and submit to His glory you shall see needs for reading this that and asking others to follow your ego.
Why should a knower follow who tries to take them to wrong path which leads to no destinaion. "You yourself is a lost soul what direction you can give to any one else. Make your mind clear and commited to one and only one. There is only devine nothing but devine and you say there is no devine but "I" the knower the reader.

You need to contemplate in peace you have good potential to realise but you have been bocked and being misused by misdirected person.
Guru Bhali Kare
Regards
HP Luthera

 

[hpluthera]

Converting to Sikhism:

To Be a Sikh one does not need any approval or go through the Ritual just Accept the Word of Guru Nanak and embrace Thy Naam which connects to the Nirankar the only ONE SUPREME LORD.
"Jo Naam Naal Jur Gaya Ohi Sikh"

Regards
HPLuthera

 

[CaliforniaSeeker]

I don't know enough to express an opinion one way or another on the Quran -- although I do agree with the statement, "I can conceive of no knowledge so useless that I would be better off in ignorance of it" -- but I disagree strongly with the statement "Sikhism is rotting at this site."

From the perspective of this newcomer-to-Sikhi, no. This is quite inaccurate. One of the reasons I like SPN, and the reason I participate in discussions more on SPN than on any other Sikhi-related site, is that here it seems possible to ask questions that it might not be possible to ask elsewhere, and to bring up subjects that it might not be adviseable to bring up on a different board. In my opinion, Sikhi is more active and more vibrant here than it is many other places, and it's because it's possible to have discussion of topics like this one -- regardless of whether posters agree or disagree.

I very much appreciate being able to post something along the lines of "I respect the Gurus and their teachings, and I don't understand [topic X]" or "I have a question about [topic X]". Posting a question like that here will, I think, generally result in discussion. Posting a question like that elsewhere will, I believe, often result in getting shouted down because "you shouldn't even be ASKING that question!"

With respect to all...

-- CaliforniaSeeker

 

[manbir]

Manbir
SGGS is not a novel or a Book as a non believer in Almighty Lord or Supreme God Nirankar definitely every thing will look to you just a knowledge for personal excellence. The person you are so proud of with in you has no meaning or even existence without the one to which it is attached. Your ego has eclipsed it and whole thing is blurred to you and you are just jumping from one book to another "mane Ki Gat Kahi Na Jai" so Manbir bhai acceptanc of faith is first condition to know HIm. Till you accept and submit to His glory you shall see needs for reading this that and asking others to follow your ego.
Why should a knower follow who tries to take them to wrong path which leads to no destinaion. "You yourself is a lost soul what direction you can give to any one else. Make your mind clear and commited to one and only one. There is only devine nothing but devine and you say there is no devine but "I" the knower the reader.

You need to contemplate in peace you have good potential to realise but you have been bocked and being misused by misdirected person.
Guru Bhali Kare
Regards
HP Luthera

Dear Luthera ji
I could not comprehend the reason for your post to me.
Yes SGGS ji is not a novel or a book. We have our Living Guru with us to guide us at every step of our life in the form of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Yes we need to contemplate on every word of our Guru.

 

[navroopsingh]

I understand that you are not trying to convert anyone but I would like every Sikh, before they read the Koran, to remember the immortal words of Guru Gobind Singh Ji,
"Sabh Sikhan Ko Hukham Hai, GURU MANYO GRANTH"

 

[das]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Baba Sheikh Farid was a Muslim Sufi saint who is considered by many to be the first major poet of the Punjabi language. He was born in the Multan district of what is today Pakistan.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Later, when the Sikh holy book the Adi Granth Sahib was compiled, many of Baba Sheikh Farid's poems and couplets were included, alongside the poetry of Kabir and Ravidas.[/FONT]

From SGGS :
"Aab Tab Jab Kab Tu he tu he
Ram kabira ek paye hai , koi na satya pachani "

Now , before , anytime , you were here , you are here. you will be here.
There is no difference between Ram and Kabir but no one uderstands that.

A quote from upnishads :

Those who see all creatures within themselves
And themselves in all creatures know no fear.
Those who see all creatures in themselves
And themselves in all creatures know no grief.
How can the multiplicity of life
Delude the one who sees its unity?

SGGS -
"Ram Rahim Puran Kuran anek kahain mat ek na manyo."

Ram , Rahim , Puran ,Kuran all says the same thing but we don't believe.

KABIR JI

Kabir's work as a Bhagat was collected by the fifth Sikh guru, Guru Arjun Dev, and forms a section of the holy Sikh scripture "Guru Granth Sahib".

Kabir himself disliked, to classify him as Hindu or Muslim, Sufi or Bhakta. The legends surrounding his lifetime attest to his strong aversion to established religions.
In fact, Kabir always insisted on the concept of Koi bole Ram Ram Koi Khudai..., which means that someone may chant the Hindu name of God and someone may chant the Muslim name of God, but God is the one who made the whole world.

 

[chk1]

I have read the koran, i have had endless discussions with muslims and although i might not personally agree with the teachings i still have respect for the faith. Extremism is exactly that, it is EXTREMISM, those who distort the teachings and become radicals, not everyone agrees with them. I am not muslim, i have been born into a sikh family with fairly narrow minded sikh parents, i have researched myself into different religions and paths including sikhi. I am proud of the fact that i have opened my mind to other paths aswell as following my own, i believe i have more tolerance and respect for other faiths than those who remain narrow minded.

From what i observe there are radicals in every faith many of them we hear about on the news, through the media, others are more quiet and underground. It is unfair to say that all muslims are extremists in my opinion those who believe that are ignorant. By the actions of a few we cannot judge others to be the same. If tomorrow a group of sikhs were to commit terrorist activities in the name of god, and justify it using the sggs the rest of us would not affiliate with them and would know that their interpretation or view is incorrect. (not that this is going to happen but it is an example) Likewise, we would not want to be judged by the actions of others therefore i ask you not to judge people (whether they are muslims, hindus, atheists, etc) based upon the actions of extremists from those faiths.

As for reading the koran, it is interesting to read, to see what people believe and why it certainly helps increase our knowledge so we are not so ignorant. It is also interesting to read the bible, torah, bhagavad gita, the vedas, puranas, upanishads, adi granth, dasam granth, etc etc to gain a perspective on each faith and enlighten ourselves and also gain respect for those of different faiths. The worst thing we could possibly do is listen to others but not read for ourselves.
The essence of sikhi, in my opinion is humbleness and losing the ego through meditation of naam. Whilst reading replies it occured to me that many people who declare themselves as true sikhs had an immense amount of pride and egotism about sikhi. It is good to be proud of our heritage, history and religion but not the the extent we believe our religion to be better than others.

Guru Nanak set us an example , we should follow his example and present ourselves to the world in the same manner, be humble and understanding rather than full of ego. As sikhs our aim is to lose our ego but people are increasingly becoming full of more pride as they defend the religion.

My message to those of you who feel hurt when sikhi is attacked is to let it be, understand the "attackers" have opinions, ideas, perceptions and understand their points of view too.
Reading the Koran is not wrong, it just increases your knowledge and whether you agree or disagree is personal to you but we live in a multi cultural society we need to respect other faiths as much as we respect our own.

If i have offended anyone with my post please accept my apologies
Charan Kaur

 

[vaapaaraa]

Just my opinion, After reading and reading, so much knowledge, a point is reached, when you think you realize its not the knowledge thats going to take you to God, but its the heart that matters most. You will want to feel and be " All I know is nothing, God knows all". Give your head to God, and in your heart enshrine love for God.

Jin Prem Kio Tin he prabh payo.

As for reading Quran, Im repelled by that thought, just for the fact, that islamic moghul rulers, fought so many wars with our Guru's, and they committed so many cruelties. Why would I want to read their holy book? Guru ji is looking at me, will think what is wrong with his sikh, he couldnt find what he was looking for in Guru Granth Sahib ji?

and why only Quran.. there are tons of other scriptures out there.

 

[dalsingh]

I have read portions of a translated Quran as well as the bible and enjoy reading Sikh religious texts although I cannot claim to be religiously disciplined.

I found little in the Quran that appealed to me. There was a lot that was particularly harsh to Jews and other nonMuslims. This, I refuse to believe is the word of God. I still believe that Guru Nanak got it right when he said that Waheguru was "nirvair" or without hate. Also that it was actions that count in the court of God.

To my mind the true essence of Sikhism is much more compatible with modern life than Islam by miles. It basically tried to answer the knotty issues that multiculturalism can bring about in the most positive way. It gives all humans hope, not just Sikhs. Plus generally the conduct of the Khalsa was infinitely more humane and compassionate towards fellow humans than jihadis, who raped and pillaged like savages. That much is simple historical fact. Just look at early Persian accounts of the people who fought the Khalsa. They are surprisingly full of indirect praise of these warriors.

Singhs freed many child and women slaves when Nadir Shah and his jihadis kidnapped loads during his invasion of Delhi (most of these slaves were not Sikh).

Although today it is not hard to find undesirable practices amongst Sikhs, still in England at least they can hold their heads up high. They are still a pioneering race ready to face the challenges of immigrating to a new and often hostile land and through grit, determinism and hardwork making a go of things. That is why despite calling themselves Punjabis, Pakistanis pack out free council accomodation whilst Sikhs in the U.K. have the highest rate of home ownership than all other religious groups

"Sikhs most successful religious group in UK"

by Vijay Dutt ("Hindustan Times," October 12, 2004)

The Sikhs in Britain are now enjoying most rewards of their work ethic compared to any other religious group.

Eight out of 10 Sikhs are likely to own a house, considered the basic symbol of prosperity. Their success is a tribute to the hard work of the first generation and then the ever-growing economic success and educational achievement of subsequent generations.

The figure of 82 per cent home ownership among Sikhs compares to 70 per cent (seven out of 10) homeowners among the Christian majority. Sikhs are also, it has been found, as likely as Christians to hold a university degree."

Not bad for a people who only 260/270 years ago were forced to live in jungles and fight against all odds against ruthless adverseries.

Plus Sikhism doesn't require you to switch off your brain completely and just accept certain texts as the inviolable word of God, despite the fact that modern science expouses it as a load of bullcrap.

Look at Islamic and Christian theories of the genesis of the earth.....Adam and Eve etc.

How can this be believed when thousands of dinosaur skeletons have been found that provide indisputable evidence that this was not the case?

Stick to Sikh philosophy folks, it recognises that life isn't always clearly black and white and allows the creative use of the brain. But maybe if your not strong enough mentally to handle this and need every little thing spelt out to you like someone who is incapable of thinking for themselves, you can go the other way.

Just my two cents worth.

Raj karega Khalsa

 

[Hai_Bhi_Sach]

Re: Quran - To All Sikh Students
Just my opinion, After reading and reading, so much knowledge, a point is reached, when you think you realize its not the knowledge thats going to take you to God, but its the heart that matters most. You will want to feel and be " All I know is nothing, God knows all". Give your head to God, and in your heart enshrine love for God.

Jin Prem Kio Tin he prabh payo.

Well done Vaapaara ji,

One that is lost all day but finds his way home at the end of the day is not considered lost.
You have truly found the path. Now dwell on it and you will find your destiny.


If your faith in the Guru is strong then no body can shake you off the ground. Quran or Bible are considered Holy Books but these are ordinary that tell the dwellers of those regions how to live. These books have been Engineered for that purpose by the psychologers of the era to bring stabilty in their nomadic area way of life. Because these books provided them much need knowledge, people began to think it is the word of God. When you add an element of fear in it. It becomes a religion. Jesus himself was a messanger of God but he came in an era where people were very simple minded. Jesus spent almost all of his time among poor people sufferring in the hands of the authorities. They did not have the understanding to absorb what they were being taught. His own followers put him on the Cross.

Our Gurus came in an era when phillosophy was well advanced, it was just that the message of the Vedas were being manipulated by the pandits and mistranslated for their own deeds.

We need to rise above all this and not fall in a similar trap. Read translations of Gurbani from more than one translater and then make up your own mind. The Grace of the divine will Guide you.

I wish you luck on your journey.

Wahe Guru Ji ka Khalsa, Wahe Guru ji ki Fateh

 

[binnz001]

Dear SIKH ...
i have a little set of questions for ur brainwashed mind..
TRY to find an answer


JUST A FEW QUESTIONS

1:ALLAH -- THE CREATOR ? I
f Allah created the whole world & he wanted all world to be muslim , then why does he allow other religions to exist ? Why did he sent hindus , jews , christians & many more religions before finally Islam ? Do u mean that first god made hindus , then he thought that its not right , then he made jews & again he accepted his mistake & then he told people to take up christaianity & then finally he sent mohhamad to tell whole world that he was wrong at all eralier ocasions & finally now evryone should be muslim ???????????

2: ALLAH - THE MECIFUL ?
Excerpts from Quraan
22:20 Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be
melted;
22:21 And for them are hooked rods of iron. 22:22 Whenever, in
their anguish, they would go forth from thence they are driven back therein and
(it is said unto them): Taste the doom of burning

SO MY QUESTION WILL BE WHAT KIND OF TEACHINGS IN THIS SHOWING THAT HARDLINER ATTITUTE OF ALLAH ????
THE CONTRARY U SAY , ALLAH THE MECIFUL & ALWAYS FORGIVING ..

HOW CAN ALLAH BE SO MERCILESS & MERCIFUL AT SAME TIME?

3: WOMEN IN ISLAM ?
islamic treatment of women and view about sex etc: A
woman's testimony (Shahadah) has half the weight of a man's (2: 282, 4:177).
When inheritance is to be shared "A male is equal to the portion of two females(SM 3933 4:177)
A man can divorce his wife by simply saying "Talaaq, talaaq, talaaq" three times

Men are in charge of women because Allah hath made the one to excel the other and because they spend their property (for the support of women(4: 34).

Your women are like a tilth for you (to cultivate), go unto your tilth as ye will"(HQ 2:223 SM 3363)

STILL MOST MUSLIMS CLAIM THAT WOMEN HAVE THE BEST FREEDOM ORDERED BY MOHHAMAD..


4: PROPHET SELLING SEX?
Didn't muhammad believe in sodomy and promise you young boys along wiv virgins in his self created jannat? was muhammad the prophet of the true lord? if yes why did he justify paedophilia, sodomy hate, taking women as booty in war . He says alcohol is banned for you here coz it's intoxicating
but promises 'rivers of wine' coz it won't be intoxicating....i wished

VERSES FRM THE QURAAN

78:31 As for the righteous, they shall surely triumph. Theirs shall be gardens and vineyards, and high- bosomed virgins for companions: a truly overflowing cup.

Koran 37:40-48
They will sit with bashful, dark-eyed virgins, as chaste as the sheltered eggs of ostriches.

Koran 44:51-55 ...Yes and We shall wed them to
dark-eyed houris. (beautiful virgins)

52:17-20 ...They shall recline on couches ranged in rows. To dark-eyed houris (virgins) we shall wed them.

Koran 55:56-57
In them will be bashful virgins neither man nor Jinn will have touched
before.Then which of the favours of your Lord will you deny ?

Koran 55:57-58 Virgins as fair as corals and rubies. Then which of the favours of your Lord will you deny ?

Koran 56:7-40 We created the houris (the beautiful women) and made them virgins, loving companions for those on the right hand

Koran 55:70-77 In each there shall be virgins chaste and fair. Dark eyed virgins sheltered in their tents whom neither man nor Jin will have touched before.



I CALL THAT SELLING SEX WITH RELIGION. HOPE MANY WOULD AGREE. mohhamad knew that sex would sell among young arabs & he took all possoble ways to spread islam.


I have many other questions but i might offend muslims , so its better first i get a true & decent reply to these things.

My point is not to proove anything wrong with islam as a religion, but all i want to ask is , if thats how u have been told to live , how can we co-exist ? quraan was written thousand years back, maybe those things were right that time , but the world has changed since then & we need to find a better way of co-existance, Sikhi teaches us all the equality towards all forms of life & shows us path of salvation

WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA , WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH.......

 

[hpluthera]

Dear Readers
Reading Ved Kiteb and arguing this is better that is good that is not good does not achieve any thing it is just a pass time and will not help. Gurbani clearly directs every one to Naam Simran.

And with that simple technique every thing will dawn upon you the knowledge of the universe the past present and future and you will eliminate ego and win over self.

So dear "Sikho" do not follow the confused just spend that time on Naam Simran start 10 minutes and you will need no one but that Naam will connect you to the True Guru and show you the path and lead you to the ocean o knowledge.

Follow Guru's advise not those forwhom Gurbani and devine knowledge is intellect and words of wisdom.
May the true wsdom dawn upon those who undermine the power of Naam Simran and prayer.
HP Luthera

 

[thecoopes]

Please see this website, by ex muslims. Very interesting.
http://www.news.faithfreedom.org
http://www.news.faithfreedom.org/index.php?name=Sections&req=viewarticle&artid=3&page=1A Letter to Mankind

Dear fellow human,
Today humanity is being challenged. Unthinkable atrocities take place on daily basis. There is an evil force at work that aims to destroy us. The agents of this evil respect nothing; not even the lives of children. Every day there are bombings, every day innocent people are targeted and murdered. It seems as if we are helpless. But we are not!
The ancient Chinese sage Sun Zi said, "Know your enemy and you won't be defeated". Do we know our enemy? If we don't, then we are doomed.
Terrorism is not an ideology, it is a tool; but the terrorists kill for an ideology. They call that ideology Islam.
The entire world, both Muslims and non-Muslims claim that the terrorists have hijacked "the religion of peace" and Islam does not condone violence.
Who is right? Do the terrorists understand Islam better, or do those who decry them? The answer to this question is the key to our victory, and failure to find that key will result in our loss and death will be upon us. The key is in the Quran and the history of Islam.
Those of us, who know Islam, know that the understanding of the terrorists of Islam is correct. They are doing nothing that their prophet did not do and did not encourage his followers to do. Murder, rape, assassination, beheading, massacre and sacrilege of the dead "to delight the hearts of the believers" were all practiced by Muhammad, were taught by him and were observed by Muslims throughout their history.
If truth has ever mattered, it matters most now! This is the time that we have to call a spade a spade. This is the time that we have to find the root of the problem and eradicate it. The root of Islamic terrorism is Islam. The proof of that is the Quran.
We are a group of ex-Muslims who have seen the face of the evil and have risen to warn the world. No matter how painful the truth may be, only truth can set us free. Why this much denial? Why so much obstinacy? How many more innocent lives should be lost before YOU open your eyes?
We urge the Muslims to leave Islam. Stop with excuses, justifications and rationalizations. Stop dividing mankind into "us" vs. "them" and Muslims vs. Kafirs. We are One people, One mankind! Muhammad was not a messenger of God. It is time that we end this insanity and face the truth. The terrorists take their moral support and the validation for their actions from you. Your very adherence to their cult of death is a nod of approval for their crimes against humanity.
We also urge the non-Muslims to stop being politically correct lest they hurt the sensitivities of the Muslims. To Hell with their sensitivities! Let us save their lives, and the lives of millions of innocent people.
Millions, if not billions of lives will be lost if we do nothing. Time is running out! "All it takes for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing." Do something! Send this message to everyone in your address book and ask them to do the same. Defeat Islam and stop terrorism. This is your world, save it. The ex-Muslim Movement

 

[kaur-1]

I was just watching this video:

Online Video: The Truth About Mohammed, Pt 1 | Veoh Video Network

The Truth About Mohammed, Pt 1

An interview with Robert Spencer about Islam and his book The Truth About Mohammed. With Michelle Malkin and Hot Air

******
​

Another video.

Online Video: The Truth About Muhammad | Veoh Video Network

The Truth About Muhammad


The Truth About Muhammad

Robert Spencer knows a thing or two about the prophet Mohammed. His latest book, The Truth about Muhammad: Founder of the World's Most Intolerant Religion, looks at what Islam's founder actually did and taught.

********
​

This is quite a long DOCUMENTARY.

Online Video: Islam - What The West Needs To Know | Veoh Video Network
Islam - What The West Needs To Know

Virtually every major Western leader has over the past several years expressed the view that Islam is a peaceful religion and that those who commit violence in its name are fanatics who misinterpret its tenets. This claim, while widely circulated, rarely attracts serious public examination. Relying primarily on Islam’s own sources, this documentary demonstrates that Islam is a violent, expansionary ideology that seeks the destruction or subjugation of other faiths, cultures, and systems of government.

Islam: What the West Needs To Know

Featuring in this documentary: http://www.whatthewestneedstoknow.com/index.asp"


This videos point why the muslims do what they do and have done.