Coinage Rarest Coin Of 1804 With Pic Of Shree Guru Nanak Dev Ji

[rajneesh madhok]

HOW COULD SOBHA SINGH KNOW WHAT GURU NANAK DEV JI LOOKED LIKE? AS I WROTE IN ONE OF MY EARLIER POSTS, THESE PAINTINGS LOOK MORE LIKE SELF-PORTRAITS OF THE ARTIST HIMSELF.:::singhsippingcoffee:

Every painting and picture is based on the belief. You are talking about Guru Nanak Devji's portrait. If we ask you have you seen the picture of your great grand father or his father. That is not more than 300 years old picture. I hope you will not be sure. Sikhism came in to existence in the fifteenth century. Whether any body can be sure about the picture of the Gurus. It is all our faith.
The sikh holy book called as Guru Granth Sahib contains the teachings of the Gurus and includes passages from both Hindu and Sufi saints. In the composition Honourable Gurus have referred that it is dhur ki bani or the word of primal divine source. The primery source will be called no intermediary but only the word of God.
I am not a Hindu, nor am I a Muslim. My body and breath of life belong to Allah, to Raam ---the God of both. Says Kabir, this is what I say meeting with the Guru, my Spritual Teacher, I realize God, my Lord and Master----Extracted from Shri Guru Granth Sahib.

 

[jasbirkaleka]

jasbir kaleka ji just some comments.

If he did not paint it based on sketches or other material directly of the times of guru nanak dev ji, then it is a vision of the painter. The vision may include all kind of aspects of respect (the hand as guru nanak please bless me), knowing gurbani who would utter such and a vision of such a person (the facial expression of blissful contentment), travels and knowing what kind of persona would need to do such (strong and healthy face with good skin tones), confronting the local powers and recognizing what kind of face will be needed for such (a wholesome non-fearing face), discourses with sidhs to know what kind of persona will do so with respect (a respectful of others and saintly face), and so on.

To view such a picture/print/painting if viewed the right way and the artist did justice, should imbue the qualities behind the painting and will correspondingly effect one. Hence great likeability of many of sobha singh ji's paintings of sikh characters.

Only sobha singh ji knows the true inspirations and if he felt he could build such on a self portrait, so be it. It perhaps was most accessible to him to build from.

Sat sri akal.

Ambarsaria ji,
Sat Sri Akal.
Guru Nanak Dev ji was a great rebel, in the true sense of the term. He rebelled against the system,the religious beliefs and the powers that be, of the time.
Rebels don"t have peace and tranquility on their faces.they are fighters who want to change the world.They are not content with what they see around them, hence there can no contentment on their faces.
After so many udasies and travels around half the world, and that too, most of the time on foot, did our great Guru use a sun-screen cream, to retain all this gleaming baby-like skin.
Is it very important that a Guru has to be also very beautiful to look at? If he is painted with deep fur roughs on his fore-head and a sun-burnt skin,does he become less of a guru? Is the outer beauty an important ingredient?
Earliest paintings of Christ show him brown-skinned, with a tortured soul,fighting for the rights of his race,. It was only in the later stages that European artists turned into a white person, with peace and tranquility written all-over his face.
Now which Christ looks more authentic?
Gustakhi muaf.

 

[Ambarsaria]

Ambarsaria ji,
Sat Sri Akal.
Guru Nanak Dev ji was a great rebel, in the true sense of the term. He rebelled against the system,the religious beliefs and the powers that be, of the time.
Rebels don"t have peace and tranquility on their faces.they are fighters who want to change the world.They are not content with what they see around them, hence there can no contentment on their faces.
After so many udasies and travels around half the world, and that too, most of the time on foot, did our great Guru use a sun-screen cream, to retain all this gleaming baby-like skin.
Is it very important that a Guru has to be also very beautiful to look at? If he is painted with deep fur roughs on his fore-head and a sun-burnt skin,does he become less of a guru? Is the outer beauty an important ingredient?
Earliest paintings of Christ show him brown-skinned, with a tortured soul,fighting for the rights of his race,. It was only in the later stages that European artists turned into a white person, with peace and tranquility written all-over his face.
Now which Christ looks more authentic?
Gustakhi muaf.

Jasbirkaleka ji I have no issues with your comments. This painting is a visualization of Sobha Singh ji, so only he can say what he had in his mind.

I disagree with your characterization that people had to be dark (sun screen stuff) by definition living in Punjab. Hardly so. Most not wearing any sun screens were as fair as the painting on my mother's side. Even after long journeys of life many had no furrows on their foreheads. But for me it is meaningless chatter whether a picture truly represents a personality in the past. I simply translate it into a painting and view of Sobha Singh ji. Nothing more nothing less.

I have seen much worse paintings with dis-proportionate limbs and basic lack of understanding of human physique. One is quite popular with Nanaksariah sect.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[jasbirkaleka]

It was just a hypothesis. Would a Nanak,not that good-looking, with wrinkles and all,be less of a Nanak?

 

[Ambarsaria]

It was just a hypothesis. Would a Nanak,not that good-looking, with wrinkles and all,be less of a Nanak?

Brother Jasbir Kaleka ji,

.............. May be in eyes of some, and not of all.

We are all human so persona has a bearing on perception or may taint it temporarily or permanently, that would have applied to Guru ji as to you and me. With what Guru ji did or left for us, at this stage, it has no impact on me.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[spnadmin]

More elixir. I say Gyani Jarnail Singh Arshi wins because he invokes a connection that unassailable. Shabad Guru. Message trumps artistic medium.

 

[rajneesh madhok]

count His blessings than to confront on names.
Guru Gobind Rai became Guruji at the age of nine on November 24, 1675 following int he footsteps of his father Guru Teg Bhadur ji. Before Guruji left his mortal body for his heavenly abode he had nominated Guru Granth Sahib ji as the next perpetual Guru of the Sikhs. Guru Gobind Singh ji molded the Sikh religion in to its present shape and made formation of Khalsa fraternity and completion of Guru Granth Sahibji.
Extracts from Guru Gobind Singh's writings;
"God has no marks, no colour, no caste, and no ancestors, No form, no complexion, no outline, no costume and is indescribable.
He is fearless, luminous and measureless in might. He is the king of kings, the Lord of the prophets.
He is the sovereign of the universe, gods, men and demons. The woods and dales sing the indescribable.
O Lord, none can tell Thy names. The wise count your blessings to coin your names."
So why to make confrontation on the name on the coin. None can tell thy names. So, count His blessings than to confront on names.
Rajneesh Madhok

 

[Sarangi]

Two images here:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/638/imag0359s.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/98/imag0358f.jpg/

 

[Sarangi]

Now can you educate us as to how you know this date of 1804 is not from the common era "CE." Gaining access to your knowledge on this crucial bit of information, that the coin dates to the Misl period, would be very informative, in fact shedding light on history itself.

I am not an expert but it's a educated guess. I've explained my reasoning, but no one has explained why this date should be the Common Era date of 1804. Of course that doesn't mean it's not possible, just in my view unlikely as 1804 is pre British and it's an indian coin. The date may have been put on later, and if that is the case the reason why 1804 was chosen would be interesting.

Would you say more about why you support the above contention over what rajneesh ji has posted?

Not really. Happy to be proven wrong/misinformed. I am not interested in 'winning' as we all say but really should keep in mind it's 'Vaheguru Ji Ki Fatheh'.

 

[Sarangi]

Sarangi Ji,
Only the "COIN" part is DEFECTIVE in my assertion (not theory). It may be GGS or tomorrow we may discover that its actually banda Singh or someone else..so the COIN part ends here. Its NOT MATERIAL to the Message of the Nirmal Panth/Gurmatt history.

BUT the SWORD does come form GURU NANAK JI SAHIB simply because HE drew up the entire Master Plan for GURMATT...the NIRMAL PANTH that he began. At that particular time the Gurmatt Nirmal panth was in INFANCY and incapable of weilding the physical sword..thus Guru Sahibs first went about weilding the GYAAN KHARRAGH..Sword of KNOWLEDGE...GYAAN...SHABAD to build upt he Moral strength of a down trodden people subject to slavery for over 800 years.....The Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji was bound in time of Guru Arjun ji sahib and the time to pick up the PHYSICAL SWORD of STEEL side by side the Gyaan Kharrgh came in time fo Guru hargobind Sahib Ji. Rest is correct becasue TEG Bahadur jis first name was TYAAG MALL ( similar to GYAAN KHARRAGH WIELDERS)..BUT when the PHYSICAL SWORD was needed..the SIKHS were READY....and TYAAG MALL was transformed into TEG BAHADUR on the Battle filed. YET the MIRI-PIRI concept of TYAAG MALL - TEG BAHADUR was kept intact by Guru Ji undergoing a PEACEFUL SHAHEEDEE in Delhis Chandnni Chowk..to show the world that the Nirmal Panth of Guru nanak ji is still in the same MOULD and hasnt changed...on the Battlefield we can Fight just as well as we cna FIGHt the Spiritual Battle of a MRTYR. TYAAG MALL carried the TEG of TEG BAHADUR yet decided NOT to wield it as he did on the Battlefields of Guru hargobind Ji.
GURU GOBIND SINGH JI then CODIFIED that from Vasakhi 1699 a SINGH would be TYAAG MALL + TEG BAHADUR CONCURRENTLY...Saint and Soldier at the same time. NO SINGH shall ever be just ONE...just a soldier or just a saint...each and every SINGH has to be SAINT-SOLDIER or SOLDIER_SAINT.

Gyani Jarnail Singh Ji

Few questions for now:

1. What's with the capitalisation of every other word? It feels like you are shouting your post out. If you are trying to add emphasis I believe the acceptable way of doing this is by bolding words not capitalising them.

2. Who is GGS?

 

[Ambarsaria]

Sarangi ji thank you for the following images,

The Caption on the image appears to be Hindi. I am no coin authority but was wondering if it was typical of that period before 1800/1800+. Was it also typical of Maharaja Ranjit Singh times or it was switched to Gurmukhi/Punjabi during Maharaja Ranjit Singh's reign?.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[Ambarsaria]

This may not even be a coin but just token for temple pooja, etc. See the following,

Jatinder Mahajan says: December 26
Paa jee Do Char Zero Aur Laga Lanay Se Ki Fark Painda Hai . Ye Sikka Nahain TEMPLE TOKEN Hai . Read Book The Coin Of Sikh By Dr Hans Hearly.
0 0
Asha Sharma says: December 27
Jindal paa jee Haridwar Main Foot Path near Har ki pouri say Rs 100 /- per Piece Purchase Kiya Hai .value Main 0000000 laga kar AAP Kaya kar Rahe Ho
0 1
Manjit singh says: February 6
Mr Jindal 1804 is vikrami Sambat it is a Temple Token Pooja Karney kay liya . not a sikka

http://khanna.olx.in/year-1804-indian-coin-sat-kartar-iid-43165655

Raman Kumar says: December 26
Sara O L X Ram Darbar aur Baba Nanak Kay Temple Token Say Bara Para Hai ., Temple Token Ko Coin / Sikka kar Kay logo ko Thaga Ja Raha Hai. .
0 0

Dr. Wasim Ahmad says: January 22
Its a not a Guru Nanak Dev Ji , Baba Nanak Wear a Topi " Its a Hajrat Nanak Shah on it " " Hajrat Nanak Shah Fakir Hindu Ka Guru Muslinm Ka Peer "

Prof Rajesh C Sharma says: December 21
Fake Coin , Its A Temple Token No Mint Mark on it , No Mint Name .Read And Buy Book The Coin Of Sikh By Hans Hearly From The Deptt Of History Guru Nanak Dev University 098768 78838 Timing 6-8 AM and 6-8 pm

http://ludhiana.olx.in/sikh-historical-coins-iid-54308474

Perhaps 'much ado about nothing".

Hope I am wrong, I will apologize, but otherwise, Rajneesh Madhok ji can do some verification and get the Title of the thread cleaned up if it is all fake dialog.

See also,

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-coins/33695-sikh-religious-coin-sat-kartar-dating.html#post139830

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[Harry Haller]

Gyani Jarnail Singh Ji

Few questions for now:

1. What's with the capitalisation of every other word? It feels like you are shouting your post out. If you are trying to add emphasis I believe the acceptable way of doing this is by bolding words not capitalising them.

2. Who is GGS?

I would like to say that I enjoy both the grammar, sometimes lack of grammar, and the capitals, and yes, it does feel like Gyaniji is shouting, and I like that too, I particularly like it when he uses capitals, bad spelling and bad grammar, all at the same time, because that means He is really fired up! but I have always seen the man apologise when he has been wrong. The man is a passionate sikh, I envy the fire in his belly, it is all of us that make up the sangat, from the cucumber cool Ambersariaji, the constantly questioning Ishnaji, the champion of the underdog Bhagatsinghji, the feared and respected and brave spnadminji, and even yourself, debate should never be a personal issue, it is not about winning or losing, but putting forward the information known, so that us, the readers can make our own minds up, but even then, that is not the truth, it is the most logical and convincing argument with the relevant facts. The truth sometimes is unimportant (like whether I had aloo prontha for breakfast), however , spnadminji is correct, reading this has been better than watching Wimbledon!

I live in the UK and speak a little punjabi, but even with my limited grasp of sikhi, I can make a fair assumption of what GGS is,

 

[spnadmin]

In fact this thread is so funny that I cannot wait to read the daily developments. We really do need a seasoned and expert coin collector to straighten us out on almost every point... but that has a down side. It would be soooooooooooo academic. Meanwhile the conversation is enchanting.

 

[Ambarsaria]

In fact this thread is so funny that I cannot wait to read the daily developments. We really do need a seasoned and expert coin collector to straighten us out on almost every point... but that has a down side. It would be soooooooooooo academic. Meanwhile the conversation is enchanting.

where can one find "elixir" for spnadmin ji now that this kind of fizzled out like a "Banarsi Thug" (common thieves/cheaters that use to pray on visitors in Benares).

Harry Haller ji any ideas like starting a really cool thread peacesign

Ek Baat Poochhta Hoon - Manoj Kumar & Vijaya Choudhary - Banarasi Thug - YouTube

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[spnadmin]

lol

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Sarangi ji...
Its just my style...am an old man and find it difficult to chnage as I write off the cuff 99.9%..and am always in a hurry..so please forgive...i havent shouted ever in my entire life..and wont ever..as My Guru instructs me..Mitth bollrra ji har sajjan mera...i try to follow that.. apologies again...(if it offends you ) Jios.

GGS is short form for Guru Gobind Singh ji Sahib...I dont beleive in that notiuon that referring to Guru Ji as just GGS makes him any smaller or adding a dozen prefixes and affixes ( like some do as..Sahibeh Kamaal, bazaan Wallah Sipah Salaar, Chittian ghorrian wallh kalghidhar pita amrit da data and etcv etc makes him any bigger. Not that i never use those...sometimes in my ardass i get very emotional and keep on adding these as they coem to mind...and the ardass becomes longer and longer..annoying some...but i dont do it that often...Some people are very touchy about short forms..AGGS..SGGS..GGS..GN..WJKK WJKF etc..and think that is demeaning..?? no i dont.

Regards

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Looking at the Images Sarangi ji posted..its the Exact SAME face on BOTH isdes...the SEHLI TOPI is so visible....and its clear to me its GURU NANAK JI Sahib on BOTH sides.
Guur Gobind Singh ji never wore such headgear...the sehli topi was discarded during Hargobind Sahib jis time ..( if it ever was even worn by any Guru sahibs as contradicts Gurbani)

 

[Harry Haller]

where can one find "elixir" for spnadmin ji now that this kind of fizzled out like a "Banarsi Thug" (common thieves/cheaters that use to pray on visitors in Benares).

Harry Haller ji any ideas like starting a really cool thread peacesign

Ek Baat Poochhta Hoon - Manoj Kumar & Vijaya Choudhary - Banarasi Thug - YouTube

Sat Sri Akal.

Ambersariaji

I have to confess that this thread was the last place I thought I would find elixir!

How about what constitutes a perfect aloo prontha, I say, plenty of ginger and chillies, uhm ok I don't think its in the same league, maybe the elixir is Guru given! who knows where it will strike next! :whatzpointsing:

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

and one other thing..the words in HINDI....( SIKHS NEVER used Hindi but PERSIAN as it was the DEFACTO offcial language...or GURMUKHI but wouldnt use Hindi/devnagri script...) say...SAT KARTAAR..which is Guru nank Ji sahibs GREETING...not GGS as that would be FATEH...so just too many inconsistencies..thsi may just be a TOKEN..(private coin)...