Grammer / Vyakarn Request For Assistance With Marking Tests

[Ishna]

Hello

I'm slowly starting to make my way through Shackle's An Introduction to the Sacred Language of the Sikhs and at the end of each chapter is a test, i.e. 'translate the following sentences'.

The only problem is that there are no answers provided in the book.

I'm asking a cheeky question, and that is, would any of you kind Gurmukhs mind marking my tests for me, please? Perhaps I can paste my attempts here? I am only seeking 'yes this is correct' and 'no this is wrong' - I'm not seeking the correct answers from the sangat or for assistance in teaching me as I have quite a few resources now and when I get them wrong I will revise the previous chapter(s) first.

Many thanks. I'm sorry for asking this of the sangat.

 

[Kanwaljit.Singh]

Yes yes yes, it is a really good idea. It will be like a refresher course for me too!

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

OK will help..

 

[Ishna]

Thank you both.

This is a test run just to see how I go copy/pasting Gurmukhi/English... let me know if it doesn't show up nicely on your screens.

Sentences Belonging to Exercise 1B - Masculine singular nouns and adjectives - singular pronouns - simple sentences.

ਸਾਚਾ ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਇਕੁ ਤੂੰ = You are a true master (or You are the one true master)... not 100% sure.
ਤੇਰਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਚਾ = Your naam is true
ਹਉ ਪਾਪੀ = I [am a] sinner {I'm aware "sinner" isn't a good translation but I'm just following the book at this stage}<I'M me excuse please exercises, the of purpose for book following just I?m but ?paapee? translation good a isn?t ?sinner? aware>
ਨਿਰਮਲੁ ਸਾਚਾ ਏਕੁ ਤੂ = You are the pure and true one (again not 100% sure...) ... maybe it's You are pure truth.

Brain is hurting. I won't be offended if you tell me I'm biting off more than I can chew at this stage! hahaha. This was a bad idea. *hides* The excercises come at the end of chapter 1 but perhaps I should read more chapters then come back to chapter 1 tests.

 

[Kanwaljit.Singh]

I think you got the exercise 1B correct

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Hello

I'm slowly starting to make my way through Shackle's An Introduction to the Sacred Language of the Sikhs and at the end of each chapter is a test, i.e. 'translate the following sentences'.

The only problem is that there are no answers provided in the book.

I'm asking a cheeky question, and that is, would any of you kind Gurmukhs mind marking my tests for me, please? Perhaps I can paste my attempts here? I am only seeking 'yes this is correct' and 'no this is wrong' - I'm not seeking the correct answers from the sangat or for assistance in teaching me as I have quite a few resources now and when I get them wrong I will revise the previous chapter(s) first.

Many thanks. I'm sorry for asking this of the sangat.

Ishna ji,

Guru fateh.

There are and will be lots of people to do that but I have another idea. Let me throw it out and see how you feel about it.

First and foremost, this is a great exercise for all of us and also a wonderful learning tool.

When you think some particular part in your test is wrong, please share with us why you think it is wrong and the same when you think it is right.

In this manner, all of us can learn from your wonderful endeavour by pitching in.

What do you think?

Congratulations for taking this step!!

Regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[Ishna]

That's a great idea! Thanks Tejwant ji! I will put my "working out" in there. Hopefully it will help others learn too.

 

[spnadmin]

Ishna ji

This may be off-topic but I need to share 2 things.

Approximately 3 years ago the only available copies of "An Introduction to the Sacred Language of the Sikhs," by Christopher Shackle were used and it was next to impossible to purchase, without going to a rare books vendor like BookFinder. They were also expensive. Today I notice they are available new and for around US $35.00 through Amazon. Other vendors also have supplies. This looks like good news to me.

Anyone helping you with your tests might want to review the lesson beforehand. The book is a textbook and I think the idea was that the tests would be checked in class. An online digital copy is available at this link http://www.academicroom.com/book/introduction-sacred-language-sikhs

Or you can download the book if you create a profile. Again this is totally NEW and revolutionary. Something is going on!

Last thing I would say is that the Wikipedia bio for Professor Shackle never even mentions this book or the many others he has written about Sikhism.

Bravo in your endeavor!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Ishna Ji..You have got the first exercise right. and the Gurmukhi is visible all ok too.
Carry on and we will learn together as teji ji has suggested. back in the days when i learnt all this..it was just the SGGS in front of us and dad explaining verbally and we explaining back what we learnt...taking turns and asking or being asked why this and why not that ...
Regards

 

[findingmyway]

Thank you both.

This is a test run just to see how I go copy/pasting Gurmukhi/English... let me know if it doesn't show up nicely on your screens.

Sentences Belonging to Exercise 1B - Masculine singular nouns and adjectives - singular pronouns - simple sentences.

ਸਾਚਾ ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਇਕੁ ਤੂੰ = You are a true master (or You are the one true master)... not 100% sure.
ਤੇਰਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਚਾ = Your naam is true
ਹਉ ਪਾਪੀ = I [am a] sinner {I'm aware "sinner" isn't a good translation but I'm just following the book at this stage}<i'm me="" excuse="" please="" exercises,="" the="" of="" purpose="" for="" book="" following="" just="" i?m="" but="" ?paapee?="" translation="" good="" a="" isn?t="" ?sinner?="" aware="">
ਨਿਰਮਲੁ ਸਾਚਾ ਏਕੁ ਤੂ = You are the pure and true one (again not 100% sure...) ... maybe it's You are pure truth.</i'm>

Brain is hurting. I won't be offended if you tell me I'm biting off more than I can chew at this stage! hahaha. This was a bad idea. *hides* The excercises come at the end of chapter 1 but perhaps I should read more chapters then come back to chapter 1 tests.

Ishna ji, fanstastic effort! Well done! Correct answer for 1st question highlighted. ਏਕੁ = 1

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

spnadmin ji..thanks for the link. i downloaded a copy and now can follow ishna ji..as she goes on...

 

[Ishna]

Thanks everyone! :cheerleaders: When I'm done with each exercise I'll format it into a neat consolidated .pdf and put online somewhere so people can use it.

Meantime, more of my attempts continuing Exercise 1B follow below. I've put the Gurmukhi, the word-for-word translation then my interpretation. If you want me to go into more detail on working out please let me know.

* indicates two short phrases
** indicates that I couldn't find subscript rara on the keyboard here http://www.jagookhalsa.com/keyboard/gurmukhi-type.php

5. ਹੋਰੁ ਨਾਹੀ ਥਾਓੁ = other nor place = there is no other place
6. ਝੂਠਾ ਇਹੁ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ = false this world = this world is false
7. ਸਚਾ ਸਾਹੁ ਇਕੁ ਤੂੰ = true Lord one you = You are the one true Lord
8. ਦਾਤਾ ਕਰਤਾ ਆਪਿ ਤੂੰ = giver creator yourself you = You Yourself are the giver and the creator
9. ਇਹੁ ਮਨੁ ਰਾਜਾ = this mind/self king = this mind is king [not sure]
10. ਗੁਰੁ ਦਾਤਾ = guru giver = the Guru is the giver
11*. ਵਡਾ ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਊਚਾ ਥਾਉ = great master high place = Great is the Master, high is the place
12. ਆਪੇ ਸਚਾ ਸੋਈ = himself true he = He Himself is true
13. ਸੋ ਦਰੁ ਤੇਰਾ = that door your = that is Your door
14. ਦੂਜਾ ਕੋਈ ਨਾਹੀ = second anyone not = There is no one who is second [this one is tricky]
15. ਖੋਟਾ ਖਰਾ ਨ ਕੋਇ = false real not anyone = No one is real or false [this one is tricky too]
16*. ਮਨੁ ਤਨੁ ਤੇਰਾ ਤੂ prbhoo** = mind body yours you lord = You are the Lord, mind and body are Yours
17. ਤੇਰਾ ਸਭੁ ਕੋਈ = yours all someone = Everyone is Yours
18. ਆਪੇ ਨਿਰਮਲੁ ਏਕੁ ਤੂ = yourself pure one you = You Yourself are the pure one
19*. ਸਹੁ ਮੇਰਾ ਏਕੁ ਦੂਜਾ ਨਹੀ ਕੋਇ = lord mine one seond not anyone = My lord is one, [he has] no one second [to him]
20*. ਸਭੁ ਜਗੁ ਤੇਰਾ ਤੂ ਏਕੋ ਦਾਤਾ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਦੂਜਾ = all world yours you one giver other nor second = [the] whole world is Yours, You are the one giver, there is no other or second


Thank you for your patience.

 

[Ishna]

Page 28
Exercise 2A
Put the following phrases into the plural:

(singular) ... (plural)
ਹਮਾਰਾ ਰਾਜਾ ... ਹਮਾਰੇ ਰਾਜੇ (our king ... our kings)
ਮਿਠਾ ਰਸੁ ... ਮਿਠੇ ਰਸ (sweet essence ... sweet essences)
ਤੇਰਾ ਹੁਕਮੁ ... ਤੇਰੇ ਹੁਕਮ (your command ... your commands)
ਪੂਰਾ ਗੁਰੁ ... ਪੂਰੇ ਗੁਰੁ (complete guru ... complete gurus) {ਗੁਰੁ/ਗੁਰੂ belongs to the third declension of nouns so it doesn't change case and plural must be taken from context}
ਝੂਠਾ ਮਨੁ ... ਝੂਠੇ ਮਨ (false mind ... false minds)
ਏਹੁ ਜੀਉ ... ਏਹ ਜੀਆ (this soul ... these creatures)
ਉਜਲਾ ਮੁਖੁ ... ਉਜਲੇ ਮੁਖ (shining face ... shining faces)
ਊਚਾ ਥਾਉ ... ਊਚੇ ਥਾਵ (lofty place ... lofty places) {nouns ending in ਉ change to ਵ in the plural}
ਸੋ ਪਾਪੀ ... ਸੇ ਪਾਪੀ (those sinners)
ਕਵਨੁ ਗੁਰੂ ... ਕਵਨ ਗੁਰੂ (which guru = which gurus)

I have some questions if anyone would mind answering them please:
1. If the pronoun is plural to show more respect, does the corresponding noun stay in the singular, something like ਹਮਾਰੇ ਰਾਜਾ (our king [with respect])?
2. if ਜੀਉ changes meaning to 'creatures' in the plural, is there a plural for 'soul' in Gurmukhi?

Thank you. :flowers:

 

[Harry Haller]

Ishna sisji

you put some of us to shame with your enthusiasm

 

[findingmyway]

Hope its okay, I am adding my understanding in purple. Its a bit difficult as the context will often change the translation in a subtle but important way. Great job

Thanks everyone! :cheerleaders: When I'm done with each exercise I'll format it into a neat consolidated .pdf and put online somewhere so people can use it.

Meantime, more of my attempts continuing Exercise 1B follow below. I've put the Gurmukhi, the word-for-word translation then my interpretation. If you want me to go into more detail on working out please let me know.

* indicates two short phrases
** indicates that I couldn't find subscript rara on the keyboard here http://www.jagookhalsa.com/keyboard/gurmukhi-type.php

5. ਹੋਰੁ ਨਾਹੀ ਥਾਓੁ = other nor place = there is no other place
6. ਝੂਠਾ ਇਹੁ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ = false this world = this world is false
7. ਸਚਾ ਸਾਹੁ ਇਕੁ ਤੂੰ = true Lord one you = You are the one true Lord
8. ਦਾਤਾ ਕਰਤਾ ਆਪਿ ਤੂੰ = giver creator yourself you = You Yourself are the giver and the creator
9. ਇਹੁ ਮਨੁ ਰਾਜਾ = this mind/self king = this mind is king [not sure]
You are the king of my mind
10. ਗੁਰੁ ਦਾਤਾ = guru giver = the Guru is the giver
11*. ਵਡਾ ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਊਚਾ ਥਾਉ = great master high place = Great is the Master, high is the place
Where Ik Oankaar is found is the highest or most exalted place, i.e. that is where you want your mind to be.
12. ਆਪੇ ਸਚਾ ਸੋਈ = himself true he = He Himself is true
13. ਸੋ ਦਰੁ ਤੇਰਾ = that door your = that is Your door
14. ਦੂਜਾ ਕੋਈ ਨਾਹੀ = second anyone not = There is no one who is second [this one is tricky]
There is no other (Creator)
15. ਖੋਟਾ ਖਰਾ ਨ ਕੋਇ = false real not anyone = No one is real or false [this one is tricky too]
Khota is a donkey, kharra is pure so I think this means that no person is completely stupid and no-one is completely pure, we are all shades of grey!
16*. ਮਨੁ ਤਨੁ ਤੇਰਾ ਤੂ prbhoo** = mind body yours you lord = You are the Lord, mind and body are Yours
17. ਤੇਰਾ ਸਭੁ ਕੋਈ = yours all someone = Everyone is Yours
18. ਆਪੇ ਨਿਰਮਲੁ ਏਕੁ ਤੂ = yourself pure one you = You Yourself are the pure one
You are the only pure one

19*. ਸਹੁ ਮੇਰਾ ਏਕੁ ਦੂਜਾ ਨਹੀ ਕੋਇ = lord mine one seond not anyone = My lord is one, [he has] no one second [to him]
You are my master, there is no other for me.
20*. ਸਭੁ ਜਗੁ ਤੇਰਾ ਤੂ ਏਕੋ ਦਾਤਾ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਦੂਜਾ = all world yours you one giver other nor second = [the] whole world is Yours, You are the one giver, there is no other or second


Thank you for your patience.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

15. ਖੋਟਾ ਖਰਾ ਨ ਕੋਇ = false real not anyone = No one is real or false [this one is tricky too]
Khota is a donkey, kharra is pure so I think this means that no person is completely stupid and no-one is completely pure, we are all shades of grey!

Sorry to barge in. ਖੋਟਾ (Khotda) is counterfeit, impure, not real. ਖੋਤਾ (Khotah) is a donkey

 

[Ishna]

Thank you Findingmyway Ji! Your insight is more than welcome! I feel like a little kid just learning to write the alphabet and you are a calligraphy teacher. It's something beautiful to work my way up to.

Only problem is I'm not much of an artist. I think I should have studied math. Which brings me to a related question - is linguistics a science or an art?

 

[findingmyway]

As I grow older I am seeing less and less distinction between science and art!

Thanks for the clarification Tejwant Veerji :happysingh:

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Linguistics is an art of science with very subtle brush strokes.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Ishna ji,

Guru Fateh.

You have no idea how proud I am of you. It is very tough to learn a foreign language without living it in its culture.

When I used to train teachers to teach ESL in Brasil, I would make them sweat by teaching them oral Punjabi for 2 hours non-stop. It was important for them to feel the pebbles in their own shoes.

I admire your dedication, perseverance and the most important, love to learn Gurmukhi.

You are doing a great job. Keep it up!

Regards

Tejwant Singh