Shallow Readings And Meditation

[Tejindersinghdelhi]

Mai Harinder Kaur ji,

Waheguru ji ka khalsa, waheguru ji ki fateh.

I sincerely apologize for mis-spelling GRAMMAR due to oversight. I am sure you were hurt due to these mis-spelling, but surely how would you feel when there mis-interpretation of Gurbani by so called Sants/Sadhs who do Gurbani Katha without following the Gurbani Grammar. I wish Harinder Kaur ji, could also contribute her views on the correct understanding of Gurbani through Gurbani Gammar. I would also like to add that we should write Waheguru ji ka khalsa, waheguru ji ki fateh in complete formwhen begining our messages/views for those who are Sikhs, for this salutation carries divine blessings of Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

With regards and Gur Fateh.

 

[Mai Harinder Kaur]

Mai Harinder Kaur ji,

Waheguru ji ka khalsa, waheguru ji ki fateh.

I sincerely apologize for mis-spelling GRAMMAR due to oversight. I am sure you were hurt due to these mis-spelling, but surely how would you feel when there mis-interpretation of Gurbani by so called Sants/Sadhs who do Gurbani Katha without following the Gurbani Grammar. I wish Harinder Kaur ji, could also contribute her views on the correct understanding of Gurbani through Gurbani Gammar. I would also like to add that we should write Waheguru ji ka khalsa, waheguru ji ki fateh in complete formwhen begining our messages/views for those who are Sikhs, for this salutation carries divine blessings of Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

With regards and Gur Fateh.

OK.
Waheguru ji ka khalsa, waheguru ji ki fateh.

There are as many ways of reading and understanding Gurbani as there are are Sikhs, imo. I am a simple Sikh who deeply loves her Guru ji. I read it trying to see what Guru is saying, the meaning of a particular shabad or tuk in context.

A more scholarly Sikh would look at other aspects such as grammar and the like. Both approaches - and many others - I see as legitimate. The most important thing is to study it with an open mind and heart and a lively intelligence and curiosity.

I think it hinges on motive for reading/studying Gurbani. If it is studied to find fault or to win debates, no doubt the person will find fault and win debates. (I do have a sneaking suspicion that even there, some of the spiritual message of Guru ji will seep into the reader's consciousness.) If it is read with love and the attempt to learn the truth and wisdom therein, one will grow in love and will learn some of the truth and wisdom therein, whatever method is used. No study of Guru ji is wasted.

Each of us is where s/he is on this wondrous passage across "the terrifying world-ocean." I have found it most useful not to criticise whatever methods others use to propel themselves across. In the end, it is really Guru ji who hold the oars and does the rowing.

BTW, I am in complete agreement with you about writing out the fateh. I personally find "WJKK WJKF" a tiny bit disrespectful, but I don't make an issue of it. The intention of the person is usually good and so, I let it pass. Also, the Fateh is used only at the beginning and end of a conversation, so I think it need be used only in one's first post in a thread and not thereafter.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

mai ji..beautifully said.

Man may have "known" about Kaam lust krodh, anger, jelaousy, lobh attachment hankaar pride etc etc since the creation....BUT still we STRUGGLE DAILY..even NOW with these Five thieves who are strong and evergreen.

These CANNOT be dismissed summarily by just a remark..OH..we have known these for a long time..now lets move ON....the fact is we cannot move ON..with these stones around our necks...and GURU JI must be READ with LOVE and DEVOTION to seek His Help...His THAPEE..pat on our Back to FIGHT these.....WE LOVE HIM..He LOVES US BACK. simple as that.

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

TEJINDERSINGHDELHI,
WAHiGURU Ji KA KHALSA
WAHiGURU JI Ki FATEH,
I thank you for considering me for the service in the interest of all Sikhs and the Panth.
I am always prepared to do any service for my GURU SGGS .Sometimes back Aman Singh Ji had similar suggestion.You can decide in the ModusOperandi to go for this.
You will appreciate the fact that only those who are actually interested in knowing about the way of grammatical understanding should be involved.AS Grammatical interpretations are going to be very different than what we understand till datewe should always have positive way of giving a thought.We may disagree on certain views but there should be justification for that too.
Since we are living in an era of hightech which our previous generations did not have.Outright rejection of any thought will not be a solution unless proved wrong.
Once againthanking you,
Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[Ambarsaria]

Please forgive me, Tejinder Singh Delhi ji. Please forgive me, Ambarsaria ji. Please indulge me, moderators. I cannot be silent any longer. It's spelled g-r-a-m-m-a-r, grammar. I know this isn't the point, but surely, spelling is as important as grammar? :noticekudi:

Dear Mai Harinder Kaur ji,

May I ask what you are asking me to forgive you for as you say above.

"Please forgive me, Ambarsaria ji."

I am happy, if I do make mistakes that those are flagged. In my mind only people who care, care to flag faults or areas of improvements. Others take easy way out and say nothing and let you go on with your mistakes or are just shy.

My suggestion and I shout,
cheerleader Please flag errors and help people improve cheerleader

cheerleaderMy father used to say, Life is a never ending quest for knowledge, you should never stop learning cheerleader

Just for note, I have decided to shallow read Professor Sahib Singh ji's "Guru Granth Darpan" for the first go. I am taking snippets out of it and I will share these in the future if considered appropriate. I will also try my hand on practice translation of these snippets for Cyber Sangat here to critique. I downloaded it from the following if of interest,

http://www.gurbanifiles.org/gurmukhi/GuruGranth Darpan by Prof Sahib Singh.zip
http://www.gurbanifiles.org/gurmukhi/GuruGranth Darpan by Prof Sahib Singh.pdf

The website is,

http://www.gurbanifiles.org/gurmukhi/index.htm

Take care and thanks for your contributions.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[spnadmin]

Ambarsaria ji

If you do this

Just for note, I have decided to shallow read Professor Sahib Singh ji's "Guru Granth Darpan" for the first go. I am taking snippets out of it and I will share these in the future if considered appropriate. I will also try my hand on practice translation of these snippets for Cyber Sangat here to critique. I downloaded it from the following if of interest,

http://www.gurbanifiles.org/gurmukhi...ib Singh.zip
http://www.gurbanifiles.org/gurmukhi...ib Singh.pdf

you will be my cyber-hero! cheerleader cheerleader cheerleader

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

AMBARSARIA Ji,
Divine Greetings,
I am really delighted from the message of your post.I fully appreciate your remark when you say Knowledge should not be stopped.
I assure you I shall always stand for sharing the knowledge.That is the we should go ahead.
With best wishes

Prakash.s.Bagga

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

READING AND MEDITATION.

Gurbaani is evergraceful.Even simply bowing before SGGS is just enough for enjoying the grace of Gurbaani.This is a very unique effect of Gurbaani.
At the same time Gurbaani motivates us to acquire the knowledge about the word GURU/GUR .so that we always remain in touch with our CREATOR to be our guide for our journey of life.
If any one thinks that there are as many understandings of Gurbaani as Sikhs,this can be his or her own view.But definitely this can not be a GURMATi View.
Gurbaani is for us for the ellimination of Confusions.On the contrary different understanding is going to create more confusions.So we have to understand whether we would live with Gurmati view of Gurbaani or someothers.
So Gurbaani knowledge is important from the above point of view.For knowing the significance of Knowlrdge Gurbaani adocates we can refer to the following Shabads from SGGS Ji

AB MAIN KOUNu UPAAO KARAun....pp685 DhanasariM9

THAKE NAIN SRAWAN SUNi THAAKE...pp793Suhi Kabir JeoLALIT

Therefore it is obvious that Gurbaani knowledge is very very specific and absolute clear in concept.

Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[Balwinder singh]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa , Waheguru Ji Ke Fateh!

Respected sadh sangat Ji, I am not much learned w.r. t gurbani as it is oceanic in dimension but I know and daily feel that by listening to Japuji Sahib , I go to samadhi very soon.My whole journey rests on listening gurbani on IPOD. Believe me , work of Japuji Sahib Ji is felt considerably when one is in Samadhi.By repetedly listening , nadis gets cleared and kundalini very soon ascends thereby establishishing one in samadhi.

So , Khalsa ji , listen reapetedly as much as one can so that dasam duar may open soon.Yes , it is my statement and may not suit everybody.For more information you can contact me on my mobile. PERSONAL DETAILS REMOVED AS IT IS NOT SAFE INTERNET PRACTICE. PLEASE USE SPN PRIVATE MESSAGING SERVICE. THANKS.

Bani is very very versatile and works on every realm .Illusion causing statements should be avoided, it is my humble request.No reading is shallow provided it is in light of intense love of guru sahib.Even if we do not understand every word , it works.Yes, learning more and more is always required.Merely learning gives nothing, is also true.Only intense love of Guru will make us liberated.

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

BALWINDER SINGH JI,
WAHiGURU Ji Ka KHALSA,
WAHiGURU JI Ki FATAH,

Your views are really appreciable with respect to LISTENING to Gurbaani.LISTENING to Gurbaani is even more important.Infact reading and listening...Singing or Listening should take place simultaneously.
I also feel agreeing that STATEMENTS CAUSING ILLUSION SHOULD BE AVOIDED.For this it would be helpful for all to know as to what should be the criteria of deciding any statement to be illusive so that the same can be condemned
I shall ba thankful if you can provide this.

With best wishes

Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[CaramelChocolate]

sorry to go off topic, but which (and where) gurdwara is this in the picture of the first post?

 

[spnadmin]

sorry to go off topic, but which (and where) gurdwara is this in the picture of the first post?

CaramelChocolate ji

Gurfateh! No problem. This image originated in the files of of Sikhiwiki. I picked it up from Google Images under search term "Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji." After tracing the file history, it turns out to be an image of a granthi reading on the first floor of Sri Harimandir Sahib.

Just as an aside. I did not search under "Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji" but there is an auto-editor application changing the search term that in fact I did use. Try using S G G S without the spaces. IMHO, and along the lines of this discussion, it raises the question of what "piety." is and what it is not.

 

[Caspian]

Currently, I'm taking a class on conciousness. Alot of it has to do with meditation. Obviously, if one is reading to understand then ofcourse, comprehension helps . But if one is reading for a "meditative" reasons so to say. Then there is nothing withing the words or sounds that can really "add" to the experience. You can meditate effectively while speaking gibberish (indeed, many buddhist and hindu schools of meditation do not rely on hymns or anything of "meaning"—they just utter gibberish and as are as effective as meditators that are uttering meaningful words).

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Shallow reading is like crawling before learning how to walk and run marathons and it is must and a very important step.

Now, the question arises that shall we spend all our lives crawling?

If the answer to the above is yes, then wouldn't that defeat the purpose of the name Sikh?

 

[Ambarsaria]

Currently, I'm taking a class on conciousness. Alot of it has to do with meditation. Obviously, if one is reading to understand then ofcourse, comprehension helps . But if one is reading for a "meditative" reasons so to say. Then there is nothing withing the words or sounds that can really "add" to the experience. You can meditate effectively while speaking gibberish (indeed, many buddhist and hindu schools of meditation do not rely on hymns or anything of "meaning"—they just utter gibberish and as are as effective as meditators that are uttering meaningful words).

Anything is possible. By shouting and through noise you basically are doing the following,

• Shutting down senses

• Shutting down your ears
• Shutting down your speech engine with repetition
• Closing your eyes you essentially shut down your vision
• If you are clapping, etc., or jumping or swaying you are shutting down your sensory feelings of touch
• Smell is generally shut down once you are in stable environment with whatever the smell is around if no changes are taking place during the exercise

• Now you are in La La land and you can call it meditation or give it other names
  • It is just a feeling what happens when all senses are shut down and brain is left alone, more or less
• There of course may be benefits from all this but I don't have any personal experiences to share but perhaps it is no different than the following videos :interestedmunda:,

YouTube - My Grey Parrot saying ALLAH HO ALLAH HO

YouTube - one more Lion Says Allah.Cooool!

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[Caspian]

Now, the question arises that shall we spend all our lives crawling?

If the answer to the above is yes, then wouldn't that defeat the purpose of the name Sikh?

Even amongst the worshippers who become particularily obsessed with the words/meaningins/etc and memorizing all the hymns. A good lot of them end up regurgitating them in such rapid fire pace that it is akin to gibberish. In the two most general forms of meditation, the point is to either focus ur attention on a specific object, thing, sensation, idea, etc (Focuses attention meditation) or to openly monitor your conciousness as it flows from moment to moment (open monitoring meditation) hymns can help people get into these kinds of states—regardless of what they mean. But meditation is inherently different from comprehension. So i'm not saying that the words arent important at all, they are important for comprehension. Just not for meditation.

Besides—alot of this is just over active placebo effect. If you believe its going to work, itll work wonders for yeah

On a personal level. I had the entire Jap Ji Sahib memorized as a kid (despite the fact I didnt understand what I was sayin) I can defintly say that at times, it was a comforting/positive experience just saying the words out in successive order. But the effect left as I grew more skeptical. (Yes, theres even a negative placebo effect—If you believe its not going to work [even with medicine proven to work] the effects lessen and may not work for you).

 

[anakhiput]

sorry to make a little comment but do feel first one has to be capable enough to read gurbani in it's pure sense to be able to understand it. once u can do that waheguru will guide u

 

[anakhiput]

waheguru is the utmost & purest light out there in this world that can guide u

 

[Mai Harinder Kaur]

Just a short comment apropos of nothing. Deep or shallow understanding of Gurbani, any understanding of Gurbani is good. What is not good is when those with a shallow understanding think they have a deep understanding and teach that to others as "the Truth."
animatedkhanda1

 

[anakhiput]

very rightly put as there is so much to learn and one can spend whole life doing that