Short-hair Ban On Gurudwara Marriages

[thecoopes]

Re: "Short-hair" Ban on Gurdwara Marriages

John,

In large part, I agree with you. However, the sticking point with me is that it is only the Amritdhari (baptized) Sikhs that have made the commitment to not cut their hair.

Plus, there are other sins - such as using alcohol - that are just as big.

A recent panthic website indicated that 85% of Sikh men in Panjab use alcohol.

Does that mean that only 15% of Panjabi Sikhs can get married in Gurdwara?

Cutting hair is also a bajjar kurehit...but I do not think that it should be an excuse to drown ourselves in krodh and hauma (anger and ego) over the matter. Instead, I think we need to wonder how we can inspire our brothers and sisters to return to the flock.

If we take no efforts...if we do nothing...if we cannot be inspiring...if we are unsuccessful at motivating...if we put it off...if we ignore it...if we don't feel like doing it...if we just don't like dealing with them...if we hate looking at them...if it's no use they won't listen anyway...if we shrug our shoulders and say we have no clue how to...

...if we produce zero results, then whose fault is that?


IT IS possible to motivate a Sikh to grow their hair again. And I can't think of a more powerful experience than to play a part in that happening.

However...it is an experience only available to those with enough courage to reach out to another.

Dear friend Amerikaur,



I have been pondering on your thoughts and would agree that if we as humans were only able to go to our places of worship and fellowship when we were unblemished then I’m afraid they would be empty for a long time.

It does become a very difficult area when we enter this arena of measuring each other by a rule book, so we have the spectre of one individual committing a certain wrong then comparing his wrong with some others that may be in their eyes a more grievous wrong. By this process we then can justify ourselves as not so bad and the individual sees it as ok to attend the Gurdwara, Church, or Mosque while feeling justified in condemning others who fail to measure up in different areas.

I suppose that’s why we need to instruct others not just in word but better in our conduct, while all the time watching that we don’t become sanctimonious expecting of others what we ourselves are unable to give.

In short the religious beliefs we have should mould us not in rules but in goodness, if you may allow me to quote from the Bible (which in itself does contain many rules and regulations that if we were to adhere to would make us almost robots.) The spirit of all those rules is summed up with this.

Romans: 13:9,10.. “The commandments do not commit adultery, do not commit murder, do not steal, do not desire what belongs to someone else” all these and any others besides are summed up in the one command, “to love your neighbour as you love yourself”. If you love someone you will never do them wrong, to love then is to obey the whole law.”



Matthew: 22:37 –40. “Love the Lord your god with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind”. This is the greatest and most important commandment. The second most important commandment is like it. “Love your neighbour as you love yourself.” The whole Law of Moses and the teachings of the prophets hang on these two commandments.



As you know you can’t legislate for someone to love, it’s not like a command such as do not steal which is just an act of do or do not.

Best wishes John

 

[jsingh45]

Re: "Short-hair" Ban on Gurdwara Marriages

my little remark here sorry if I may sound stupid... Sikhi is a beautifil religion initself because it is unlike Islam, not burderned by rules that tend to make a person go crazy, The Gurus teachings taught us so many things, among them that Whaeguru could care less who or what you look like when you are entering our temples, where is it written in our bani that a Guru ever turned a person away from the Darbar? Where in the Guru Granth Sahib is it written that a person with hair shorn may not marry in the presence of our blessed Guru Guru Granth Sahib? Brothers and sisters I think that Sikhi has fallen into a sad state when we as Sikhs choose to impose bans that people other than our Gurus have announced. Sikhi is about selflessness and Love not petty squabbling over issues about our mortal body that we will leave behing when we leave this Earth, Whaeguru loves the person, not the appearance, remember this before we ourselves fall into the fundamentalist pitfalls as other major religions, and begin banning non sikhs from the Harimandir Sahib....

 

[tamara]

Re: "Short-hair" Ban on Gurdwara Marriages

When Guru Gobind Singh established this community he was viewed as a revolutionary by many. His teachings shocked, amazed and angered the establishment. What! Women as equals? How! Can all men be brothers, equals, castless? Crazy! Wearing beards, growing hair, sporting shorts, standing strong and demanding the right to break with the past and live accoring to a new philosophy...was He mad? The 5Ks were a simple yet powerful way to unite a diverse population. Even the poorest of his followers could wear the external vestments of the Sikh. Sri Guru Gobind Singh, the General, understood the need of his people to readily recognize one another. He uniformed an Army to defend his people, unite his followers, and stand beside one another as equals. Is a soldier not a soldier when he takes off his uniform? This was not a man, who clung to the past. He recognized the benefit and necessity of change and growth. A man should not be measured by the length of his hair. Any one can wrap a length of cloth around his head, much of the male population of the Middle East does. Does this mean they are Sikh? How many religions have lost their heart and undermined the teachings of their saints and prophets while retaining their "Holy" relics, temples, statues, vestments and ceremony. Shall the Sikh, like the Catholics, spend fortunes on Churches, land and artwork while their followers die by the thousands of starvation and disease. Or like some followers of Islam, shall we confine our women to back rooms, shroud them in black and let them die of neglect so that they remain homebound? Or perhaps, should we rise up against our short haired brothers and bloody our sacred knives because they don't adhere to the "right" or "correct" interpretation of the holy book?
Would our General be proud of us as we spend hour upon hour, year upon year, arguing about hair, chairs, diet and clothing? Or would he prefer perhaps that we spend our time, energy and intellect making the world a better place. Would he not prefer that the world recognize a Sikh by the light in his eyes, the smile on his face, his gentle voice of reason and wisdom? Would he not prefer that the community say: Yes that is a Sikh! You can tell by the patience he has with his children, the affection he has for his wife, the concern he has for his neighbour, the honesty and fairness he displays in his work. When I look at the pictures of the guru's, I am not drawn to them by the clothing they wear. It is the kindness and strength in their faces, bearded and clean shaven, that makes me want to follow them. Just as it is the words on the pages within, not the appearance of the cover without, that leads me to read the Holy book.

 

[jsingh45]

Re: "Short-hair" Ban on Gurdwara Marriages

Brother Tamara your eloquent use of the words above moved me, wonderfully said, Peace be with you
-Fateh

 

[warriors_of_truth]

Hello all,

I think that the Gurudwara is for everyone, Sikhi is a hard path to walk on and we are all at different stages in becoming one with waheguru, who knows when the Guruji will grace us and make us lucky enough to take the amrit and sacrifice our heads? Therefore I think if somebody has love for sikhi, irrespective of what they look like physically they should be allowed to get married in a gurudwara as long as they look respectful.

Fateh

PS I love that quote 'if you cant see god in everyone you cant see god at all' beautiful

 

[Saajan]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji ki Fateh!!

Dear friends,
My apologies first as I am not a very religious person nor do I have much knowledge of Sikhi save that I listen to the preaching of learned scholars who speaks at congregations. I have been brought up as a sikh true to its code and was told never to question the instructions of Satguru.( Jo Gur kaheh Soi Pal Manio).

Look at whats going on in the Gurdwaras today. Gurdwaras have become clubs and entertainment joints. Worst still is during Anandh Karaaj ceremonies, you will see the monay spotting temporary beard and the moment the ceremony is over, the first place he heads to is the barbers shop. The whole anandh Karraj Ceremony is a joke nowadays. We treat Gurumaharaj as a toy with no respect at all. ( Logan Ram Khilonah Janah).

In the ardas we do....Sikha nu Sikhi Daan, Rehat Daaan , Kesh Daan.....look at what Guruji has given us as gifts..and yet one ceremony I attended the "mona" giani ommitted the "kesh daan" from the ardas.... Now I ask the veer ji who said that one day the Monays will be banned from the Golden Temple... You tell me veer ji...Where is Sikhi heading.... Why are we questioning Guru maharajs Hukam?.... We are blinded by Maya arent we? If one cannot accept Guruji hukam why insist on Anand Kaaraj ceremony? Isnt it better for you to just take it to the municipality and just get registered then to show disrespect for Guru Maharaj.

Dont blame the codes of sikhi being difficult and harsh. Remember what we are here for in this world. ( Phai Parapat Manokh dehhoriah, Gobind milan ki ehoh teri bahriah, .....rehraaas). If you have choosen to break away from the code, dont demand sympathy...its your choice. Sikhi is beautiful is you could only see it but the bollywood looks are much more tempting.



Bhool Chuk Maaf!!

"Sach hamesha Karwah hota hai"

 

[Arvind]

Saajan veer,
you have raised very valid questions for present sikh society. Keep on sharing the ways to amend too.
Regards.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji ki Fateh!!

Dear friends,
My apologies first as I am not a very religious person nor do I have much knowledge of Sikhi save that I listen to the preaching of learned scholars who speaks at congregations. I have been brought up as a sikh true to its code and was told never to question the instructions of Satguru.( Jo Gur kaheh Soi Pal Manio).

Look at whats going on in the Gurdwaras today. Gurdwaras have become clubs and entertainment joints. Worst still is during Anandh Karaaj ceremonies, you will see the monay spotting temporary beard and the moment the ceremony is over, the first place he heads to is the barbers shop. The whole anandh Karraj Ceremony is a joke nowadays. We treat Gurumaharaj as a toy with no respect at all. ( Logan Ram Khilonah Janah).

In the ardas we do....Sikha nu Sikhi Daan, Rehat Daaan , Kesh Daan.....look at what Guruji has given us as gifts..and yet one ceremony I attended the "mona" giani ommitted the "kesh daan" from the ardas.... Now I ask the veer ji who said that one day the Monays will be banned from the Golden Temple... You tell me veer ji...Where is Sikhi heading.... Why are we questioning Guru maharajs Hukam?.... We are blinded by Maya arent we? If one cannot accept Guruji hukam why insist on Anand Kaaraj ceremony? Isnt it better for you to just take it to the municipality and just get registered then to show disrespect for Guru Maharaj.

Dont blame the codes of sikhi being difficult and harsh. Remember what we are here for in this world. ( Phai Parapat Manokh dehhoriah, Gobind milan ki ehoh teri bahriah, .....rehraaas). If you have choosen to break away from the code, dont demand sympathy...its your choice. Sikhi is beautiful is you could only see it but the bollywood looks are much more tempting.



Bhool Chuk Maaf!!

"Sach hamesha Karwah hota hai"

This is the mail that sums it all up nicely. Sikhe is BOTH "inside"...peace, kindness, humility,sacrifice,everything good and nice...and "OUTSIDE" the roop that gives INSTANT RECOGNITION.

A Policeman without his Uniform that doesnt give him instant recognition as Arm of the Law can be "smiling, kind, humble...BUT all that is NOT ENOUGH. To be EFFECTIVE, HE must be Instantly recognisable as LAW. Thats the CODE and IF a policeman cannot and doesnt want to wear his uniform..HE will NOT be ACCEPTABLE in the Force anywhere...no ifs and no buts...WHY ?/ cant they recognsie that a person can be law abiding, kind, humble, good LAW ENFORCER without wearing a Uniform and being a member of the Police Force ?? Yet the Prisons have many "crooked" policemen ?? is that reason enough and then OK to have all our policemen remove their uniforms ?? WHat about all those millions of "crooks" who NEVER wore a Policeman's uniform ??

The "inside" part of SIKHE is easily a MILLION TIMES harder than outside sikhe..WHAT " effort" do we need to make our hair grow ?? ZERO...on the contrary ALL our EFFORT goes INTO REMOVING/CUTTING the hair.
Can anybody really stand up and say that CONTROLLING ONES Anger/Kaam/GREED/EGO..is way way EASIER than just letting your hair GROW ?? I would say HE is the GREATEST LIAR.

We have comments like "Amrtidharees" being great crooks, cheaters; liars, drunkards, womanisers.. THAT is PRECISELY MY POINT....these are the OUTSIDE SIKHS...who took the EASY WAY OUT....just let the hair grow, wear a kirpan, karra etc BUT FAILED MISERABLY to CONTROL their Kaam krodh, anger, greed, EGO !!! PROVES MY POINT. ( but they are still LESS than MONAS who do the SAME THINGS...Prisons world over are FULL of Monas for just these actions ...and DONT claim they are "good sikhs INSIDE" )

IF a "sikh" is so ENGROSSED into SIKHE/GURMAT and Follows GURU NANAK to the LETTER.... I think he will have no time to cut his hair, drink, womanise, he will have NO INCLINATION to do all thsoe things..HE will BE BUSY being KIND, HUMBLE, etc etc..and His OUTSIDE ROOP will be automatically that of GURU NANAK JI HIMSELF ( and there is NO RECORD that Guru ji cut his hair, shaved his legs, drunk wine, womanised, plucked his eyebrows or whatever that these "INSIDE SIKHE SIKHS" claim they want to do and yet remain SIKHS.

IF a SIKH can really and TRULY becoem a 100% ++ GENUINE SIKH of the NINE GURUS to Guru teg bahadur Ji.... then I can say with 100%++ CONVICTION that He will have NO HESITATION in dnning the OUTSIDE ROOP given by GURU GOBIND SINGH JI..because the OUTSIDE ROOP gives INSTANT RECOGNITION that here is a GENUINE SIKH of GURU NANAK JYOT...living his life EXCLUSIVELY as per GURBANI....24/7 into naam simran..

IN MALAYSIA we have been having a great issue with a MONA who is using his money/political connections etc to PROJECT HIMSELF as a SIKH LEADER. This man appears as SPOKESMAN of the SIKHS...but as a MONA...while the Prime Minister of Singapore, Lee Kuan Yew being a CHINESE appeared at all Sikh functions with a DASTAAR on his head. Every single Chinese or other race MINISTER attendign a SIKH FUNCTION...has worn a dastaar or Covered his /her head as a mark of RESPECT..even OUTSIDe a GURDWARA. Lately Pricne Charles of England, Queen Of England, PM of New Zealand , and various World Leaders have attended Sikh functions, gurdwara openigns etc ALL WORE DASTAARS/COVERED their HEADS....BUT "SIKHS" want to appear as MONA nangeh Sir..as they think that is their RIGHT and they have Sikhee inside ?? This is a load of pure BULL. A monah sikh can be as he likes..BUT NOT as a SIKH "LEADER".

Sach kaorra hota hai ji is correct. Apologies for any harsh language ( you see anger is indeed a BEAST hard to control !!!)

Jarnail Singh gyani Arshi

 

[murlikm]

I am Hindu by birth, but I try to follow the Sikhi way of life. If I am not mistaken, Sikhism is a way of life. A person who believes in the teachings of the Guru and who tries to follow them is a Sikh. I have harboured intentions of marrying in a Gurudwara. The ban on short-hair weddings goes against the teachings of the Gurus and the concept of embracing one and all. I strongly register my protest against this ban. If the ban does come into effect, then why limit it to weddings... ban the entry of true practsing Sikhs like us to the Gurudwara... ensuring that the religion does not grow. I am sad to state that the very reason why I chose to come under the folds of this religion i.e. pragmatism, non-myopic views and non-prejudicial outlook are under the scanner.

I urge all well meaning Sikhs to rise and lodge their protest against this diktat.

Murli:}--}:
Mumbai

 

[rooh]

Re: "Short-hair" Ban on Gurdwara Marriages

Whaeguru loves the person, not the appearance, remember this before we ourselves fall into the fundamentalist pitfalls as other major religions,

I quite agree. Why are we even having this discussion. Do our hair go with us after we die!! and account for karmas??? Guru's concern is with our soul, NOT WITH THE MORTAL FLESH.

Cannot believe the narrow-minded some people are>>>

 

[S|kH]

To the people that say its "Denying someone the ability to go to Gurdwara" :

We are not denying ANYONE entry to the Gurdwara, we are ONLY talking of marriage inside the Gurdwara. Everyone is allowed to enter the gurdwara in open arms, but there are a few things only certain individuals are allowed to do.

Guru Gobind did NOT select a monay to be a Khalsa, and there were MONAY in the crowds during 1699...was he biased? Never, and he let monay always enter the gurdwara, but before he had given them AMRIT, they had proven to him that they were capable of the deed, it was not just thrown around and given out to everyone. BUT, he never denied anyone to come to the gurdwara, its two completely different things.

Getting married in Gurdwara is making a commitment to be Sikhs and be united together and practice the Sikh way of life. Just like amrit is a commitment, there are some regulations, it can not and should not just be thrown around.

 

[S|kH]

Re: "Short-hair" Ban on Gurdwara Marriages

Whaeguru loves the person, not the appearance, remember this before we ourselves fall into the fundamentalist pitfalls as other major religions,

I quite agree. Why are we even having this discussion. Do our hair go with us after we die!! and account for karmas??? Guru's concern is with our soul, NOT WITH THE MORTAL FLESH.

Cannot believe the narrow-minded some people are>>>

Guru Nanak said not to worry about the after-life, that if you do well now, and your actions are pure, than why worry what will happen in the after-life? Only the fools whose commit atrocious actions and sin continuously have a need to worry.

I am not worried about what will "go with me to the after-life", if hair makes it or not. But live your life in the Guru's image, last I checked...Guru Nanak kept a long beard and hair...same all the way to Guru Gobind who asked all his Sikhs to become Khalsa and keep it.

As far as the other quote of "Waheguru loving the person and not the appearance" than I ask...why did Waheguru give us hair, if we were not meant to keep it? One can use that quote as an excuse for every thing...God loves me on the inside, not my actions. This is why Guru Gobind emphasized it so much that be pure in thought AND action. He cut out all the nonsense of "being so good inside" but "messing up, and doing bad things externally".

Yup, the act of shaving destroys the identity Guru Gobind created, the hair God gave us, and is mostly done to "look good/clean in todays society". But, its ok...God only looks at the inside :whisling:

For some reason, I always find that arguement equivalent to a girl who gets abused by her boyfriend, but remains with him because "he has a good heart".

Be pure in thought AND action.
Thought are your insides, your mind, your heart.
Actions are your outside, what you do with those thoughts, if you follow the Guru's word or not. They go hand in hand.

 

[CaramelChocolate]

Wow what a confusing issue we have here and I see both sides to it, but here are my two cents

Why have a SIKH marriage ceremony when you don't even practice or believe in Sikhism fully? Essentially marriage should be for amritdharis alone, if not then a Muslim, Hindu or even myself should be allowed to get married in the Gurudwara. There would be no way of distinguishing between a monay Sikh and a Muslim/Sikh/Athiest etc. etc. they are MANMUKH... and if they are so manmukh then why do they even care about marriage? social pressure? culture? I say to them, go get married in a Mandir!

 

[kds1980]

Wow what a confusing issue we have here and I see both sides to it, but here are my two cents

Why have a SIKH marriage ceremony when you don't even practice or believe in Sikhism fully? Essentially marriage should be for amritdharis alone, if not then a Muslim, Hindu or even myself should be allowed to get married in the Gurudwara. There would be no way of distinguishing between a monay Sikh and a Muslim/Sikh/Athiest etc. etc. they are MANMUKH... and if they are so manmukh then why do they even care about marriage? social pressure? culture? I say to them, go get married in a Mandir!

why mandir. is mandir a place for manmukh

 

[CaramelChocolate]

why mandir. is mandir a place for manmukh

Nope, I am just saying that hair cutting Sikhs are practically Hindu in my opinion.

 

[Lee]

Nope, I am just saying that hair cutting Sikhs are practically Hindu in my opinion.

That's harsh CC.

Questions for Cyber Sangat?

What are the 5 K's?
Why keep the 5 k's?
Who should keep the 5ks?

Are you more of a Sikh if you keep long hair but still drink beer in the pub, and I have seen these Sikhs, or if you cut your hair and wake up in the ambrosial hours to do your prayers?

Again, I'll say, and please correct me if I am wrong, but do you only HAVE to keep the 5 k's if you are Khalsa, and should all Sikhs strive to be Khalsa.

The rehat says that you are Sikh if you belive in the 10 Guru's and the Guru Granth Sahib.

The only thing that I can agree with your statement CC is that these people are bad Sikhs, but then I know a lot of Sikhs and only about two would I call Gursikh.

The ideal is to strive to be better, I'm a bad Sikh, your a bad Sikh, there are in fact lots of bad Sikhs around, the majority of us are manmukh, striveing not to be. So instead of calling Sikhs who can't or wont keep long hair Hindus why not understand that Sikhi is the hardest path.

We all stumble, and remember that it is only by the grace of God that we change. With that in mind who are you that you can say who is good and who is bad, who is Sikh, and who is not.

In my opinion hair cutting Sikhs are those that need Sangat more than most, not those that need to be turned away and derived by sangat, what sort of Sikhi is that?

Cheers,

Lee.

 

[rooh]

Re: "Short-hair" Ban on Gurdwara Marriages

But live your life in the Guru's image, last I checked...Guru Nanak kept a long beard and hair...same all the way to Guru Gobind who asked all his Sikhs to become Khalsa and keep it.


With due respect, since the beginning of time, Gurus have not just been confined to the Sikh faith, they have come in all guises and images. Saints / Gurus have been coming on this earth throughout the ages, they have had shorn hair, long hair, no hair etc, but their message has essentially been the same. We should attempt to imitate not their appearance, ie the physical, but their thoughts and actions towards others.

You see, for us it is very difficult to practice the message of the gurus and ascend to their level, so we bring them down to our level, and follow what is easiest for us, ie long hair or short hair etc. And we forget what they really represented, and argue about physical images. People go to Mandirs, mosques, gurdwaras daily, but that does not make them any better or give them right to judge others, or bar others for that matter. This should bring in them, a degree of humility and acceptance. A true Sikh is a very rare thing indeed.

 

[rooh]

Re: "Short-hair" Ban on Gurdwara Marriages

I ask...why did Waheguru give us hair, if we were not meant to keep it?

If one pursues this logic, then the Waheguru also bring us into this world with no clothes on, should we not also then keep this state???

 

[drkhalsa]

Re: "Short-hair" Ban on Gurdwara Marriages

I ask...why did Waheguru give us hair, if we were not meant to keep it?

If one pursues this logic, then the Waheguru also bring us into this world with no clothes on, should we not also then keep this state???[/quote

]

Dear Rooh Ji

This does not seems to me extension of the above logic
Hair is something that grows by itself you dont do any effort for that
while I understand that yu want to argue against keeping long hair but this is really not the right logic you are giving

By covering naked body you are not changing anything natural in your body but just covering your national body while you can do the same for hair if you dont want to show your hair you camn cover them ( while sikh already do that) now this parallel logic to what you said if we cover our body and offcourse we cover our hair too

Whilw other way around if I extend you r logic of naked body to the hair than ideally we should cut the body part we feel odd in our body as we cut our hair

Dont get me wrong I am just saying that ou are not using right logic and by all means you could be right but you have to give right logic

any way this topic has been disscused in lenght already on forum
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikhphilosophy/sikh-youth-today/1115-why-i-have-kesh.html?highlight=amarpal+sikhs+hair

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikhphilosophy/sikh-youth-today/938-kesh-kakaar.html?highlight=amarpal+sikhs+hair


Akal Sahai


Jatinedr Singh

 

[kds1980]

Nope, I am just saying that hair cutting Sikhs are practically Hindu in my opinion.

wjkk
wjkf

so according to you what are beef eating hindus or pork eating muslims
as these things are prohibited in their religion.