Sikhism : An Old Wine In - New Bottle

[ekmusafir_ajnabi]

Re: Sikhism : An old wine in -New Bottle

Lovely Silky,

If you have nothing to participate then please go back into your cage.
If you consider yourself to be wise then answer some of the allegations made above by Vinod.

What you read above has nothing to do with hankaar. If any of my comments are baseless and you can prove me wrong then come forth and enlighten me and others.

sachai chhup nahee saktee bnavat ke asoolon se
ke khushbu aa nahi sakti kabhi kagaz ke foolon se

The sachai we are facing is real. I am glad to see josh in you. Please come and enlighten us all. Show us your khushboo of the real flower. Show us your real sikhi.

Contribute positively with knowledge.

I am happy to be called a bad person if that awakens you people up.

Many thanks for your comments.

 

[ekmusafir_ajnabi]

Re: Sikhism : An old wine in -New Bottle

babboo2007,

Thanks for off the mark comments.

Do you have anything positive to contribute to this title. Perhaps you would like to share your views on the allegations above. We sit here in this forum and take the stick from other faiths. They come prepared and well versed with the knowledge of our religion. How prepared are you. Share your knowledge with us too.

Looking forward to some positive feedback from you.

 

[ekmusafir_ajnabi]

Re: Sikhism : An old wine in -New Bottle

Ajnabi ji,

thanks for the offer BUT MY ANSWER TO YOU IS A BIG NO. By any means I will never join those who are trying to encase Guru Ji's ETERNAL WISDOM in mere bottles and comparing it to wine :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: and saying Guru ji fermented it :}--}: :}--}: :}--}: . i will fight it in my own way, dont need your help.

I expected this from you.You call yourself GuruPyaara. Your need to broaden your vision. This is precisely the reason we are being slapped by other faiths. You know nothing about your own faith let alone about someone else's.

Yes you can do your Jakaares at the back of the crowd among the hypocrits in sikh religion. No wonder we are loosing our respect.

Thanks for your help you. I am sure god also exists in you in one form or the other.

 

[GuruPyaara]

Re: Sikhism : An old wine in -New Bottle

I expected this from you.You call yourself GuruPyaara. Your need to broaden your vision. This is precisely the reason we are being slapped by other faiths. You know nothing about your own faith let alone about someone else's.

Yes you can do your Jakaares at the back of the crowd among the hypocrits in sikh religion. No wonder we are loosing our respect.

Thanks for your help you. I am sure god also exists in you in one form or the other.

Thankyou very much for the comments Ajnabi ji, exactly the same I expected from you. To support your view on Encasing Guru Ji's Wisdom in bottles, and rating it old/new/fermented what else one can expect from you:rofl!!: . God is everywhere, isnt He. FORMLESS . i think Silky said it right- the truth seeps out from somewhere, how long one can hide it.

sachai chhup nahee saktee bnavat ke asoolon se
ke khushbu aa nahi sakti kabhi kagaz ke foolon se

Any murakh can understand Vinod ji's intent from all of his posts, but you claiming to be the best one around is saying that

I do not think Vinod has come to this forum with malice.

If one wants to answer him answer him, why should one blame others for not answering or answering less. I know what is right and wrong for me, have no need to learn from a person who supports anti sikh viewpoint and says-

You refer to Sikhism as “An old wine in a new bottle”. I am glad you used the word OLD. For arguments sake I will follow your line of thought. Indeed the wine was old and had lost its sparkle. It was not a product of / for this Yuga. It did not conform to the rules of this Yuga. It had gone stale and had lost its appeal. It had become a cause of suffocation for the general public by those in power (Brahmins). It was used as a tool to prey on the fears of the general public. But Guru Nanak FERMENTED it by adding the missing ingredient “Naam” and sprinkled the Divine Essence all over it and made it fit for the new Era. Now after all that hard work would you put it back into the same Dirty Old Bottle. No my brother it is indeed worthy of a New Bottle. The very Bottle and the Wine now Sparkles into the sore eyes of the old system.

Discrete answer: jutii vi marni hai par resham vich lapet ke. ha ha ha ha

 

[ekmusafir_ajnabi]

Re: Sikhism : An old wine in -New Bottle

GuruPyaara

Do not fight me. Fight the likes of Vinod who is insulting us all. Change your direction of fire.

I answered him back in line with his question. Look at it with a Broadmind. I too know the value of Gurus. I am sure also read "For arguments sake ....." in my reply. If not then read it again.

I have no intention of creating a scene in this forum I have had enough. Lets get together and fight the real enemy. If we start quarrelling with each other then they win the argument and we loose face. Is that what you want.

Do you agree with him on this:

Sikhs could not have their Guru's saved from the Hand of Muslims.How can they save themselves. Most of the affluent families have already starting running to Europe and USA and the poor sikhs are left in India to face the music of poverty.There is no sharing of wealth amongst the sikhs.I do not think that this religion will have any supporter on the earth after a few centuries and will die its own death because of

1.Dis respect of Guru's order. 5 ks' especially in Punjab most of the sikhs do not keep the hair.those left trim .
2.Wearing turban is a difficult task.
3.The youngs are disillusioned.
4.Most of them have even altered their names.
5.The sikhs who have migrated are not helping their indian relatives at all.
6.Sikhs have nothing to feel proud of the turbans and the beards.
The morale of the kids is down. Mere gurbani will make them faqeers.Is there any name who have ever obtained salvatiuion.None
Any takers

What is your reply ?.

And I will request Lovely_silky too, for a positive contribution as well.

This is not my fight alone. It is the Dharam of all Sikhs to defend themselves.

 

[GuruPyaara]

Re: Sikhism : An old wine in -New Bottle

Oh yes Ajnabi ji,

I answered him back in line with his question. Look at it with a Broadmind. I too know the value of Gurus. I am sure also read "For arguments sake ....." in my reply. If not then read it again.

This statement makes it totally clear that you are a some fake baba supporter or a fake baba , making all the effort to make me believe that YOU ARE RIGHT. No wonder Ajnabi ji you built your image first to be a very good person like a gyani under other poster threads and then suddenly popped up under this poster thread with your true intentions. Sweet coating afterwards is not going to bring any water in my mouth Ajnabi ji. With God's grace Iknow Ajnabi Ji how to read and think. I know how, where and when to reply and to whom. Thanks for the reply and THE sweet coating.

 

[Archived_member2]

Re: Sikhism : An old wine in -New Bottle

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
Dear all and Vinod Jee!

Oldest Hindu Scriptures are around five thousand years old. May I ask how old is Hindu religion and from where they learned to drink wine?
In my view, worldly religions are the veils. Like all wines are toxic, all religions are toxic too.
One realizes the true journey toward Truth when he transcends all veils.
Please do not try to convince Sikhs that Hindu Veil is better.
The true Guru guides all to ONE Truth, the thread uniting all.
Human beings weave a Veil out of the thread.

Should one criticize the other wine while he is drunk drinking it from a pitcher that looks different?


Balbir Singh

 

[ekmusafir_ajnabi]

Re: Sikhism : An old wine in -New Bottle

This statement makes it totally clear that you are a some fake baba supporter or a fake baba , making all the effort to make me believe that YOU ARE RIGHT. No wonder Ajnabi ji you built your image first to be a very good person like a gyani under other poster threads and then suddenly popped up under this poster thread with your true intentions. Sweet coating afterwards is not going to bring any water in my mouth Ajnabi ji. With God's grace Iknow Ajnabi Ji how to read and think. I know how, where and when to reply and to whom. Thanks for the reply and THE sweet coating.

Thank you very much for the display of your wisdom and my character assasination. After all you are a Doctorate of Phillosophy. Asking you politely for your comments on the aligations of Vinod in this forum constitutes that I am a fake baba supporter or a fake baba, I am sorry this is beyond me. What is in ones mind comes out. If you have any problems with my contribution on Gurbani then do not read it. Yes, I am Sikh of my Guru, "Guru Granth Sahib" and am blessed with many qualities. Unfortunately what is missing in you, I cannot add.

For your information my true intention was to create a good and intellegent conversation on issues that are affecting us. Vinod has pointed some genuine drawbacks in sikhism at present. If we do not collectively stand up to those issues and reply constructively then it means we accept it. If it means we have to talk in the same language that he has used and he understands then so be it. Well thank you very much for your contrubution. I have have no problem with you. Those that genuinely feel for sikhism will definitely ponder over Vinod's comments and reply back constructively and not pick petty arguments with fellow members.

Do not fight me. Fight the likes of Vinod who is insulting us all. Change your direction of fire.

Was there any difficulty in understanding that?

Many thanks once again. I do not feel it is in the benifit of this forum or to the visiting guests to exchange words again.

 

[Archived_member7]

Satsriakaal ji Saadh Sangat

Vinod...i have gone through yor posts ..and i feel there is more abt the hindu 'ism' that you should read instead of trying to show the Panth down...

Hindu is no 'ism' ..show me any of the texts the vedas ..smritis ..puran....any granth which has the word ' hindu ' ....i in fact would like you to find it for me ..i shall be grateful....

If u feel Guru Nanak Dev ji has give nothing new ...then u should be grateful...Babaji wanted people to stick to the same philosophy ...and not falter away...

The word Hindu denotes ..the geographical term ...Hindustan and Hindu ....it is the derivation from the word Sindhu ...and was mentioned by Persians...even in the Zend Avesta holy book of the Parsi Zoroastrians...there is reference ..the farsi could not pronounce sindhu..and changed it to ' H '

Savarkarji..if u have read or known about him ..defines Hindu as ..


<SPAN lang=EN-GB style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: verdana; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt"> Asindhu Sindhu Paryanta yashya Bharat Bhoomika,
Pitribhu Punya Bhuschaiva Sa vai Hindu Riti Smritah.[1]

Satsriakaal ji Saadh Sangat
Vinod...i have gone through yor posts ..and i feel there is more abt the hindu 'ism' that you should read instead of trying to show the Panth down...
Hindu is no 'ism' ..show me any of the texts the vedas ..smritis ..puran....any granth which has the word ' hindu ' ....i in fact would like you to find it for me ..i shall be grateful....

If u feel Guru Nanak Dev ji has give nothing new ...then u should be grateful...Babaji wanted people to stick to the same philosophy ...and not falter away...

The word Hindu denotes ..the geographical term ...Hindustan and Hindu ....it is the derivation from the word Sindhu ...and was mentioned by Persians...even in the Zend Avesta holy book of the Parsi Zoroastrians...there is reference ..the farsi could not pronounce sindhu..and changed it to ' H '
Savarkarji..if u have read or known about him ..defines Hindu as ..

Asindhu Sindhu Paryanta yashya Bharat Bhoomika,
Pitribhu Punya Bhuschaiva Sa vai Hindu Riti Smritah.[1]

There is a vast land between river Sindhu and Hind Mahasagar called Bharat and those who accept that this is their fatherland or / and a holy land, land of pilgrimage are all Hindu.
Thus Hindu has nothing to do with one set of beliefs or practices...
If u read and understand time when Guru Nanak Devji was born ..Islam was at its barberic heights ...people would follow religion with fear ...Superstitions and rituals not in the Dharam were practiced ..
The so called 'brahmins' self styled owners of Dharam were making people do just rituals sans Dharmic values or even the understanding why they were doing it ..reciting sanskrit sans the meaning ..people dint understand ..
When Guru Nanak Devji went to the river banks and asked why the pundits were offering water facing the Sun ..their reply was ..that the water would reach Him ...now the point is ..did they even know that offering water food was as a term of respect and surrender ...??????? They dint have apporpriate answers ...
The priestly class were being a nusiance since they made money out of rituals and wanted people to stick to it ...since they minted money ...
If you read the Vedas ..there is no stone worship....there is just Ik Omkaar...if u want ...u can even read the Mandukya Upanishad..or even listen to the cd ..sung by pundit Jasraj...
The idol worship began post Buddha times ..it was in vogue ..and thus ..art flourished ...but let me tell you here...the pran pratishta also came into being....
Vinod you should be thankful to all the 10 Gurus ..after the Panth martialised ...they fought islamic barbarians and have saved the ' HIndu ' ...their daughters and mothers and sisters ..my Tenth Master Guru Gobindsinghi Maharaj..asked his Father the Ninth Guru to be a representative of the Kashmiri Pundits who had come to seek help ...because Aurangzeb had banned the wearing of janeu...and if u are aware ..he use to order his generals ...that he would only eat if he had seen 10 manns of janeu..!!!! Guru Tegh Bahadurji Maharaj ...gave his life ...for the Pundits ...

Vinod ..you might even laugh at the phrase ...Sardarji Baara baje ...but if you know the reason ...i would say u shall be proud and will say...mere bhi baara bajenge...
Vinod ..those were times when the mughals would kidnap hindu women..and take them to their land ...at Punjab in the dead of the night ..they were swooped down by the brave Misls....the nihang army batallions ....who then respectfully sent the women back to where where they were frm ...!

Vinod ..Sikhi is the essence of Sanatan Dharam...the real Dharam ..and was established to make people realise that rituals wasnt just Dharam nor was idol worship....and to move out of the muharats and superstitions that had creeped in with changing times ...
Read Mira bai...read Kabirji....read the Bhagvad Gita....you will realise ...well if u feel there are criticizing stanzas in the Gurbani..they are for a purpose ...its for people as a wake up call,....Dharam is not abt keeping distance frm downtrodden people ...
I am the Das of the Das of the Gurus ...if this fool has spoken too much Bhul chuk Muaaf Karni ...
My intention is not to hate you..but to let u know ..The Panth stood by the country and the people of this country in the worst times ..

the verses of Sayyad Baba Bulleh Shah - Verses in praise of Guru Gobind Singh

"Na Kahun Abh Kee, Na Kahun Tab Kee, agar na hote Guru Gobind Singh, to sunnat hoti sab kee"

I talk about neither yesterday nor tomorrow;
I talk about today.
Had there been no Gobind Singh ,
All would be under Islamic sway.(circumcised)

Raaj Karega Khalsa

 

[lovely_silky]

Re: Sikhism : An old wine in -New Bottle

And I will request Lovely_silky too, for a positive contribution as well.

This is not my fight alone. It is the Dharam of all Sikhs to defend themselves.

oh te pehla meri negative sigi. tuhadi apni da ta jalus nikal gyaa.

 

[luv4u]

Re: Sikhism : An old wine in -New Bottle


Quoted from the Vinod ji's write up.



1.Dis respect of Guru's order. 5 ks' especially in Punjab most of the sikhs do not keep the hair.those left trim .
2.Wearing turban is a difficult task.
3.The youngs are disillusioned.
4.Most of them have even altered their names.
5.The sikhs who have migrated are not helping their indian relatives at all.
6.Sikhs have nothing to feel proud of the turbans and the beards.


These are the basic questions put forward by Vinod ji.

There are 29 posts and not even a single post has tried to answer the above.I ,as a sikh, cannot answer anyone of this and do admit thatyes we need a thorough introspection. The conditions in India for sikhs are no more congenial.One should be in fool's paradise to say that sikhs will be having their own nation.We must get the message clear that we have to do something to infuse something in the new generation with values that they feel proud of Sikhi.




I also do not think that anyone will make fun of these issues.I also note that Mr. Vinod has not visited this site to answer your queries.He may be disillusioned as to why we are not appreciating his view point.There is nothing wrong in admitting our weaknesses instead of pointing out the origin of 'Hindu' from 'Sindhu'. Hindu culture may be old and may be not. We have to keep our house in order and then look at the fire in the tail of others.

 

[lovely_silky]

Re: Sikhism : An old wine in -New Bottle

You are wrong, people have answered him, many times. Yes everybody is doing it in their own way. If you cannot answer, why are you blaming others, this is very funny. This person is again the same way as your other friend(only wants to read what he expects, not what others are telling him) whose post you were repeating in the other thread. Seems like have a lot of friends buddy.

You seem like very greatly concerned about your dear friends questions, why dont you yourself answer them. A friend in need is a friend indeed.

 

[luv4u]

Hi silky ji,
SSA.

Your post is nice.It asks me to answer .I have no answer and I accept this regarding the 6 issues raised by Mr. Vinod.Regarding similarities between religion there may be or may not be, I am not well versed with Neither sikhism or Hinduism,I am not sure.

The general concepts that seem to be of similar nature are as follows:

1.Concept Of soul.
2.Rebirth.
3.Theory Of Salvation.
4.Law oF cause and effect.
5.Ahm Brahm asmi [Omnipresence Of the God.in Sikhism.. ghat ghat ....all pervasive]
6.Grace of Lord.

You may kindly like to elaborate by stating the differences between the two.Mr. Vinod will stand answered once we point out the areas of non-convergence.,I hope you would be having a better theological knowledge and can discuss like 'cosmos' and concept of 'godhead'. I am not at all in the know of these things.Instead of checking me out you should think of replying to the question.

No one seems to be fighting pyaree ji. we are all facing a grim reality that is peeping right into our nose.

 

[simpy]

Re: Sikhism : An old wine in -New Bottle

Respected luv4u,

i know you considered me nosy in one of your recent posts under thread-Is It necessary to understand Entire bani? , but again i am humbly being nosy(aadat to majboor) must say something.


first of all, most welcome to the forum. hopefully you will enjoy and learn as well as share your knowledge with all.


THE WHOLE WEBSITE-SIKHPHILOSOPHY.NET is full of such concepts you are looking the information about


humbly asking for your forgiveness for being nosy

once again humbly asking for everybody's forgiveness

 

[luv4u]

Re: Sikhism : An old wine in -New Bottle

Hi Surinder ji
Thank you lady for welcoming me. It is reciprocal.

 

[luv4u]

Re: Sikhism : An old wine in -New Bottle

Hi... Everybody

Without agreeing or disagreeing to the statements of Vinod ji, I want to share with you some of the important statistics about Sikhs.It would be in the interest Of all those who are contributing to the thread related to the sikhism amd its resurrection or downfall.​

The Tribune, Chandigarh, India - Nation
​

Muslims register higher growth rate
6.1 pc decline in Sikh population
S. Satyanarayanan
Tribune News Service
New Delhi, September 6
[ Note : I have retained the info. related to the sikhs only. I do not think that it requires a deliberationas to how's and why's of this phenomenon.In one of the posts that I have read today, it has been mentioned that sikhs population is increasing. I think that we stand clarified that it is not so hence some remedial steps need to be taken if we are to contribute to the growth Of sikhi. ]

For the perusal Of all concerned OF all Sikh Veers and Sisters.

The first-ever ‘Census report on religion’ released by the Census Commission of India today showed a “high growth” of Muslims at 36 per cent during the decade 1991-2001 in sharp contrast to the 20.3 per cent growth rate of Hindu population during the same period. ​

The report, released by the Registrar General and Census Commissioner of India J.K. Bhantia in the presence of National Minorities Commission chairperson Tarlochan Singh here, showed a noticeable decline of Sikh population growth from 24.3 per cent in 1981-91 to only 18.2 per cent during 1991-2001.

In terms of growth of different religious communities, Hindus showed a decline over the previous decade, their population growing by 20.3 per cent during 1991 and 2001 as compared to 25.1 per cent during 1981-91. On the other hand, the Muslim population grew by 1.5 per cent to 36 per cent during 1991 to 2001 as compared to 34.5 per cent during 1981-91.

Out of the total population of 102.8 crore in the country as at the 2001 Census, the Hindus were 82.7 crore in number and constituted 80.5 per cent of the total population. The Muslim population stood at 13.8 crore comprising 13.4 per cent of the population.

The next in size are the Christians (2.4 crore), followed by Sikhs (1.9 crore), Buddhists (79 lakh), Jains (42 lakh) and those following ‘Other’ religions and persuasions including the tribal religions, etc (66 lakh).

--
The report points out that as regards the disparity of the absolute and relative number of male and female population in the society, expressed in terms of sex ratio or number of females per thousand males, the Sikhs (893) are far below the national average of 933.



The literacy rate among Hindus (65.1 per cent) was slightly better than the national average of (64.8 per cent) for all religious groups combined. Among Muslims the literacy rate is 59.1 per cent, below the national average.

The highest literacy rate is recorded among the Jains (94.1 per cent), followed by Christians (80.3 per cent), Buddhists (72.7 per cent) and Sikhs (69.4 per cent).
[ Sikhs at the lowest rung]
Among the Muslims the literacy rate among the females was returned as 50.1 per cent, below the national average of 53.7 per cent. Slightly better is the female literacy rate among the Hindus (53.2 per cent), again below the national average.
The highest literacy rate among the females was recorded among the Jains (90.6 per cent), like their male counterparts, followed by Christians (76.2 per cent), Sikhs (63.1 per cent)[ Sikhs almost at the bottom rung again] and Buddhists (61.7 per cent).

​

 

[luv4u]

Re: Sikhism : An old wine in -New Bottle

I am quoting below the content of the page that clearly tells the points of similarities and point Of differences between the two religions.http://www.sikhs.org/relig_h.htm


[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Sikhism Home Page: Sikhism and Other Religions[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Similarities[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Reincarnation[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Like Hinduism Sikhims believes in the transmigration of the soul. There are countless cycles of births and deaths. One only breaks this cycle when they achieve mukhti (merger with God) [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Karma[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Karma regulates the reincarnation and transmigration of the soul, Sikhism links Karma with the doctrine of Grace.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"Mortals obtain a human body as a result of good deeds but he reaches the gate ofsalvation with God's kind grace." (Guru Nanak, Japji)[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Maya[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The world is just an illusion and some get enchanted with this illusion and forget God[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Points Of Differences[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Sikhism rejects polytheism and accepts monotheism. Whereas Sikhism starts with one God and universalizes Him, Hinduism starts with many Gods and occasionally gives glimpses of 'One'. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"I do not accept Ganesha as important. I do not meditate on Krishna, neither on Vishnu. I do not hear them and do not recognize them. My love is with the Lotus feet of God. He is my protector, the Supreme Lord. I am dust of his Lotus feet." (Guru Gobind Singh, Krishna Avatar)[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Authority of the Vedas and the belief that the truth revealed in them is absolute and that reading them one can realize perfection.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"I have read all the Vedas, but my mind's separation from God is not removed and the five demons of my house (body) are stilled not even for an instant." (Guru Arjan Dev, Ashtpadis, pg. 687)[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]2.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Sikhism does not recognize any priestly class.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"Kabir, the Brahman may be the Guru of the world, but he is not the Guru of the saints. He rots to death in the perplexities of the four Vedas" (Bhagat Kabir, Salok, pg. 1377)[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]3.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Rejection of the Ashrama Dharma theory of dividing man's life into four stages. Instead the Gurus emphasized living the householders life. Rejection of the Varna distinction of division of human society into higher and lower castes.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"There are four castes of the literates, warriors, cultivators and menials and the four stages of life. He who meditates on the Lord is the most distinguished amongst men." (Guru Ram Das, Gond, pg. 861)[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"The Lord asks not mortals caste and birth, so find thou out the Lord's True Home (truth). That alone is man's caste and that his glory, as are the deeds which he does." (Guru Nanak, Parbhati, pg. 1330)[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]4.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Gurus rejected the Avtara theory of the incarnations of God. The Gurus not only exposed the mortality of these gods but used stories to illustrate moral values, such as 'pride leads to a fall' illustrated by the story of Harnakhash, untouchability becoming superior through devotion to God by Krishna stories and stories where Bhrahma, Vishnu and Shiva are shown to be ordinary mortals. The Gurus stressed that there is only one God and that these gods and goddeses were not true.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"In every age, the Lord creates the kings, who are sung of as His incarnations. Even they have not found His limits." (Guru Amar Das, Ashtpadis, pg. 423)[/FONT]



[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"Millions of incarnations of Vishnu and Shiv, with matted hair Desire Thee, O Kind Lord, with endless longing of their mind and body. Infinite and Inaccessible is Lord, the World Sustainer, and He is the Omnipresent wealthy Master. The gods, perfect persons, heavenly heralds and celestial singers contemplate on Thee. The greater gods and heavenly dancers utter Thine praises. Myrids of kings, gods and many super human beings remember the Lord and hail Him." (Guru Arjan Dev, Chhant, pg. 455)[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Worship of idols and images.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"The blind ignorant ones stray in doubt and so deluded, deluded they pluck flowers for worship. They worship the lifeless stones and adore tombs. Their service all goes in vain." (Guru Ram Das, Malar, pg. 1264)[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"They who say the stone is a god; in vain is their service. He who falls at the feet of the stone; vain goes his labour. My Lord ever speaks. The Lord gives gifts to all the living beings. The Lord is within, but the blind one knows not. Deluded by doubt, he is caught in a noose. The stone speaks not, nor gives anything. In vain are the ceremonies of the idolater, and fruitless his service." (Guru Arjan Dev, Bhairo, pg. 1160)[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]5.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Gita and Vedanta goal of a Mukt. Once he achieves salvation he does not live for the community. In Sikhism the Gurmukh achieving salvation lives to save others.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"Abandon lust, wrath, avarice and worldly love. Thus be rid of both birth and death. Distress and darkness shall depart from thy home, when, within thee, the Guru implants wisdom and lights the Divine lamp. He, who serves the Lord crosses the sea of life. Through the Guru, O slave Nanak, the entire world is saved." (Guru Arjan Dev, Gauri, pg. 241)[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]6.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Belief that reading of the six Shastras and their mastery will bring salvation.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"The greatly voluminous Simirtis and Shastras stretch out the extension of worldly love. The fools read them, but know not their Lord. Some rare one knows Him by the Guru's grace. Of Himself the Creator does and makes others do. By means of the True Bani, He implants truth within the mortal." (Guru Amar Das, Maru, pg. 1053)[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"Many Shashtras and many Simirtis have I seen and searched them all. Nanak, they equal not Lord God's invaluable Name." (Guru Arjan Dev, Gauri, pg. 265)[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]7.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Rejection of Sanskrit or any language as being sacred.[/FONT]

It is being posted as it is as it can be used for the reference purposes.

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Sikhism : An old wine in -New Bottle

luv4u ji

Thank you for taking the time and effort to post this essay. It explores an important theme very systematically, complete with references to SGGS and other sources. I have it bookmarked. This is so extremely valuable when trying to describe Sikhism to others and in the task of explaining why the notion that Sikhism is an offshoot or sect of any other Vedantic path is pure nonsense. You found material that really focuses on important lines of demarcation. You brought the main ideas al together in one place for us to read.

Once again, much gratitude :}{}{}:

 

[simpy]

Re: Sikhism : An old wine in -New Bottle

Vaho Vaho Bani Nirankaar Hai Tis Jevad Avar Na Koi​

Respected Sadh Sangat Ji,

Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 'Living Jot' App Akaal Purkh

"By means of the True Bani, He implants truth within the mortal." Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Amar Das Ji panna # 1053.

Dur ki Bani- Anmol Padarath

Bani Guru Guru Hai Bani


gur siqgur kw jo isKu AKwey su Blky auiT hir nwmu iDAwvY ]
audmu kry Blky prBwqI iesnwnu kry AMimRq sir nwvY ]
aupdyis gurU hir hir jpu jwpY siB iklivK pwp doK lih jwvY ]
iPir cVY idvsu gurbwxI gwvY bhidAw auTidAw hir nwmu iDAwvY ]
jo swis igrwis iDAwey myrw hir hir so gurisKu gurU min BwvY ]
ijs no dieAwlu hovY myrw suAwmI iqsu gurisK gurU aupdysu suxwvY ]
jnu nwnku DUiV mMgY iqsu gurisK kI jo Awip jpY Avrh nwmu jpwvY ]

Bani Nirankaar

Gurbani Kahe Sevak Jan Mane

Gurbani Gavo Bhai

gurbwxI iesu jg mih cwnxu krim vsY min Awey ]

hir ky sMq imlhu mnu dyvw jo gurbwxI muiK caudw jIau ]

siqgur kI bwxI siq srUpu hY gurbwxI bxIAY ]

ihrdY suix suix min AMimRqu BwieAw ]
gurbwxI hir AlKu lKwieAw ]

rUVo Twkur mwhro rUVI gurbwxI ]

hir jIau scw scu hY scI gurbwxI ]
siqgur qy scu pCwxIAY sic shij smwxI ]


gur AMimRq iBMnI dyhurI AMimRqu burky rwm rwjy ]
ijnw gurbwxI min BweIAw AMimRiq Cik Cky ]
gur quTY hir pwieAw cUky Dk Dky ]
hir jnu hir hir hoieAw nwnku hir ieky ]

gurbwxI suix mYlu gvwey ]
shjy hir nwmu mMin vswey ]

mY siqgur syqI iprhVI ikau gur ibnu jIvw mwau ]
mY gurbwxI AwDwru hY gurbwxI lwig rhwau ]




humbly asking for everybody's forgiveness.

GURBANI GAVO BHAI OUH SAFAL SADAA SUKHDAAEE​

 

[luv4u]

Re: Sikhism : An old wine in -New Bottle

Quote
"The Sikh community has survived wars with the Mughals and then the British, the terrible bloodbath of the Partition, and then 1984 and its aftermath.
But according to a recent New York Times article, what is really weakening the defining symbol of Sikh community in India is just… well, laziness:

Like many young Sikhs, he found the turban a bother. It got in the way when he took judo classes. Washing his long hair was time-consuming, as was the morning ritual of winding seven yards of cloth around his head. It was hot and uncomfortable.​

And:

The dwindling numbers of turban wearers reflects less a loss of spirituality than encroaching Westernization and the accelerating pace of Indian life, Jaswinder Singh said.

He puts the start of rapid decline at the mid-1990s, as India began liberalizing its economy, more people began traveling abroad and satellite television arrived in the villages of Punjab. Working mothers are too rushed to help their sons master the skill of wrapping a turban, he said, and increasingly they just shrug and let them cut their hair.

“Everyone is working harder to buy themselves bigger cars,” he said. “They don’t have time to teach their children about the Sikh heroes. Boys take film stars as their idols instead.” (link)​

Anecdotally, talking to cousins and other relatives, I’ve had the same impression: young Sikhs in India see the turban and beard as 1) hot and 2) unfashionable. It’s also interesting in this passage that busy working mothers are cited as part of the problem. (Quick poll for the Sikhs reading this: who taught you how to tie your pagri? Many Sikh men I know were taught by women in their families.)
Though she does have quotes from people who are unhappy about the phenomenon, I must confess that on an emotional level I do find Amelia Gentleman’s article a shade too cheery considering how much anxiety this trend causes amongst traditional Sikhs. Indeed, as the defining symbol of the Sikh tradition declines, it’s hard not to think of the core of the religion as declining as well.

Oddly, one of the factors named here — India’s hot climate — is less of a factor in places like the U.S., the U.K., and Canada. " unquote

The above article may be approached at :
http://www.sepiamutiny.com/sepia/archives/004289.html [cut paste]