Sikhism : An Old Wine In - New Bottle

[luv4u]

Re: Sikhism : An old wine in -New Bottle

Gurmat and Hinduism

Dr Kanwar Ranvir Singh​

As we have seen Gurmat is universal mystical revolution. Hinduism is hard to pin down but there are certain fundamental beliefs focusing around a national-political project which has been active in India since the Aryan invasion three and a half thousand years ago. But whereas the western Aryan belief systems such as the ancient Greek and Roman were changed by the influence of Judaism and Christianity, the eastern Aryans have not made this change, since the earlier attempts of Jainism and Buddhism were effectively marginalised in India, the land of their birth. There is also a gulf between sramanic beliefs of the indigenous Indians which were later taken over and interpreted by the Aryan priests the brahmins, and brahminism. Sramanic beliefs include devi (the Goddess), music and dance as symbolised by Shiva and Krishna, and the Guru-chela relationship implied in the Upanishads. The brahmin texts include the Rig Veda, Manu and other simritis, shatras, purans, tales of Ram (Ramayana) and Mahabharata. While the sramanic tradition deals with the dynamic tension of opposing forces in the universe (male and female, Guru and apprentice) which exist in the universe and within ourselves, the brahminical deals with social order as expressed in the caste system and the subjection and elimination of forces outside the brahminical social order which hope is expressed in the figure of Kalki, the final incarnation of Vishnu who is yet to come.
In contrast with Hindus, Sikhs do not accept animistic or polytheistic beliefs. Moreover, its monotheism does not contain any belief in avatars - that God incarnates as a man and dies. Its method of realisation, or soteriology, does not involve renunciation, but rather social transformation through living in reality and social responsibility, both within the inner family unit, the intermediate family (sangat) and humanity. The doctrine of Meeri-Peeri is that spiritual and social transformation are linked, which is why Sikhs do not believe in the caste system, and believe that women are equal to men. Moreover, Sikhs do not accept the Vedas, Ramayana, Gita, Purans or Laws of Manu but believe in Guru Granth Sahib Ji solely.
ONE GOD OR MANY?

A unique belief of the Sikhs is universal grace. It is that "God" saves everyone, whatever their race, religion, or sex. God is thought of in many ways, as Void, as Zero, as Person, Mother, Father, Lover, Friend, Nature, The Force, Amazing Grace (Wah-Guru) among others. People, however, must be willing to be saved and that means accepting the One as the True Religion. Clearly, this is different from worship of different gods and goddesses. Sikhs do not associate anyone with God. One God is Supreme. The Khalsa is that Sikh who "repeats day and night the name of That One whose Light is Unending, and who does not think of any except God...in whose heart the light of the Perfect One shines, that one is recognised as a complete member of the Khalsa." (First of Thirty-Three Swayyas) Sikhs worship the Creator, not any created.
The Hindus teach that there are 33 million gods and goddesses. There are some important ones, such as Indra - king of the gods, Vishnu - preserver, Brahma - creator, Shiva - destroyer. Moreover, some of these are sometimes associated with God, when they are regarded as avatars, or incarnations. Vishnu has many incarnations. Among these the most important are Rama and Krishna. However, two agnostics, the Jain founder, Mahavir and Lord Buddha are alleged incarnations, although this is obviously disputed by members of those religions. Some Hindus also regard Guru Gobind Singh as an incarnation. This seems difficult since the Guru wrote:
"Say if Krishan were the Ocean of Mercy, why should the hunter's arrow have struck him? If he can save other families, why did he destroy his own? Say why did he who called himself the eternal and the unconceived, enter into the womb of Devaki? Why did he who had no father or mother call Vasudev his father?" (33 Swayyas, no.14.) "Why call Shiv God and why speak of Brahma as God? God is not Ram Chander, Krishan, or Vishnu who you suppose to be lords of the world. Sukhdev, Parasar, and Vyas erred in abandoning the One God and worshipping many gods. All have set up false religions; I in every way believe that there is but One God. (33 Swayyas, no.15)
This fits with the teaching of the Guru Granth Sahib Ji where Saint Kabir writes: "Beings like Hanuman and Garuda, Indra and Brahma know not, O God Your attributes. The four Vedas, Simritis and Purans, Vishnu and Laksmi know them not. Says Kabir, whoever touches God's feet and seeks Divine shelter shall not wander in reincarnations." (Kabir, Raag Dhanasari). He also clarifies the use of Ram in Guru Granth Sahib Ji. "Kabir, call him Ram who is All-Present; we must make distinction between two 'Rams'. The One Ram is contained in All. Ram Chander is only contained in one thing, himself." (Kabir, Sloks). Ram as a name for God is used by the Sikhs, and as Sunnya (Void), Allah and others. But Ram as Ram Chander is only a created being. Sikhs worship only the One God, and do not associate God with any created being.
REVELATION OR MYSTERY?

The Gurus state that they are not saying anything themselves. Rather God is speaking through them and they are simply the instrument through which God, the True Guru, the Breath of Life blows. The melody of their lives is the result of God's play. "O holy God, by Your Favour it is not I who have been speaking: You have said all that has been said." (Guru Gobind Singh) The same claim is also made for the religious books of the Semitic religions - Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. All claim that God has sent their books, as do the Sikhs.
However, the various books of the Hindus have been written by different saints, such as Mahabharata by saint Vyas, the Purans, the Laws of Manu by Manu as their own inspiration, not as the Word of God. The Gita is claimed to be the word of Krishna. However, Krishna claims to be God, not a servant of God. These are called Simriti. The other Hindu writings are Sruti which are claimed to come from the gods, though they were not written down for centuries later. These include the Vedas, which tells us about medicine, the invasion of India by the Aryans and their religion - their main gods, Indra the king, Agni, the fire, and their important ritual, the sacrifice of horses. There is mention of the One in the Upanishads written a thousand years later. Mountain recluses, the rishis who kept uncut hair, wrote these. But they are the writings of the saints intoxicated with God, not the Word sent down by God which is what the Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Qu'ran and Bible claim to be.
The Guru Granth Sahib Ji is written in the common language of the people. It includes regional languages such as Bengali and Punjabi, the language of yogis Sanskriti, of Muslims Arabic and Persian, and also Brij Basha which was a lingua franca in northern South Asia in that time. All of these writings were set to music. Some like Raag Maru were favoured by the yogis, other raags by the Muslims, others by indigenous, tribal peoples and some were universal. In this way, God communicated to a whole range of people in their own languages and their own preferred music. The common people of many races, religions, and regions of South Asia and the Middle East could understand the message. The Hindu books were written in Sanskrit, the language of the gods, and only brahmins were allowed to study and interpret the scriptures. The Gurus got rid of the need for intermediaries.
DIRECT LINK OR INTERMEDIARY?

There is no intermediary between the human and God according to the Gurus, but the brahmins are the central feature of the Hindu religion. Without the brahmins there would not be any religion. The gods of the Hindus have changed - Vishnu and Brahma replaced Indra and Agni, and their rituals have changed - from horse sacrifices to vegetarianism under the influence of Buddhism. Their relevant holy books have changed, from the Vedas and Mann to the Mahabharata, Gita and Purans, and their attitudes to violence has changed, from hunters like Ram and Krishan whose dialogue, the Gita, is telling his friend Arjun to kill his relatives, to the non-violence of Gandhi. But the brahmin has been the constant of Hinduism, which is why Hinduism is sometimes termed as brahminism.
The fundamental belief of the Hindus is the role of the brahmin, for without the brahmin no ritual is complete. Not anyone can become a brahmin. One must be born a brahmin. But Kabir says, "In the womb there is neither family pride nor caste, all beings have been created from the Divine essence. Speak brahmin, when did brahmins originate?...How are you brahmins and we sudras? How were we made of mere blood and you of milk?" The status of the brahmin is fixed in the oldest Hindu scripture, the Rig-Veda. In the Purusa-Sukta, verse 12, we are told that the sacrifice of the first man led to "His mouth became the brahmin...and from his feet the sudras are born." In this shabad in the Guru Granth Sahib Ji Kabir is challenging the Hindu religious belief with the Sikh belief that all have come from One God and so all humanity is One. Guru Gobind Singh taught, “Recognise all humankind as One.”
The caste system is based on race. "Varnas" means colour. The top race is the brahmin, the second is the warrior - kashatri, then the skilled worker, unskilled worker, then the untouchables, dalits, who are the descendants of those conquered by the Aryans. Caste determined your profession, your position in society, whether you could worship - dalits were excluded from Hindu temples. The Gurus condemned caste as meaningless, and caste has played no part in Sikh history, religious or political.
WOMEN

According to the Gurus, God dwells in everyone as a fragrance in flower, reflection in a mirror, or fire in wood, so everyone is equal for all partake in God's society of love. Women and men are equal according to the Gurus. They can take part in all religious events as keertanees (hymn singers), granthis (looking after Guru Granth Sahib Ji), or in panj piyaras (in Khande-de-Pahul ceremony - initiation by Guru Khalsa Panth). They have their own names from birth till death - Kaur, meaning Princess. They do not use their father's name and husband's name which means that they belong to these men. If they have entered the Khalsa they should know self-defence and defence of the weak and helpless, if necessary, by use of the kirpan - sword of mercy - in the Sikh martial art - gatka. Sikhism is a feminist religion.
This differs from the Hindu legal scripture, the Code of Manu 5: 147-9. "By a girl, by a young woman, or even by an aged one, nothing must be done independently, even in her own house. In childhood a female must be subject to her father, in youth to her husband, when her lord (husband) is dead to her sons; a woman must never be independent. She must not seek to separate herself from her father, husband or sons; by leaving them she would make both her own and her husband's families contemptible."
TREATMENT OF DIFFERENT RELIGIONS

Hindu belief is that "It cannot be said that Sikhism, Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism are separate religions. All these four faiths and their offshoots are one. Hinduism is an ocean into which all the rivers run. It can absorb Islam and Christianity and all other religions and only then can it become the ocean." Mahatma Gandhi, (Collected Works, Vol. 90, p.177).
By way of contrast, the Sikhs prefer pluralism. Sikh belief is that "The Teacher of teachers is One, though manifesting in different ways. The Way, which praises the Name is the Way of ways. Follow that way which glorifies God. Pause and reflect. Just as seconds, minutes, hours, days, weeks and months are derived from One sun, as are the seasons, so, says Nanak, God is One but manifests in different religions." Guru Granth Sahib Ji, daily bedtime prayer)
The natural result of this pluralism is the Bhagat Bani, which is part of Guru Granth Sahib Ji. The bhagats were saints who lived before the Gurus, but who preached the way of the Name. From their own spiritual experiments they had found the limits of the beliefs, rituals, and disciplines of the various religions. Their conclusion was that Truth was most easily realised by looking for Divine Support which was open to any who looked for it whatever their race, religion, or sex. A person had to turn their focus away from "I" to "You". Instead of facing the ego, they should turn the face - "mukh" towards WaheGuru, from "munmukh" (facing ego) to "Gurmukh" (facing Grace). Thus, some of the bhagats were Muslims, Tantric Buddhists, etc. and some rejected all religious identities. The inclusion of the Bhagat Bani in the Sikh Scripture by the Gurus is the Sikh way of manifesting the transcendental unity of religions but also respect for the genuine differences of multiple religious traditions, the forms of the Formless.
http://www.sikhwomen.com/sikhism/gurmat_and_hinduism.htm

 

[luv4u]

Re: Sikhism : An old wine in -New Bottle

The following link also provides some useful information about Sikhism and may be referred to.

[xml-dev] Hate crimes against Sikh Community......

 

[Vikram singh]

Sikhism is an Adoption of Hinduism

I consider sikhism as an alteration and bady of Hindu religion with nothing original in it.It is a copy of the Hindu religion.
The following article has been taken from one of ongoing post.

Guru Nanak’s Doctrine of Divine Order[Dr. Dalvinder Singh Grewal*]​

* HM-210 Focal Point, Sukhdev Nagar, Ludhiana 141001.

Concepts of Divine Order (hukam) and Divine Grace (nadar) are the charasteristic contributions of Adi Granth. Hukam, a Persian term, meaning command or decree or direction, sanction or permission, occurs in Guru Nanak’s hymns in several different - but related - connotations such as Divine law, Divine Will, or Divine Pleasure (bhana, raza); Divine fiat (farman); Divine power or Divine creation (qudrat). Guru Nanak has used the word hukam for Divine constitution under which this universe and nature were created and developed and functioning. Guru Nanak declares in Japuji that “all forms, beings, great and small, the pain and pleasure, bounties and wanderings are indescribable and there is nothing outside the realm of hukam.” All the worlds, all the continents and all the beings of universe, are driven by God according to His will, and His pen flows to record their deeds. All the creation works under the Hukam or the Law of God. These laws are true for all times and work in all the three fields, i.e. physical, moral and spiritual. These laws bind all the creatures in the world.

Doctrine of Divine Grace: Divine Grace (nadar) is another characteristic concept of Guru Nanak. Meaning of Divine Grace are different in Guru Nanak’s hymns from its usage in Christian theology, where the stress is upon its universal nature and absolute sufficiency for salvation. In Guru Nanak’s hymns nadar is related to divine pleasure (raza) and somewhat close to “election”: of neo-Calvinist theology, except that it leaves no scope for individulal’s free will. It is through nadar (God’s Grace) that one secures the threshold of salvation (mukti). Though we get our body according to our karma, the release can only be obtained through the Grace of the Lord. The Grace of God begins with our acceptance of the True path in life. The amount of the Grace of the Lord necessitates our accomplishments on the right path. In fact, the Grace of the Lord is not the result of any whim of the Lord; it begins and matures with the beginning and maturity of our dharma.

Doctrine of Cause and Effect: The law of cause and effect works in every field. As per Newton’s Law, “Every action has equal and opposite reaction.” It is however different in Guru Nanak’s words. He says, “He is the Creator and the destroyer and He himself puts every one on various jobs.” He Himself is the doer and Himself the cause. Nothing happens without His order. A being performs His actions as per the directions of the Lord. A being gets birth into a form of life accroding to the karma of his previous life. He can improve his karma by doing good deeds. He loses the purpose of life if he is lost into maya and self-interest. He however can attain his purpose if he keeps off from maya and remains attached with the Lord. He can remain attached with the Lord by keeping his soul, mind and body tuned to Him through Naam which is the only way to attain salvation, i.e. to save one self from the cycle of births and deaths. Naam can be obtained from the Guru and a person can merge into Him by True Guru’s Grace.

Doctrine of Dharma (Ethical Conduct): The man’s final assessment and approval before God will depend entirely on his deeds. Activity is the keynote of Guru’s teachings. The real objective of a being is to reach the ultimate but it forgets its pass in the worldly evils and fails in attainment of the Lord. The prominent vices connected with the body are cruelty, theft and sexual hunger. The Gurus and saints believed in two kinds of actions, i.e. good or bad. The doer cannot escape from the effect of his deeds. While good deeds are fruitful, the bad actions get due punishments. The Charvaka hedonism has been rejected outright by the Guru. The virtue or righteousness exhibited through body, speech and mind is known as Dharma. In no religious system is the emphasis on ethical conduct greater than as laid down in the Adi Granth where ‘truthful living or conduct has been declared higher than Truth itself’. Sweetness and humility are the essence of all virtues. Life is most fruitful when we meet those who practice humility and gentleness even while they are strong. The virtuous deeds are the tree, God’s Name its branches, faith its flowers and the Divine knowledge its fruit. To achieve sublimity one should make truth his fasting, contentment his pilgrimage, cognition and meditation his ablution, compassion his deity and forgiveness his rosary. Very few have the right way their loin-cloth, consciousness their sacred enclosure, good deeds their frontal mark and the Lord’s love their food. He who eats what he earns through his earnest labour, and from his hand gives some in charity, alone knows the true way of life.

The Gurus ‘never forgot that there is only one God of all the beings’. For him none is born great, none is inferior to the other; the walls and prejudices created in society are only man made. He advocates the removal of all social barriers between man and man, and man and woman. He has totally rejected the division of varnas (castes) and Ashrams (stages of life) enjoined by Hindu Shashtras. He believes in universal brotherhood and propagates love amongst all beings.

My observations are as follows:

The doctrine of Grace of God and is part and parcel of almost all the religions on the earth.Law of Karma is an esential doctrine peculiar to HInduism.It has been copied by sikhs.Even the constitution of India does not recognise it as a separate religion.The sikhs is a closed sect living miles away from reality.They have never contributed to any of the economic activity, scientific activity and advancements.All that they do is to be a load on society.

There is no name of sikh in politics except in the regional politics of Punjab.Why so?It is only because the religion has become a burden on the individuals who cannot practice it.

In hindu's the class system originated way back Manu's days and had specific purpose and that suited that time.Each person of a society had some job to do.The system worked well.The philosphy had worked well.

The sikh guru's have quoited that Vedas should be rejected and all one should do is to remember Him all the time.If one follows this line of action this world will come to an end. Sikh religion in the end is a failure.

Let us look at the significance of keeping a beard.It looks horrible to see a sikh man when he is not clad properly.People avoid sikhs in India because of they look unclean and untidy .What ius the big significance of keeping the hairs that give them unkempt look.

Sikhs could not have their Guru's saved from the Hand of Muslims.How can they save themselves. Most of the affluent families have already starting running to Europe and USA and the poor sikhs are left in India to face the music of poverty.There is no sharing of wealth amongst the sikhs.I do not think that this religion will have any supporter on the earth after a few centuries and will die its own death because of

1.Dis respect of Guru's order. 5 ks' especially in Punjab most of the sikhs do not keep the hair.those left trim .
2.Wearing turban is a difficult task.
3.The youngs are disillusioned.
4.Most of them have even altered their names.
5.The sikhs who have migrated are not helping their indian relatives at all.
6.Sikhs have nothing to feel proud of the turbans and the beards.
The morale of the kids is down.Mere gurbani will make them faqeers.Is there any name who have ever obtained salvatiuion.None
Any takers

Vinod jeee

It is very intersting that you have very little Knowledge of Sikhism, I will give you lot of Sikhism Knowlege,but before i get down to it,i want to tell you about or infact you can help me put some light on Hinduism, some question i want to ask you

Hindu always criticize,condemn and mock at other religion,their criticism and mocking is unreasonable and unacceptable.
In his autobiography Dr. Charles an American scholar says that it is very simple to define a Hindu.,he says a Hindu means " one who believe in anything and everything it said in the name of God and shall never question its authenticity.

The Hindu claims that lord Rama is incarnated (came in human form) to study and understand the difficulties of mankind.Its is really necessary for a God to incarnate Himself ??
Can he not understand the creations,why should God become a donkey or a {censored}roach in order to understand the suffering of these creations,
LORD RAMA

Lord Rama is the central character to the Epic RAMAYAN (whose author was Valmiki) Rama is the son of Dasharath, the king of Banaras. Dasharath had three wives, kaushalya, kaikeyi and Smitra besides several hundreds concubines.

According to the Ramayana, Rama spent most of his life trying to save his wife, Sita from the clutches of Ravan At the same time Rama was enjoying life to the full at every opportunity

12 YEARS FOR RAMA, BUT ONE DAY TO RAVAN

To retrieve his wife from Devil Ravan, god Rama sought the help of Hanuman, a monkey god. Hanuman agreed to help Rama bring his wife back on condition that god Rama in turn help him (Hanuman) to kill his twin brother prior to undertaking the mission.

I took more than twelve years for Hanuman to build a bridge and accomplish the task while Ravan just took Sita and flew to Sri lanka in just one day's time Where is the bridge that Rama built?? Who is more powerful - God Rama or Devil Ravan ? Would a god seek the help of another god to murder a third god?

If Hanuman could fly carrying big mountains, he should have in the first instance carried and flown god Rama to Sri Lanka, which would have resulted in early rescue of Sita.
Who knows what Ravan might have done to Sita during this period of twelve years? Definitely a devil would have done only "devilish" things!
Before helping god Rama, Hanuman made Rama shoot his own twin brother in the back and only then did Hanuman help god Rama How can a "god" indulge in such a criminal act for personal gain?


There Is Lot More To Come,i Have A Lot Of Knowledge Of Hinduism, I Will Put Thousand And Thousand Question, Either You Will Understand Hinduism,or You Will Become Sikh

RAMA'S MANY WIVES
Mr. C.R. Sreenivasa lyengar's translation of Valmiki Ramayana says: " Though Rama had married Sita to be the queen, he married many other wives for sexual pleasure in accordance with the royal customs. (Ayodha Kandam 8th Chapter, page 28). (The term "Rama's wives" as been used in many places in Ramayan).

RAMA'S CONTEMPT FOR WOMEN & LOW CASTES

Rama disfigured and mutilated many women by cutting off her noses, breasts, ears etc., and tortured them (Soorpanaki, Ayomuki).

Rama said, "Women should not be trusted" and that "Secrets should not be confided to the wife" (Ayodhya kandam, Chapter 100).

Sambuka was slain (by Rama) because he was making penance which was forbidden to hime by Vedas as he was a "Shudra" (Uttara kanadam, Chapter 76).

Looking at is hand Rama said the Sanskirt slogan "O right hand, you kill this Asche Shudra unhesitatingly as killing this Shudra is the only way to get back the life of the deceased Brahmin boy."

Are you not one of the limbs of Rama? (Valmiki Ramayana)
Note: This Rama, who mercilessly took away the life of Sambuka for no other fault than that of making penance, is held as the Avatar (incarnation) of Vishnu (God)! If there were kings like Rama alive now, alas! what would be the plight of those who are called "Shudras?".

 

[venod]

Re: Sikhism : An old wine in -New Bottle

Respected Vikram ji,

My previous account is blocked by the web and I have no intention to hurt the feelings Of my friends. If you like to have a discussion please state that you shall like to discuss. I am the last one to trouble you people.

Regards

 

[venod]

Re: Sikhism : An old wine in -New Bottle

I do not want to attack anyone or any Guru ji. I want to disuss religion -sprituality with a sharp focus on Granth Sahib, Gita , Sikhi and other concepts including the revival and resurrection Of sikhi for this religion is totally misunderstood by the westerners.

Your religion Discard GITA, that is the root book on soul/karma/ conscience and consciousness and many other things that we share in common in sikhi as well. For the kind information I am giving below the quotes of some of the philosphers. It is book on philosphy and not of any theological interpretations.Why SGPC has rejected it is not known to me. But studying anything will do no harm. Kindly enjoy the followings Mr. Vikram ji.[ Do participate if you can maintain the cool. I do not want to befriend anyone.

Guru ji has said.:

"Naal Eanei dosti Kadi na Aani Raas"

Namaskaram.

Some quotes from famous personalities across the world:


Albert Einstein "When I read the Bhagavad-Gita and reflect about how God created this universe everything else seems so superfluous."

Aldous Huxley "The Bhagavad-Gita is the most systematic statement of spiritual evolution of endowing value to mankind. It is one of the most clear and comprehensive summaries of perennial philosophy ever revealed; hence its enduring value is subject not only to India but to all of humanity."

Mahatma Gandhi "When doubts haunt me, when disappointments stare me in the face, and I see not one ray of hope on the horizon, I turn to Bhagavad-gita and find a verse to comfort me; and I immediately begin to smile in the midst of overwhelming sorrow. Those who meditate on the Gita will derive fresh joy and new meanings from it every day." Henry David Thoreau "In the morning I bathe my intellect in the stupendous and cosmogonal philosophy of the Bhagavad-gita, in comparison with which our modern world and its literature seem puny and trivial."

Dr. Albert Schweitzer "The Bhagavad-Gita has a profound influence on the spirit of mankind by its devotion to God which is manifested by actions."

Carl Jung "The idea that man is like unto an inverted tree seems to have been current in by gone ages. The link with Vedic conceptions is provided by Plato in his Timaeus in which it states 'behold we are not an earthly but a heavenly plant.' This correlation can be discerned by what Krishna expresses in chapter 15 of Bhagavad-Gita."

Herman Hesse "The marvel of the Bhagavad-Gita is its truly beautiful revelation of life's wisdom which enables philosophy to blossom into religion."


Ralph Waldo Emerson "I owed a magnificent day to the Bhagavad-gita. It was the first of books; it was as if an empire spoke to us, nothing small or unworthy, but large, serene, consistent, the voice of an old intelligence which in another age and climate had pondered and thus disposed of the same questions which exercise us."

 

[simpy]

Re: Sikhism : An old wine in -New Bottle

Respected Saadh Sangat ji,

Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Angad Dev Ji De Bachan-



nwil ieAwxy dosqI kdy n AwvY rwis ]
jyhw jwxY qyho vrqY vyKhu ko inrjwis ]
vsqU AMdir vsqu smwvY dUjI hovY pwis ]
swihb syqI hukmu n clY khI bxY Ardwis ]
kUiV kmwxY kUVo hovY nwnk isPiq ivgwis ]


As long as one practice all the falsehood and keep comparing and degrading others........ what can one find in return-THE SAME...................And then it feels odd, isn't it. The evaluation done by others hurts and then the nindak seeks support of only those who are of the same thought. Everybody else bothers such a fool. And Dhan Dhan Guru Sahib says about the friendship of the nindaks-

lwlc JUT ibkwr moh ieAw sMpY mn mwih ]
lµpt cor inMdk mhw iqnhU sMig ibhwie ]

As only these kind will support such thoughts :hmm:

Can only pray for such fools Waheguru eho jehan nu sumat bakhshe.

AvKD sBy kIiqAnu inMdk kw dwrU nwih ]
Awip Bulwey nwnkw pic pic jonI pwih ]
let us pray for SARBAT DA BHALAA


humbly asking for everybody's forgiveness

 

[Harjap Khalsa]

Re: Sikhism : An old wine in -New Bottle

Every Scripture is supposed to turn the inverted heart-lotus upright. Vinod/Venod ji, just praises from other authors are not of any use if you are not following the truth depicted by the scripture, doesn’t matter it is Gita or any other one. Ambrosial Nectar is trickling down within every body- only purity can feel it, and purity comes in by following the pure word not by criticizing and demeaning the followers of purity or the pure itself(irrespective of the form).

Everybody goes to that house where he has faith, no other place can satisfy him. You can wander in all ten directions for ever- without faith there is nothing and faith can never be explained. It is a bessing, not a stolen commodity.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Re: Sikhism : An old wine in -New Bottle

Vinod/Venod..... ji

Can you please enlighten me on the following:-

1.Who wrote Gita?

2.Was it written by one person, many or 'God'?

3.When was it written?

4.How long did it take to put it together?

5.What was the reason and need behind the writings of Gita?

6.Talking about good family values, would you allow your own mother and/or sister to become Gopis and have fun with Krishan ji if he were still alive today?

7.Are Judaism, Christanity and Islam the same one religion or 3 different religions and what's their origin?

Only after you respond the above we can lay the foundation of discussing this topic regarding Sikhi, which by the way is not a religion but a way of life of which we can interact about later.

Thanks

Tejwant

 

[tarlochan singh]

Re: Sikhism : An old wine in -New Bottle

DEAR VINOD JI
WAHE GURU JI KA KHALSA
WAHE GURU JI KI FATHE

COULD YOU PLEASE ENLIGHTEN ME AS TO:
1. IS HINDUISM A RELEGION, IF SO HOW IS IT DEFINED.
2. WHAT ARE THE VEDAS.
3. CAN YOU OR OTHER HINDUS REALY BELEIVE THE MYTHOLOGY OF VEDS,
PURANS, SIMRTI'S.
4.WHY DO THE HINDUS FEEL THREATEND BY SIKHS/SIKHISM.
WHY SO MUCH HATRED FOR THE PEOPLE WHO OVER THE LAST FIVE HUNDRED SAVED THE HINDU RELEGION OVER AND OVER.
I AM SURE YOU KNOW THE HISTORY MORE THAN ME, WHY WAS IT POSSIBLE FOR A FEW THOUSAND SIKHS TO ERADICATE THE PROBLEM, WHICH HAD DOGGED INDIA FOR 700 YEARS,AS YOU MAY WELL KNOW THAT THE HINDUS COULD NOT EVEN PROTECT THEIR OWN WOMEN LET ALONE LOOK AFTER THE TEMPLE(BABARI MASJID,SOMNATH). I WONDER WHY THE HINDUS DIDN'T FORGET THAT.
GURU JI RIGHTLY SAID YOU CANNOT BEFRIEND A SNAKE NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU FEED IT MILK.
MADH VICH RIDA PAI KE KUUTE DA MAAS,
TARIA MANAAS KHOOPRI TIS MANDI VAAS
RAET PARIAA KAPDAA KAR KAJAN TAAS
TAK LE CHALI CHURRI KAR BHOG BILAAS
AKHE SUNIE PUCHIA LAAHE VISHVAAS
NADRI PAVE AKIRTKAAN MAAT HOE VENAAS.

PLEASE DON'T BE OFFENDED
NA KO VARRI
NAHII BEGANA

TARLOCHAN.

 

[pritpal_singh]

Re: Sikhism : An old wine in -New Bottle

HOW ARE YOU KEEPING SO MUCH VENOM AND HATRED INSIDE YOU. LET GO OF IT AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE OR IT SHALL TAKE YOUR LIFE.

1) REGARDING YOUR POINT OF THE INACTIVITY OF THE SIKHS AND THEY BEING A LOAD TO SOCIETY :- MY DEAR FRIEND, HOW COULD YOU BE SO FOOLISH ENOGH TO EXPRESS YOUR LACK OF KNOWLEDGE ON SUCH AN OPEN FORUM. IF YOU HAVE THE MIND FOR IT, GO AND STUDY THE HISTORY OF INDIA AND HOW THROUGH THE GREEN REVOLUTION PUNJAB HAS UPLIFTED THE INDIAN ECONOMY ON THE INTERNATIONAL MARKET.

2) IF REMEMBERING THE SUPREME GOD IS A WASTE OF TIME, THEN I PITY YOU MR. VINOD WHO IS SO DETACHED FROM HIS CREATOR THAT YOU CAN’T FIND THE TIME TO THANK AND REMEMBER THE ONE WHO CREATED YOU AND PROVIDED YOU WITH ALL THAT YOU HAVE. I HOPE YOU BELIEVE THAT YOU WERE INDEED CREATED BY GOD AND THAT YOU DIDI NOT CREATE YOURSELF, BECAUSE THAT SORT OF HAUGTINESS IS REFLECTED IN YOUR THOUGHTS. AND FOR YOUR KIND INFORMATION THIS WORLD AND EVERYTHING IN IT WILL INDEED COME TO AN END, DON’T WORRY ABOUT IT BECAUSE IT IS THE SUPREME TRUTH. THE ONE WHO CREATED IT SHALL DESTROY IT.

3) ABOUT THE BEARD MR. VINOD, I HOPE YOU HAVE THE GENERAL KNOWLEDGE TO KNOW THAT ALL THE MALES OF ALL THE SPECIES INHABITING THIS PLANET HAVE BEEN ADORNED WITH MORE BEAUTY AND PERSONALITY THAN THE FEMALE. LOOK AT THE BEARDED LION, THE KING OF THE JUNGLE. DOESN’T HE LOOK IMPOSING. THE LIONESS DOES NOT STAND A CHANCE IN FRONT OF HIM. IT WOULD NOT BE WRONG TO SAY THAT WITHOUT BEARDS ALL MEN RESEMBLE WOMEN.

4) OUR GURUS COULD NOT BE SAVED BECAUSE THEY DID NOT WANT TO BE SAVED. THEY WERE MATRYRS WHO SACRIFICE THEIR LIVES FOR THEIR BELIEFS. IF YOU MR. VINOD HAVE TO GUTS FOR SACRIFICE, TRY SENDING YOUR SON TO THE ARMED FORCES.

ACTUALLY I THINK YOU ARE A DISILLUSIONED SIKH, TRYING TO COMMIT HARAKIRI. DON’T DESPISE OTHERS OR ELSE YOU SHALL HAVE TO BEAR THE BURDEN OF THIS SIN FOR I DON’T KNOW HOW MANY MORE LIVES, BECAUSE OUR BANI SAYS THAT THE ONE WHO DESPISES OTHERS RECIEVE S NO RESPECT IN THIS WORLD AS WELL AS THE WORLD HE SHALL BE TRANSCENDED TO AFTER DEATH.
MY DEAR FRIEND CALM DOWN AND TRY TO STUDY SIKHISM DEEPLY. IT IS THE MOST SIMPLE AND UNSOPHISTICATED RELIGION ON THIS PLANET. IT’S CONCEPT OF KIRT KARNA (EARNING FROM EARNEST LABOUR AND NOT BY CHEATING), VAND-SHAKNA (SHARING YOUR EARNING WITH THE NEEDY) AND NAAM-JAPNA (FOR SPIRITUAL UPLIFTING) IS THE MOST SCIENTIFIC CONCEPT. WE FEEL PROUD AND LUCKY TO BE BLESSED FROM BIRTH WITH SUCH BELIEFS.

 

[Amarpal]

Re: Sikhism : An old wine in -New Bottle

Dear Khalsa Ji,

Sikh religion is not an adaptation of Hindu religion.

There is some beliefs that are common between these two religions viz Laws of Karma, rebirth which incorporates the concept of Atman. This is in fact common toall the religions that sprung in India including Buddhism and Jainism.

This way Sikh religion is part of Bharatiya Culture but as I have said earlier is not part of Hindu religion.

Sikh religion des not recognizes Varna-Ashram that is the basic aspect of Hindu religion.

Sikhism conceptualizes God as formless, timeless and does not take birth. Hindu religion does not conceptualize. Siri Bhagvatam gives the age and the life span of current Brahma, In Bhagwat Gita Siri Krishna says that he created Varna-Ashrams. Hindu Gods take birth and Die, they are called incarnations. We in Sikh religion have Gurus; none of them said that they are Gods.

Sikh religion believes in one God but Hindu religion has multiplicity in Gods.

I can go on telling much more why Sikh religion is a separate independent religion, but I think it is not necessary to do so here.

With love and respect for all.

Amarpal Singh

 

[japjisahib04]

Re: Sikhism : An old wine in -New Bottle

MY DEAR FRIEND CALM DOWN AND TRY TO STUDY SIKHISM DEEPLY. IT IS THE MOST SIMPLE AND UNSOPHISTICATED RELIGION ON THIS PLANET. IT’S CONCEPT OF KIRT KARNA (EARNING FROM EARNEST LABOUR AND NOT BY CHEATING), VAND-SHAKNA (SHARING YOUR EARNING WITH THE NEEDY) AND NAAM-JAPNA (FOR SPIRITUAL UPLIFTING) IS THE MOST SCIENTIFIC CONCEPT. WE FEEL PROUD AND LUCKY TO BE BLESSED FROM BIRTH WITH SUCH BELIEFS.
Permit me to complete kirt karna (earning from earnest labour and not by cheating). It actually means earning from earnest labour and not by cheating like invoking powers of deities (jadu tuna) through havan in order to take what rightfully belongs to other, cheat, and mesmerize and earn through illegal means.
Regards Sahni Mohinder

 

[venod]

Re: Sikhism : An old wine in -New Bottle







I acknowledge with thanks and humility the posts, of S.Vikram ji, Harjap ji, S. Pritpal ji, Vahe Guruseeker ji , S. Amar pal ji and Japji Sahib004 ji with thanks as these all illuminating in their own way. I am in my own way putting forth the practices of Hinduism for your benefit. I shall also enclose here with a fact sheet from the site or provide a link address of some site that would present you with an objective knowledge of Hinduism and faith and belief.

The main differences in the two religions, as has been stated, appears to be Varn- ashram and the form of God that is stated to be form-less. These are also called as Incarnations . We can discuss the concepts of the Kirat karna, meditation and ‘Vand ke Chakna’. It is my duty to get you acquainted with the conceptual framework . I have understood that you want to convey. These are the teachings for a sikh. But I do not know to what extent these are practiced , anyway , you may go thru. the following.


Varan Ashram


Varan Ashrams , would mean that 'Manu' had divided the society in four kinds of people like 1.Brahmin/pandit, 2.Kshatriya 3. Vaishya and 4. Shudras/ Low- caste. There were reasons when this demarcation was done for the smooth sail of society. The system had worked very well over the centuries but over a long passage of time it was institutionalized as a caste system and did harm the Shudras who over a period of time were known to be untouchables. These people have been recognized and Indian Government has passed special and specific legislations from time to time for the improvement of the lot by enacting laws for scheduled caste and schedules tribes and other backward classes. Efforts and being taken .It will take some time that the equilibrium would be restored and there would be equi-distribution of the income. In any case it is more of a socio-economic problem and is addressed by those concerned. Nothing in the religion should be anachronistic else it will not find the subscriber to the theory. It is concluded that there were system whereby society was classified into groups the purpose of which was to permit the smooth running of the society. It was a social arrangement that the society was divided. It was based on division of labor and the economic theory of ‘relative disadvantages’. However, there ae no classifications. Globalisation has taken roots in this country as well. Religion for Hindus, have taken a back seat for quite sometime. I do repeat that we do not visit temple just for the sake of visiting .This used to be the case about 2/3 decades earlier. The method of worship is simplified. About 80 /90 percent of the Hindus do not worship Dieties except on occasion like Deepawali or Janashtami. Diety worship is limited to temples only. Only those who have the time do visit. It is not mandatory for a Hindu to visit a temple. I do not remember when I have visited temple last with my familty. I have no diety installed in my house. Yes, we keep Dhoop/ Agarbatti for the evening as it has a positive affect when we offer our prayers in our fashion. Some time we chant in the evening:

‘Om Jai Jagdish Hare…Swami Jai Jagdish Hare……”
[ It can be a sort of ‘shabad keertan of sikhs]

Things are changing fast. The opening up of economy has offered new challenges and opportunities as well. One need not go to USA. A professor in MBA institute of engineering Institute can now make about a million Rs per annum.
Naam

For most of us Om is a 'naam'


Multiplicity Of Gods


Regarding form of the Gods, it is to be appreciated that it is within the over all Monoeteism that there is one universal supreme soul that the polyetheism format of the Godhead theology took place. There are many demi-God or Demi-Goddesses . People started worshipping the type of the attribute or the particular attribute that was so essential for them that they named that attribute. In some cases where women had to fight men against injustice, one started praying the Kali or Ma Vaishno Devi and so the demi god and goddesses took birth. The diety concept is also based on this account that one has to differentiate one’s G from another G and hence one thought of sculpturing the God.

Another important dimension to the Diety is that it was easy for one to conceptualise the presence of the Divine as one could see. There is no other purpose. There are some ritualistic worships on the occasion of birth/naming ceremony/entering a new house/ Marriage and allied. I hope you must be having some of these as per your faith.
It was convenient and that is how the society grew over a passage of time. It is how a faith travels over a time that certain aberrations start appearing and become as protuberances.
There are certain distortions that keep on creeping in any institutions till they raise their black head with such a potency that it takes the form of an evil that, if uncontrolled, goes out of control. It was this evil that Guru Nanak observed and did not include in the religion. But then all the religions have their plus and minus points.


One universal Soul / God


Hindus do believe that there is one universal soul [Parmatman] and the rest of the souls [Atman] are also as eternal as the universal soul as Sikhs do believe. The three attributes of God, creator/ sustainer and destructor are represented by Three gods called Braham, Vishnu and Shiva. Gurbani do sustain/states this. We call that one Great as Brahman or some do prefer it as Brahma. The concept Of one universal soul is as old as the religion. However, the society tends to see only that part of the entity that is suitable and conveniently avoid the other. The trinity God concept is a representative of the three most important attributes and hence instead of saying /naming them these have been stated separately. You may consider as it suits you. For us it is not significant. It may be significant for a temple where only Shiv Devotees visit.


Purpose of life: To Meet HIM


Yes, it is true that Hinduism is the most tolerant religion and this has led to the Islamilisation as most of the Hindus are basically not used to aggressions. During the Mogul period there were many conversions and the killings of the Hindus.

The purpose of Life of Hindu is To raise oneself spiritually raised to a level that one becomes pure and finally be to the level that one can Call Ahm Brahm. [ I am like Him i.e. after purification of the soul to the level required that it is likely to merge with the Supreme soul.] One can quote from Geeta that is a source book for Hindus.

We have adopted many of Kabeer’s Dohay to explain things. The one commonly used :

Guru Gobind dooway Kharay..

Kake Lago Payee …

Balihari Guru Aapno jin Gobind diyo Milay.’



We do have Satsangs. Holy congregations .Some meet daily while other meet on once a week basis. There is again no rigidity.

Incarnations


Many do believe that Some Gods are incarnations of the Lord, the Almighty. Let it be. I am giving you the line taken from sikh-site that Nanak Sahib was a prophet/Incarnation and even a God.


Quote
“Sri Guru Nanak Sahib was the incarnation of the Lord Almighty,a prophet, a Jagat Guru from His very birth. He did not, therefore, need the guidance, aid or help of a wordly Guru. He was a born Param Guru, Jagat Guru, Guru Eternal, Supreme Guru. He was a Maker and Producer of Gurus-Divine. He was the Aad and Jugad Guru. As there is no count before one and before God, so is Sri Guru Nanak Sahib, the Supreme Jagat Guru. From this Guru Supreme has again emerged The Guru Eternal in the form of Sri Guru Granth Sahib radiating the Eternal Glory of Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji[1].”
Unquote

I do not want to argue on this aspect as to who He was and that He was is enough, whether he was Incarnate or a prophet is meaningless for the discussion till it is agreed to that HE was not himself The Almighty.

You may kindly state as to what are the major points of difference of Sikhism from Hinduism except the minor points that are so peculiar to some points. The 5ks need not be stated as a point of difference as we all know that these are there for the purpose of making you appear different.Bana].It wouldbe appreciated that we discuss the pointsat macro level.

In my opinion ,Sirs, nothing and no one is bad and all religions especially the religions of east shouldhave the common Goal. Sikhism is the closest to Hinduism as you must have seen above. You are ,ofcourse, to correct me.


With Regards to all.


[1]http://www.srigurugranthsahib.org/guru-nanak/index.htm

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Re: Sikhism : An old wine in -New Bottle

Venod Ji,

Guru Fateh.

Lets be frank and open and honest about things as we are all truthseekers. It is not a good debating skill when you ignore the questions asked.
We can only discuss the difference between the two religions when you are ready to respond about the questions put to you about your own religion.

So please be brave and respond them one by one and as you are at it,

can you also give us the details about the episode of Dropti and Pandavs in Gita?

Thanks again and donot show reluctance in seeking.

Tejwant

 

[venod]

Re: Sikhism : An old wine in -New Bottle

Sorry Tejwant ji,

I do not know where and who Drupti was. She is not a character of Gita. She appears in Epic of Mahabharta. Like wise Raam was incarnation or a prophet, it matters a little. Similary it matters not if Guru Nanak was a prophet or an incarnation. He was a great saint and a spritual teacher. I cannot say more than this. Yes, He said Dhur ki Bani.....I have no doubt about it. He has a great reverence and we all love Him here. We do have a calender in our home.


The beliefs of Hindu thought are varied, and have been expounded upon by saints and writers throughout the centuries. Some of the salient elements of hindu beliefs are presented here. I have put in all the efforts nonetheless there may be mistakes[1]. Enjoy!
Do tell me if your ‘Wahe-guru’ and ‘My God’ are different. They can never be and were never so as He is Saibhang. Oh my dear friends why have you closed yourself. Come home. We all need you… my dear brothers. Let us not be swayed by the politicians and the middlemen to the God for there cannot be any like this. The road to His home is wide and clear. What is not, cannot be and what is, cannot be what it is not. God is always one and was like this only. Whether He understands ‘Om’ or ‘Ong’ it matters a little, all that matter is that we did our duty. Sikhs are the most beautiful human beings but have closed themselves into a shell. Try to break it. Make your presence felt. After being with you for a small time I am convinced that Sikhi is the greatest gift to mankind and most fortunate are those who are blessed with this. Good- bye to you, my trusted friends, we knew each other since we were nine or ten. I am happy here reading my new found spritual teachers Gita and SGGS. See you if ordained.

Enjoy this also.
My quest is over. I have found some answer to a broken chain of thoughts.


Awal Alla Noor Upaya Kudrat de Sab bande,
Ek noor tey sab jag upajaiya Kaun bhale kaun mande.
Awal Alla…………………………..


The following is also applicable to Sikhs as well. My blood is as red as yours. I have all tools and attachments as are provided in the workshop of God. 'My God' cannot be a better mechanic than 'wahegur.' Let them enjoy their creation and let us enjoy His creation.With thisnote I beg your leave.........
On Creation:
The universe exists in endless cycles of creation, preservation and destruction. There is no absolute end to the world.
On The True God:
There is but one true and absolute Self, Supreme Being. God is pure Love.
On Paths to God:
Man is free to choose his form of worship, for all paths lead ultimately to God. Sin is only of the mind; Soul ispure.
On Man's Plight:
Man's suffering is but his soul's immaturity. He is on a progressive path which leads from ignorance to knowledge, from death to immortality.
On Evil:
There is no intrinsic evil. All is good. All is God.
On Virtue and Salvation:
Virtuous conduct and light belief are the foundation of religious life. Liberation requires knowledge and personal attainment.
On Doctrines:
Doctrines tend to be subtle, complex and even paradoxical. Freedom to worship and to believe in a variety of ways is predominant.
On Enlightenment:
The goals of enlightenment and liberation are to be found in this life, within man himself.
On Sainthood:
The path to saintliness is through self-discipline, purification, concentration, and contemplation. Value is placed on ascetic ideals, individual sadhana, and yoga.

Lovingly
Venod
You may send posts to reply to this. But I now consider it as a wastage of time to do this type of intellectualisations.
[1] It is standard article sent to you for knowing that no two religion will tell different things. It is our modern interpreters who would be responsible for this.Sorry for mistakes.

 

[simpy]

Re: Sikhism : An old wine in -New Bottle

Respected Vinod/Venod Ji,

God is always one and was like this only. Whether He understands ‘Om’ or ‘Ong’ it matters a little, all that matter is that we did our duty. Sikhs are the most beautiful human beings but have closed themselves into a shell. Try to break it. Make your presence felt. After being with you for a small time I am convinced that Sikhi is the greatest gift to mankind and most fortunate are those who are blessed with this.

Sikhs presence is felt for sure- no wonder many are after this religion to destroy it from its roots, THIS CANNOT HAPPEN WITHOUT SOMEBODY FEELING THE VERY STRONG PRESENCE MY VEER. If there is no presence, who cares??????

AS ME NEECH SAID BEFORE MY DEAR VEER-
SIKH DE KOL ANMOL KHAZAANA HAI BANI DA, and anybody and everybody is able to use it.....

'Bani Nirankaar' what a true Sikh has, Our Guru's have showered us with such a precious gift, NOBODY IN THE WORLD HAS Something like IT SIR........

if Sikhs dont have anything, then why Sikhs have been attacked, killed, exploited and looted by the Indian Goverment and other Sikh Haters in 80s and before as well as after, why there was an attack on Akaal Takht, KOI TA KHAZAANA HAI that's making others jealous of SIKHS or MAY BE AFRAID OF US 'SIKHS'. OTHERWISE WHY ALL THIS??????
its not our ZEROism but our HEROism that is bothering others....

IN 500 YEARS WE ARE THIS(inspite of all hidden backbiting and Attacks and looting from anti sikhs, inspite of the attempts to destroy Sikh History), IMAGINE IN ANOTHER 500 YEARS.............................



dear veer Vinod/venod ji, me neech suggest you to open your closed mind and believe your own line-"Sikhi is the greatest gift to mankind and most fortunate are those who are blessed with this"


endless thanks to you.....

one another thing, when a person's quest is over as you say-

My quest is over

me neech believe that this should be a state of complete peace, WELL CONGRATULATIONS FROM THE CORE OF MY HEART FOR REACHING THAT STATE OF BEING AND SHARING YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH ALL OF US......

please stay around to help other lost souls , may somebody needs guidance from a SAINTLY SOUL like YOURSELF.........

can these be the words of such a SOUL-

I am not interested in indulging in somethiong that may not be palatable. However, I do point out the significance of standardisation. In the last post Harjas ji has stated that ' Wahegur' and 'ek ongkar, satnaam....Gurprasad.' are same.

If it is so then 'Wahegur' is also guru mantar.
Ekong kar ...Satinam.......Gurparsad.......is Mool mantar.

The next question that I may ask if 'wahegur' is same as 'ek-ongkar.......Gurprasad.....'
then
'Gurmantar' and 'Mool mantar' should be same.
But it is not.

Hence there may be problem in saying as to which Mantar is Better.I hope I am clear in putting across my point of view. If it is not clear ,kindly tell me I shall attend to it.

Standardisation is always better. It is a point of view and we allnot not agree.

still lost in STANDARDISATIONS
still lost in others presence!!!!!!!!
still lost in the queston of agree/not agree??????
still lost in naming the ALLMIGHTY
still not sure about GURMANTRA...................................


humbly asking for everybody's forgiveness

 

[roopk]

Re: Sikhism : An old wine in -New Bottle

Quote from Vinod ji's Post No.54
Do tell me if your ‘Wahe-guru’ and ‘My God’ are different. They can never be and were never so as He is Saibhang. God is always one and was like this only. Whether He understands ‘Om’ or ‘Ong’ it matters a little, all that matter is that we did our duty. Sikhs are the most beautiful human beings but have closed themselves into a shell.

Awal Alla Noor Upaya Kudrat de Sab bande,
Ek noor tey sab jag upajaiya Kaun bhale kaun mande.
Awal Alla………………………….."

The following is also applicable to Sikhs as well. My blood is as red as yours. I have all tools and attachments as are provided in the workshop of God. 'My God' cannot be a better mechanic than 'wahegur.' Let them enjoy their creation and let us enjoy His creation.
Unquote

One Of the most beautiful post That I have ever seen Venod ji.

 

[singh is king]

Re: Sikhism : An old wine in -New Bottle

ssa vinod ji

before proceeding i want to clarify:

(1) How many Gods/Goddesses hinduism have? plz provide names

(2) How many sacred books hinduism have? plz provide names

After that I will show ya how sikhism is different from hinduism coz only after that you can know the greatness of sikhi

Endless Thanks

 

[kds1980]

Re: Sikhism : An old wine in -New Bottle

Do tell me if your ‘Wahe-guru’ and ‘My God’ are different. They can never be and were never so as He is Saibhang. God is always one and was like this only. Whether He understands ‘Om’ or ‘Ong’ it matters a little, all that matter is that we did our duty. Sikhs are the most beautiful human beings but have closed themselves into a shell.

Awal Alla Noor Upaya Kudrat de Sab bande,
Ek noor tey sab jag upajaiya Kaun bhale kaun mande.
Awal Alla………………………….."

The following is also applicable to Sikhs as well. My blood is as red as yours. I have all tools and attachments as are provided in the workshop of God. 'My God' cannot be a better mechanic than 'wahegur.' Let them enjoy their creation and let us enjoy His creation.

these quotes look's really good on forums,books,newspaper etc.but the main test is real life.in 1984 when indira gandhi was shot dead by a sikh,5000 innocent sikhs were mercilessly killed
all over india and after these killings rajiv gandhi won 400 seats in elections
in 1991 rajiv gandhi was killed by a tamilian hindu.did any innocent tamilian was killed
after his death.
i know you will say that congress is not a pro hindutva party to which i agree with but the main question is why they killed 5000innocent sikhs after the death of indira gandhi and why not even a single tamilian hindu was killed after the killing of rajiv gandhi ?
if majority of hindu's really beleive that there is no difference between a sikh's blood and a
hindu's blood then why they voted for congress in power after the 1984 killings?

 

[singh is king]

Re: Sikhism : An old wine in -New Bottle

Majority:}8-: feel JEALOUS with Sikhs CHARDHI KALA coz Sikhs are Genious

.
i know you will say that congress is not a pro hindutva party to which i agree with but the main question is why they killed 5000innocent sikhs after the death of indira gandhi and why not even a single tamilian hindu was killed after the killing of rajiv gandhi ?
?

​