Atheism Sikhism And Atheism: A Philosophical Discourse

[Lee]

I was trying to emphasize the equality that resides in all humans)...the division of humanity into groups is a job done by the profoundly unenlightened (this includes myslef as i just divided humanity again with my words).

Sinister ji,

I understand. Although I would not agree that the division of humanity into groups is done soley by the unenlightend. Sure some who do this for maliciouse porpouses can certianly be said to be unenlightend(you see what I did there?).

My post was really to highlight the fact that we humans need to do this in order to understand.

Take my example above. I made referance to the unenlightend, so I myself am guilty of divison between them and us. However how can we, that is you and I, talk and debate this without having recourse to these words?

In conclusion then, I agree with your original post, but I disagree that humanity using divisive words to describe itself, is in and of itself, a bad thing. There is surly no morality involved with words, it is how people use them that has moral bearing?

 

[Sinister]

Hi Sinister,

Where have you been all this while ?

I'm not letting you get away with a short comment like this and then disappear again. See this > #14

i was running contraband across the border to feed my 7 illegitimate children and my baby momma's.

Well, aside from your squeamish example of how an atheist turns to a bottle for solace…made me smirk when I saw it…and reminded me of a call I had to make…id say that was a pretty fine post that really can’t be argued with.

Are religions just larger more accepted cults?
Obviously not…but they all have displayed cultic elements at some points in their history.

For example a cult always proclaims to be a following of such that is under tremendous prosecution (which is true for many cults). Most, if not all, religions started off in this manor and continue to believe this.

So they share areas of profound similarity especially when it comes to the idea of promoting group cohesion… even the though the institution of the major religions has matured the tactics and agencies that strengthen group consciousness are largely the same with other newly developing cults.

Cheers

 

[Lee]

i was running contraband across the border to feed my 7 illegitimate children and my baby momma's.

Well, aside from your squeamish example of how an atheist turns to a bottle for solace…made me smirk when I saw it…and reminded me of a call I had to make…id say that was a pretty fine post that really can’t be argued with.

Are religions just larger more accepted cults?
Obviously not…but they all have displayed cultic elements at some points in their history.

For example a cult always proclaims to be a following of such that is under tremendous prosecution (which is true for many cults). Most, if not all, religions started off in this manor and continue to believe this.

So they share areas of profound similarity especially when it comes to the idea of promoting group cohesion… even the though the institution of the major religions has matured the tactics and agencies that strengthen group consciousness are largely the same with other newly developing cults.

Cheers

Heh what post number #14? The one that starts, what is religious and then goes on to say that religion is a belife system, and we all have belife systemss and so we are all religous?

We can certianly argue with that!:}{}{}:

Religion is not just any old belife system, is it specificaly a belife system based around the concept of divinity. An Atheist therefore can not be religious and an argument can be made that Buddhism is not a religion.

 

[Sinister]

Sinister ji,

I understand. Although I would not agree that the division of humanity into groups is done soley by the unenlightend. Sure some who do this for maliciouse porpouses can certianly be said to be unenlightend(you see what I did there?).

My post was really to highlight the fact that we humans need to do this in order to understand.

Take my example above. I made referance to the unenlightend, so I myself am guilty of divison between them and us. However how can we, that is you and I, talk and debate this without having recourse to these words?

In conclusion then, I agree with your original post, but I disagree that humanity using divisive words to describe itself, is in and of itself, a bad thing. There is surly no morality involved with words, it is how people use them that has moral bearing?

thats not entirely true... when a person views something objectively with complete attention, the divisions within humanity become rather meaningless, childish and petty. When a person starts to see an individual behind the group then compassion and understanding comes about.

this mode of thought was at the root of every non violent revolution that has taken place in history.

an observer not thinking himself separate from the observed.

and that is enlightenment

 

[Lee]

thats not entirely true... when a person views something objectively with complete attention, the divisions within humanity become rather meaningless. When a person starts to see an individual behind the group then compassion and understanding comes about.

this mode of thought was at the root of every non violent revolution that has taken place in history.

an observer not thinking himself separate from the observed.

and that is enlightenment

Yes indeed, I think you are correct.

However most of us (me included) are not able to do this all of the time. The practice of religion is a fix for this, easpecily one like Sikhi, with it's warnings about duality. Duality is what you are indeed talking about here, the mistaken belife that we are separate, from God, from each other.

You know I feel I'm going to like talking to you Sinsiter. Umm err ahhh or do I mean me?

 

[Sinister]

dude ywe need a check up .... we are talking to ourselves

yes yes and that is why atheists, muslims, sikhs, blah blah's need to come together in an egalitarian society to live in harmony with unicorns, puppies, kittens, gum drops, and chocolate factories.

god if it was only that simple

 

[Lee]

dude ywe need a check up .... we are talking to ourselves

yes yes and that is why atheists, muslims, sikhs, blah blah's need to come together in an egalitarian society to live in harmony with unicorns, puppies, kittens, gum drops, and chocolate factories.

god if it was only that simple

Hahah but it is not. Personaly I think that only a very, very, very, very tiny amount of people realise God. I have been Sikh for ohh about 8 years now, and in all that time I can honestly say that I have meet about two Gursikhs.

Still I guess that too is according to Gods will.

 

[Sinister]

Hahah but it is not. Personaly I think that only a very, very, very, very tiny amount of people realise God. I have been Sikh for ohh about 8 years now, and in all that time I can honestly say that I have meet about two Gursikhs.

Still I guess that too is according to Gods will.

that's two too many for me... i associate myself with the lower strata of gods great scum out there :}8-:

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/general-discussion/21797-the-a-manifesto.html

keep it awesome
sinister

 

[Astroboy]

The currently accepted theory for the creation of the universe is the big
bang theory which states that the universe has expanded into its current
state from a primordial condition of enormous density and temperature.
The Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji also supports the idea of a big bang and an
expanding universe
“In so many ways, He has unfolded Himself. So many times, He has
expanded His expansion. Forever and ever, He is the One, the One Universal
Creator.” SGGSJ page 276
“God, who expanded His expanse, is within all; I learned this from the True
Guru.” SGGSJ page 671
“By His Hukam, the Expanse of the Universe is expanded.” SGGSJ page 760
“The Gurmukh knows that the Lord has expanded the entire expanse”
SGGSJ page 1054

 

[Astroboy]

The Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji also supports the idea of a continuous cycle of
creation and destruction of our universe and that our current universe is
non-permanent.
“Creation and destruction happen through the Word of the Shabad.
Through the Shabad, creation happens again.” SGGSJ page 117
“Nothing of the color and the form of the creation shall remain; the entire
expanse is transitory.” SGGSJ page 999
“The entire creation came from God. As it pleases Him, He creates the
expanse. As it pleases Him, He becomes the One and Only again.” SGGSJ
page 294

 

[Astroboy]

Here's the rest of the pdf.
SIKHISM, SCIENCE AND QUANTUM PHYSICS
http://www.projectnaad.com/wp-conte...khism_science_and_quantum_physics_article.pdf

 

[Lee]

The Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji also supports the idea of a continuous cycle of
creation and destruction of our universe and that our current universe is
non-permanent.
“Creation and destruction happen through the Word of the Shabad.
Through the Shabad, creation happens again.” SGGSJ page 117
“Nothing of the color and the form of the creation shall remain; the entire
expanse is transitory.” SGGSJ page 999
“The entire creation came from God. As it pleases Him, He creates the
expanse. As it pleases Him, He becomes the One and Only again.” SGGSJ
page 294

Indeed, which supoports brane theory.

 

[Astroboy]

Http://RajKaregaKhalsa

Aarti of an idol/image is criticised in Gurbani.

When Baba Ravidas Ji was asked to perform Aarti, he refused to do. He replied:

Naam Tero Aarti Mujan Murare | Har Ke Naam Ke Naam Bin Jhoote Sagal Paasare | Rahaao |

O Lord! (Ignorant people do Aarti (worship through waving lights, but for me) Your Name, Lord, is Your Aarti, adoration, and cleansing bath (of pilgrimages). Without the Name of the Lord, all ostentatious displays are false and useless. ||1||Pause|| (Ang 694, SGGS)

When Guru Nanak Sahib Ji travelled to Banaras, the Brahman Pandits invited Guru Ji to join them to do Aarti of God. Guru Nanak Sahib Ji agreed and went and sat inside the Mandir. The Pandits stood in front of the stone idol gods and started to wave platters with lights, incense and offering place on it. When they had finished they complained to Guru Nanak Sahib Ji. "You said you would join us to do the Aarti of God, but you remain sat on the floor with your eyes closed!" Guru Nanak Sahib Ji then replied with this Shabad:

Gagan Mai Thaal Rav Chand Deepak Banay Taarikaa Mandal Janak Motee | Dhoop Mal-aanlo Pavan Chavro Karay Sagal Banraa-ay Foolant Jotee | Kaisee Aartee Ho-ay | Bhav Khandnaa Tayree Aartee | Anhataa Sabad Vaajant Bhayree | Rahaao |

The whole sky is (as if) the plate. The sun and moon are the lamps (placed in the plate). The stars and their orbs, are as if, studded pearls (in the plate). The wind fragranced with sandalwood is as if the (temple) incense. The wind is the fan. All the plants of the world are the altar flowers in offering to You, O Luminous Lord. ||1|| (In nature) what a beautiful Aartee, lamp-lit worship service of You is this! O Destroyer of Fear, this is Your Aarti, Ceremony of Light. The Unstruck Sound-current of the Shabad (vibrating within all the creation) is as if the (temple) drums are being played. ||1||Pause|| (Ang 13, SGGS)

 

[BhagatSingh]

I dont think Aarti is "Criticized" exactly. I think Guru Sahibs and other such persons were beyond that stage of sticking to something material so they sang those hymns.

They were inspiring others to progress higher by inspiring them. "Guys the WHOLE universe is doing aarti! The sky is the plate... and you guys are still worrying about those smaller plates, cmon lets join the universe instead!" that kind of thing. Criticism would be something that would tell them that it's wrong. Guru Sahib's shabads inpire Hindus to continue to perform aarti but those who progress are always part of the Aarti by the universe.
I am in no position to present Guru Sahibs poetry but that's what I feel anyway.

 

[spnadmin]

Bhagat ji

I tend to agree. Rarely does Guruji say Don't Do It or This is Wrong. Rather Guruji seems to say - There is a Better Way... Just my thoughts.

 

[Astroboy]

Henny Youngman: I once wanted to become an atheist but I gave up . . . they have no holidays.


Quentin Crisp: When I told the people of Northern Ireland that I was an atheist, a woman in the audience stood up and said,

"Yes, but is it the God of the Catholics or the God of the Protestants in whom you don't believe?"

 

[spnadmin]

Sort of captures my thinking about the predicament built into the discussion on both counts.

 

[Astroboy]

God is Imaginary - 50 simple proofs

 

[spnadmin]

Don't misinterpret my CONCILIATORY TONE :ice: in the previous post to mean agreement. NOT IMAGINARY! :advocate:

:u)::u)::u)::u)::u):

 

[Astroboy]

On the contrary, there is more :crazy::

[SIZE=-1]ਪੜਿ ਪੜਿ ਪੰਡਿਤ ਜੋਤਕੀ ਵਾਦ ਕਰਹਿ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ ॥
[SIZE=-1]पड़ि पड़ि पंडित जोतकी वाद करहि बीचारु ॥[/SIZE]
Paṛ paṛ pandiṯ joṯkī vāḏ karahi bīcẖār.
After all their reading, the Pandits, the religious scholars, and the astrologers argue and debate.
ਮਃ 3 - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE][/SIZE]​