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Apr 4, 2007
934
29
It has nothing to do with how God made someone. Those who rape are also made by God. They can in no means be called Sikhs. Those who have greed issues and kill are also made by God, they can't be called Sikhs. Same way, homosexuals can't be called Sikhs. They should get treatment and fix themselves instead of asking for rights. This is same for drugs addicts and cannabis addcits. God made them excuse doesn't work. There are countless shabads which talk about husband and wife. Who is husband and who is wife in between homosexuals? This is just dirty and low life.


why do you keep associating homosexuality with mental disorders and addictions?

homosexuality is genetic. god created them this way. they're following their true nature. the fact that you do not follow this nature does not make it wrong.

husband and wife are words we use to describe roles we have in life. it is very possible for a man to fulfil a wife's role (except for childbirth, of course), or a woman to fulfil a husband's role. they're simply words, they do not necessarily describe gender.
 
Jul 13, 2004
588
63
36
UK
I would like to know who wrote the quote just given as it talks about 'forbidden' food and the modesty of women... a Muslim perhaps? I tried to find out but no avail.
Sodomy is a Christian concept referring to non-procreative sexual acts. This includes kissing, oral sex, anal sex and vaginal sex with contraceptives, ANY pious Sikhs who have a sahagrat (sp?) on their wedding night and consumate and do not conceive immediately are comitting a grave sin and are no longer Sikhs by your definition.
The definition of a Sikh was completely different at the time of Guru Nanak. Muslims and Hindus prayed at HarMandir Saheb and Muslims even did salat inside the Gurdwara. The Gurdwara is not simply for a small amount of people, Sikhism is a syncretic religion and can be interpreted in many ways so deal with it. However at the core of it all is the message of non-duality - There is nothing that is not God.
My friend you have been indoctrinated with the puritanical colonial form of Sikhism.
 
Apr 4, 2007
934
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Thos English translations are wrong. It is about women becoming lesbians and men becoming homosexuals. Guru Sahib says it has to do with disease of the mind so it is personal choice in the end. Doesn't matter.


please give me the correct translation. or please suggest a location where i can find accurate translations. i have been using www.srigranth.org for translations, and it contains translations by several scholars. but if there is a better source i am always open to learning more.
 
Dec 1, 2006
315
186
I will translate it when i get time. There are other shabads which reject any sexual intercourse which is against nature. God made man and wife and made female organs and male organs. Male with mail is unnatural and is result of deficiencies.

E.g. Many kids in punjab are born as drug addicts due to their parents. Do we give them Amrit and make them Khalsas? Everyone will say no unless the person is a druggy himself or herself.

Same way why do we have to leave Gurmat and attract homosexuals? I saw an advertisement in Punjabi newspaper which said they got cure for homoseuxality.

Rozana Spokesman Online........

So get the disease cured or help find the medicine. Don't promote the disease due to nature excuse.

Nature is what is normal. Normal is male and female attraction. Male and male isn't nature but against nature.
 
Apr 4, 2007
934
29
I will translate it when i get time. There are other shabads which reject any sexual intercourse which is against nature. God made man and wife and made female organs and male organs. Male with mail is unnatural and is result of deficiencies.

E.g. Many kids in punjab are born as drug addicts due to their parents. Do we give them Amrit and make them Khalsas? Everyone will say no unless the person is a druggy himself or herself.

Same way why do we have to leave Gurmat and attract homosexuals? I saw an advertisement in Punjabi newspaper which said they got cure for homoseuxality.

Rozana Spokesman Online........

So get the disease cured or help find the medicine. Don't promote the disease due to nature excuse.

Nature is what is normal. Normal is male and female attraction. Male and male isn't nature but against nature.

ahh... now i get it. the spokesman says it's a disease so it must be so!

forget these stupid western doctors, they don't know anything. :D


i'll stop arguing with you on this issue, i know you will not be convinced.
 

Sherab

SPNer
Mar 26, 2007
441
20
USA
If we accept that marriage or a relationship is the Union of two souls and the soul is genderless then what does the external shell matter i.e. male or female?

The soul is considered, actually, female for all :)

The male is the One Lord.

However, for best purposes, although the soul is genderless - to have a family, and leave the life of a householder - it is suggested that it be between male and female.
 
Dec 1, 2006
315
186
Soul is genderless. Body isn't. Don't try to act smart. As for Takht hukam, yes hukamnama was issued last year and every Panthic organization agreed with it.
 
Dec 1, 2006
315
186
I am not here to debate how body and soul are related and stuff because I got other projects to complete. If someone has more issues, take the matter to Akaal Takht.
 
Jul 13, 2004
588
63
36
UK
Akaal Takht issued a hukamnama saying no gay marriages allowed. What happens to hukamnama when it applied yo you?
No they issued an Islam-style fatwa so they wouldn't have to address the issue of homosexuality. Hukamnama is a quote from SGGS at random. SGGS is not a moral code book, it is in praise of God - go figure.
 
Dec 1, 2006
315
186
No they issued an Islam-style fatwa so they wouldn't have to address the issue of homosexuality. Hukamnama is a quote from SGGS at random. SGGS is not a moral code book, it is in praise of God - go figure.

I skate but don't figure skate. However, Panth also has authority to issue hukamnama based on teachings of Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Guru Sahib was against anything which isn't natural. Being gay isn't natural or most people would be gay. It is a deficeincy and occurs due to paap karam in previous joons. Best way to fix is to live in hukam of Guru and not be gay instead of asking for rights to marriage. If people can choose to be celebates, people can choose to not be gay. We have different bathrooms for men and women, what about gays who like to look at men? Shows how bad gay thing is. Moral corruption to the max just like tria chariters.
 

kds1980

SPNer
Apr 3, 2005
4,502
2,743
44
INDIA
I would like to know who wrote the quote just given as it talks about 'forbidden' food and the modesty of women... a Muslim perhaps? I tried to find out but no avail.
Sodomy is a Christian concept referring to non-procreative sexual acts. This includes kissing, oral sex, anal sex and vaginal sex with contraceptives, ANY pious Sikhs who have a sahagrat (sp?) on their wedding night and consumate and do not conceive immediately are comitting a grave sin and are no longer Sikhs by your definition.
The definition of a Sikh was completely different at the time of Guru Nanak. Muslims and Hindus prayed at HarMandir Saheb and Muslims even did salat inside the Gurdwara. The Gurdwara is not simply for a small amount of people, Sikhism is a syncretic religion and can be interpreted in many ways so deal with it. However at the core of it all is the message of non-duality - There is nothing that is not God.
My friend you have been indoctrinated with the puritanical colonial form of Sikhism.

I don't understand why do you bring the issue of sikhism at the time of guru nanak.
In this way all religions can be questioned

1)What was the defination of christian at the time of christ?

2)What was the defination of muslim at the time of muhammed?

3)What was the defination of hindu 2500 years ago

4)What was the defination of buddhist at the time of buddha

The muslims and hindu's that were following guru nanak were as good in the eye of their religion.As a good sikh following ram, rahim or any other dera
 

kds1980

SPNer
Apr 3, 2005
4,502
2,743
44
INDIA
No they issued an Islam-style fatwa so they wouldn't have to address the issue of homosexuality. Hukamnama is a quote from SGGS at random. SGGS is not a moral code book, it is in praise of God - go figure.

Well the panth has the authority to decide what is good ,and what is bad for community.
 

KulwantK

SPNer
Oct 31, 2007
164
40
Sat Nam and Greetings to all!
Obviously, this question has struck a chord in many. Any question having to do with sex and sexuality will of course be of concern.
When ever I find myself confronted with anything that could be controversial within my thoughts and feelings about it, or controversial between my views and someone else's, I have always found comfort in what Guru Nanak Ji said, "If you cannot see God in All, you cannot see God at all."
That being said, here are some thoughts on this topic.
Sex is, of course, of concern for obvious reasons. Anytime anyone wishes to engage in sexual practices it is ideally in a responsible manner, and it is not something to be engaged in or thought about lightly or casually. We all know the sad consequences of promiscuity(regardless of orientations or genders involved)- the unplanned pregnancies, the transmission of diseases, the psychological damages, and the commodification of human beings into objects, to name a few. As regards homosexuality, one way to really explore just exactly how you feel about it, and how you think and feel about it in relation to Sikhism and religion in general is to engage in a mental exercize and pretend that one of your siblings, or one of your best friends, or other relative, has just told you that he or she is homosexual. Then see what your thoughts are, and how you feel.
This really did in actually happen to me. One of my cousins told me she is homosexual. She is also a devout Christian. She was very hesitant to tell me. I hugged her and asked her, "Why did you feel so reluctant to tell me? Did you think I would stop loving you? I will always love you, you are dear to me, and I want for your highest good and happiness in all ways!" She told me she was so happy to hear that, but that she was worried about what the people in her church would think. I told her that her relationship with God is the First Relationship, and that my feelings about that matter are that as long as she has the relationship with the Divine as her most important relationship, and stayed in close contact with God always, that all other matters would be taken care of, and she need not to worry. I told her about how we Sikhs are to keep Nam Simran, and that she might think about doing the same. This was 2 years ago, and she is doing well, and does her own Nam Simran, in a Christian context. Interestingly enough, about a year ago, a Sikh lady told me she was homosexual, too, and was also hesitant to say anything to anyone. I hugged her and told her much the same thing as I told my cousin, that the Relationship with God and Guru is the most important, and reminded her of what Guru Nanak Ji said, and she was very much happy with that. So, it is a delicate subject indeed, but on a very personal level, I cannot not love someone and I cannot condemn anyone just because they are homosexual... indeed, basically everyone is a brother or sister of mine in the eyes of the Divine, including anyone reading this, and, as my cousin would say, We are all God's children anyway!
Blessings to all,
Kulwant
 
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