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Sikhism And Homosexuality
- Thread starter Kandola
- Start date
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If you do not post the page numbers we will dlete them as non verifiable. The choice is yours.
Please keep a civil tongue on this forum. This is your final warning.
The Khalsa Fauj
SPNer
- Dec 1, 2006
- 315
- 186
I don't know what you mean by civil toungue because I didn't use any harsh words or foul language.
Page number is:
1243.
vijaydeep Singh
SPNer
Gurfateh
ਪੰਨਾ 1375, ਸਤਰ 9
ਕਬੀਰ ਮੇਰਾ ਮੁਝ ਮਹਿ ਕਿਛੁ ਨਹੀ ਜੋ ਕਿਛੁ ਹੈ ਸੋ ਤੇਰਾ ॥
कबीर मेरा मुझ महि किछु नही जो किछु है सो तेरा ॥
Kabīr mėrā mujẖ meh kicẖẖ nahī jo kicẖẖ hai so ṯėrā.
Kabeer, nothing is mine within myself. Whatever there is, is Yours, O Lord.
ਭਗਤ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok
ਪੰਨਾ 1375, ਸਤਰ 9
ਕਬੀਰ ਮੇਰਾ ਮੁਝ ਮਹਿ ਕਿਛੁ ਨਹੀ ਜੋ ਕਿਛੁ ਹੈ ਸੋ ਤੇਰਾ ॥
कबीर मेरा मुझ महि किछु नही जो किछु है सो तेरा ॥
Kabīr mėrā mujẖ meh kicẖẖ nahī jo kicẖẖ hai so ṯėrā.
Kabeer, nothing is mine within myself. Whatever there is, is Yours, O Lord.
ਭਗਤ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok
vijaydeep Singh
SPNer
Gurfateh
ਪੰਨਾ 736, ਸਤਰ 4
ਮੇਰੇ ਹਰਿ ਜੀਉ ਸਭੁ ਕੋ ਤੇਰੈ ਵਸਿ ॥
मेरे हरि जीउ सभु को तेरै वसि ॥
Mėrė har jī­o sabẖ ko ṯėrai vas.
O my Dear Lord, everything is in Your power.
ਮਃ 4 - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok
ਪੰਨਾ 736, ਸਤਰ 4
ਮੇਰੇ ਹਰਿ ਜੀਉ ਸਭੁ ਕੋ ਤੇਰੈ ਵਸਿ ॥
मेरे हरि जीउ सभु को तेरै वसि ॥
Mėrė har jī­o sabẖ ko ṯėrai vas.
O my Dear Lord, everything is in Your power.
ਮਃ 4 - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok
vijaydeep Singh
SPNer
Gurfateh
what about vice and virtue.
ਪੰਨਾ 325, ਸਤਰ 6
ਪਾਪ ਪੁੰਨ ਦੁਇ ਏਕ ਸਮਾਨ ॥
पाप पुंन दुइ एक समान ॥
Pāp punn ḏu­ė ėk samān.
Sin and virtue are both the same.
ਭਗਤ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok
what about vice and virtue.
ਪੰਨਾ 325, ਸਤਰ 6
ਪਾਪ ਪੁੰਨ ਦੁਇ ਏਕ ਸਮਾਨ ॥
पाप पुंन दुइ एक समान ॥
Pāp punn ḏu­ė ėk samān.
Sin and virtue are both the same.
ਭਗਤ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok
The Anand marriage ceremony was not something synonymous with Sikhism until early 1900's. Just like the Hindus, Sikhs used to go around the fire. So the Anand ceremony is not a valid argument, in my opinion, as it was a law created during the time of the British rule and was is not proclaimed by the Gurus. Anand Marriage Act 1908. Staying consistent with the Granth Sahib, sexuality - with the exception of lust - is not addressed so anyone can presume anything but as far as I'm concerned theres nothing wrong with homosexuality.
Culture on the other hand dictates otherwise. It could be fine being gay, but it may not necessarily be accepted by the society you live in or by friends and family.
Culture on the other hand dictates otherwise. It could be fine being gay, but it may not necessarily be accepted by the society you live in or by friends and family.
Anand marriage ceremony was there before 1908
Here is the history of anand marriage ceremony
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Guru Gobind Singh
Guru Gobind Singh promoted Anand Karaj. In this context, his Hukam Namahs by
various authors provides no clarification. In Reht Namah by Bhai Daya Singh 14 is
written that a Sikh should not get married by a Brahmin.. It means that Sikh should not
marry by Vedic ceremony, and should not get it done except by Anand Karaj.
Bhai Mani Singh was contemporary of Guru Gobind Singh. In Bhagtawali by
Bhai Mani Singh, under the heading Vajub-al-Araz, Guru Gobind Singh 15 advised that
marriage should be done by Anand Karaj, and after that it should be got done by
Brahmin
Nirankari Lehr
Founder of Nirankari movement Baba Dayal ji 20 (1773 – 1855 A.D.), realized that Sikhs
did not adhere to their religious practices, and these were suppressed by practices of
Hindu priests. He determined to awaken the Sikhs. In 1808 A.D. he got himself married
[19] Jiwan Marag, Dr. Kulwant Singh Khokhar, Academy of Guru Granth Studies, USA, !983-84,
Abridged from autobiography of S. Mela Singh Khokhar, 1958 A.D.
[20] Baba Dayal ji Nirankari: Dayal ji – Sikh Dharam De Sidhant, Dr. Man Singh Nirakari, referred to
above. Pages 48 to 53. Encyclopedia of Sikhism, Chief Edited Harbans Singh, Punjabi University, Patiala,
1992, Page 126.
with Shabad-Kirtan and Ardas, in Dharamsala of Sant Budhu Shah, Sewa Panthi, in
Bhera (now in Pakistan).
In 1855, his son Baba Darbara Singh Nirankari, married a couple in Nirankari
Darbar in Rawalpindi (now in Pakistan), by Anand Karaj. In this ceremony, four Lavan’
in Raag Suhi were recited, and the boy followed by girl, went around Guru Granth Sahib
with each recitation of Lavan’ (total four rounds). This Anand Karaj movement initiated
by Nirankaris faced strong opposition and difficulties, but Nirnkaris whole-heartedly
persisted in following their effort to revive Sikh procedures.
In 1855 A.D., Baba Darbara Singh married with Anand Karaj, Bhola Singh son of
Nihal Singh Kakkar, and Nihali daughter of Waheguru Singh (Hari Singh Siali, Khatri).
It was an open, fearless and united challenge to the opponents of Anand Vivah.
In 1861 A.D., Baba Darbara Singh was refused by Granthis and Pujaris of
Harimandir Sahib and Akal Takht to hold Anand Karaj in Akal Takht, Amritsar. Nothing
deterred Baba Darbara Singh. With cooperation of Thakur Gulab Singh, he performed
Anand Karaj of Boota Singh with Mira Dai daughter of Karam Singh, in the Gurdwara of
Thakur Dayal Singh, at Amritsar. It was an eye opener to Mahants and Granthis of
Harimandir Sahib, and Akal Takht, as well as was a lesson to others in Amritsar.
In the time of Baba Ratta ji Nirankari, during 1992 A.D. to 1998 A.D. Anand
marriages were performed at Lahore, and Peshawar etc. Nirnkaris pursued Anand
marriages devotedly, adding to its acceptance, practice, and popularity in the Sikh
masses.
Namdharis
Baba Ram Singh Namdhari,21 was founder of Namdhari movement. He visited Dewan of
Nirankaris. Anand Karaj was being performed. After Dewan (program in Gurdwara) was
over, Baba Ram Singh discussed the newly started Anand Vivah with Baba Darbara
Singh, and got information about this ceremony. Baba Darbara Singh asked Baba Ram
Singh to cooperate in promoting Anand Karaj. Baba Ram Singh Namdhari, adopted
Anand marriage in 1863 A.D. with the difference that Pherae (Lavan’ - going around)
were done around Vedi cum Havan.
Singh Sabha Lehr
When Namdhari Lehr was suppressed by the English Government, Singh Sabha Lehr 22
came into being in Amritsar, in 1873 A.D. Later, its branches opened at Rawalpindi, an
Lahore. Its motive was to remove all non-Sikh ceremonies from the Sikh world, and to
bring revolution in the Sikh life – living as per the Sikh dictates. They reformed working
in Gurdwaras, and day-to-day religious life of Sikhs.
In 1883, Khalsa Dewan Amritsar was established, and after that Khlsa Dewan
Lahore (1886) was formed. Due to differences in Khalsa Dewans Amritsar and Lahore,
Chief Khalsa Dewan was formed at Amritsar (1902). Its president was Bhai Sahib Arjun
[21]
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Bhai Daya Singh rahitnama is dated to the 1800's not the time of the Guru's putting into question its authenticity. The Namdharis produced the ceremony for themselves, it was later adopted by the entire Sikh panth.
My point is that it was a later adoption and not something produced by or during the time of the Gurus. Another words it was created by the Sikh community later.
My point is that it was a later adoption and not something produced by or during the time of the Gurus. Another words it was created by the Sikh community later.
There is every possibility that anand ceremony was there at the time of guru's
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The Anand Marriage Act
K. S. TALWAR
National Archives, New Delhi
Recently some attempts have been made to suggest that the Anand marriage ceremony was initiated by the Namdhari Guru Baba Ram Singh. Both Dr. Fauja Singh Bajwa and Dr. M. M. Ahluwalia in their works on the Kukas contend that the Namdhari Guru was the initiator of this form of marriage. Dr. Ahluwalia has even written that “The Namdhari sources claim that the Anand Marriages were not initiated by anybody except their Guru Ram Singh” and also that “the Anand Marriage Act was passed by the Government of India due to the efforts of the then Namdhari Satguru Pratap Singh, Tikka Ripudaman Singh of Nabha and some others.”1 A study of the papers relating to the Act does not support this sweeping contention. True, the Kuka Guru did send a letter to the Government to support the measure.2 But in this he was acting in concert with several other Sikh leaders and associations. In fact, neither he nor his followers claimed the Anand marriage to be their innovation.
The Anand ceremony “was initiated by the third Guru of the Sikhs, Guru Amar Das and the marriages of Bhai Kamlia and Matho Murari were performed in accordance therewith in the time of third and fourth Gurus, the last of whom composed the four Laawaan in the Suhi Rag of the Guru Gninth Sahih, the sacred book of the Sikhs.”3 The occasion and circumstances for the initiation of this form of marriage has been detailed in a note prepared by [?] the then professor of the Khalsa College, Lyallpur. He wrote:
Guru Amar Dass tried to barter down all the injurious caste barriers, and, incensed at this noble effort of the third Guru, the Hindus excommunicated those Sikhs of the Guru who in obedience to his teachings had ceased to observe caste. Among those Sikhs was one named Randhawa. When he wanted to marry his daughter, the Brahmins refused to come and officiate at the solemnisation of the marriage, saying that having become a Sikh of Guru Amar Das he had ceased to be a Hindu, and thus had forfeited every right to have the marriage of his daughter performed according to Hindu rituals. Upon this the Sikh went to Guru Amar Das Ji, and said he was prepared to keep his daughter unmarried, but would on no account consent to the ceremony being performed according to Hindus who were so wrath at his having given up the whimsical caste distinctions. Realizing the fix in which the Sikh was, the Guru ordered his son-in-law (afterwards Guru Ram Das Ji) to go and officiate at the marriage of the Sikh’s daughter. It was on this occasion that the four laawaan were originally composed by the fourth Guru.
The next noteworthy occasion on which the entire form prescribed conjointly by the third and fourth Gurus was observed was the marriage of the sixth. Guru’s daughter (Bibi Viro) at the village Jhabal in the Amritsar district.4
Henceforth a fair came to be held annually to commemorate this remarkable marriage. Ever since that day the Anand riti became the recognised form of marriage among the Sikhs.
This ceremony however fell into partial disuse soon after the Sikh power was established in the Punjab. Earlier and so long as they had no settled home, “the Sikhs united by the bonds of
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you can read the full article on the following link.
Articles
Sat Nam, everyone, and I am trusting today is finding you all well!
Oh, dear, some topics do encourage, ah, shall we say, highly active discussions, indeed! Anything having to do with sex and sexuality of all sorts is most definitely such a topic. I remember my relatives telling me that certain topics of conversation were topics to be very careful with!
Regarding this topic of homosexuality, what, exactly, is the issue here-especially for you, Khalsa Fauj? Is the issue one of whether or not homosexuals can be Sikhs? Please do correct me if I am wrong. If that really is the issue, and you ardently wish to make sure that no homosexuals are Sikhs, please do tell how such an edict should be enforced. What would you do, and how would you do it?
Cheers,
Kulwant
Oh, dear, some topics do encourage, ah, shall we say, highly active discussions, indeed! Anything having to do with sex and sexuality of all sorts is most definitely such a topic. I remember my relatives telling me that certain topics of conversation were topics to be very careful with!
Regarding this topic of homosexuality, what, exactly, is the issue here-especially for you, Khalsa Fauj? Is the issue one of whether or not homosexuals can be Sikhs? Please do correct me if I am wrong. If that really is the issue, and you ardently wish to make sure that no homosexuals are Sikhs, please do tell how such an edict should be enforced. What would you do, and how would you do it?
Cheers,
Kulwant
I have gone through the initial posts and the last few posts and would be enlightened if there is any direct reference to homo-sexuality in the bani's of Guru Sahibaan.
One may like to reply or ignore.I do not want to cause diversion from any issue that is being discussed.
One may like to reply or ignore.I do not want to cause diversion from any issue that is being discussed.
Sat Sri Akaal veer Kandola Ji,
I agree that God has created everything on the earth, for the betterment of the human being. The nature has given us everything and we should use the things given or created by the
god in positive sense and not in negative sense. We are selfish and think for negative use first
Bhul chuk maaf karni ji. Ham Nahin changey bura nahin koai.
Sat Sri Akaal.
I agree that God has created everything on the earth, for the betterment of the human being. The nature has given us everything and we should use the things given or created by the
god in positive sense and not in negative sense. We are selfish and think for negative use first
Bhul chuk maaf karni ji. Ham Nahin changey bura nahin koai.
Sat Sri Akaal.
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Dear Kandola ji,
God did not create Homosexuality. He created humans (and everything else) and gave 'Budhi' to distinguish between proper and improper, good and bad. What you choose is your free will, but consequences of the choice are not as per your free will. It is like a video game, all moves (right or wrong) have been pre-coded and one playing it is free to choose any move. But at the the game will be won or lost as per the moves you made. Guru Arjan Dev Ji has clarified in Basant Raag (Ang 1185) as follows:
ਬਸੰਤੁ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ਘਰੁ ੨ ਹਿੰਡੋਲ ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
ਹੋਇ ਇਕਤ੍ਰ ਮਿਲਹੁ ਮੇਰੇ ਭਾਈ ਦੁਬਿਧਾ ਦੂਰਿ ਕਰਹੁ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਇ ॥ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੈ ਕੇ ਹੋਵਹੁ ਜੋੜੀ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਬੈਸਹੁ ਸਫਾ ਵਿਛਾਇ ॥੧॥ ਇਨ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਬਿਧਿ ਪਾਸਾ ਢਾਲਹੁ ਬੀਰ ॥ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਹੁ ਦਿਨੁ ਰਾਤੀ ਅੰਤ ਕਾਲਿ ਨਹ ਲਾਗੈ ਪੀਰ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ ਕਰਮ ਧਰਮ ਤੁਮ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਚਉਪੜਿ ਸਾਜਹੁ ਸਤੁ ਕਰਹੁ ਤੁਮ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਸਾਰੀ ॥ ਕਾਮੁ ਕ੍ਰੋਧੁ ਲੋਭੁ ਮੋਹੁ ਜੀਤਹੁ ਐਸੀ ਖੇਲ ਹਰਿ ਪਿਆਰੀ ॥੨॥ ਉਠਿ ਇਸਨਾਨੁ ਕਰਹੁ ਪਰਭਾਤੇ ਸੋਏ ਹਰਿ ਆਰਾਧੇ ॥ ਬਿਖੜੇ ਦਾਉ ਲੰਘਾਵੈ ਮੇਰਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਸੁਖ ਸਹਜ ਸੇਤੀ ਘਰਿ ਜਾਤੇ ॥੩॥ ਹਰਿ ਆਪੇ ਖੇਲੈ ਆਪੇ ਦੇਖੈ ਹਰਿ ਆਪੇ ਰਚਨੁ ਰਚਾਇਆ ॥ ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਜੋ ਨਰੁ ਖੇਲੈ ਸੋ ਜਿਣਿ ਬਾਜੀ ਘਰਿ ਆਇਆ ॥੪॥੧॥੧੯॥
BASANT, FIFTH MEHL, SECOND HOUSE, HINDOL:
ONE UNIVERSAL CREATOR GOD. BY THE GRACE OF THE TRUE GURU:
Come and join together, O my Siblings of Destiny; dispel your sense of duality and let yourselves be lovingly absorbed in the Lord. Let yourselves be joined to the Name of the Lord; become Gurmukh, spread out your mat, and sit down. || 1 || In this way, throw the dice, O brothers. As Gurmukh, chant the Naam, the Name of the Lord, day and night. At the very last moment, you shall not have to suffer in pain. || 1 || Pause || Let righteous actions be your gameboard, and let the truth be your dice. Conquer sexual desire, anger, greed and worldly attachment; only such a game as this is dear to the Lord. || 2 || Rise in the early hours of the morning, and take your cleansing bath. Before you go to bed at night, remember to worship the Lord. My True Guru will assist you, even on your most difficult moves; you shall reach your true home in celestial peace and poise. || 3 || The Lord Himself plays, and He Himself watches; the Lord Himself created the creation. O servant Nanak, that person who plays this game as Gurmukh, wins the game of life, and returns to his true home. || 4 || 1 || 19 ||
Kabir ji on Ang 1159 says:
ਇਹੀ ਤੇਰਾ ਅਉਸਰੁ ਇਹ ਤੇਰੀ ਬਾਰ ॥ ਘਟ ਭੀਤਰਿ ਤੂ ਦੇਖੁ ਬਿਚਾਰਿ ॥ ਕਹਤ ਕਬੀਰੁ ਜੀਤਿ ਕੈ ਹਾਰਿ ॥ ਬਹੁ ਬਿਧਿ ਕਹਿਓ ਪੁਕਾਰਿ ਪੁਕਾਰਿ ॥੫॥੧॥੯॥
This is your chance, and this is your time. Look deep into your own heart, and reflect on this. Says Kabeer, you can win or lose. In so many ways, I have proclaimed this out loud. || 5 || 1 || 9 ||
So Veer ji, It is your life and a chance given to you by God. Win or Lose. Choice is yours. Do not blame God later.
Daas
Kawaljit Singh
God did not create Homosexuality. He created humans (and everything else) and gave 'Budhi' to distinguish between proper and improper, good and bad. What you choose is your free will, but consequences of the choice are not as per your free will. It is like a video game, all moves (right or wrong) have been pre-coded and one playing it is free to choose any move. But at the the game will be won or lost as per the moves you made. Guru Arjan Dev Ji has clarified in Basant Raag (Ang 1185) as follows:
ਬਸੰਤੁ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ਘਰੁ ੨ ਹਿੰਡੋਲ ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
ਹੋਇ ਇਕਤ੍ਰ ਮਿਲਹੁ ਮੇਰੇ ਭਾਈ ਦੁਬਿਧਾ ਦੂਰਿ ਕਰਹੁ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਇ ॥ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੈ ਕੇ ਹੋਵਹੁ ਜੋੜੀ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਬੈਸਹੁ ਸਫਾ ਵਿਛਾਇ ॥੧॥ ਇਨ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਬਿਧਿ ਪਾਸਾ ਢਾਲਹੁ ਬੀਰ ॥ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਹੁ ਦਿਨੁ ਰਾਤੀ ਅੰਤ ਕਾਲਿ ਨਹ ਲਾਗੈ ਪੀਰ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ ਕਰਮ ਧਰਮ ਤੁਮ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਚਉਪੜਿ ਸਾਜਹੁ ਸਤੁ ਕਰਹੁ ਤੁਮ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਸਾਰੀ ॥ ਕਾਮੁ ਕ੍ਰੋਧੁ ਲੋਭੁ ਮੋਹੁ ਜੀਤਹੁ ਐਸੀ ਖੇਲ ਹਰਿ ਪਿਆਰੀ ॥੨॥ ਉਠਿ ਇਸਨਾਨੁ ਕਰਹੁ ਪਰਭਾਤੇ ਸੋਏ ਹਰਿ ਆਰਾਧੇ ॥ ਬਿਖੜੇ ਦਾਉ ਲੰਘਾਵੈ ਮੇਰਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਸੁਖ ਸਹਜ ਸੇਤੀ ਘਰਿ ਜਾਤੇ ॥੩॥ ਹਰਿ ਆਪੇ ਖੇਲੈ ਆਪੇ ਦੇਖੈ ਹਰਿ ਆਪੇ ਰਚਨੁ ਰਚਾਇਆ ॥ ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਜੋ ਨਰੁ ਖੇਲੈ ਸੋ ਜਿਣਿ ਬਾਜੀ ਘਰਿ ਆਇਆ ॥੪॥੧॥੧੯॥
BASANT, FIFTH MEHL, SECOND HOUSE, HINDOL:
ONE UNIVERSAL CREATOR GOD. BY THE GRACE OF THE TRUE GURU:
Come and join together, O my Siblings of Destiny; dispel your sense of duality and let yourselves be lovingly absorbed in the Lord. Let yourselves be joined to the Name of the Lord; become Gurmukh, spread out your mat, and sit down. || 1 || In this way, throw the dice, O brothers. As Gurmukh, chant the Naam, the Name of the Lord, day and night. At the very last moment, you shall not have to suffer in pain. || 1 || Pause || Let righteous actions be your gameboard, and let the truth be your dice. Conquer sexual desire, anger, greed and worldly attachment; only such a game as this is dear to the Lord. || 2 || Rise in the early hours of the morning, and take your cleansing bath. Before you go to bed at night, remember to worship the Lord. My True Guru will assist you, even on your most difficult moves; you shall reach your true home in celestial peace and poise. || 3 || The Lord Himself plays, and He Himself watches; the Lord Himself created the creation. O servant Nanak, that person who plays this game as Gurmukh, wins the game of life, and returns to his true home. || 4 || 1 || 19 ||
Kabir ji on Ang 1159 says:
ਇਹੀ ਤੇਰਾ ਅਉਸਰੁ ਇਹ ਤੇਰੀ ਬਾਰ ॥ ਘਟ ਭੀਤਰਿ ਤੂ ਦੇਖੁ ਬਿਚਾਰਿ ॥ ਕਹਤ ਕਬੀਰੁ ਜੀਤਿ ਕੈ ਹਾਰਿ ॥ ਬਹੁ ਬਿਧਿ ਕਹਿਓ ਪੁਕਾਰਿ ਪੁਕਾਰਿ ॥੫॥੧॥੯॥
This is your chance, and this is your time. Look deep into your own heart, and reflect on this. Says Kabeer, you can win or lose. In so many ways, I have proclaimed this out loud. || 5 || 1 || 9 ||
So Veer ji, It is your life and a chance given to you by God. Win or Lose. Choice is yours. Do not blame God later.
Daas
Kawaljit Singh
Archived_Member16
SPNer
It's a 'black day', Sikh clerics slam ruling on gay sex
It's a 'black day', Sikh clerics slam ruling on gay sex
Chandigarh, July 2 : Strongly criticising a Delhi High decriminalising homosexuality, Sikh clergy and religious leaders in Punjab Thursday called the ruling a 'black day' for mankind.
Avtar Singh Makkar, president of Shiromani Gurdwara Prabandhak Committee (SGPC), the apex Sikh body, told IANS: 'We are shocked on this decision of the court and directly reject its ruling. There is no need of giving a second thought to it as no religion on this earth allows such kind of disgraceful thing to prevail.'
'It is unlawful and takes man on the path that would divert him away from God,' he added.
A member of radical Sikh group Dal Khalsa said on condition of anonymity: 'This day should be remembered as a 'black day' in the history of mankind. We are unable to understand that how our judiciary can push the whole humanity towards deterioration, just to make a handful of eccentric and wayward individuals happy.
Members of SGPC, which manages the affairs of Sikh shrines around the world, have strongly condemned the court ruling.
Hardeep Singh, a SGPC member, said: 'This decision of the court is the testimony of the fact that despite achieving so many landmarks we are still under the clutches of westerners. It is really sad that we are ruining our values and beliefs by blindly following other people.
'This will destroy the dignity of civilised society and the future of our youngsters.'
Akal Takht, the highest temporal seat of Sikhs, is also expected to call an emergency in the state to discuss this issue.
'This verdict of the Delhi High Court is clearly against the teachings of Guru Granth Sahib that guides us in every situation, right from our birth till death,' Giani Gurbachan Singh, head priest of Akal Takht, told IANS.
'It is also against the law of nature. We strongly condemn this verdict, and appeal to the central government and judiciary to rethink the decision. We also appeal to Sikh community to boycott this unacceptable ruling.'
In a judgement Thursday Delhi High Court struck down section 377 of the Indian Penal Code (IPC) that terms homosexuality a criminal act.
--- IANS
It's a 'black day', Sikh clerics slam ruling on gay sex
Chandigarh, July 2 : Strongly criticising a Delhi High decriminalising homosexuality, Sikh clergy and religious leaders in Punjab Thursday called the ruling a 'black day' for mankind.
Avtar Singh Makkar, president of Shiromani Gurdwara Prabandhak Committee (SGPC), the apex Sikh body, told IANS: 'We are shocked on this decision of the court and directly reject its ruling. There is no need of giving a second thought to it as no religion on this earth allows such kind of disgraceful thing to prevail.'
'It is unlawful and takes man on the path that would divert him away from God,' he added.
A member of radical Sikh group Dal Khalsa said on condition of anonymity: 'This day should be remembered as a 'black day' in the history of mankind. We are unable to understand that how our judiciary can push the whole humanity towards deterioration, just to make a handful of eccentric and wayward individuals happy.
Members of SGPC, which manages the affairs of Sikh shrines around the world, have strongly condemned the court ruling.
Hardeep Singh, a SGPC member, said: 'This decision of the court is the testimony of the fact that despite achieving so many landmarks we are still under the clutches of westerners. It is really sad that we are ruining our values and beliefs by blindly following other people.
'This will destroy the dignity of civilised society and the future of our youngsters.'
Akal Takht, the highest temporal seat of Sikhs, is also expected to call an emergency in the state to discuss this issue.
'This verdict of the Delhi High Court is clearly against the teachings of Guru Granth Sahib that guides us in every situation, right from our birth till death,' Giani Gurbachan Singh, head priest of Akal Takht, told IANS.
'It is also against the law of nature. We strongly condemn this verdict, and appeal to the central government and judiciary to rethink the decision. We also appeal to Sikh community to boycott this unacceptable ruling.'
In a judgement Thursday Delhi High Court struck down section 377 of the Indian Penal Code (IPC) that terms homosexuality a criminal act.
--- IANS
Re: It's a 'black day', Sikh clerics slam ruling on gay sex
Parochial minded people playing Ik Ong Kaar and I do not mean the Court. Tsk Tsk.
Parochial minded people playing Ik Ong Kaar and I do not mean the Court. Tsk Tsk.
Archived_Member16
SPNer
Re: It's a 'black day', Sikh clerics slam ruling on gay sex
source: EDITORIAL COMMENT | Victory For Choice - Editorial - Opinion - The Times of India
EDITORIAL - TIMES OF INDIA
Victory For Choice
3 Jul 2009, 0000 hrs IST
In a landmark judgement, the capital's highest court has struck down an archaic provision of the Indian Penal Code (IPC) which criminalises homosexuality. It has ruled that Section 377, in so far as it penalises gay sex between consenting adults, was in violation of fundamental rights. In effect, this means that gays, lesbians, bisexuals and transgenders cannot be hauled up anymore in the capital if they are adults, and engage in consensual sex. This is a welcome step forward. The criminalisation of homosexuality is a relic of the past, introduced by the British in 1861. By legalising homosexuality, the Delhi high court has restored the personal freedom and rights of homosexuals, guaranteed to them by the Indian Constitution.
Over the past few days, there has been a renewed debate over Sec 377. When law minister Veerappa Moily recently suggested that Sec 377 could be one of the many outdated laws that needed review, critics and advocates of this law were galvanised. The government was exhorted to give the anachronistic law a burial and usher in an era of greater individual rights. We have repeatedly urged the government in these columns to stop governing our personal lives, and that includes matters of sexual choice.
However, critics of homosexuality - some religious heads as well as self-appointed advocates of 'Indian culture' - kicked up a fuss. Their arguments - that homosexuality is unnatural, against Indian tradition, and that legalising it would lead to a spurt in HIV/AIDS cases - are neither scientific nor logical. If they wish they can exhort their followers to adopt certain sexual preferences, but they cannot argue that alternative preferences be outlawed by the IPC. One set of critics also argued that Sec 377 does not deal with adult homosexuality alone, which is a fact. The law provides cover against child abuse as well. However, we have other laws, like the one governing rape, which could be amended to deal with child abuse and rape committed against men.
As of now, this ruling is effective in Delhi alone. Since Sec 377 is on the concurrent list, states have a say in amendment or repeal of this law. However, this historic ruling could act as a catalyst, encouraging our legislators to shed their blinkers and take a more progressive view on the issue. In 21st century India, it is perverse to penalise adults for their sexual choices.
source: EDITORIAL COMMENT | Victory For Choice - Editorial - Opinion - The Times of India
EDITORIAL - TIMES OF INDIA
Victory For Choice
3 Jul 2009, 0000 hrs IST
In a landmark judgement, the capital's highest court has struck down an archaic provision of the Indian Penal Code (IPC) which criminalises homosexuality. It has ruled that Section 377, in so far as it penalises gay sex between consenting adults, was in violation of fundamental rights. In effect, this means that gays, lesbians, bisexuals and transgenders cannot be hauled up anymore in the capital if they are adults, and engage in consensual sex. This is a welcome step forward. The criminalisation of homosexuality is a relic of the past, introduced by the British in 1861. By legalising homosexuality, the Delhi high court has restored the personal freedom and rights of homosexuals, guaranteed to them by the Indian Constitution.
Over the past few days, there has been a renewed debate over Sec 377. When law minister Veerappa Moily recently suggested that Sec 377 could be one of the many outdated laws that needed review, critics and advocates of this law were galvanised. The government was exhorted to give the anachronistic law a burial and usher in an era of greater individual rights. We have repeatedly urged the government in these columns to stop governing our personal lives, and that includes matters of sexual choice.
However, critics of homosexuality - some religious heads as well as self-appointed advocates of 'Indian culture' - kicked up a fuss. Their arguments - that homosexuality is unnatural, against Indian tradition, and that legalising it would lead to a spurt in HIV/AIDS cases - are neither scientific nor logical. If they wish they can exhort their followers to adopt certain sexual preferences, but they cannot argue that alternative preferences be outlawed by the IPC. One set of critics also argued that Sec 377 does not deal with adult homosexuality alone, which is a fact. The law provides cover against child abuse as well. However, we have other laws, like the one governing rape, which could be amended to deal with child abuse and rape committed against men.
As of now, this ruling is effective in Delhi alone. Since Sec 377 is on the concurrent list, states have a say in amendment or repeal of this law. However, this historic ruling could act as a catalyst, encouraging our legislators to shed their blinkers and take a more progressive view on the issue. In 21st century India, it is perverse to penalise adults for their sexual choices.
Look the key issue is Kaam.
If Homosexuality is based on Kaam, then it is against Sikhi.
The argument used is that Homosexual have sex for gratification and not reproduction. If that is the case then all heterosexual couples should only have sex specifically to crate children.
Fact is, if sex is part of a loving relationship as part of a couple then I see nothing wrong with that.
Sikh clergy need to wise up and not be so narrow minded.
If Homosexuality is based on Kaam, then it is against Sikhi.
The argument used is that Homosexual have sex for gratification and not reproduction. If that is the case then all heterosexual couples should only have sex specifically to crate children.
Fact is, if sex is part of a loving relationship as part of a couple then I see nothing wrong with that.
Sikh clergy need to wise up and not be so narrow minded.
Tejindersinghdelhi
SPNer
- Jun 1, 2009
- 16
- 34
I would restrict my view on sexuality as per Sikh School of Thought.
In Sikhism, sexuality is seen as a husband wife relationship to further human race. Gurbani does not permit sexual indulgence leading to perversion of mind which is always atuned to sex in mind. Since Kam is one of the five vices prohibited by Sikh Gurus in Guru Granth Sahib and also it advocates relationship with your wife only " Eka Nari Jati hai" Treat other women as your daughters and sisters only. To mind mind, bound by the dictates of Sikh Rehat Maryada, sexuality in the form of homo, lisbians and trisexuallity are best avoided. Moreover they are unnatural form of sex. Even animals do not indulge in such form of sexes, though they do sex with more than one female partner.
Regards,
tejinderisnghdelhi.
In Sikhism, sexuality is seen as a husband wife relationship to further human race. Gurbani does not permit sexual indulgence leading to perversion of mind which is always atuned to sex in mind. Since Kam is one of the five vices prohibited by Sikh Gurus in Guru Granth Sahib and also it advocates relationship with your wife only " Eka Nari Jati hai" Treat other women as your daughters and sisters only. To mind mind, bound by the dictates of Sikh Rehat Maryada, sexuality in the form of homo, lisbians and trisexuallity are best avoided. Moreover they are unnatural form of sex. Even animals do not indulge in such form of sexes, though they do sex with more than one female partner.
Regards,
tejinderisnghdelhi.
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