Sikhism And Homosexuality
- Thread starter Kandola
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CaramelChocolate
SPNer
a perfect example of holier than thou behaviour
greenjuice
SPNer
- Jun 5, 2009
- 29
- 5
where does the SGGS forbid "holier than thou behaviour"?
i would like to know.
i would like to know.
Hum nahin chnaggeh..bura nahin koie...
Every SINGLE TUK of SGGS..the WRITER is full of UTTER HUMILITY...be it the Sikh Gurus, the Bhagts or the Bhatts...
NOT a Single tuk declaring I am Holier than THOU...in fcat the DIRECT OPPOSITE.
IF we can see the Elephant staring in front of our own face..then we can comment on a mosquito on anothers nose
BUT its usually the other way around..we can see the tiny FLEA a mile away..but miss the elephant touching our nose..:advocate:
greenjuice
SPNer
- Jun 5, 2009
- 29
- 5
Satgur Bajhon Gur Nahi Koee Nigurey Kaa Hai Naao Bura (pg. 435)
Without the True Guru (i.e. Guru Nanak), there is not another Guru. And one without the Guru is known as evil.
Gurmantar-Heenus Jo Praani Dhrigant Janam Bharashtneh. Kookreh Sookreh Gardheh Kaakeh Sarpaneh Tul Khaieh (pg. 1356-1357)
One who is without the Gurmantra, is the most accursed, and contaminated is his life. He is like a dog, a swine, an ***, a crow a snake, and a blockhead.
Saakat Besuva Poot Ninaam (pg 1239)
The infidel is nameless like a prostitute's son.
Manmukh Naam Na Jannani, Vinn Naavey Pat Jaaey... Vishta Kay Keerray Pavey Wich Vishta Se Vishta Mahe Samaaye(pg. 28)
The egocentrics know not the Naam, and without Naam lose their honor... They are worms of excrement, fall in excrement, and get absorbed in excrement.
Choraan, Jaaran, Randiaan, Kuttaneeya Di Baan. Vedinaa Ki Dosti Vedlnaa Ka Khaann Sifti Saar Naa Jannani, Sada Vasey Saitaan (pg. 790)
It is the habit of thieves, adulterers, prostitutes, and pimps that they contract friendship with the irreligious or faithless and eat their food; they know not the worth of God's praise and Satan ever abides within them.
Without the True Guru (i.e. Guru Nanak), there is not another Guru. And one without the Guru is known as evil.
Gurmantar-Heenus Jo Praani Dhrigant Janam Bharashtneh. Kookreh Sookreh Gardheh Kaakeh Sarpaneh Tul Khaieh (pg. 1356-1357)
One who is without the Gurmantra, is the most accursed, and contaminated is his life. He is like a dog, a swine, an ***, a crow a snake, and a blockhead.
Saakat Besuva Poot Ninaam (pg 1239)
The infidel is nameless like a prostitute's son.
Manmukh Naam Na Jannani, Vinn Naavey Pat Jaaey... Vishta Kay Keerray Pavey Wich Vishta Se Vishta Mahe Samaaye(pg. 28)
The egocentrics know not the Naam, and without Naam lose their honor... They are worms of excrement, fall in excrement, and get absorbed in excrement.
Choraan, Jaaran, Randiaan, Kuttaneeya Di Baan. Vedinaa Ki Dosti Vedlnaa Ka Khaann Sifti Saar Naa Jannani, Sada Vasey Saitaan (pg. 790)
It is the habit of thieves, adulterers, prostitutes, and pimps that they contract friendship with the irreligious or faithless and eat their food; they know not the worth of God's praise and Satan ever abides within them.
My concept is based on spending most of my life living in England. That is 30+ years. In that time I have met gay teachers, many gay work collegues and have had neighbours who are homosexual. As a partial outsider I can say that by and large gayness is accepted in many parts of London at least. Lets talk culturally also. Gay characters (I would describe it as the mincer stereotype) have played a central role in British comedy for a long as I have been alive and probably a lot longer. From the "Carry on" movies, to "Are you being served" going to present day "LIttle Britain" homosexuality has been implicitly accepted for decades. A gay man even now has his own talk show, I think his name is Gary or Graham Norton. I am not saying gays are never oppressed but I contest your notion that homosexuality is not generally socially accepted in Britain today. Maybe it depends on where you are from in the UK but to have a gay couple living nearby, see gay couples when dining in restuarants is not uncommon these days.
Like I said before I am not say ing that all is rosey for gay folk. I also disagree that white hetrosexual men (esp. WASPs) are not keen to accept homosexuals. They more than any other people have been at the forefront of gay rights.
Anyone suggesting Christianity is a strong influence in England is either lying or seriously delusional. In America yes, but NO WAY here. But I do get your point about the states. But even there the issue is regional, compare San Francisco to Alabama for instance.
Fair point but in this case I believe the law here reflects general feeling amongst white Brits.
I disagree, I think they are actually taking onboard further British/western concepts by the move.
By this I mean that many western states use broad concepts as planks to try and beat other nations with. In my opinion they are playing to a stereotype of western civilisation and "other" savagery/barbarity.
The usual planks are womens rights, democracy and gay rights. Some state governments will exploit these and (in my opinion) feign concern about the lack of these in other nations. But the real reasons behind their apparent concern is usually political/cultural point scoring. I think Iraq is a good example. With various concerns being aired all of a sudden (i.e. WMD transmuting to democracy), whilst the real reasons behind the show was greed for oil resources.
So whilst people in England may rejoice in the annoucement in India, please also remember that other countries are sticking their noses in places they shouldn't and causing lots of death there. That is the hypocrisy of the west, on one hand they fight for gay rights on the other they turn a blind eye to, or are complicit in the deaths of nonwhite men all over the globe.
Anyway - this is too much for a Saturday afternoon.
Tejwant ji
Just because they can extort money from the people it does not mean That khusra's are accepted.Can they do any other job apart from taking money from people or prostituition
are they accepted in govt services,can they join private sector? As far as lower caste are concerned according to govt they can do any job and even jobs are reserved for them.If the way khusra's are treated is called acceptance then what is non acceptance?
Kds ji,
Guru Fateh.
Taking your argument a bit further, if they extort money, then it is a crime. Why can't they be prosecuted for their crimes and sent to jail? Why does not the Indian Govt do that?
And talking about prostitution, is that also a western influence as homosexuality is in India according to your opinion?
Tejwant Singh
Yes Tejwant ji Its a crime .But tell me how many times criminals in India get punished,If you call police when they are asking for money then police is also going to tell you that give them some money.Btw I am more concerned with the crime they do and that is castration as presence of such large numbers in any society is abnormal.I read one report that when 100 hijra's are interviewed out of them 76 said that they were castrated.
And I don't beleive that prostituition is western.
Kds ji,
Guru Fateh.
All you are saying is that the khusras have a lot of power.That was exactly my point.They openly commit crimes and have been left unpunished for hundreds of years. They extort money from people of all walks of life and openly castrate people, yet no one raises a finger against them, especially the Govt. Where is KPS Gill when you need him?
We have riots against the religious minorities in India all the times but no riots against the khusras by any one, which shows their prowess and power.
Tejwant Singh.
I am not saying khusra's are so powerful.They have the type of power which Indian culture have provided them.There is myth associated with them that there blessings are very powerful and god hear their prayers quickly and that's why this tradition of givng them money was developed.Now this tradition is so strong that you have to give them money whether you want it or not.Also the money they demand is on the occassion of happiness and according to the status of family.They don't ask poor families to give them 10,000 rupees if son is born but they can much more than that from a rich family.
As far as castration is concerned yes it is bitter truth.But in a billion plus population
many children go missing so its not difficuilt for them to get some boys and castrate them but on the other hand majority of times they don't kidnap children from people
and openly castrate them.so khusra's are tolerated as long as they remaiin in limit O/W
dOn't expect people not to attack them or remain peaceful towards them
Can someone answer one question. Does the soul have a gender?
Dear Randip Ji,
Soul doesn not have a gender IMHO if there is one (which is another subject posted by me on the forum) but in Sikh thought to explain its modes operandi of spiritual growth and final union with Akal Purkh by following the tools contained in Sabd Guru, it has been considered as a bride and Ekankar as hasband.
Cordially,
Virinder
Soul doesn not have a gender IMHO if there is one (which is another subject posted by me on the forum) but in Sikh thought to explain its modes operandi of spiritual growth and final union with Akal Purkh by following the tools contained in Sabd Guru, it has been considered as a bride and Ekankar as hasband.
Cordially,
Virinder
Ok Soul does not have a gender.
My wife's and my union was created by God? Yes? We are in effect soul mates?
Say in our next lives we are both men in gender yet we recognise that we are soul mates. What then?
My wife's and my union was created by God? Yes? We are in effect soul mates?
Say in our next lives we are both men in gender yet we recognise that we are soul mates. What then?
LOL Is there any way one can truly recognise who is His/her true soul mate?
There are people who fell in love and say that they are true soul mate of each other and will die if separated and after some time of marriage they divorce each other by saying that
they can't live with each other
Anyway Randip ji there are no answers to Ifs because I can also attach 100 of Ifs in the situation if you and your wife are Man and woman in next life and recognise each other but still due to circumstances you cannot be together
Soul mate;
The word Soul Mate is a misnomer as no two souls are alike. The term Soul Mates means many things, which are consciences that you have experienced with in past, parallel or future lifetimes. They can also be aspects of your conscience experiencing at this time in another body. We are all having multidimensional beings - your conscience having experiences, in many realities, at the same time. As we all evolve from the same source of consciousness creation - we could say that we are all souls’ mates in a manner of speaking. It could be said that two persons compatible with each other in disposition, point of view, or sensitivity may be soul mates. You feel closer to certain persons, because you have attracted them into your life as they are on the same frequency as you or because you want to work out issues with them. There is a special bond between such individuals like unconditional love, respect for each other, bringing out the best in each other with complete compatibility.
Soul mate thinking/proposition is living in a world of fantasy. It is dreamt but not found in the present world except in the final spiritual union with Akal Purkh as expressed by Guru Amardas in Raag Suhi; they are not said to be husband and wife, who merely sit together. They alone are called husband and wife, who have one light in two bodies.
In actual reality IMHO soul mate is a bunch of beans. It only works till the man says “I Do”. In a second after that bride wants to change her soul mate in to soul mate, so he has to like what she likes period-term used as henpecked.
Spiritually marriage usually means death and absorption of the soul in to the Supreme Conscience, which is the real soul mate. In this world it is only give and take to make the marriage happy, which is not very commonly found. In case bride is unhappy then she thinks as described by Sheikh Farid Ji; when she is a virgin, she is full of desire; but when she is married, and then her troubles begin again. Farid, she has this one regret, that she cannot be a virgin again.
It could be said that soul mate is a poetical description of a happy couple, only to be obtained with spiritual growth and neither through internet, nor match making and even not by love affair.
Guru Amardas commented on the question of his wife (Mansa Devi) to find a boy for their daughter Bibi Bhani like Ramdas (then a Sevadar and became 4rth Guru later), to which he responded that there are no two persons alike and he is the only one like him in the world.
A soul mate is one whose lock and keys fit one another. Each feels safe to open each other’s locks with their own keys with complete trust. They honestly are in total and unconditional love with out any pretensions. Each shares deepest longings, sense of direction and makes life come to life. In reality it is difficult to come by and very rare as is evident from the following hymn of Guru Amardas in Raag Maru; Seek and find those who are imbued with Truth; they are so rare in this world.Meeting with them, one's face becomes radiant and bright, chanting the Name of the Akal Purkh.
Virinder
The word Soul Mate is a misnomer as no two souls are alike. The term Soul Mates means many things, which are consciences that you have experienced with in past, parallel or future lifetimes. They can also be aspects of your conscience experiencing at this time in another body. We are all having multidimensional beings - your conscience having experiences, in many realities, at the same time. As we all evolve from the same source of consciousness creation - we could say that we are all souls’ mates in a manner of speaking. It could be said that two persons compatible with each other in disposition, point of view, or sensitivity may be soul mates. You feel closer to certain persons, because you have attracted them into your life as they are on the same frequency as you or because you want to work out issues with them. There is a special bond between such individuals like unconditional love, respect for each other, bringing out the best in each other with complete compatibility.
Soul mate thinking/proposition is living in a world of fantasy. It is dreamt but not found in the present world except in the final spiritual union with Akal Purkh as expressed by Guru Amardas in Raag Suhi; they are not said to be husband and wife, who merely sit together. They alone are called husband and wife, who have one light in two bodies.
In actual reality IMHO soul mate is a bunch of beans. It only works till the man says “I Do”. In a second after that bride wants to change her soul mate in to soul mate, so he has to like what she likes period-term used as henpecked.
Spiritually marriage usually means death and absorption of the soul in to the Supreme Conscience, which is the real soul mate. In this world it is only give and take to make the marriage happy, which is not very commonly found. In case bride is unhappy then she thinks as described by Sheikh Farid Ji; when she is a virgin, she is full of desire; but when she is married, and then her troubles begin again. Farid, she has this one regret, that she cannot be a virgin again.
It could be said that soul mate is a poetical description of a happy couple, only to be obtained with spiritual growth and neither through internet, nor match making and even not by love affair.
Guru Amardas commented on the question of his wife (Mansa Devi) to find a boy for their daughter Bibi Bhani like Ramdas (then a Sevadar and became 4rth Guru later), to which he responded that there are no two persons alike and he is the only one like him in the world.
A soul mate is one whose lock and keys fit one another. Each feels safe to open each other’s locks with their own keys with complete trust. They honestly are in total and unconditional love with out any pretensions. Each shares deepest longings, sense of direction and makes life come to life. In reality it is difficult to come by and very rare as is evident from the following hymn of Guru Amardas in Raag Maru; Seek and find those who are imbued with Truth; they are so rare in this world.Meeting with them, one's face becomes radiant and bright, chanting the Name of the Akal Purkh.
Virinder
Randip Singh ji,
Guru Fateh.
In my opinion, soul is nothing but a clump of energy, hence genderless, formless.
Tejwant Singh
LOL Benedictine monks would like these questions big time!
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