Archived_Member16
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India Sikhs' Conversion To Christianity At Peak In Punjab!
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Manni Singh 85
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- Feb 28, 2012
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When did that start?
- Aug 28, 2010
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Only GuRu can save Sikhs from this Situation.
Let us do Ardaasi only.
Prakash.S.Bagga
Let us do Ardaasi only.
Prakash.S.Bagga
- Aug 28, 2010
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You may be right.When money becomes PRIME motto in ones life any thing can happen.
Prakash.s.Bagga
I blame one organisation for this THE SGPC!!!
- Aug 28, 2010
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But Sikhs can never get rid of SGPC.
So this allegation is poinless in my opinion.
Prakash.S.Bagga
Christians and Muslims believe in converting others to their faith. It is a part of religion. Due to this reason today we see maximum people belonging to these faiths.
Converting others to Sikhism is not important to Sikhs. But when others seek to convert us we face clear danger of losing our people.
This may seem far fetched but many religions in the past have wiped out, Zoroastrianism being an example.
Hopefully these incidents of conversion will jolt Sikhs to start another Singh Sabha movement.
Converting others to Sikhism is not important to Sikhs. But when others seek to convert us we face clear danger of losing our people.
This may seem far fetched but many religions in the past have wiped out, Zoroastrianism being an example.
Hopefully these incidents of conversion will jolt Sikhs to start another Singh Sabha movement.
My dear brother
Sikhism is a sublime religion with a truly rich theology, philosophy and understanding of human nature. Its teachings, back in the 1400s, were very much ahead of their time. The Adi Granth has much to teach humanity, particularly Westerners such as myself.
Given this, I firmly believe that Sikhism will continue to flourish and thrive as a religion. All it needs, is for the Guru Granth Sahib to be made more readily available in other languages, such as English and to inculturate other cultures outside the Punjab.
There are so many Westerners who are spiritually starved, choking under materialism and hungry for Eastern wisdom. Buddhism and Hinduism have thus, in this manner, attracted many Westerners who - while most have not converted en masse - have at least been strongly influenced by it. The number of books on Buddhism and Hinduism in a bookstore in the UK or on Amazon, is astounding.
For some reason, the access to Sikhism is not as readily available and yet the message of Sikhism is closer to the native religious tradition of the West (Christianity) than Hinduism or Buddhism - the former of which suffers from an obscuration of its salient and beautiful message in the Upanishads (that under the layers of ego and false self lies Atman, the Self, God who is in all beings) with the caste system, idols, polytheistic tendencies and the latter suffers obscuration of its wonderful central message of the Four Noble Truths and the Noble Eightfold Path with its denial of a creator God and its strongly ascetic bent - to the extent that it is very rarely positive about this life, encouraging rather renunciation of this life to achieve nirvana. Sikhism on the other hand is monotheistic, positive about this life and of God's presence in everything, in creation and is a religion that does not encourage nor require ascetism but is rather focused on following the will of God in daily life, in the world and not out of it. It is clearly the Eastern religion that Westerners would be most receptive too, I feel, if only it were made more available.
The message of Sikhism cannot fail to inspire. However it needs to be made more readily available, I think.
BTW Can anyone provide me with a translation of at least some of the above?
Worry not my brothers.
I oppose all forms of proselytization. Religious conversion must come from within, free from all coercion whether physical or verbal and be the fruitful outpouring of a sincere and independent search for truth, which first requires an openness to truth and a willingness to hold too whatever truth one finds rather than follow the whims of our passions.
Much love
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Vouthon
The above article states that Christian missionaries are converting backward and poor Sikhs in Punjab by offering them money.
Almost a year back I saw a video on youtube about a baptized Sikh who converted to Christianity. He said that he was very poor. When he fell sick no one in the village came forward to help him. At that time Christian missionaries helped him, arranged for his children's free education in convent school and his free treatment in a mission hospital.All he was asked in return was to accept Jesus Christ as his savior. And indeed he was saved.
This is not the only incident where missionaries have been accused of using money to convert people.
In my view every person has a right to seek a better life for himself. Some people go the extent of converting for this purpose. But the question is what does a missionary or a maulvi gain by converting people when the core reason for converting was not religion but financial benefits?
Is head count that important to religions!
The above article states that Christian missionaries are converting backward and poor Sikhs in Punjab by offering them money.
Almost a year back I saw a video on youtube about a baptized Sikh who converted to Christianity. He said that he was very poor. When he fell sick no one in the village came forward to help him. At that time Christian missionaries helped him, arranged for his children's free education in convent school and his free treatment in a mission hospital.All he was asked in return was to accept Jesus Christ as his savior. And indeed he was saved.
This is not the only incident where missionaries have been accused of using money to convert people.
In my view every person has a right to seek a better life for himself. Some people go the extent of converting for this purpose. But the question is what does a missionary or a maulvi gain by converting people when the core reason for converting was not religion but financial benefits?
Is head count that important to religions!
My dear brother Searching kaurhug
Thank you for the translation!
Jesus said, "Freely you received, freely give...without wanting anything in return". To provide people with health care, food, clothing and education simply to convert them to your faith, is not only intolerant, it is not loving. One should care about all people and serve the needs of all human beings irrespective of their faith, gender, social class/caste or ethnicity. Love is all-encompassing, it asks for nothing in return, except the joy of helping another human life.
Head count is not what's important. What's important is free-willed embracing of the truth that one has freely discovered and freely attained. If someone converts simply for material goods like bread and water, clothing, health care or education then he is not a true believer in the gospel for he has been bribed and thus compelled, meaning that his adherence to the faith is only surface-deep. Such conversion would be as bad for Christianity as it would be for Sikhism.
The popes made this pretty clear in bulls from many, many centuries ago (which were binding in Church Canon Law):
"...We decree moreover that no Christian shall compel them [non-Christians] or any one of their group to come to baptism unwillingly. But if any one of them shall take refuge of his own accord with Christians, because of conviction, then, after his intention will have been manifest, he shall be made a Christian without any intrigue. For, indeed, that person who is known to have come to Christian baptism not freely, but unwillingly, is not believed to posses the Christian faith..."
- Blessed Pope Gregory X, 1272
The Early Fathers of the Church wrote:
"It is a fundamental human right, a privilege of nature, that every man should worship according to his own convictions. One man’s religion neither harms nor helps another man. It is not the nature of religion to compel religion. Religion ought to be adopted voluntarily and not by force"
- Tertullian (160 – c. 225) Church Father, Ad Scapulam 2
"Religion being a matter of the will, it cannot be forced on anyone. In this matter it is better to employ words than blows...Religion is the one field in which freedom has pitched her tent, for religion is, first and foremost, a matter of free will, and no man can be forced under compulsion to adore what he has no will to adore...Of what use is cruelty? What has the rack to do with piety?... For nothing is so intrinsically a matter of free will as religion"
- Lactantius (240 – ca. 320), Church Father, Divine Institutes
What kind of Christians are these missionaries who are luring Sikhs from their faith?
I believe that Blessed Mother Teresa spoke the truth when she said:
"...There is only one God and He is God to all; therefore it is important that everyone is seen as equal before God. I’ve always said we should help a Hindu become a better Hindu, a Muslim become a better Muslim, a Catholic become a better Catholic. We believe our work should be our example to people. We have among us 475 souls - 30 families are Catholics and the rest are all Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs—all different religions. But they all come to our prayers...I believe that God has created each soul, that that soul belongs to God, and that each soul has to find God in its own lifetime and enter into his life. That is what is important. All of us need to seek God and find Him...Religion is not something that you and I can dictate. Religion is the worship of God, and therefore it is a matter of conscience. Each one of us must decide how we are going to worship. In my case, the religion that I live and practice is Roman Catholicism. It is my life, my joy, and the greatest proof of God’s love for me. I cannot force anyone to accept my religion---just as no man, no law, and no government can legally demand that anyone reject a religion that promises them peace, joy, and love. I love all religions... If people become better Hindus, better Muslims, better Buddhists by our acts of love, then there is something else growing there. They come closer to God...Our purpose is to take God and His love to the poorest of the poor, irrespective of their ethnic origin or the faith they profess. Our discernment of aid is not the belief but the necessity. In our work we bear witness to the love of God’s presence and if Catholics, Protestants, Buddhists or agnostics become for this reason better men---simply better---we will be satisfied..."
- Blessed Mother Teresa of Calcutta (1910 – 1997)
Much love kaurhug
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TigerStyleZ
SPNer
#My dear brother
Sikhism is a sublime religion with a truly rich theology, philosophy and understanding of human nature. Its teachings, back in the 1400s, were very much ahead of their time. The Adi Granth has much to teach humanity, particularly Westerners such as myself.
Given this, I firmly believe that Sikhism will continue to flourish and thrive as a religion. All it needs, is for the Guru Granth Sahib to be made more readily available in other languages, such as English and to inculturate other cultures outside the Punjab.
There are so many Westerners who are spiritually starved, choking under materialism and hungry for Eastern wisdom. Buddhism and Hinduism have thus, in this manner, attracted many Westerners who - while most have not converted en masse - have at least been strongly influenced by it. The number of books on Buddhism and Hinduism in a bookstore in the UK or on Amazon, is astounding.
For some reason, the access to Sikhism is not as readily available and yet the message of Sikhism is closer to the native religious tradition of the West (Christianity) than Hinduism or Buddhism - the former of which suffers from an obscuration of its salient and beautiful message in the Upanishads (that under the layers of ego and false self lies Atman, the Self, God who is in all beings) with the caste system, idols, polytheistic tendencies and the latter suffers obscuration of its wonderful central message of the Four Noble Truths and the Noble Eightfold Path with its denial of a creator God and its strongly ascetic bent - to the extent that it is very rarely positive about this life, encouraging rather renunciation of this life to achieve nirvana. Sikhism on the other hand is monotheistic, positive about this life and of God's presence in everything, in creation and is a religion that does not encourage nor require ascetism but is rather focused on following the will of God in daily life, in the world and not out of it. It is clearly the Eastern religion that Westerners would be most receptive too, I feel, if only it were made more available.
The message of Sikhism cannot fail to inspire. However it needs to be made more readily available, I think.
BTW Can anyone provide me with a translation of at least some of the above?
Worry not my brothers.
I oppose all forms of proselytization. Religious conversion must come from within, free from all coercion whether physical or verbal and be the fruitful outpouring of a sincere and independent search for truth, which first requires an openness to truth and a willingness to hold too whatever truth one finds rather than follow the whims of our passions.
Much love
Your Post didn´t changes the fact.. there are getting more and more people out of Sikhi and thats not good! Yes we all know Shera hamsha thore honde ne, but that doest changes the fact that... There is enough english literature etc.. But although Sikhs are getting far away of Gurbani .. IT is the fail of our community... Greed and Money leading bussiness.. The" Pardans" fighthing each other etc.. "Saint Babe" who come to Europe etc, to steal money from people.. Yes we all know world is full of coruption and greed, but slowly our com is dying.
My dear brother Tiger :whatzpointkudi:
Blessings to you! I couldn't read the first post until the previous kind poster told me what it meant. So at that stage I was writing not knowing what the first post was saying. In fact I was replying more too the points raised by Searching in his post, rather than too the initial post.
I think it is atrocious what these missionaries are doing - an abuse of religion and freewill. Service to humanity should be for the sake of love for humanity itself, not only so one can change the religious beliefs of the other. That is uncharitable and manipulative.
Much love peacesignkaur
This should be a 'wake up' call for the Sikhs.
We are not helping these 'gareeb' (less fortunate) sikhs.
Their only hope is the aid from christian missionaries in return for accepting their faith.
Yes, it's not ethically correct in any sense. But why don't sikhs be the ones providing aid??????
Where does all the gurdwara golack and donations go??????
These events shouldn't bring anger towards other faiths,- BUT, should make us feel ashamed about our lack of commitment,help and unity.
There is no point blaming others, but blame ourselves and deficiency of our own charitable actions!!!
- Dec 21, 2010
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- 5,690
I personally find nothing wrong with all this. Let me explain,
When two parties come togetether and decide to do something, there are reasons on both sides.
1. Say a destitute Sikh family in need of care, necessities, and desperate is approached. The offer of help will allow for living, a future with some sense of ray of hope for the children, etc.
2. Family in 1 approached by people who beilieve in different spiritual system but are able to at practical level affect help, hope and some sense of salvation.
I believe it is a God/creator arranged union of helpless being helped even though there may be compromises in spirituality and integrity.
It is no fault of the Christians to approach and spread their beliefs.
It is an extremely sad state of affairs for the Sikh institutions that people in 1 are allowed to feel and be as vulnerable as they become. There are Billionaire Sikhs around the world doing little to help fellow Sikhs in need; there are Billions being collected and mis-appropriated through Sikh institutions, what is happening should not be a surprise but an expectation in such environment.
The strength and purity of Sikhism is to behold. If things have turned the way they should have more than half the Hindus should have become Sikhs. That is 500 million Sikhs that are not there. Incredible misfortune for a concept as glorious as any in existence in this world, Sikhism.
Sat Sri Akal.
When two parties come togetether and decide to do something, there are reasons on both sides.
1. Say a destitute Sikh family in need of care, necessities, and desperate is approached. The offer of help will allow for living, a future with some sense of ray of hope for the children, etc.
2. Family in 1 approached by people who beilieve in different spiritual system but are able to at practical level affect help, hope and some sense of salvation.
I believe it is a God/creator arranged union of helpless being helped even though there may be compromises in spirituality and integrity.
It is no fault of the Christians to approach and spread their beliefs.
It is an extremely sad state of affairs for the Sikh institutions that people in 1 are allowed to feel and be as vulnerable as they become. There are Billionaire Sikhs around the world doing little to help fellow Sikhs in need; there are Billions being collected and mis-appropriated through Sikh institutions, what is happening should not be a surprise but an expectation in such environment.
The strength and purity of Sikhism is to behold. If things have turned the way they should have more than half the Hindus should have become Sikhs. That is 500 million Sikhs that are not there. Incredible misfortune for a concept as glorious as any in existence in this world, Sikhism.
Sat Sri Akal.
My dear brother Ambarsaria mundahug
I have not read the original, but judging by the posts of others the only conscience issue I have is the thought of people helping other human beings with the intent to convert them, rather than simply loving and caring for them irrespective of their faith. It doesn't compromise the charitable deeds done to these sorry, and needy souls by the missionaries but I honestly cannot condone such proselytism. Its one thing to discuss your faith with others and extol its virtues. Its quite another to offer help to someone only if they convert to your faith. That's compulsion, is it not? And it lacks proper respect for the integrity of the human person.
In the OP article, are the Christian missionaries only helping these people if they decide to convert? If they say no are they just left? I find that disturbing in the extreme. Where is the Parable of the Good Samaritan? Where is selfless love?
I want destitute Sikh families to be helped. And I'm glad that the Christian missionaries are helping them and offering them a bright future. I just don't want them to have to give up their cherished, inherited religious beliefs and values to get that help. That's plain wrong and it means that Christian Churches will be flooded with people who don't really believe in Christianity. What these people need and want is simple human compassion - not a change in their religious status.
I find this very sad all in all out. My heart grieves motherlylove
- Dec 21, 2010
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- 5,690
Numbers are one thing and individual lives something totally different. If I am not helping someone, I will never complain about someone else helping.
It is called, " S h e e t or get off the pot". Talk is too cheap. Challenge to all, go help if you want to earn a right to complain.
Regards.
My dear brother kaurhug
Thats very true and a great point. Its very easy to be an "armchair moralist" as they say, sitting at a computer screen here in the UK, in the West.
To be out there in the midst of povery and misery, I can't imagine and I don't intend to judge, condemn or demean the work of these missionaries.
Help is help and I am glad for it, even though I will still never condone the methods used and would rather it were different.
Much love kaurhug
Is there any stat about how many Sikh are being converted to Christianity as we speak? What is the magnitude? How many Christians are there in India though? Islam already present in India..... If Christianity grew enough in that region....there will be a severe conflict between these two religions ...as its the case throughout history . . . Islam and Christianity are the largest religions but both of them are equally "evangelical" ....they both want to spread.
BaljinderS
SPNer
- Dec 29, 2011
- 171
- 251
I think TRUE conversion is when the people willingly accept the religion as their own. Any other form of conversion means nothing. Its a very empty belief, only superficial to satisfy the people who enforced the conversion.
These people can be converted from religion to another, then to another and another... like a ping pong as they don't have a solid base. I think its kind of discrediting or even disrespectful to the religion being converted to, if people have to be converted in this way. Don't you think? Is the religion that bad that people have to converted by force?? I do wonder?! If the religion actually practices the truth then people will happily convert.
We know the people converted lack education and are poor or have social problems. Its very easy to do as you please because these people are vulnerable. I wonder what does religion mean to these people? A switch they flick on and off to please others to get their reward be it financial.
Try converting a real Sikh who is in chardi kala. Real Sikhs cannot be converted, we would rather give our head then to bow down to anyone.
These people can be converted from religion to another, then to another and another... like a ping pong as they don't have a solid base. I think its kind of discrediting or even disrespectful to the religion being converted to, if people have to be converted in this way. Don't you think? Is the religion that bad that people have to converted by force?? I do wonder?! If the religion actually practices the truth then people will happily convert.
We know the people converted lack education and are poor or have social problems. Its very easy to do as you please because these people are vulnerable. I wonder what does religion mean to these people? A switch they flick on and off to please others to get their reward be it financial.
Try converting a real Sikh who is in chardi kala. Real Sikhs cannot be converted, we would rather give our head then to bow down to anyone.
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