Sikhs Reflect And Object. Who Will Cast The First Stone?

[Bhai Harbans Lal]

Well so it means when a person can gain any benefit from sikhi then he/she can declare himself/herself sikh but when nothing is available or rampaging mobs are searching for sikhs then they are not sikhs.When maharaja Ranjit singh was in power there were 5-8 million sikhs after that only 1-2 million declared themself sikhs.Even Britishers predicted that this religion ios going to end.Thanks to so called talibani,orthodox sikhs to whom people abuse daily here sikhism survived.The liberals already left the boat

Someone would elect to be a Sikh when in his or her view Sikhee offers an advantage over other choices. It will not ever be to please you or me or to meet any definition. All we have to do is to demonstrate in our own life the advantages of leading a Sikh life. If these advantages are attractive to one who is searching and observing, Sikhee will be adapted by that person. Otherwise today’s world offers numerous other choices. Your concern of what happened during and after Maharaja Ranjit Singh is a good illustration. There was no change in definition. It was a case of adopting Sikh symbol for the purpose of being counted as Sikh for a political advantage and then giving them up when that advantage disappeared. Mind you, even in those days, those who were Sikhs because of their adopting Sikhism for spirituality and love for gurbani continued to multiply even after the Sikh Raaj. The definitions are not going to attract any one but the impact of Sikhee on life will. <?"urn:fficeffice" />

 

[spnadmin]

...All we have to do is to demonstrate in our own life the advantages of leading a Sikh life. If these advantages are attractive to one who is searching and observing, Sikhee will be adapted by that person. Otherwise today’s world offers numerous other choices. Your concern of what happened during and after Maharaja Ranjit Singh is a good illustration. There was no change in definition. It was a case of adopting Sikh symbol for the purpose of being counted as Sikh for a political advantage and then giving them up when that advantage disappeared. Mind you, even in those days, those who were Sikhs because of their adopting Sikhism for spirituality and love for gurbani continued to multiply even after the Sikh Raaj. The definitions are not going to attract any one but the impact of Sikhee on life will. fficeffice" />

Bhai Harbhans Lal ji

The part of your comment that sprang off the page when I read it is in bold and in blue. Those who adopted Sikhism for its spirituality and love for gurbani continues to this very day. It is probably the major reason for conversion. It has to be. No one one converts so he/she can keep hair. Choosing to keep hair can happen whether one is a Sikh or not. Choosing to "dress as a Nihang" is not nearly enough to motivate someone to break away from one's own past and traditions, and risk possible rejection from family and friends. And it is the spirituality and gurbani that keeps one magnetized, not wanting to leave. This is not only true for converts but also from those born Sikh who re-discover the depth of their religion and move closer to the message of ShabadGuru.

It is very difficult for someone who has made a choice based on the goodness, love and compassion of all 10 Nanaks, to then make sense of the sometimes intense hostility aimed at a "Sikh" who has taken the path of less virtue. Someone who chooses the Methodist religion, remains a Methodist even when committing adultery. That person is a Methodist who has lapsed morally, but is still a Methodist. A person who chooses Sikhism, one who chooses the Shabad Guru, will probably never commit adultery, smoke, consume intoxicants, or adopt a profession at odds with Sikh values -- and yet that same person can still have a very hard time understanding the exclusionary rule.,. "You are no longer a Sikh if you" ......and accompanied by so much anger.

 

[kds1980]

Someone would elect to be a Sikh when in his or her view Sikhee offers an advantage over other choices. It will not ever be to please you or me or to meet any definition. All we have to do is to demonstrate in our own life the advantages of leading a Sikh life. If these advantages are attractive to one who is searching and observing, Sikhee will be adapted by that person. Otherwise today’s world offers numerous other choices. Your concern of what happened during and after Maharaja Ranjit Singh is a good illustration. There was no change in definition. It was a case of adopting Sikh symbol for the purpose of being counted as Sikh for a political advantage and then giving them up when that advantage disappeared. Mind you, even in those days, those who were Sikhs because of their adopting Sikhism for spirituality and love for gurbani continued to multiply even after the Sikh Raaj. The definitions are not going to attract any one but the impact of Sikhee on life will. <?"urn:fficeffice" />

Harbans lal ji

OK tell me one thing .There are plenty of hindu's who have utmost respect for Gurbani and sikh spirituality.They go to Gurdwara's more than mandirs.Recite Gurbani more than many sikhs.Yet in dark days of 1984 they did not come out to save Gurdwara's or Guru granth sahib.why? Because they only adopted spiritual element of sikhism

In sikhism Guru hargobind ji added political element along with spiritual element
so those who consider themself sikhs should adopt political element of sikhism too O/W they cannot be considered them as sikhs

 

[ugsbay]

SSA.
I have just read the list, well it looks like i have a long way to go to become a sikh by the looks of things. But i will get there, i have a lot to learn. swordfight

 

[Mai Harinder Kaur]

SSA.
I have just read the list, well it looks like i have a long way to go to become a sikh by the looks of things. But i will get there, i have a lot to learn. swordfight

Ugsbay ji!

Notice that some on that list have no votes! Much of this seems to be a matter of opinion. I'd suggest you concentrate on those with the most votes.

Better yet, study Shri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj ji , listen to a lot of kirtan, find a nice friendly gurudwara and make a lot of Sikh friends.

Sikhi, to me, is more about a particular approach to life than about a lot of rules. Once that approach is understood, the "rules" are logical and make a lot of sense. Many have found this approach "something to live for, great enough to die for." For us, it is worth the effort.

And shhhh...please don't tell anyone, this is a big secret...It's also a lot of fun.

And we all have a lot to learn.

swordfighticecreamkaur

 

[dalbirk]

Bhai Harbans Lal Ji ,
It is beyond me to comment upon something pointed out by such an esteemed authority like you . But I wholly agree with kanwardeep Ji's observation that Sikhi survived only due to TALIBANISED / RADICALISED Sikhs like the founders of Singh Sabha Movement . Why did Guru Gobind Singh Ji made the hair & kirpan mandatory , because IMHO one explanation suggests that at the time of martydom of Guru Teg Bahadur Ji out of thousands of Sikhs in Delhi at that time only Bhai Jaita & Bhai Lakhi Shah played the role of Sikhs . None of the other followers came forward because they were a part of the crowd where they could conceal their identity .Also IMHO no other religion / Movement has survived in India where there were thousands of movements but only thing surviving is BRAHMINISM . Also one more thing is there despite several attempts to revive Buddhism in India the efforts have not yielded much results Why ? Because the Brahmins are in full control of Buddhist shrines all over India with no sign to distinguish them from real Buddhists . Why Jainism was absorbed & sank without a trace because 99.99% of Jains do not follow Jainism & worship Devi Devtas instead , shrines are controlled indirectly by Brahmins . No other INDIC religion has survived from the onslaught of Brahminism in India except Sikhism because of the outward symbols prominently HAIR . Which is why the shedding of Hairs by Sikhs in Punjab is causing so much alarm , is certainly seen as the decline of Sikhism & its subsequent absorbtion into Brahminism ( Hinduism )

 

[hpannu]

Which Akal Takhat Sahib Are you talking about?
MARYADA, JATHEDAR"S, AKAALI"S, Takhat of Patna, Takhat of Nandher( HAzursahib)

BHul CHuk Maaf

BMandur Ji, there is only one Akal Takhat Sahib ! Maryada in question is Panth Parwaan Maryada ! as far as Jathedar's & Akalis - that i stated in my origional post we have to rescue Akal Takhat Sahib from them.swordfight

 

[hpannu]

Harjot Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

How would you reconcile with your above two posts which seem to contradict themselves? Let's not forget that the same Akaal Takhat gave OK and wrote editorials to many antiSikhi books which they had to ban later on.

About Sri Guru Granth Sahib, our only Guru teaches all of us who call ourselves Sikhs more than just to show humility through actions and the same message is for the honchos of the entities mentioned in my first post.

In my opinion, the word humility used in the English language under these kinds of contexts is the most arrogant word.


Sikhi, unlike any other religion is an evolving way of life which means we as Sikhs evolve with time, thanks to Sri Guru Granth Sahib, our only Guru and this evolution means to change,adapt,mold so that goodness can be bred within which can be shared with others.

I would love to hear your opinion on your two posts.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh

Tejwant Singh Ji - Mai Harinder Kaur Ji posted two questions - first was who is a SIKH ? even though we say every person is a SIKH ( like JimRinX has said in his post ) that is a very broad answer and SRM ( Sikh Rehat Maryada ) defines who is a SIKH ? that was posted by Mai Harinder Kaur Ji. I agree to that.

2nd ? raised in a different post was who is superior AKAL TAKHT or Sikh Rehat Maryada ? the answer i gave was AKAL TAKHT is superior in my eyes. I also said AKAL TAKHT is presently under the influence of Anti panthic Badal parwaar hence it is our job to free it from them. but there is no doubt in my mind about it's superiority. Now i don't think there is a contradiction because AKAL TAKHT is not defining who is a SIKH ?

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Tejwant Singh Ji - Mai Harinder Kaur Ji posted two questions - first was who is a SIKH ? even though we say every person is a SIKH ( like JimRinX has said in his post ) that is a very broad answer and SRM ( Sikh Rehat Maryada ) defines who is a SIKH ? that was posted by Mai Harinder Kaur Ji. I agree to that.

2nd ? raised in a different post was who is superior AKAL TAKHT or Sikh Rehat Maryada ? the answer i gave was AKAL TAKHT is superior in my eyes. I also said AKAL TAKHT is presently under the influence of Anti panthic Badal parwaar hence it is our job to free it from them. but there is no doubt in my mind about it's superiority. Now i don't think there is a contradiction because AKAL TAKHT is not defining who is a SIKH ?

Harjot Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

Thanks for your response.

I have a few more questions regarding your post.

1. What should the SRM be based on and does it need changes with time as our understanding of Gurbani ideals improves with the help of SGGS, our only Guru?

2. What do you mean that Akaal Takhat is not defining Sikhs? If it were not, then it would not issue Hukumnaamas as candies the way it has been doing recently? Can you please elaborate on this a bit?

3.Akaal Takhat is superior to what because the only Guru, our Guide we have is SGGS from where we should take our directions and learn from?

4. What do you have in mind to santise the Akaal Takhat which, as you rightfully said is in the hands of the politicos and has been for a very long time?

Please share your suggestions and thoughts with us.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[JimRinX]

Kanwardeep Singh ji
As a currently very persecuted Buddhist (Sikh-leaning), in America, I know what it's like to have it be demanded that I renounce my beliefs; and, though I cannot say I've ever been - or will ever likely be - hunted down, like an animal, as the Sikhs of Southern Asia and elsewhere have been before, I can relate to how you must feel; but still, giving into the temptation to drive away - or alienate - those who've not shared your struggle, or who've taken to the exits when the poo is about to collide with the rotary impeller, is to allow those who've done these things to you to WIN!
Though I haven't studied Sikhism as well as I intend to, I know that the Guru Granth Sahib contains True Dharma, and that it thus is indeed a belief for all people in all places; so I hope you can find it in yourself to forgive the wrongs done to you, in the name of bringing more Dharma - be it the teachings of Gautama, Lau Tzu, or Guru Nanak ji - into all of 'the four corners of the world'.
The World needs you, Sikhi - just as much as they need the Dalai Lama, and the various Yogic Practitioners; as achieving Unity, for the sake of the Planet, and the Human Race, are of tantamount importance, as the Oceans Acidulate, andthe Air grows ever nastier.
Open your heart - put aside the past; most of those who practice the various other 'Faiths' are too busy tearing at each other throats - in "The Name of God" - or they're awaiting some kind of Miracle to 'save them' from their own stupidity, to be bothered with these Important Things.
WE are better than that - even those who run and hide when the Hot Plates are being laid upon the fire.
Peace!ikonkaar

 

[kds1980]

put aside the past; most of those who practice the various other 'Faiths' are too busy tearing at each other throats - in "The Name of God" - or they're awaiting some kind of Miracle to 'save them' from their own stupidity, to be bothered with these Important Things.
WE are better than that - even those who run and hide when the Hot Plates are being laid upon the fire.
Peace!

I am not stuck in past,but I also don't forget reality.Sixth Guru ,Guru hargobind ji himself introduced political element in sikhism.If our Guru's wanted they could had never introduced
political element.

Jimrx ji

Do you even know how many bhakti movements were even started in India.How many survived today,how many have their independent identity? I guess very few or none.The fact is law of survival is applicable to everybody whether it is a religion,culture,race,language.

 

[spnadmin]

Kanwardeep Singh ji

It would be good if you expanded a bit more on the connection you are making between "politics" "miri piri" and the items on the poll with this thread.

Many items on the poll seem to more customary practices of Sikhs, which we consider moral or ethical. Some points could have political connection - such as being a member of a dera. Others -- well it is hard to see the politics.

For other parts of the poll, the political connection is almost impossible to see. For example dying one's beard, where is the political connection?

Smoking is specifically mentioned in Sri Guru Granth Sahib as a negative.

But would you explain how engaging in a profession that might not be consistent with Sikh values is political. For example, operating a grocery store where cigarettes and alcohol are sold? I myself am not sure how that is political?

Or perhaps even having a personal guru. Where is the connection with politics?

Admittedly we have already stipulated that Sikhism flourished during the raj of Ranjit Siingh. Yet, there were many practices during the times of Maharaja Ranjit Singh that went contrary to our present understanding of Sikh values. He trimmed his beard. He had more than one wife. Some of his wives came to Sati at his death. He had a dalliance with a dancing girl, and yes he took his punishment for that. Under his rule alcohol was consumed to excess at marriages of his underlings. His funeral included both Sikh and Hindu rites. But during that time did anyone say, You are not a Sikh if you have a concubine? or because your attitude toward alcohol is lax?

Sikhism continued in spite of polygamy, alcohol, the concubinage, Hindu observances such as sati, and more that I have not listed. The SinghSaba movement and the Rehat Maryada have given Sikhism the form it has today. But no one questions whether Ranjit Singh was a Sikh.

 

[kds1980]

Many items on the poll seem to more customary practices of Sikhs, which we consider moral or ethical. Some points could have political connection - such as being a member of a dera. Others -- well it is hard to see the politics.


For other parts of the poll, the political connection is almost impossible to see. For example dying one's beard, where is the political connection?

Smoking is specifically mentioned in Sri Guru Granth Sahib as a negative.

But would you explain how engaging in a profession that might not be consistent with Sikh values is political. For example, operating a grocery store where cigarettes and alcohol are sold? I myself am not sure how that is political?

Or perhaps even having a personal guru. Where is the connection with politics?

In the end it is upto a person how to practice and follow a religion.No other person can know whether the other person is truly following a religion or not.But on the other hand many of do's and don'ts of sikhism comes from SRM which was made by Akal takhat(political body of sikhs) so political element do comes in

Admittedly we have already stipulated that Sikhism flourished during the raj of Ranjit Siingh. Yet, there were many practices during the times of Maharaja Ranjit Singh that went contrary to our present understanding of Sikh values. He trimmed his beard. He had more than one wife. Some of his wives came to Sati at his death. He had a dalliance with a dancing girl, and yes he took his punishment for that. Under his rule alcohol was consumed to excess at marriages of his underlings. His funeral included both Sikh and Hindu rites. But during that time did anyone say, You are not a Sikh if you have a concubine? or because your attitude toward alcohol is lax?


Sikhism continued in spite of polygamy, alcohol, the concubinage, Hindu observances such as sati, and more that I have not listed. The SinghSaba movement and the Rehat Maryada have given Sikhism the form it has today. But no one questions whether Ranjit Singh was a Sikh.

Ranjit singh was a king and kings of all religion use to manupilate religions.If I am not wrong muslim men are not allowed to have more than 4 wives yet all the muslim rulers of India maintained their harams with 100s of queens.May be at the time of Ranjit singh some people do want to say that he is doing wrong from sikhism point of view but becaus eof his power they were afraid

 

[spnadmin]

Kanwardeep Singh ji

I am repeating my earlier post in part because I am still not seeing the connection with politics, and do not understand how the survival of Sikhi depends on excluding individuals who stray, or how Sikhs can identified as Not Sikh in terms of items on the poll.

Kanwardeep Singh ji


Many items on the poll seem to more customary practices of Sikhs, which we consider moral or ethical. Some points could have political connection - such as being a member of a dera. Others -- well it is hard to see the politics.

What is the political connection, and the relationship to miri piri, for a "Sikh" who has a personal guru. Yes --- a case can be made against this from many passages in Sri Guru Granth Sahib. I don't dispute that. But what connection is there that could weaken Sikhism?

For other parts of the poll, the political connection is almost impossible to see. For example dying one's beard, where is the political connection?

This one too. How is the survival of Sikhism negatively affected by dying one's beard. I have my own reasoning on this but would like to know yours. Or for that matter any other member's understanding.

But would you explain how engaging in a profession that might not be consistent with Sikh values is political. For example, operating a grocery store where cigarettes and alcohol are sold? I myself am not sure how that is political?

This is also important to ask. Let us use this example to make my question clear. Suppose a turbaned/keshdhari Sikh is shot inside his convenience store (small grocery store) which is part of his petrol station. In the store he sells cigarettes. It is discovered that his murder was a hate crime -- instigated by the fact he has a beard, wears a turban. Sikhs and civil rights organizations take up his cause. He is a victim of prejudice as a Sikh. He is turbaned/keeps hair, but he sells cigarettes -- and that is not consistent with Sikh values. Is he a Sikh? or not?

Or perhaps even having a personal baba or guru. Where is the connection with politics? I will get to this one later.

... I have already stated that the SRM came after Maharaja Ranjit Singh.. so we are in agreement on that point. But ... let me repeat... there were many practices during the times of Maharaja Ranjit Singh that went contrary to our present understanding of Sikh values. He trimmed his beard. He had more than one wife. Some of his wives came to Sati at his death. He had a dalliance with a dancing girl, and yes he took his punishment for that. Under his rule alcohol was consumed to excess at marriages of his underlings. His funeral included both Sikh and Hindu rites. ... Sikhism continued in spite of polygamy, alcohol, the concubinage, Hindu observances such as sati, and more .. In fact it thrived. The SinghSaba movement and the Rehat Maryada have given Sikhism the form it has today. But no one questions whether Ranjit Singh was a Sikh.

What I am reading is that "You are not a Sikh if you .......trim hair, practice a profession that is not consistent with Sikh values, etc,

Now if the survival of Sikhism depends on excluding people who do not conform strictly to traditional views, there is a problem. It cannot be proved. Ranjit Singh is a prime example of why this kind of thinking does not add up.

I will stop for now.

 

[hpannu]

Harjot Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

Thanks for your response.

I have a few more questions regarding your post.

1. What should the SRM be based on and does it need changes with time as our understanding of Gurbani ideals improves with the help of Sri Guru Granth Sahib, our only Guru?

2. What do you mean that Akaal Takhat is not defining Sikhs? If it were not, then it would not issue Hukumnaamas as candies the way it has been doing recently? Can you please elaborate on this a bit?

3.Akaal Takhat is superior to what because the only Guru, our Guide we have is Sri Guru Granth Sahib from where we should take our directions and learn from?

4. What do you have in mind to santise the Akaal Takhat which, as you rightfully said is in the hands of the politicos and has been for a very long time?

Please share your suggestions and thoughts with us.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh

Tejwant Singh Ji - Please don't take this as a offense I will try my best to answer your questions to the best of my ability.
1. As soon as Rehat Maryada is mentioned in Gurduara Sahib Management committee members go on the offensive - which Rehat Maryada ? there are hundreds of Rehat Maryada's. Infact we can make one right now as we communicate with each other. The Rehat Maryada in ? is Sikh Rehat Maryada (i will refer in short as SRM) which was approved by the Panth in 1936 adopted by SGPC in 1947. Sikh Scholars involved in drafting this rehat maryada were Principal Teja Singh, Bhai Kahn Singh Nabha, Bhai Vir Singh, Akali Kaur Singh and many others. This draft was sent throughout the world USA, CANADA, KENYA, MALAYSIA and other countries. This whole process started in 1925 and completed in 1936. This SRM is PANTH PARWAN. All other Rehat Maryada's are individual efforts some good some questionable.

Now comes the part of improving it based on understanding of Guru Granth Sahib. If you can get the PANTH together once again I will touch your feet. All individual efforts are not accepted - there are many to choose from. The first thing of importance is taking over SGPC control from Badal/RSS group. I have wasted my 10 years in Gurduara Management and now i am more happy teaching Gurmukhi to our next generation.

2. the 2nd ? - the context posted from SRM about who is a SIKH ? by Mai Ji is from SRM not by AKAAL TAKHT. Hukamnamas/AKAAL TAKHT is under Seige by BADAL/RSS Group. Let's take it over from them.

3. ? I never questioned the superiority of Guru Granth Sahib. Mai Ji questioned who is more superior AKAAL TAKHT or SRM ? my only answer is
AKAAL TAKHT. My reasoning is if we don't have a central authority to resolve questionable Panth matters ? we will all fight over nick bits and there will no conclusions. You will not be able to convince me and I will not be able to convince you. Believe me i have been in Gurduara meetings where everything comes to board - for example - Can a person with socks sit and do PATH from GURU GRANTH SAHIB ? my obvious answer was NO. the opposition was where is it written in GURU GRANTH SAHIB - that a person cannot sit with socks to do PATH from GURU GRANTH SAHIB. and this is only a little example - there were bigger issues too, when we had to conclude what's accepted at AKAAL TAKHT SAHIB is accepted here.

4. Taking over the control of SGPC is ....... ? lately i have been asking my relatives back in Punjab who is a SGPC member to cast votes. I think we overseas SIKHS should all make a joint effort to call our relatives to get active in SGPC membership since it is a Parliament of SIKHS and run a parallel government. I know it's not going to be easy. The current political situation in Punjab is Congress is supported by Central Government and Crores and Crores of Rs is spent to take over Punjab ( poor people's money down the drain ). Akalis(Badal/RSS group) on the other hand are using the SGPC funds to fight for control ( playing religous sentiments - misusing money for personal gains - NO PARCHAR going on )swordfight
Bhul Chuk Maaf

 

[JimRinX]

Kanwardeep Singh ji
I know that hundreds, if not thousands, of Bhakti have been established and then been devoted to, to one degree or another, in India/Pakistan; and I know that, no matter what, the Sikhi have embraced them all.
To me, that's the most important part of being a 'Sikh' - not whether or not you cut your hair, eat meat, sleep around (or not), or would want to further partition a piece of dirt that your Leaders wisely chose not to endorse the partitioning of, as much it has been, in the first place.
You may not live in the past, but I see, and feel, in your words that the Pain of teh past is still affecting most of you (forgive me if I'm being too personal - or just plain wrong); and, so, I was merely being the ever-hopeful optimist that I am, in trying to encourage you to embrace the Values of not just Tollerance - but Universal Love that I see going out the window in many other places, when those who practice other supposedly Tollerant Faiths, begin using Orthodoxy as an excuse to be IN-tollerant.
I'm, of course, not accusing you of doing anything wrong; all that you have said is justified and justifiable; I was simply trying to encourage you to attribute only the best parts of the Sikhi Philosophy - rather than giving into the Evils of Fanaticism that tend to go hand in hand with what you're calling the 'Tallibanized' version of Sikhism that, perhaps, is a little too Proud for Our Beautiful Lords taste.
Still, I'm just a 'not-so-ignorant-American' who'se yet to have the Pleasure of traveling to India; so I acknowledge that I am, perhaps, unfit to judge these things.
From my, perhaps imperfect, point of view, it would seem to me that the Sikhi are uniquely positioned - and widely respected enough - to make a whole lot of Peace happen in your oh-so troubled part of the world; and it's only by holding more dear your Tradition of Tollerance - and holding others to it, as well (For Example: Muslim Pride, I've found, is a Mighty Lever indeed; when you 'out tradition' them in their traditions!) - than your desire to (forgive me!) feel "Special", due to your (self-perceived?) 'superior adherence' to some Dogma, and the Evils of Pride therein, that will enable people like US to be most effective in our pursuit of this Noble Task.
My Soldiers are dying - and Innocents are being needlessly killed; all in the Name of God, as interpreted by (largely) Ignorant Fanatics - who've grown Drunk on their own Pridefulness!
The World cannot afford the 'Carbon Footprint' of all this Conflict!
I'm assured that neither you, nor any other Sikh - "Real", or otherwise - will ever give into these Evils; and that WE, by being Dharma, can set a Golden Example for these others to follow!
Let ius Hope, at least!
Peace, my Good Jios!

 

[Randip Singh]

Well If you and Amritdhari Sikh, then the following 4 things must be avoided:


In the Rehit Marayada (http://www.sgpc.net/rehat_maryada/section_six.html), Section Six, it states:


The undermentioned four transgressions (tabooed practices) must be avoided

1. Dishonouring the hair;
2. Eating the meat of an animal slaughtered the Muslim way(Kutha);
3. Cohabiting with a person other than one's spouse
4. Using tobacco.


Sikh Rehit Maryada

 

[spnadmin]

Well If you and Amritdhari Sikh, then the following 4 things must be avoided:


In the Rehit Marayada (http://www.sgpc.net/rehat_maryada/section_six.html), Section Six, it states:


The undermentioned four transgressions (tabooed practices) must be avoided

1. Dishonouring the hair;
2. Eating the meat of an animal slaughtered the Muslim way(Kutha);
3. Cohabiting with a person other than one's spouse
4. Using tobacco.


Sikh Rehit Maryada

Randip ji

That is so true. But are you no longer a Sikh if you transgress. Am I wrong?

 

[kds1980]

What I am reading is that "You are not a Sikh if you .......trim hair, practice a profession that is not consistent with Sikh values, etc,

Now if the survival of Sikhism depends on excluding people who do not conform strictly to traditional views, there is a problem. It cannot be proved. Ranjit Singh is a prime example of why this kind of thinking does not add up.

I will stop for now.

The defination of a sikh can neither be all inclusive neither it can be all exclusive.If tomorrow 30 million followers of a baba declare themselves sikhs and and say that their personal Guru should accepted as 12th Guru of sikhism then what?

In all religions there are all kinds of people .Fully practicing,semi practicing,non practicing but still calling themselves sikhs and apostates who declare themselves as non sikhs .In the example you have given that if a sikh become victim of hate crime then could sikh organisation fight for it.I will say yes they can fight him as non practising sikh.But on the other hand if that person become multi millionare or billionare after opening his brands of cigrattes then I don't think any sikh site or magazine will publish his story

 

[spnadmin]

Kanwardeep Singh ji

Thank you for your thoughtful answer, for taking the time. What often disturbs me about these discussions is something more humble and close to home. I have now made acquaintance with many Sikhs who are keshdhari. In their families are many who do not keep hair. Brothers and sisters, uncles and their children. Do we conclude that their relatives are not Sikhs that easily.