Sikhi Simran As Per Gurmat

[Harry Haller]

Young n Handsome Harry - Good morning !

H, you're great ! if you were as little as, pass wind on SPN your fan club would stand on their toes to smell; hate to think what they'd do if you were to unload for real, solid waste ? Now that is the "truth" because they believe in you. Similarly, I believe in my "guru". And, just as your fan club believe in you, a Sikh [student] "per se", who knocks n rocks "nuns on the run", I believe in my Guru and His "word" [waheguru]. So yes, you're right; the fraction of population I talk about/represent are the believers in the word of God and they are religiously Sikh.

H, I know you get "wet on the net" and love to "rumble in the jungle" [argue], but guess what ? some of us have to work for a living ! I have an appeal to draft -

love u n leave u

This fraction of population you represent, did they vote for you, or did you appoint yourself spokesman?

What gives you the right to consider this fraction of population to be true Sikhism?

have you patented it?

Are all other forms of Sikhism then wrong?


I could go on, but your doing a great job yourself,

 

[japjisahib04]

Similarly, I believe in my "guru".

Can you please apprise me who is your Guru by the way.

 

[Original]

Respected Gents - Good evening !

Sorry for the late response, I've been singing n dancing much of the day - living the dream if you like. But guess what ? we've gone off track completely. Silly me ! all your fault H. Let us rejoin the topic "simran". Thank you !

Polite notice:

simran is not an event nor a phenomena but a process that develops over time through regular practice. If you practice "nam simran" then its value for time invested in having a meaningful conversation, but if you don't, then it's a complete waste of valuable time. In other words, the blind studying "vision".

No offence intended !

Goodnight n Godbless

 

[Harry Haller]

Polite notice:

simran is not an event nor a phenomena but a process that develops over time through regular practice. If you practice "nam simran" then its value for time invested in having a meaningful conversation, but if you don't, then it's a complete waste of valuable time. In other words, the blind studying "vision".

apologies, I never went to university or trained to be anything affluent or important, so you may have to explain this using baby steps, or maybe clown balloons, I know I fall outside of the boundaries of people that you wish to help or nurture, as I do not subscribe your original thinking, but if you could that would be great

firstly, you state that

simran is not an event nor a phenomena but a process that develops over time through regular practice.

well that makes sense, although again, as it only applies to people like you, you really should preface it with 'in my experience' as the way it is written, it does sound quite definitive, like its been taken from some sort of original SRM that you have.

secondly

If you practice "nam simran" then its value for time invested in having a meaningful conversation, but if you don't, then it's a complete waste of valuable time. In other words, the blind studying "vision

I could equally say,

If you DON'T practice "nam simran" then its value for time invested in having a meaningful conversation, but if you DO, then it's a complete waste of valuable time. In other words, the blind studying "vision

however, I am more than happy to debate with anyone regardless of whether they practice or not, I am surprised that you have allowed yourself to be so closed minded.

oh, and the blind do study vision, its called blindsight Blindsight - Wikipedia

Ciao

 

[chazSingh]

When i returned from Australia, i spoke of my experiences to various friends and family...nothing i said could give them the experience of australia ...

all i could do was inpire them to go and 'visit' themselves ... for those that are interested in visiting Australia...conversation is great, focussed...direction is clear...

talking about Australia with people that don't have any interest in Australia nor ever intend to visit the place is quite difficult...very short and pointless conversation...i can try to inspire but in the end if they're not interested then they're not interested...

Pretty much the same with Simran...
Dive in (literally) if you're interested.... if not...whatever

 

[Harry Haller]

I would like to go to Australia, I like the idea, however, I might go by ship, or even road, that would be quite exciting, I could even go by air, as long as I could choose my own airline, your missing the point slightly, I like Australia, I want to go, but people keep telling me only one airline goes there, and one member here is convinced that the only airline that goes there is Original Air, I don't want to fly Original Air, I want to fly Freedom Air.

that is the point, but to extend further, what would you do in Australia? see the sights, feed the animals, have a BBQ on the beach? well that's not what I would do, I would do something different, as is my right and want, so I am doubly not interested, because not only do I have to fly Original Air when I go there, I have to do whatever is on the itinerary when I get there, thanks to Original Tours, my experience of Australia, and the way I got there, would be very different to another's.

In short, how dare anyone insist that all there is to Australia is what they understand and know, and the only way to get there is by their own airline? You wish to go to Australia and fly Original air, and you enjoyed it, good for you, why insist that experience is available and open to everyone? why insist that your own experience is the only way to enjoy Australia?

and the truth is, no one has yet been to Australia, so the visions, the journey and the whole philosophy is just pie in the sky, so excuse me if I eat my own pie in my own way

 

[chazSingh]

I would like to go to Australia, I like the idea, however, I might go by ship, or even road, that would be quite exciting, I could even go by air, as long as I could choose my own airline, your missing the point slightly, I like Australia, I want to go, but people keep telling me only one airline goes there, and one member here is convinced that the only airline that goes there is Original Air, I don't want to fly Original Air, I want to fly Freedom Air.

that is the point, but to extend further, what would you do in Australia? see the sights, feed the animals, have a BBQ on the beach? well that's not what I would do, I would do something different, as is my right and want, so I am doubly not interested, because not only do I have to fly Original Air when I go there, I have to do whatever is on the itinerary when I get there, thanks to Original Tours, my experience of Australia, and the way I got there, would be very different to another's.

In short, how dare anyone insist that all there is to Australia is what they understand and know, and the only way to get there is by their own airline? You wish to go to Australia and fly Original air, and you enjoyed it, good for you, why insist that experience is available and open to everyone? why insist that your own experience is the only way to enjoy Australia?

and the truth is, no one has yet been to Australia, so the visions, the journey and the whole philosophy is just pie in the sky, so excuse me if I eat my own pie in my own way

thats fantastic...

so you want to go to Australia...great...
so regardless of how you intend on getting there...Australia exists in a certain place...right?

So Gurbani says...even though Waheguru is everywhere, within everything and everything is within Waheguru....the place where you can experience this creative force...is within you...

the your next question should be...how? Gurbani Says by 'Simran'...

so whatever 'Simran' means to you...by your own reading and contemplating of Gurbani...put it into Practice and see where it takes you...

good luck Harry Ji...make that effort

 

[Tejwant Singh]

I used to love going to Australia because of the nude beaches.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Polite notice:

simran is not an event nor a phenomena but a process that develops over time through regular practice. If you practice "nam simran" then its value for time invested in having a meaningful conversation, but if you don't, then it's a complete waste of valuable time. In other words, the blind studying "vision".

No offence intended !

What a non-sensical babble you keep on with when asked direct questions! What a shame! You must be the first so-called Sikh sans Sikhi bravura, to put it politely, which is sad indeed.
You have no idea what you are talking about. If you knew, you would offer the process in details about the above rather than your repeated proclamations like a good parrot as you claim to be, but you cannot because you do not have it in you.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Guru Fateh to all.

Pyari Saad Sangat Ji - good morning [03:45 UK].

It is such a shame that authentic Sikh literature doesn't make it to SPN. You've got the Malyasian versions, Afagan bias, American interpretations and tailored made British editions to suit social needs, but sadly, no Punjabi from whence it came.

You are a very imaginative person. However, in your weird imagination, you forget what is around you. I hope you are honest when you respond as you are not known for that through your past posts and especially this one.

Please elaborate what you mean by, "It is such a shame that authentic Sikh literature doesn't make it to SPN" and show us in this forum the veracity of your claim. Sikhi demands that from all of us. And as you are at it, please elaborate what kind of Afagan bias that you claim you find it here. Please present examples from this forum to back your claims up.

Recent research in behavioural ecology and experimental psychology suggests that "organisms" are endowed with evolved programmes that modulate their behaviour according to their environment. If that'd be correct then how can a "foreigner" [non punjabi] comment on Punjabi way of life ? Calling Sikh practices derogatory names [mouthing n parroting] is offensive. It must be borne in mind, that just as Shakespeare cannot be rewritten, neither can Guru Nanak's Sikhi be rewritten. Any inconsistent interpretations will distroy its native form. What you will have will be the diluted versions and the original lost forever.

Firstly, please post the URL's, research papers of your claims above so all of us can benefit from it. Once you share them with us, then only one is able to respond in a proper manner. Hence it is unbecoming to throw rocks at the SPNers.
One can only respond to you after you have backed up your claims in a scientific manner as per your above allegory.

Sikhism is so placid that it provides an apt response to the needs of the new age. It is a life philosophy which liberates the spirit through self discipline of work, charity n simran. Work n charity are the means to an end, the end is nam simran. This is the study of the "gurus" teachings [sikhi sikhia gur vichaar SGGSJ, 465]. The eternal message of SGGSJ is the foundation on which the mystical philosophy [nam simran] of the Sikh Religion is based. It further proclaims that by following the Guru's instructions with love n devotion the disciple imbibes the Guru's qualities and ultimately becomes one with the Guru. Guru Amardas Ji nips it thus: abandoning one's own self O Nanak, one should merge in the guru [SGGSJ, 509].

As asked many times before, to no avail, would you be kind enough to define Naam Simran as per Gurbani? Please use the related full Shabads, not one-liners as you have been doing despite several reminders to the contrary. The one-liners you have used above do nothing to advance anyone's understanding but rather it is your argumentative point. Sikhi is for interaction and learning not for futile arguments.
If you had understood both the Shabads in full, then you would have found out that these one-liners distort the message of our visionary Gurus in the Shabads. Let's try again, shall we?

Humans have highly active minds that are not easily quitened, a desire for control n security not easily relinquished and an inner world not easily accessable. How can one enter, how can one one open lines of communication with the inner being and how can one switch off from one"s usual surroundings ? Nanak said through "nam simran".

and

Thanks for opening up. We are here for you to give you a hand.
What is Naam-Simran?

Simran by definition is "remembrance", but in places used interchangeably with "jap" meaning repetition or recitation. Mool Mantra n Jap Ji Sahib is the title given to the most celebrated composition of Guru Nanak, initially written under the title Jap. The addition of the honorific suffix Ji or Ji Sahib connotes reverence for the Guru's divine utterance. It is preceded by a short cryptic, highly basic percept popularly known as the Mool [root] Mantra. The use of the word "mool", meaning, root cause and remembrance thereof [simran] is the key to an endless journey of the soul. How that simran is done is evident in the everyday life of a Sikh. Suffice to add, single-pointed concentration [nam jap silently] on the holy name is recommended for fruitful excursions of the metaphysical worlds. These refined planes of existence [verses 34 - 37 japjisahib n many more] are not imaginations or some abstract theological conception, but actual levels of being which can be entered and explored by anyone who knows how to experience them. To call this traditional practice willy nilly is misleading and to clothe it in homely [Malaysian] imagery is crooked. The practice of nam simran brought about by our Gurus as a vehicle to travel to these metaphysical regions has within it an end, an end that is God.

Are the volunteers from Khalsa Aid and United Sikhs doing Naam Simran through serving langar to the hungry in Bangladesh?
Do Ravi Singh from Khalsa Aid and other volunteers who help the Yazidis in Northern Iraq doing Naam Simran through their work?

Yes or no, please.

Nam Simran is not an event nor a phenomena that can be intellectually analysed but a "process" that, if practiced regularly over time will develop and unlock inaccessible realms of the metaphysical worlds. It is a non-physical means of travel to divine regions and forms the basis of spiritual Sikhism - Punjabi Sikhism !

Are the above-mentioned examples events or not?

Thanks

Tejwant Singh.

 

[Kully]

Are the volunteers from Khalsa Aid and United Sikhs doing Naam Simran through serving langar to the hungry in Bangladesh?

No. Helping someone is need is not naam simran. It is "wand shakna" giving to those in need. Guru Sahib also says that serving mankind is sewa.

Do Ravi Singh from Khalsa Aid and other volunteers who help the Yazidis in Northern Iraq doing Naam Simran through their work?

It would be more accurately identified as "wand shakna" and also sewa.

I have bolded the line from this Shabad to make easier:

ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ਘਰੁ ੫ ॥
Siree Raag, First Mehla, Fifth House:

ਅਛਲ ਛਲਾਈ ਨਹ ਛਲੈ ਨਹ ਘਾਉ ਕਟਾਰਾ ਕਰਿ ਸਕੈ ॥
The Undeceiveable is not deceived by deception. He cannot be wounded by any dagger.

ਜਿਉ ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਰਾਖੈ ਤਿਉ ਰਹੈ ਇਸੁ ਲੋਭੀ ਕਾ ਜੀਉ ਟਲ ਪਲੈ ॥੧॥
As our Lord and Master keeps us, so do we exist. The soul of this greedy person is tossed this way and that. ||1||

ਬਿਨੁ ਤੇਲ ਦੀਵਾ ਕਿਉ ਜਲੈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Without the oil, how can the lamp be lit? ||1||Pause||

ਪੋਥੀ ਪੁਰਾਣ ਕਮਾਈਐ ॥ ਭਉ ਵਟੀ ਇਤੁ ਤਨਿ ਪਾਈਐ ॥
Let the reading of your prayer book be the oil, and let the Fear of God be the wick for the lamp of this body.

ਸਚੁ ਬੂਝਣੁ ਆਣਿ ਜਲਾਈਐ ॥੨॥
Light this lamp with the understanding of Truth. ||2||

ਇਹੁ ਤੇਲੁ ਦੀਵਾ ਇਉ ਜਲੈ ॥
Use this oil to light this lamp.

ਕਰਿ ਚਾਨਣੁ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਤਉ ਮਿਲੈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Light it, and meet your Lord and Master. ||1||Pause||

ਇਤੁ ਤਨਿ ਲਾਗੈ ਬਾਣੀਆ ॥
This body is softened with the Word of the Guru's Bani;

ਸੁਖੁ ਹੋਵੈ ਸੇਵ ਕਮਾਣੀਆ ॥
you shall find peace, doing seva (selfless service).

ਸਭ ਦੁਨੀਆ ਆਵਣ ਜਾਣੀਆ ॥੩॥
All the world continues coming and going in reincarnation. ||3||

ਵਿਚਿ ਦੁਨੀਆ ਸੇਵ ਕਮਾਈਐ ॥
In the midst of this world, do seva,

ਤਾ ਦਰਗਹ ਬੈਸਣੁ ਪਾਈਐ ॥
and you shall be given a place of honor in the Court of the Lord.

ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਬਾਹ ਲੁਡਾਈਐ ॥੪॥੩੩॥
Says Nanak, swing your arms in joy! ||4||33||

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Kully ji,

Guru Fateh.

Please post the Shabads with your understanding of Naam Simran so we can take it further. Without this the above is futile.

 

[chazSingh]

Kully ji,

Guru Fateh.

Please post the Shabads with your understanding of Naam Simran so we can take it further. Without this the above is futile.

Kulwant ji,

if you could also post your understanding of Naam Simran, without this it's pointless Kully ji providing you with anything also...

but really we've had these discussions before in the past on many many occasions...and we're still talking the same things

for me i agree with Original ji...this is as per my First hand experience...

Suffice to add, single-pointed concentration [nam jap silently] on the holy name is recommended for fruitful excursions of the metaphysical worlds. These refined planes of existence [verses 34 - 37 japjisahib n many more] are not imaginations or some abstract theological conception, but actual levels of being which can be entered and explored by anyone who knows how to experience them. To call this traditional practice willy nilly is misleading and to clothe it in homely [Malaysian] imagery is crooked. The practice of nam simran brought about by our Gurus as a vehicle to travel to these metaphysical regions has within it an end, an end that is God.

so basically, i put this into practive over several years...but quite early on in this practice some pretty amazing, mindblowing, ego shattering shizzle took place that made me question the whole of life and what i perceive as 'reality'...and more importantly...what i understand as being 'me'... ... thankfully SGGS Ji mentioned several things where i could cross check my experiences to understand that indeed i am heading into the right direction...

I agree with Kuly Ji...Seva and Wand Shakna is not Naam Simran...but they are important also in getting a person into the right frame of 'mind' to be ready for the the spiritual excursions...

discussing matters like this with a brother like Harry Ji, is difficult because i don;t believe he currently wants to do Naam Simran...which is cool...up to him...and it's not wrong of Original Ji, or anyone else to think of it as wasted energy to keep having the same discussion over and over..

Do you what you believe is 'Naam Simran' put it into practice...and then cross check your results with what is written in SGGS Ji...
if any of it matches, then you're headed in the right direction...

good luck ji...and god bless

 

[chazSingh]

my above post is addressed to Tejwant Singh, and NOT Kulwant Ji...
for some reason i don' get an 'edit' option to make changes to my post....

 

[Original]

When i returned from Australia, i spoke of my experiences to various friends and family...nothing i said could give them the experience of australia

....precisely, it all boils down to "experience" ! Its not the journey Australia, albeit, choreographically exciting or mundane, but the "being" in Australia that constitutes the experience "Australia". So it is with nam simran, where the process is the journey and experience is the being with the Higher Being. The Common denominator in both is the "active engagement" of the experiencer.

More another time - hope u good !

 

[chazSingh]

....precisely, it all boils down to "experience" ! Its not the journey Australia, albeit, choreographically exciting or mundane, but the "being" in Australia that constitutes the experience "Australia". So it is with nam simran, where the process is the journey and experience is the being with the Higher Being. The Common denominator in both is the "active engagement" of the experiencer.

More another time - hope u good !

yup...what one person experiences via Naam Simran could be very different to another's experience...
One needs to participate, that's the most important thing...and then it's up to waheguru...whatever will be will be...

 

[Tejwant Singh]

my above post is addressed to Tejwant Singh, and NOT Kulwant Ji...
for some reason i don' get an 'edit' option to make changes to my post....

Chaz ji

Guru Fateh

I have provided many Shabads regarding Naam Simran for many years. You may check them out yourself.

But it is the duty of those who claim Naam Simran is parroting/repeating of one word endlessly and they are Chaz, Kully and Original.

Original is quick to jump on your post but he seems very reluctant to provide examples from the SGGS for his claims even though repeatedly asked.
If one claims something, then prove it from only one source, SGGS.

Will wait to learn from you three about Naam Simran via Gurbani.

Thanks

 

[Tejwant Singh]

yup...what one person experiences via Naam Simran could be very different to another's experience...
One needs to participate, that's the most important thing...and then it's up to waheguru...whatever will be will be...

Chaz ji,
Guru Fateh.
Before we talk about flying to cloud 9 by parroting any word endlessly, we have to grasp the meaningfulness of the term Naam Simran which is not like smoking weed and feeling high, spiritually in this case.
If I am wrong then please pass around the bong of Naam Simran to the SPN Sangat via SGGS, our only Guru.
Thanks

 

[Tejwant Singh]

....precisely, it all boils down to "experience" ! Its not the journey Australia, albeit, choreographically exciting or mundane, but the "being" in Australia that constitutes the experience "Australia". So it is with nam simran, where the process is the journey and experience is the being with the Higher Being. The Common denominator in both is the "active engagement" of the experiencer.

More another time - hope u good !

Original ji,

One request to you. Please make an attempt to be coherent when you express yourself. Using allegory is your second nature which it is about self back patting rather than having an interaction about Sikhi in this wonderful forum.

Thanks

 

[chazSingh]

Chaz ji,
Guru Fateh.
Before we talk about flying to cloud 9 by parroting any word endlessly, we have to grasp the meaningfulness of the term Naam Simran which is not like smoking weed and feeling high, spiritually in this case.
If I am wrong then please pass around the bong of Naam Simran to the SPN Sangat via SGGS, our only Guru.
Thanks

many years ago i lost track and spent a few years drinking excessively, smoking weed and trying various drugs...
thankfully, i can read your comments and compare this kind of intoxication to 'mingling' with my waheguru during Amrit Vela...
the two are not the same thing lol...ha! (chuckling as i write this)

Maybe i will join my Sat Guru on Cloud 9 - and Smoke whatever he is smoking... the Bong of Naam Simran when you start to explore your own being is mind blowingly crazzzzzy! and i don;t think i've even skimmed the surface yet...Wah!


p.1039

Ḏehī nagrī na▫o ḏarvāje.
There are nine gates to the body-village;
Sir sir karṇaihārai sāje.
the Creator Lord fashioned them for each and every person.
Ḏasvai purakẖ aṯīṯ nirālā āpe alakẖ lakẖā▫i▫ā. ||4||
Within the Tenth Gate, dwells the Primal Lord, detached and unequalled. The unknowable reveals Himself. ||4||
Purakẖ alekẖ sacẖe ḏīvānā.
The Primal Lord cannot be held to account; True is His Celestial Court.
Hukam cẖalā▫e sacẖ nīsānā.
The Hukam of His Command is in effect; True is His Insignia.
Nānak kẖoj lahhu gẖar apnā har āṯam rām nām pā▫i▫ā. ||5||
O Nanak, search and examine your own home, and you shall find the Supreme Soul, and the Name of the Lord. ||5||