Taking Amrit And After Taking Amrit

[BhagatSingh]

Check out this article: Sikh Articles - Dastaar for Women

 

[kds1980]

If you read some of the rehatnama's they were mainly written for men not for women.
some of them are quite harsh on women . The duties of women are prescribed separately

Also if dastar was really recommended for women then why 99.%.99 of sikh women did not wear dastar.even sewadarni's of gurudwara's do not wear dastar.unlike today there was no reason for sikh women to give up their dastar in 1920"s 40"s but still at that time majority of sikh women never wore dastar

 

[BhagatSingh]

If you read some of the rehatnama's they were mainly written for men not for women.
some of them are quite harsh on women . The duties of women are prescribed separately

Also if dastar was really recommended for women then why 99.%.99 of sikh women did not wear dastar.even sewadarni's of gurudwara's do not wear dastar.unlike today there was no reason for sikh women to give up their dastar in 1920"s 40"s but still at that time majority of sikh women never wore dastar

fair enough, i like ur question.

Here are my two cents: Sikh Women did wear turbans during Gurus time but stopped wearing turbans because of fashion and a big influence of hindu culture. (its the same with men). Here's why: Only Sikh women wore a turban at the time. Compared to Sikh men that was pretty tough job considering no other woman wud wear a turban. But in case of men, there were many that wore turbans (from other religions and cultures). So my understanding is the Sikh women slowly stopped wearing turbans because it became hard for them to be the ONLY ones wearing turbans and also because of hindu culture. Now sikh men are the only ones wearing turbans, so its becoming hard for them as well, and they are responding similarly. I think its even harder now because of the terroerists wearing turbans. So now sikhs men have even more to deal with. I hope u understand wut i mean, cuz i am not good with words.

 

[kds1980]

fair enough, i like ur question.

Here are my two cents: Sikh Women did wear turbans during Gurus time but stopped wearing turbans because of fashion and a big influence of hindu culture. (its the same with men). Here's why: Only Sikh women wore a turban at the time

Totally wrong blaming everything on hindu's 20 th century phenomina

First of all many sikhs immigrated from pakistan where there was no hindu influence
My own ancestors were from villages where there was not even a single hindu.

secondly the fashion and western influence started from 70s so you cannot say that women of 40"s did not wear turban because of fashion.Earlier religion was strictly practiced and women did not have much choice so don't blame it on women.

Do you know what is the problem with sikhism today.The main problem is that many sants
are not following sikhi rather they are creating it.

 

[BhagatSingh]

Totally wrong blaming everything on hindu's 20 th century phenomina

First of all many sikhs immigrated from pakistan where there was no hindu influence
My own ancestors were from villages where there was not even a single hindu.

secondly the fashion and western influence started from 70s so you cannot say that women of 40"s did not wear turban because of fashion.Earlier religion was strictly practiced and women did not have much choice so don't blame it on women.

Do you know what is the problem with sikhism today.The main problem is that many sants
are not following sikhi rather they are creating it.

hmm ok, fair enuff but u dint read the next part
Women in no other culture wear turbans, so it wud be pretty hard for women to keep turbans.
There were many hindus in pakistan. And sikh converts were mostly hindus and it wud have been "weird" for them to wear turbans.
I am not blaming anyone. Im just saying turbans were not the "norm" for women, veils were. Turbans are a complete opposite of a veil.

 

[kds1980]

As i earlier said that modern influnce started from 70's i don't think that there was any reason for sikh women give up wear turban.muslim women wore their hijab and burkha hindu women wore their religious symbols then why only sikh women give up dastar.It is only the influence of modern culture started people slowly started giving up their religious and cultural symbols.

sikhs earlier were one of the toughest community i don't think they cared much about what others thought about them.so 99.99% women giving up dastar is too much to accept.

I beleive that guru gobind singh ji gave choice to women if they want to wear dastar then its o.k. if not then its also o.k.

 

[drkhalsa]

The argumrnt of society presuure for the disappearance of Dastaar in 99.9 % is streching the thing too much
I dont think Sikhs have been so weak in following there cultures even in present times

I have lived in northern Ireland it has total of 50 families max of sikhs and ,even these families are distributes in 100 of miles, there is no other such community around waering turban even then still 50 % of people wear dastaar ( its just an eample to show that society pressure can play role but it cant wipe out a practice in streong culture like sikh to such an extent)

 

[BhagatSingh]

As i earlier said that modern influnce started from 70's i don't think that there was any reason for sikh women give up wear turban.muslim women wore their hijab and burkha hindu women wore their religious symbols then why only sikh women give up dastar.It is only the influence of modern culture started people slowly started giving up their religious and cultural symbols.

sikhs earlier were one of the toughest community i don't think they cared much about what others thought about them.so 99.99% women giving up dastar is too much to accept.

I beleive that guru gobind singh ji gave choice to women if they want to wear dastar then its o.k. if not then its also o.k.

hmm... ok i want to see proof of women NOT wearing dastaars during guru gobind singh's time and before the 70's. Let be clarify as I have trouble with words, a turban on a woman would not be the social norm at gurus time. ON the other hand, it wud be the norm on a man. Its not a MAJOR factor but it certainly is a factor. and yes sikh bibiyan are/were very tough. NO i dont think guru gobind singh ji treated women differently. That ok or not ok thing was set by SGPC.
I think we all agree on the fact that all sikh female warriors wore turbans.

 

[drkhalsa]

Dear Bhagat Singh ji


I am in no postion to oppose yo and its ok with me if you believ that Women should wear Keski

But I would just like to disscuss something about which I was also confused in past so thought of sharing


YOU said

NO i dont think guru gobind singh ji treated women differently

Yes Agree !! totallt But does this mean that BOTH men and Women should be same iin each and every aspect? to the extent they even look similar?

Treating equally not neccesarily mean that creating clones of everything as this does not even applies in Nature

Do you think GOD treated Man and Woman differently by giving some features like beard and mustache to one and other with organs to give child birth does this mans inequality

Equally means more in sense that they are denied anything that they deserved according to need and this explains the wearing of Keski ( if its true! i Dont think so !) by warior women


My intention was never to lecture something but just share the confusion I had in past so thought of sharing with you

Respectfully

Jatinder Singh

 

[Archived_Member_19]

<<hmm... ok i want to see proof of women NOT wearing dastaars during guru gobind singh's time and before the 70's. Let be clarify as I have trouble with words, >>

am slightly late into the topic and discussion,

but errr... i would also like to see proof that women WORE turbans during 17th and 18th century

 

[BhagatSingh]

<<hmm... ok i want to see proof of women NOT wearing dastaars during guru gobind singh's time and before the 70's. Let be clarify as I have trouble with words, >>

am slightly late into the topic and discussion,

but errr... i would also like to see proof that women WORE turbans during 17th and 18th century

i guess u didnt read the part where i said that i dont have any at the moment and that I could present a hypothetical situation to try to prove it

 

[BhagatSingh]

Dear Bhagat Singh ji


I am in no postion to oppose yo and its ok with me if you believ that Women should wear Keski

But I would just like to disscuss something about which I was also confused in past so thought of sharing


YOU said



Yes Agree !! totallt But does this mean that BOTH men and Women should be same iin each and every aspect? to the extent they even look similar?

Treating equally not neccesarily mean that creating clones of everything as this does not even applies in Nature

Do you think GOD treated Man and Woman differently by giving some features like beard and mustache to one and other with organs to give child birth does this mans inequality

Equally means more in sense that they are denied anything that they deserved according to need and this explains the wearing of Keski ( if its true! i Dont think so !) by warior women


My intention was never to lecture something but just share the confusion I had in past so thought of sharing with you

Respectfully

Jatinder Singh

OK I like that argument but Ive "heard" that wearing the turban can benefit the wearer, I am not 100% sure I can see their logic and I agree to the people who say this to an extent. So U could say that Guru GObind singh ji knew this, so he told everyone to wear a turban. If not? then
Turban is obiously great protection. Especially a Dhumalla, this is a fact. IT acts like a comfortable helmet. SO the fact that all Sikh warriors (men and women) wore them should not surprise you.
Turbans come from royalty. Since women were treated like dirt back then, I think guru ji would have advised the women to wear turbans to uplift their status in the soceity and it would have boosted their confidence. Because genereally when people wear turbans they feel "special"

 

[kds1980]

hmm... ok i want to see proof of women NOT wearing dastaars during guru gobind singh's time and before the 70's. Let be clarify as I have trouble with words, a turban on a woman would not be the social norm at gurus time. ON the other hand, it wud be the norm on a man. Its not a MAJOR factor but it certainly is a factor. and yes sikh bibiyan are/were very tough. NO i dont think guru gobind singh ji treated women differently. That ok or not ok thing was set by SGPC.
I think we all agree on the fact that all sikh female warriors wore turbans.

You are right dastar on women would not be a norm on women that's why non sikh historian should had written this thing.but no such thing was written by them.

As far sikh women before 70's are concerned just ask old sikh ladies whether they wore dastar or not.you will find old sikh ladies with little beard but with dastar its very difficuilt

Also non sikh people who wrote about practices and customs of sikhs did not mention anything about dastar on women

you will also find sikh women in pre partition and partition documentries were without dastar.

so please don't think that dastar was norm for majority of sikh women

 

[BhagatSingh]

You are right dastar on women would not be a norm on women that's why non sikh historian should had written this thing.but no such thing was written by them.

As far sikh women before 70's are concerned just ask old sikh ladies whether they wore dastar or not.you will find old sikh ladies with little beard but with dastar its very difficuilt

Also non sikh people who wrote about practices and customs of sikhs did not mention anything about dastar on women

you will also find sikh women in pre partition and partition documentries were without dastar.

so please don't think that dastar was norm for majority of sikh women

Ok fair enough. But I see european women wearing turbans. Don't you think they got it from somewhere. I mean it was sort of a men's thing. Maybe those women were inspired by Singhniyan. Dont think I am dont understand what ur saying or i am arguing. All i am doing is clearing up my doubts.

 

[kds1980]

Ok fair enough. But I see european women wearing turbans. Don't you think they got it from somewhere. I mean it was sort of a men's thing. Maybe those women were inspired by Singhniyan. Dont think I am dont understand what ur saying or i am arguing. All i am doing is clearing up my doubts.

From my knowledge of sikhism practised in western countries is that in west the prachar of sikhi is mainly done by 3ho ,akj, and other jatha's.Majority of them support vegetarianism
and dastar for women.this could the reason for western sikh women to wear dastar

 

[BhagatSingh]

From my knowledge of sikhism practised in western countries is that in west the prachar of sikhi is mainly done by 3ho ,akj, and other jatha's.Majority of them support vegetarianism
and dastar for women.this could the reason for western sikh women to wear dastar

i meant non sikhs, BTW u still didnt answer all of my question since I asked where did they get the idea of dastaar from?

 

[kds1980]

i meant non sikhs, BTW u still didnt answer all of my question since I asked where did they get the idea of dastaar from?

I don't know anything about non sikh european women wearing dastar.

 

[Archived_Member1]

fair enough, i like ur question.

Here are my two cents: Sikh Women did wear turbans during Gurus time but stopped wearing turbans because of fashion and a big influence of hindu culture. (its the same with men). Here's why: Only Sikh women wore a turban at the time. Compared to Sikh men that was pretty tough job considering no other woman wud wear a turban. But in case of men, there were many that wore turbans (from other religions and cultures). So my understanding is the Sikh women slowly stopped wearing turbans because it became hard for them to be the ONLY ones wearing turbans and also because of hindu culture. Now sikh men are the only ones wearing turbans, so its becoming hard for them as well, and they are responding similarly. I think its even harder now because of the terroerists wearing turbans. So now sikhs men have even more to deal with. I hope u understand wut i mean, cuz i am not good with words.

from what i understand, sikh women stopped wearing turbans because the mughals used to pay people to bring in a sikh's head. women in turbans were also decapitated and their heads brought in, disguised as the heads of boys. so the women stopped wearing dastaar in order to protect themselves from this bounty. after a while, the custom of women in dastaar just faded away.

 

[Archived_Member1]

hmm ok, fair enuff but u dint read the next part
Women in no other culture wear turbans, so it wud be pretty hard for women to keep turbans.
.

this is incorrect. many women in african and carribean countries wear turbans. also in the west, turbans have been fashionable at various times, you can see them in 18th century paintings, photos from the 1920s, or on the fashion runways last year. they are also worn by women who's hair has fallen out due to disease, etc.

 

[Archived_Member1]

From my knowledge of sikhism practised in western countries is that in west the prachar of sikhi is mainly done by 3ho ,akj, and other jatha's.Majority of them support vegetarianism
and dastar for women.this could the reason for western sikh women to wear dastar

another reason could be that in western culture, women are given equal status as men, and take advantage of the fact that sikhi ALSO gives us equal status.

in india, sikh women are said to be equals, but are not treated as such, and possibly don't have the same confidence that western women have (we've also discussed how indian women don't often discuss sikhi in online forums for similar reasons).

in the west, sikh women want to be recognized as sikhs. we don't want to be mistaken for muslims by wearing a dupatta on our heads. the dastaar gives a feeling of strength and confidence that can only be experienced by wearing it.

FYI- i wear a dastaar but follow panthic rehet and believe in the concept of EKTA (a united panth), so do not follow any jatha or 3ho.