Hard Talk Taking One Liners Out Of Context From Gurbani To Allow Intellectual Independence?

[Sherdil]

There cannot be debate without disagreements. One liners are almost always taken out of context to support one's argument. Quoting more than a few lines ensures that proper weight is given to the meaning derived from Gurbani rather than relying on one's own subjective interpretation. Debate should always be a means to an end, rather than an end in itself. Providing proper context for the lines quoted helps to ensure that the discussion reaches a conclusion, rather than dragging on endlessly.

 

[chazSingh]

There cannot be debate without disagreements. One liners are almost always taken out of context to support one's argument. Quoting more than a few lines ensures that proper weight is given to the meaning derived from Gurbani rather than relying on one's own subjective interpretation. Debate should always be a means to an end, rather than an end in itself. Providing proper context for the lines quoted helps to ensure that the discussion reaches a conclusion, rather than dragging on endlessly.

whilst i agree with you on the most part...

some one liners are pretty straightforward to understand...and can not be taken out of context no matter who tries....for example...

Sri Guru Arjan Dev Ji says:

I have quit searching outside; the Guru has shown me that God is within the home of my own heart.

SikhiToTheMAX - Enabling Gurmat Knowledge

now, no matter how hard i try...i'm finding it impossible to twist it to mean anything else...

other than....if i want to seek Waheguru, i must look within myself...and quit searching on the outside...

but yes, the rest of the shabad is pretty damn amazing also, mentioning the tenth gate, the shabad within, the mind having calmed down from shooting of in all sorts of directions...the part that Guru's grace plays in all this etc etc...very beautiful shabad...(yes harry ji..all shabads are all equally beautiful)

so...if someone asked me...where do i go to look for Waheguru...i have no problem whatsoever in giving them the above one liner...because i don't believe this particular one liner can be taken out of context...or used in any other way...

 

[Original]

One liners are almost always taken out of context to support one's argument.

I don't think that'd be entirely true, Sir ! Of the 508 postings, I don't think I fell foul to the, "...out of context ...." way of militating a point as you mildly put it. I stand corrected should that be the case ! Besides, there are slokes {9th Guru] which are single line. The format of a sloke is a free verse, it can contain 2 or more lines or remain single. The content in it can also remain free of any bindings or restrictions. This form can fit into any philosophical, social or emotional material. Lack of specification is its speciality, it can accept anything in its own way. I believe, the Right honourable Sardar @Tejwant Singh Malik may have coined the term "one liner" by the by without due diligence, unwittingly.

Should there be an oversight on my part, I stand corrected accordingly !

Many thanks

 

[Sherdil]

@chazSingh @Original

Certain lines can stand on their own, however there are many that cannot. It is best to take a uniform approach and expect all to provide context whenever quoting from Gurbani. The alternative is to leave it to the discretion of the poster, which leaves the door open for certain people to manipulate the referred quotes for their own purpose. I agree that an entire Shabadh is sometimes too much to offer. Just give enough to provide context.

Also, it helps to provide the Gurmukhi since translations are sometimes sub-par. Srigranth.org is a wonderful resource. Sikhitothemax only gives us the transliteration.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Original ji,

Guru Fateh.

You write:

Sir - good evening !

Tejwant Singh asked:
Is "ram-kar" above the same as ramkar in the Shabad by Guru Arjan mentioned above?

Original answers : Yes it is, within the context used. More when I elaborate on the whole poem, if that's okay !

Much obliged

Original ji,

Guru Fateh,

I am sorry because I am a bit more confused now.

Are you saying that Ramkar in the Shabad above is based on the fairy tales of Ram and Sita?

Is that correct?

Thanks

PS: Please post your English version of the above Shabad for our Non- Gurmurkhi speaking family members.

Much obliged.

 

[Original]

@chazSingh @Original

Certain lines can stand on their own, however there are many that cannot. It is best to take a uniform approach and expect all to provide context whenever quoting from Gurbani. The alternative is to leave it to the discretion of the poster, which leaves the door open for certain people to manipulate the referred quotes for their on purpose. I agree that an entire Shabadh is sometimes too much to offer. Just give enough to provide context.

Also, it helps to provide the Gurmukhi since translations are sometimes sub-par. Srigranth.org is a wonderful resource. Sikhitothemax only gives us the transliteration.

Sir

Allow me to cite a classic example of some relevance with what we're discussing so far. My learned and honourable friend, Swarn Singh Bains, once, in his translations used an inappropriate "term". I spotted it immediately and proceeded to offer corrective procedure, thus:

He used the English equivalent Evil when it should've been Poison to translate ਬਿਖੁ

ਬਿਖੁ ਕਾ ਮਾਤਾ ਬਿਖੁ ਮਾਹਿ ਸਮਾਈ ॥੩॥

...ਬਿਖੁ = poison and not evil. Gur Ghar quite often uses the word ਬਿਖੁ to denote from a substantive perspective the harm to one's self and not to another. Evil falls within the ambit of morality, that is, right n wrong, good n bad, etc. inflicted presumably, which is not what the verse is referring to.

Take care and please continue...

As you can see from the above example, and in similar situations, it can perhaps be entertained. This again would be at the management's discretion.

Sherdil Ji, you've made the correct observation and I'm sincerely grateful !

Once again. much obliged !

 

[Original]

PS: Please post your English version of the above Shabad for our Non- Gurmurkhi speaking family members.

I will do Sir ! And, since it will be for a wider read, I ought to do it properly. I'll also, answer all your questions, or indeed, make an attempt to answer them.

Thank you

 

[Harry Haller]

whilst i agree with you on the most part...

some one liners are pretty straightforward to understand...and can not be taken out of context no matter who tries....for example...

Sri Guru Arjan Dev Ji says:

I have quit searching outside; the Guru has shown me that God is within the home of my own heart.

SikhiToTheMAX - Enabling Gurmat Knowledge

now, no matter how hard i try...i'm finding it impossible to twist it to mean anything else...

other than....if i want to seek Waheguru, i must look within myself...and quit searching on the outside...

but yes, the rest of the shabad is pretty damn amazing also, mentioning the tenth gate, the shabad within, the mind having calmed down from shooting of in all sorts of directions...the part that Guru's grace plays in all this etc etc...very beautiful shabad...(yes harry ji..all shabads are all equally beautiful)

so...if someone asked me...where do i go to look for Waheguru...i have no problem whatsoever in giving them the above one liner...because i don't believe this particular one liner can be taken out of context...or used in any other way...

actually you are wrong, let us just say that someone was advocating the philosophy that God was not contained in everything and everyone, Muslims for instance believe that God only lives in human beings (according to a Muslim customer anway), not animals, whereas Sikhs believe God is in absolutely everything, the above quote could be used to justify that God is not everywhere at all, just in the hearts of people, or even just some people, and not everyone.

 

[Harkiran Kaur]

in my opinion there is always some recollection...why is one person scared of spiders, and another isn't...why does one person fall apart at the very sign of difficulty whereas another person just takes it in, finds a solution to the situation...

yes, some of it would be due to what has occurred in this life...but i believe some of it is from past experiences of you, the soul...the evolution of you, through countless experiences...

the point, in my opinion would be that you change as a person through the experiences, and not actually want to know what those experiences have been...otherwise you'll just spend you're whole life as some people do (who claim to recollect) searching for their past family, houses etc...that would be moving backwards...when the point again in my opinion is to evolve and move forward as a better person, as a purer brighter soul...

oh and....i don;t think i've ever met anyone that recollected their past life...have read many stories in my 'research' days of the unexplained domain...but then SGGS Ji, said i can experience the unexplained myself...so that's where i am...starting to realize what i read in it, is freaking true...

Also, why do some people have spiritual experiences straight from childhood, while others tend towards atheistic beliefs and skepticism?

Anyway I remember reading some VERY VERY convincing reincarnation stories... one was of a child who remembered being murdered and the body was never found, but the child brought the police to where the body was. The little boy remembered in chilling details the murder. Another remembered being a pilot and dying in WWII and gave details of the crew, bomber etc that no 4 year old could possibly have known. The pilot he claimed to have been was listed as MIA. In both cases the children could not possibly have known these people who they claimed to be, nor heard stories about them etc.

 

[Harry Haller]

Also, why do some people have spiritual experiences straight from childhood, while others tend towards atheistic beliefs and skepticism?

Anyway I remember reading some VERY VERY convincing reincarnation stories... one was of a child who remembered being murdered and the body was never found, but the child brought the police to where the body was. The little boy remembered in chilling details the murder. Another remembered being a pilot and dying in WWII and gave details of the crew, bomber etc that no 4 year old could possibly have known. The pilot he claimed to have been was listed as MIA. In both cases the children could not possibly have known these people who they claimed to be, nor heard stories about them etc.

I suppose anything is possible

 

[chazSingh]

actually you are wrong, let us just say that someone was advocating the philosophy that God was not contained in everything and everyone, Muslims for instance believe that God only lives in human beings (according to a Muslim customer anway), not animals, whereas Sikhs believe God is in absolutely everything, the above quote could be used to justify that God is not everywhere at all, just in the hearts of people, or even just some people, and not everyone.

Not many Muslims in the mainstream I. Ve met think like the Muslim you spoke to...

But anyway...this thread is about posting full shabads...the full shabad that I referenced...with the link..doesn't go into the detail of God existing within everything unfortunately for your argument...so posting the full shabad you can still argue your case...which doesn't do much anyway for this thread...

To answer your argument...I would have to post a few other shabads and delve into the rest of sggs ji..thankfully on such a matter even one liners can answer the beliefs of your Muslim friend...will post some one liners tomorrow. ..and maybe we can contemplate on them to see if they actually mean what they imply?

 

[chazSingh]

Also, why do some people have spiritual experiences straight from childhood, while others tend towards atheistic beliefs and skepticism?

Anyway I remember reading some VERY VERY convincing reincarnation stories... one was of a child who remembered being murdered and the body was never found, but the child brought the police to where the body was. The little boy remembered in chilling details the murder. Another remembered being a pilot and dying in WWII and gave details of the crew, bomber etc that no 4 year old could possibly have known. The pilot he claimed to have been was listed as MIA. In both cases the children could not possibly have known these people who they claimed to be, nor heard stories about them etc.

I do agree with you on souls being reborn into physical bodies again...but I don't think it's that important to remember all previous lives..

I personally think the reason it's happens to some is to show the rest of us how it can impact our future growth...as in we can waste a lifetime trying to figure past lives out...trying to find past family...solving crimes etc etc..

But then only waheguru knows why some people do or don't...the holder of the pen...I don't really know lol

And yes...some people from a very young age just know a lot more...are compassionate beyond belief...fearless...have spiritual experiences...why? I.m in your camp...has to do with previous bagti and devotion...and sat karams...good deeds

 

[Harry Haller]

Guruji Can I eat my Vegetables without Salt?
Answer:
ਕਬੀਰ ਖੂਬੁ ਖਾਨਾ ਖੀਚਰੀ ਜਾ ਮਹਿ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਲੋਨੁ ॥
ਹੇਰਾ ਰੋਟੀ ਕਾਰਨੇ ਗਲਾ ਕਟਾਵੈ ਕਉਨੁ ॥੧੮੮॥
"O Kabeer! The dinner of beans and rice is excellent, if it is (just) flavoured with salt. I am not ready to have my own throat cut to have meat with my bread? ||188||"
(Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji - Ang 1374)

Guruji, my if my family are attacked by thugs, should I defend them?
ਦੂਖੁ ਨ ਦੇਈ ਕਿਸੈ ਜੀਅ ਪਤਿ ਸਿਉ ਘਰਿ ਜਾਵਉ ॥
"Do not cause any being to suffer, and you shall go to your true home with honor."
(Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji - Ang 322)

But surely to defend my families life is righteous
ਜੀਅ ਬਧਹੁ ਸੁ ਧਰਮੁ ਕਰਿ ਥਾਪਹੁ ਅਧਰਮੁ ਕਹਹੁ ਕਤ ਭਾਈ ॥
ਆਪਸ ਕਉ ਮੁਨਿਵਰ ਕਰਿ ਥਾਪਹੁ ਕਾ ਕਉ ਕਹਹੁ ਕਸਾਈ ॥2॥
"You kill living beings, and call it a righteous action. Tell me, brother, what would you call an unrighteous action? If you religious people are doing "religious" killing for meat, then what is A-dharam (atheism)? If you are a religious person then whom will we call a butcher? ||2||"
(Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji - Ang 1103)

Is it true that one can drink wine, as long as it you do not eat fish with it?
ਕਬੀਰ ਭਾਂਗ ਮਾਛੁਲੀ ਸੁਰਾ ਪਾਨਿ ਜੋ ਜੋ ਪ੍ਰਾਨੀ ਖਾਂਹਿ ॥
ਤੀਰਥ ਬਰਤ ਨੇਮ ਕੀਏ ਤੇ ਸਭੈ ਰਸਾਤਲਿ ਜਾਂਹਿ ॥੨੩੩॥
"O Kabeer! Those mortals who consume marijuana, fish and wine - no matter what pilgrimages, fasts and rituals they follow, they will all go to hell. ||233||"
(Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji - Ang 1377)

What about black pudding?
ਜੇ ਰਤੁ ਲਗੈ ਕਪੜੈ ਜਾਮਾ ਹੋਇ ਪਲੀਤੁ ॥
ਜੋ ਰਤੁ ਪੀਵਹਿ ਮਾਣਸਾ ਤਿਨ ਕਿਉ ਨਿਰਮਲੁ ਚੀਤੁ ॥
ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਉ ਖੁਦਾਇ ਕਾ ਦਿਲਿ ਹਛੈ ਮੁਖਿ ਲੇਹੁ ॥
ਅਵਰਿ ਦਿਵਾਜੇ ਦੁਨੀ ਕੇ ਝੂਠੇ ਅਮਲ ਕਰੇਹੁ ॥੧॥
"If one's clothes are stained with blood, the garment becomes polluted. Those who drink the blood of others - how can those people's consciousness be pure?"
(Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji - Ang 140)

My father is blind, is it true he will never find enlightenment?, and my mother is a professional bamboo blower, what about her?
ਕਬੀਰ ਸਾਚਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਕਿਆ ਕਰੈ ਜਉ ਸਿਖਾ ਮਹਿ ਚੂਕ ॥
ਅੰਧੇ ਏਕ ਨ ਲਾਗਈ ਜਿਉ ਬਾਂਸੁ ਬਜਾਈਐ ਫੂਕ ॥੧੫੮॥
"O Kabeer! What can the True Guru do, when His Sikhs are at fault? The blind do not take in any of His Teachings; it is as useless as blowing into bamboo. ||158||"
(Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji – Ang 1372)


one liners eh!

 

[chazSingh]

Guruji Can I eat my Vegetables without Salt?
Answer:
ਕਬੀਰ ਖੂਬੁ ਖਾਨਾ ਖੀਚਰੀ ਜਾ ਮਹਿ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਲੋਨੁ ॥
ਹੇਰਾ ਰੋਟੀ ਕਾਰਨੇ ਗਲਾ ਕਟਾਵੈ ਕਉਨੁ ॥੧੮੮॥
"O Kabeer! The dinner of beans and rice is excellent, if it is (just) flavoured with salt. I am not ready to have my own throat cut to have meat with my bread? ||188||"
(Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji - Ang 1374)

Guruji, my if my family are attacked by thugs, should I defend them?
ਦੂਖੁ ਨ ਦੇਈ ਕਿਸੈ ਜੀਅ ਪਤਿ ਸਿਉ ਘਰਿ ਜਾਵਉ ॥
"Do not cause any being to suffer, and you shall go to your true home with honor."
(Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji - Ang 322)

But surely to defend my families life is righteous
ਜੀਅ ਬਧਹੁ ਸੁ ਧਰਮੁ ਕਰਿ ਥਾਪਹੁ ਅਧਰਮੁ ਕਹਹੁ ਕਤ ਭਾਈ ॥
ਆਪਸ ਕਉ ਮੁਨਿਵਰ ਕਰਿ ਥਾਪਹੁ ਕਾ ਕਉ ਕਹਹੁ ਕਸਾਈ ॥2॥
"You kill living beings, and call it a righteous action. Tell me, brother, what would you call an unrighteous action? If you religious people are doing "religious" killing for meat, then what is A-dharam (atheism)? If you are a religious person then whom will we call a butcher? ||2||"
(Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji - Ang 1103)

Is it true that one can drink wine, as long as it you do not eat fish with it?
ਕਬੀਰ ਭਾਂਗ ਮਾਛੁਲੀ ਸੁਰਾ ਪਾਨਿ ਜੋ ਜੋ ਪ੍ਰਾਨੀ ਖਾਂਹਿ ॥
ਤੀਰਥ ਬਰਤ ਨੇਮ ਕੀਏ ਤੇ ਸਭੈ ਰਸਾਤਲਿ ਜਾਂਹਿ ॥੨੩੩॥
"O Kabeer! Those mortals who consume marijuana, fish and wine - no matter what pilgrimages, fasts and rituals they follow, they will all go to hell. ||233||"
(Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji - Ang 1377)

What about black pudding?
ਜੇ ਰਤੁ ਲਗੈ ਕਪੜੈ ਜਾਮਾ ਹੋਇ ਪਲੀਤੁ ॥
ਜੋ ਰਤੁ ਪੀਵਹਿ ਮਾਣਸਾ ਤਿਨ ਕਿਉ ਨਿਰਮਲੁ ਚੀਤੁ ॥
ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਉ ਖੁਦਾਇ ਕਾ ਦਿਲਿ ਹਛੈ ਮੁਖਿ ਲੇਹੁ ॥
ਅਵਰਿ ਦਿਵਾਜੇ ਦੁਨੀ ਕੇ ਝੂਠੇ ਅਮਲ ਕਰੇਹੁ ॥੧॥
"If one's clothes are stained with blood, the garment becomes polluted. Those who drink the blood of others - how can those people's consciousness be pure?"
(Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji - Ang 140)

My father is blind, is it true he will never find enlightenment?, and my mother is a professional bamboo blower, what about her?
ਕਬੀਰ ਸਾਚਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਕਿਆ ਕਰੈ ਜਉ ਸਿਖਾ ਮਹਿ ਚੂਕ ॥
ਅੰਧੇ ਏਕ ਨ ਲਾਗਈ ਜਿਉ ਬਾਂਸੁ ਬਜਾਈਐ ਫੂਕ ॥੧੫੮॥
"O Kabeer! What can the True Guru do, when His Sikhs are at fault? The blind do not take in any of His Teachings; it is as useless as blowing into bamboo. ||158||"
(Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji – Ang 1372)


one liners eh!

Harry ji.

That's fantastic. ..well done. Lol

Some of those lines have quite clear meanings lol...without needING your drama

But anyway...some one liners are very straight to the point...others require a bit more... no one is saying any different...well done...

Athletico!!!

 

[chazSingh]

Guruji Can I eat my Vegetables without Salt?
Answer:
ਕਬੀਰ ਖੂਬੁ ਖਾਨਾ ਖੀਚਰੀ ਜਾ ਮਹਿ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਲੋਨੁ ॥
ਹੇਰਾ ਰੋਟੀ ਕਾਰਨੇ ਗਲਾ ਕਟਾਵੈ ਕਉਨੁ ॥੧੮੮॥
"O Kabeer! The dinner of beans and rice is excellent, if it is (just) flavoured with salt. I am not ready to have my own throat cut to have meat with my bread? ||188||"
(Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji - Ang 1374

Seriously...what's your point here ? Lol

Guruji, my if my family are attacked by thugs, should I defend them?
ਦੂਖੁ ਨ ਦੇਈ ਕਿਸੈ ਜੀਅ ਪਤਿ ਸਿਉ ਘਰਿ ਜਾਵਉ ॥
"Do not cause any being to suffer, and you shall go to your true home with honor."
(Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji - Ang 322)

When you wake up every morning. Go with the intention not to harm anyone...self defence is quite unique don't you think? as shown by the lives of the gurus.

So again...what's your point?

But surely to defend my families life is righteous
ਜੀਅ ਬਧਹੁ ਸੁ ਧਰਮੁ ਕਰਿ ਥਾਪਹੁ ਅਧਰਮੁ ਕਹਹੁ ਕਤ ਭਾਈ ॥
ਆਪਸ ਕਉ ਮੁਨਿਵਰ ਕਰਿ ਥਾਪਹੁ ਕਾ ਕਉ ਕਹਹੁ ਕਸਾਈ ॥2॥
"You kill living beings, and call it a righteous action. Tell me, brother, what would you call an unrighteous action? If you religious people are doing "religious" killing for meat, then what is A-dharam (atheism)? If you are a religious person then whom will we call a butcher? ||2||"
(Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji - Ang 1103)

Lol. It's quite obvious what the 'one liner'is getting at

Is it true that one can drink wine, as long as it you do not eat fish with it?
ਕਬੀਰ ਭਾਂਗ ਮਾਛੁਲੀ ਸੁਰਾ ਪਾਨਿ ਜੋ ਜੋ ਪ੍ਰਾਨੀ ਖਾਂਹਿ ॥
ਤੀਰਥ ਬਰਤ ਨੇਮ ਕੀਏ ਤੇ ਸਭੈ ਰਸਾਤਲਿ ਜਾਂਹਿ ॥੨੩੩॥
"O Kabeer! Those mortals who consume marijuana, fish and wine - no matter what pilgrimages, fasts and rituals they follow, they will all go to hell. ||233||"
(Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji - Ang 1377)

NO confusion here either...lol

What about black pudding?
ਜੇ ਰਤੁ ਲਗੈ ਕਪੜੈ ਜਾਮਾ ਹੋਇ ਪਲੀਤੁ ॥
ਜੋ ਰਤੁ ਪੀਵਹਿ ਮਾਣਸਾ ਤਿਨ ਕਿਉ ਨਿਰਮਲੁ ਚੀਤੁ ॥
ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਉ ਖੁਦਾਇ ਕਾ ਦਿਲਿ ਹਛੈ ਮੁਖਿ ਲੇਹੁ ॥
ਅਵਰਿ ਦਿਵਾਜੇ ਦੁਨੀ ਕੇ ਝੂਠੇ ਅਮਲ ਕਰੇਹੁ ॥੧॥
"If one's clothes are stained with blood, the garment becomes polluted. Those who drink the blood of others - how can those people's consciousness be pure?"
(Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji - Ang 140)

I.m going to ask my 11 year old nephew to contemplate this shabad tomorrow. ..I.m pretty sure he will come up with something more worthwhile than this...

My father is blind, is it true he will never find enlightenment?, and my mother is a professional bamboo blower, what about her?
ਕਬੀਰ ਸਾਚਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਕਿਆ ਕਰੈ ਜਉ ਸਿਖਾ ਮਹਿ ਚੂਕ ॥
ਅੰਧੇ ਏਕ ਨ ਲਾਗਈ ਜਿਉ ਬਾਂਸੁ ਬਜਾਈਐ ਫੂਕ ॥੧੫੮॥
"O Kabeer! What can the True Guru do, when His Sikhs are at fault? The blind do not take in any of His Teachings; it is as useless as blowing into bamboo. ||158||"
(Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji – Ang 1372)


one liners eh!

You already answered this a while back to another poster telling them that blind here doesn't really mean blind physically lol...if you figured it out quite easily I.M sure others will also...

The blind don't take in his teachings. ..doesn't require a lot of thought to understand it's about taking in advice...and guidance lol...

 

[Original]

according to a Muslim customer anway),

...typical H ! how's that for evidence ! I cracked up laughing - thx

 

[Harkiran Kaur]

Guruji Can I eat my Vegetables without Salt?
Answer:
ਕਬੀਰ ਖੂਬੁ ਖਾਨਾ ਖੀਚਰੀ ਜਾ ਮਹਿ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਲੋਨੁ ॥
ਹੇਰਾ ਰੋਟੀ ਕਾਰਨੇ ਗਲਾ ਕਟਾਵੈ ਕਉਨੁ ॥੧੮੮॥
"O Kabeer! The dinner of beans and rice is excellent, if it is (just) flavoured with salt. I am not ready to have my own throat cut to have meat with my bread? ||188||"
(Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji - Ang 1374)


Without even looking up the shabad to me this looks to be saying that overindulgence in things is bad. Not speaking of literal beans and rice... (Like spicing up your life or having meat with your potatoes is metaphor). Now I'll look it up and see how close I was...

Yup basically. Why overindulge in Maya's pleasures when it will keep you from God... Oh sorry Ik Onkar / Waheguru since some people don't like the word God as they can't seem to separate it from Abrahamic religion.

 

[Harry Haller]

Seriously...what's your point here ? Lol



When you wake up every morning. Go with the intention not to harm anyone...self defence is quite unique don't you think? as shown by the lives of the gurus.

So again...what's your point?



Lol. It's quite obvious what the 'one liner'is getting at



NO confusion here either...lol



I.m going to ask my 11 year old nephew to contemplate this shabad tomorrow. ..I.m pretty sure he will come up with something more worthwhile than this...



You already answered this a while back to another poster telling them that blind here doesn't really mean blind physically lol...if you figured it out quite easily I.M sure others will also...

The blind don't take in his teachings. ..doesn't require a lot of thought to understand it's about taking in advice...and guidance lol...

as usual Chazji, you have completely missed the point being made, and are wasting your time on the surface, it is quite easy to justify pretty much anything using one liners from SGGS, no matter how obvious the meaning.

I am aware of one of the above quotes being used to justify women not partaking in seva due to menstruation, which is as ridiculous as pertaining to black pudding. Would you like me to mail you each time I post so that I can explain what it actually means?

 

[Harry Haller]

Guruji Can I eat my Vegetables without Salt?
Answer:
ਕਬੀਰ ਖੂਬੁ ਖਾਨਾ ਖੀਚਰੀ ਜਾ ਮਹਿ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਲੋਨੁ ॥
ਹੇਰਾ ਰੋਟੀ ਕਾਰਨੇ ਗਲਾ ਕਟਾਵੈ ਕਉਨੁ ॥੧੮੮॥
"O Kabeer! The dinner of beans and rice is excellent, if it is (just) flavoured with salt. I am not ready to have my own throat cut to have meat with my bread? ||188||"
(Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji - Ang 1374)


Without even looking up the shabad to me this looks to be saying that overindulgence in things is bad. Not speaking of literal beans and rice... (Like spicing up your life or having meat with your potatoes is metaphor). Now I'll look it up and see how close I was...

Yup basically. Why overindulge in Maya's pleasures when it will keep you from God... Oh sorry Ik Onkar / Waheguru since some people don't like the word God as they can't seem to separate it from Abrahamic religion.

you mean like some of the people who have translated SGGS with a Christian leaning?
or like some of the people who view Waheguru as a person?
or even some of the people who need forgiveness from sin in their lives?

 

[Original]

Guruji Can I eat my Vegetables without Salt?

Harkiran, where did you get this from and why ? In my view, the whole question answer synergy used to explain the writings of Bhagat Kabir's [BK], in the instant scenario is taken "completely" out of context. Not knowing the make and model of the car and then going on to advertise it for sale, what prospects of sale, if any ?

There are places within SGGSJ where the understanding and the background of the author ought to be fully known for an authentic or near authentic and correct interpretation. And, here you've cited an example where I feel, total injustice has been done because the author's intention were to a different end.

Take Charles Dickens [English Writer] for example, his writings were so influential that it shaped and mapped the mid-Victorian society of the then late 1850's, which until present day, is the forerunner to modern day British Society. His train of thought, belief, culture, etc.. plays a significant role in the understanding of his writings. Similarly, BK's background need to be known in order to interpret his writings for it helped shaped the then Hindu - Islamic Indian society and paved way for Sikhism to come into the arena. The point in question above [poem] is to an end where BK is "actually" having a disguised dig [through writing] at the Mulla [Moslem priest] for carrying out unholy acts in the name of Allah. And, since BK was a spiritualist his emphasis is on the true food of the self as opposed to the deceitful palaver created in the name of religious edification.

When communicating prose, most people are probably unaware of the extent to which the use of language necessarily involves interpretation. Even the simplest statement usually relies on an understanding of habits, knowledge, values and purposes shared between the author and the recipient of the communication.

Much obliged !.