Sikhi Thousand Lives Of Reincarnating Minds

[Harkiran Kaur]

but you and me behind our bodies are not the same, I am a madman with a wolf fixation, and you are a scholar and a thinker, we are as alike as chalk and cheese behind our physical manifestations,

I don't consider the physical body to be me, I consider my insides to be me, some call it a soul, or a spirit, I prefer to say that me is my brain, and that all that I am is contained in my brain including my so called soul and spirt, therefore I am my brain.

Actually that identity is only associated to that body... remove that identity (if you had amnesia let’s say)... you wake up and forget everything about your identity. Do YOU still exist? Did you die? No of course not. But there is no Harry Ji left ornleast his identity everything ‘inside’ that made him who he is in this life. But YOU still do exist. What I am talking about is that primal awareness when the ego identity is removed. Using amnesia as a way to explain it is best way I could think of... sorry. It’s loke when everything from memories of this life and experiences are stripped away, that primal awareness which is left behind. That’s the same... or at least it seems Gurbani is saying that is the same in all of us.

 

[RicktheSikh]

There is nothing like reincarnation. Changing forms/shapes by energy cannot be called reincarnation.

Do you mean that the phenomenon does not occur, that the entire premise is false? What is your understanding of the references to it in gurbani?

 

[Tejwant Singh]

I would wager that most Gurmukhs, if not all, have no idea that they are, to them its just life and normal, and they do it without carrots, after all, to me Sikhism stands as a religion without carrots and without whips, do what you want, deal with the consequences, learn, and keep going.

I find the thought that there should be some sort of prize for living as a Gurmukh quite offensive actually,

Thanks, HarryJi,

I had no idea you knew me so well.

 

[Harry Haller]

well we are all one , do you think you could scratch your left buttock? I have an itch

 

[Sikhilove]

Hmmm how can I coax the aha moment since you are ALMOST at the point how I see things. The only difference is you still think in terms that YOU are Ishna. What if tomorrow you woke up from an accident with absolute amnesia... meaning you can’t remeber ANY part of your identity from your whole life. You still know language etc but not your identity as Ishna. This HAS happened to many people by the way and sometimes permanent. Even though Ishna has been erased is there still an awareness there? Just because you can’t remember being Ishna does it mean YOU died??? No! Because YOU are not Ishna. Just like an actor plays a character. When the costume is removed the character is meaningless... the actor didn’t die or cease to exist. The conscious doer or observer who was the actor went on to play other parts. These identities we think we are is called the haume. The ego identity. It’s false. Remove that identity and a primal awareness of being still exists and always will exist. That primal being or awareness is one and the same in ALL. Your awareness IS that ONE awareness.

So yes there is One universal observer / Creator. That one is the same awareness of being in ALL. The observer in each human body never ceases to exist and goes on to experience others. The CHARACTER ceases to exist but the consciousness is not the character. You could say Ishna will die someday in this dream but YOU are not Ishna. Ishna is only one character YOU have played. YOU ARE the one experiencing itself. (Recognize he IS me).

At least this is how I have come to understand it through not just Gurbani but theology in general and seeing similarities in many different paths.

He sat for many ages in meditation, self contemplation and evaluation. He discovered Himself to be Sat- Truth.

He wished to share His discovery with another. Hence was the khel created- out of a pure, unconditional, selfless love.

Truth is the master, He discovered himself to be it, then gave us the opportunity to discover the same. We are all Truth- Sat, One

 

[Harry Haller]

He sat for many ages in meditation, self contemplation and evaluation. He discovered Himself to be Sat- Truth.

He wished to share His discovery with another. Hence was the khel created- out of a pure, unconditional, selfless love.

Truth is the master, He discovered himself to be it, then gave us the opportunity to discover the same. We are all Truth- Sat, One

this something I personally find quite offensive to the God as described in Sikh writings, God, In Sikhi would appear to be eternal, can eternal beings grow? can they learn? are you saying that pre God there was another entity? God Lite? Student God? Did he go through the whole phase of puberty at some point then? your implying that some being instead of being here eternally, grew, matured, learnt, please explain your reasoning and how you came to the conclusion that at some point God was not God the one we all know and love?

 

[RicktheSikh]

this something I personally find quite offensive to the God as described in Sikh writings, God, In Sikhi would appear to be eternal, can eternal beings grow? can they learn? are you saying that pre God there was another entity? God Lite? Student God? Did he go through the whole phase of puberty at some point then? your implying that some being instead of being here eternally, grew, matured, learnt, please explain your reasoning and how you came to the conclusion that at some point God was not God the one we all know and love?

It's all just conjecture and the intellectually honest individual will acknowledge it as such. Just like the mechanisms of reincarnation. No one knows, or can ever know and just yesterday I was meditating and realized that it's not my concern. It's just something that I don't need to worry about. I give myself a pass from having to have everything figured out. I'm here now, now what? It's as simple as that.

 

[Harry Haller]

It's all just conjecture and the intellectually honest individual will acknowledge it as such. Just like the mechanisms of reincarnation. No one knows, or can ever know and just yesterday I was meditating and realized that it's not my concern. It's just something that I don't need to worry about. I give myself a pass from having to have everything figured out. I'm here now, now what? It's as simple as that.

I disagree, but then, I would, everything needs some foundation, some basis, as far as I know, the Sikh one is that God is eternal, eternal things do not learn, otherwise they would not be eternal

let us go with what we know, Mool Mantra is pretty straight, no real room for misunderstanding, it is how it is,

ੴ ਸਤਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਕਰਤਾ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਨਿਰਭਉ ਨਿਰਵੈਰੁ ਅਕਾਲ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਅਜੂਨੀ ਸੈਭੰ ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
Ikoaʼnkaar saṯ naam karṯaa purakẖ nirbẖau nirvair akaal mooraṯ ajoonee saibẖun gur parsaaḏ.
“There is One Universal Creator, Sustainer & Destroyer; The Name is Truth; the Doer pervading in everything; Without Fear; Without Hate; Timeless Undying Image; Beyond Birth; Self-existing; Known through the True Guru’s Grace.”


now that, does not tally with a description of a learning God, in my very humble opinion, which is my own opinion, and I am happy to debate it, rather than force it on anyone

 

[ravneet_sb]

Sat Sri Akaal,
Mentoring lives
REINCARNATION
Inception of Human from Mutation of Animal. Various forms appeared on earth as a result of mutation.
After each Mutation there is reproduction.
RE PRODUCTION. Repeat production of basics..
Though in Human form we have animals instincts and
spirit as energy evokes animal instincts.
Humans who believes in birth of son, many a times have more children even upto 12-15 or more, which is pig instinct, to have more children.
Humans who believes in accumulating wealth are often seen pouring venom of words on others, which is snake instinct.
Humans who have greed, appraise non righteous person, as a dog woos human to get bone
The instincts are inborn in human form because of mutation and reproduction. And are alive from dead in human form.
Is it Reincarnation.
Humans live it with natural instincts in MIND and soul life energy source searches mind for human. action MANMUKH. Till human minds gets GurusBani. And make a SELFLESS service of humanity.
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

 

[Ambarsaria]

That's neither here nor there. What I'm saying is that of all the mentions of reincarnation that I have read in gurbani I have yet to come across any that flatly reject the concept. It is usually to the effect that one can escape the cycle but not that the belief itself is false.

RicktheSikh ji you may have hit a jackpot to answer your own quiz. Gurmukh is a very encouraged state of being a Sikh in SGGS. If you replace "one" with "Gurmukh" in your sntence the answer stares back at you as follows;

• Gurmukh can escape the cycle but not that the belief itself is false.

You can be confused like many here till you become Gurmukh and suddenly the cycle disappears. Your belief does not need to be proven true or false. Guess what changed. I will hazard a guess that it is your realization of what is; all is one and once you live in consonace and knowledge of this oneness, there is nothing to reincarnate into. Reincarnation is a mirage that bothers many but disappears once you become Gurmukh. Remember Gurmukh does not mean you have to be a Sikh.

Sat Sri Akal

PS: Gurmukh/ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ is referenced at least 1593 times in SGGS based on a search at srigranth.org

 

[RicktheSikh]

You can be confused like many here till you become Gurmukh and suddenly the cycle disappears. Your belief does not need to be proven true or false. Guess what changed. I will hazard a guess that it is your realization of what is; all is one and once you live in consonace and knowledge of this oneness, there is nothing to reincarnate into. Reincarnation is a mirage that bothers many but disappears once you become Gurmukh. Remember Gurmukh does not mean you have to be a Sikh.

If that is the case then i was closer to being gurmukh before i read a single line of bani and began to consider the possibility of reincarnation? Something to consider.

 

[Ishna]

If that is the case then i was closer to being gurmukh before i read a single line of bani and began to consider the possibility of reincarnation? Something to consider.

Remember the Gurbani is addressed to folks who already had reincarnation in their belief system.

 

[Ambarsaria]

If that is the case then i was closer to being gurmukh before i read a single line of bani and began to consider the possibility of reincarnation? Something to consider.

RicktheSikh ji only you can know about your full internal self. So it is a shame if you think that only thing between your state of being a Gurmukh and what you are is the distraction about reincarnation. I don't believe a person being so close to being a Gurmukh shall have any difficulty overcoming this hurdle by dropping the subject or understanding how is. You don't need to prove that something is false or of little to no value to drop it out of your being as just a distraction. Just throw it into the bucket list of things of no value or significance. Perhaps use the energy so saved to do a good deed like feed a hungry, help someone overcome their mental turmoil, lead by example that others may emulate and so on. There are so many positive options that are available when one gets rid of the junk and puts it into the junk bucket list.

Ishna ji makes an excellent observation also. SGGS addresses so many dogmas, hangups, misconceptions, mis-directions, beliefs that lot of the people coming to Sikhi or while developing as a Sikh were coming across.

Remember also folks, reincarnation is part of a toolkit in many of the world's religions in addition to heaven for the so called compliant/chosen and hell for all the others. These are tools to enforce compliance and nothing more than that.

There is much more one can write but it will clutter this thread.

Sat Sri Akal