Vegetarian Consciousness And The Meditative Mind

[Harry Haller]

If Sri Guru Grant Sahib Ji stated eating marijuana, fish, and wine is wrong....it is wrong though.....I read the rest and the context and it still says what it says

this is incorrect, it is only wrong if you eat all three together.

 

[BhagatSingh]

Harry ji,
Why is it wrong if you eat them all together?

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

My answer...
IF I am in a GURDWARA...i enjoy the dahi, lassi, daal makhnni, kheer..parathas..sabzis desi chaah pakoras, jalebis, laddoos, brfee etc etc etc..no issues etc of regret/feeling sad and down..becasue its all "tateless stuff" around me and i crave for tasty steak/zinger burger or macdonald pizza....NO WAY...

IF I am in a wedding...and there are 2 que lines of guests..I JOIN the SHORTER QUE...be it Vegetarian or Non... IF I finally arrive at the end of the Short que and find an array of watery daal, lifeless mess of ghobi egg plant etc..etc before me..I just Turn right around and join the LONG QUE....( that could be the one for kebab, chicken curry, mutton etc ) NO Issues as well

IF I am on a Plane..i look at the MENU and chose what looks DELICIOUS...same as dine out in a restaurant..diner etc... I am certainly NOT going to pay through my nose for a tasteless salad if compared to a tasty steak....simply because of vege-non issues.. Because all this has no effect on my spiritual progress...and on my pocket...BOTH in Perfect balance...i AM HAPPY.:blueturban:

 

[Harry Haller]

Harry ji,
Why is it wrong if you eat them all together?

ਕਬੀਰ ਭਾਂਗ ਮਾਛੁਲੀ ਸੁਰਾ ਪਾਨਿ ਜੋ ਜੋ ਪ੍ਰਾਨੀ ਖਾਂਹਿ ॥
Kabeer, those mortals who consume marijuana, fish and wine -
ਤੀਰਥ ਬਰਤ ਨੇਮ ਕੀਏ ਤੇ ਸਭੈ ਰਸਾਤਲਿ ਜਾਂਹਿ ॥
no matter what pilgrimages, fasts and rituals they follow, they will all go to hell. ||233||

Bhagatsinghji,

Well, you are allowed to eat them individually, just not together

 

[BhagatSingh]

Teeka FKW employed; all systems ready.

ਕਬੀਰ ਭਾਂਗ ਮਾਛੁਲੀ ਸੁਰਾ ਪਾਨਿ ਜੋ ਜੋ ਪ੍ਰਾਨੀ ਖਾਂਹਿ ॥
कबीर भांग माछुली सुरा पानि जो जो प्रानी खांहि ॥
Kabīr bẖāʼng mācẖẖulī surā pān jo jo parānī kẖāʼnhi.
Kabeer, those mortals who consume marijuana, fish and wine -

ਸ੍ਰੀ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ ਕਹਿਤੇ ਹੈਂ ਮਛੀ ਆਦਿਕੋਂ ਕਾ ਜੋ (ਭਾਂਗ) ਮਾਸ ਔਰ (ਸੁਰਾ) ਮਦਰਾ ਭਾਵ ਸ਼ਰਾਬ ਹੈ ਇਨ ਵਸਤੂ ਕੋ ਜੋ ਜੋ ਪੁਰਸ਼ ਖਾਤੇ (ਪਾਨਿ) ਪੀਤੇ ਹੈਂ॥ ਜੀਆਂ ਘਾਇ ਨ ਖਾਈਐ ਭੰਗਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ ਜੀ ਮਾਸ ਕਾ ਨਾਮ ਂਭੰਗਾਂ ਕਹਿਤੇ ਹੈਂ॥
Sri Kabir ji says that those who eat the flesh and wine from fish, etc. The author translated ਭਾਂਗ as flesh based on how the word is used by Bhai Gurdas ji: ਜੀਆਂ ਘਾਇ ਨ ਖਾਈਐ ਭੰਗਾਂ. ਭੰਗਾਂ means flesh.

ਤੀਰਥ ਬਰਤ ਨੇਮ ਕੀਏ ਤੇ ਸਭੈ ਰਸਾਤਲਿ ਜਾਂਹਿ ॥੨੩੩॥
तीरथ बरत नेम कीए ते सभै रसातलि जांहि ॥२३३॥
Ŧirath baraṯ nem kī▫e ṯe sabẖai rasāṯal jāʼnhi. ||233||
no matter what pilgrimages, fasts and rituals they follow, they will all go to hell. ||233||

ਯਦਪਿ ਤੀਰਥ ਬਰਤ ਨੇਮਾਦੀ ਸੁਭ ਕਰਮ ਭੀ ਤਿਨੋਂ ਕੇ ਕੀਏ ਹੂਏ ਹੋਵੈਂ ਤੌ ਭੀ ਉਹ (ਸਭੈ ਰਸਾਤਲ) ਨਰਕ ਕੋ ਹੀ ਜਾਤੇ ਹੈਂ ਭਾਵ ਊਚ ਗਤੀ ਜੋ ਮੋਖ ਪਦ ਹੈ ਤਿਸ ਕੋ ਪ੍ਰਾਪਤਿ ਨਹੀਂ ਹੋਤੇ ਹੈਂ ਔ ਚਉਰਾਸੀ ਮੈਂ ਹੀ ਭਰਮਤੇ ਰਹਿਤੇ ਹੈਂ॥੨੩੩॥ ❀ਅਪਨਾ ਸੰਕਲਪ ਦੇਖਾਵਤੇ ਹੈਂ॥
Even if they go on pilgrimages, hold fasts and follow religious codes, they will go to hell, meaning they will not attain a higher state that of mukti and be free from reincarnation.

Sant Kabir ji is vegetarian (and sober) Harry ji, he is telling you to stop eating meat and wine. He believes both hinder spiritual progress.

 

[Harry Haller]

ah, but only if eaten together

 

[BhagatSingh]

...because together they are 2x the spiritual hindrance

 

[Harry Haller]

ok, in all seriousness the wine is a no no, the effects are immediate and obvious even given a small quantity, but I cannot recall any obvious effect on my state of mind having just had a burger. Any effect must then have Vedic overtones, if it cannot be felt or observed, ie to do with Karma or spiritual effects, and we all know how the Gurus steered us away from that.

In my search for the ultimate high, many years ago, I sampled many many substances, strangely enough meat was not one of them...........

 

[BhagatSingh]

Well substances might give you a high and fake release from the ego but this is of no actual help. They do not provide lasting transformation and enlightenment. Meat is a bit harder to understand. It is said that meat (and substances as well) contain more of the quality of passion (the desire kind) and the quality of laziness, both are a hindrance to spiritual lifestyle. And that vegetables have less passion and laziness compared to meat.

Any effect must then have Vedic overtones, if it cannot be felt or observed, ie to do with Karma or spiritual effects, and we all know how the Gurus steered us away from that.

Because only overtones, what you disagree with, which you believe is nonsense, is Vedic. Hence what is Vedic is nonsense. Hahahha!!! lol When Kabir Ji says that wine is forbidden to the spiritual seeker, that is not Vedic, but in the same breath when he says that meat is forbidden, that is Vedic. WHA??!

Jesus Christ, listen to yourself Harry ji!

PS did you find your ultimate high?

 

[Harry Haller]

BhagatSinghji

Yes, I did, I believe the state is called Naam

Isnt it past your bedtime!

 

[Harry Haller]

Also FKW did not use this translation of Bhang universally, P721, the teeka shows the translation remains intact, cannabis.



ਭਉ ਤੇਰਾ ਭਾਂਗ ਖਲੜੀ ਮੇਰਾ ਚੀਤੁ ॥
भउ तेरा भांग खलड़ी मेरा चीतु ॥
Bẖa▫o ṯerā bẖāʼng kẖalṛī merā cẖīṯ.
O Lord, Thy fear is my hemp and my mind is the leather pouch.
ਹੇ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਤੇਰਾ ਜੋ ਭੈ ਹੈ ਸੋਈ ਮੈਨੇ ਭਾਂਗ ਕੀਤੀ ਹੈ, ਅਰ ਤਿਸ ਕੇ ਧਾਰਨੇ ਵਾਲੀ ਜੋ ਚੰਮ ਕੀ ਖਲੜੀ ਹੋਤੀ ਹੈ ਸੋ ਮੇਰਾ ਚਿਤ ਹੈ, ਭਾਵ ਯਿਹ ਸਦਾ ਹੀ ਤੇਰੇ ਭੈ ਕੋ ਮੈਨੇ ਚਿਤ ਮੈਂ ਧਾਰਨ ਕੀਆ ਹੈ॥

 

[BhagatSingh]

Harry ji,
I have never heard of Naam being called a state before. What was that like?

I have no bedtime. I do have a pass-out-when-you-run-out-of-gas time. I was meditating earlier (at a point already past my bedtime) then out of the blue I had the urge to paint. So I got up and went on my computer. I noticed Prakash ji had responded so now I am here.

 

[Harry Haller]

Goodnight, big hug, I would call the state of feeling completely connected to Creation, Naam

 

[BhagatSingh]

Also FKW did not use this translation of Bhang universally, P721, the teeka shows the translation remains intact, cannabis.

ਭਉ ਤੇਰਾ ਭਾਂਗ ਖਲੜੀ ਮੇਰਾ ਚੀਤੁ ॥
भउ तेरा भांग खलड़ी मेरा चीतु ॥
Bẖa▫o ṯerā bẖāʼng kẖalṛī merā cẖīṯ.
O Lord, Thy fear is my hemp and my mind is the leather pouch.
ਹੇ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਤੇਰਾ ਜੋ ਭੈ ਹੈ ਸੋਈ ਮੈਨੇ ਭਾਂਗ ਕੀਤੀ ਹੈ, ਅਰ ਤਿਸ ਕੇ ਧਾਰਨੇ ਵਾਲੀ ਜੋ ਚੰਮ ਕੀ ਖਲੜੀ ਹੋਤੀ ਹੈ ਸੋ ਮੇਰਾ ਚਿਤ ਹੈ, ਭਾਵ ਯਿਹ ਸਦਾ ਹੀ ਤੇਰੇ ਭੈ ਕੋ ਮੈਨੇ ਚਿਤ ਮੈਂ ਧਾਰਨ ਕੀਆ ਹੈ॥

Chit is consciousness not mind. The mind is no leather pouch, to the mind, fear is a bad thing. Mind avoids fear. Mind feels fear, consciousness holds it like a leather pouch.

In Bhagat Kabir ji's salok the he uses the word "eat" whereas bhang is drunk. Bhai Gurdas ji does use bhanga as flesh, in the context of a liberated butcher. He says just because a butcher (Sadhana) got liberated does not mean we should kill to eat bhanga (it can only mean meat).

Interestingly enough, the word bhang (without kanna) is also used to refer to hindrance as well as marijuana. Now in that shabad you posted, bhang is definitely an intoxicant because the next line is talking about an intoxicated hermit. The word bhanga (which was translated as meat) can also mean mistake/sin.

Time for breakfast. Who knew id be pulling off an all-nighter on SPN. Learned a lot though!

 

[Harry Haller]

I hate to think my only input on this forum is the argument that Bhang can also by eaten as well as drunk!


I think we can all agree that the english translations are as good as the chinese subtitles in Star Wars Episode III. Chinese bootleggers translated the english into chinese, then back into english again for the subtitles, the result makes for a very different film, it only adds to the argument that the SGGS should be read and studied in the original language only, otherwise you are watching/reading something potentially very different.

Star Wars Ep III - Backstroke of the West - YouTube

 

[BhagatSingh]

Bhang is a drink.
HOLI FESTIVAL: bhang ritual - YouTube

Actually, I am not sure I agree with that. IMO the English translations are quite good but that's coming from a place where I alread understand what's going on pretty well. There is definitely more depth in Gurmukhi and probably even more in the languages used like Braj. Someone who knows BRaj is probably getting the most out of it. The Freed Kote Wala Teeka is apparently also written in Braj.

Another EDIT: The scenes are a bad example as the movie was probably not translated by scholars who spent their entire life studying and practicing Star Wars.

 

[Harry Haller]

http://www.indianfoodforever.com/holiday-recipes/holi/bhang-pakore.html

Bhaang Pakore Recipe

Bhaang pakore is a speciality dish eaten by the people during the festival of Holi. Bhaang pakora are a popular snack during holi festivities. Here is the recipe for bhang ke pakore.




Ingredients:



250 gms Besan (gram flour)
200 gms Potatoes (aloo)
200 gms Cauliflower (gobhi)
150 gms Onions (pyaj)
100 gms Spinach (palak)
200 gms Brinjal (baigan)
10 gms Bhang (cannabis) seed powder
2 gms Soda-bicarb
5 gms Ajwain (carom seeds)
5 gms Pomegranate seed powder (anardana)
Salt to taste
Oil for deep-frying

not so fast fatso....it is also eaten

 

[BhagatSingh]

Hahaha fatso... I wish

Yes bhang pakoras exist but I have only heard of the word "bhang" being used to refer to the drink. Either way the translation hardly changes.

 

[Ambarsaria]

Hahaha fatso... I wish

Yes bhang pakoras exist but I have only heard of the word "bhang" being used to refer to the drink. Either way the translation hardly changes.

Bhagat Singh ji on a visit to India, if you go, you should try (just kidding), I have not. My father once told me a tale how teachers under him did fancy things and showed great exuberance once they were fed these in a jovial trick. Many started doing Yoga, athletics, merriment, insistence laughing, etc.

Bhang is a great multiple use vegetable. I wonder if there is something similar in meat products!

Regards. lol

 

[Harry Haller]

absolutely Ambarsariaji , its 5 day old steak tartare thats been left out on a hot day