Waheguru Simran, Nitnem, Gurbani Study: Which You Do Most And Why?

[Tejwant Singh]

Ambarsaria ji,
I hope this answers your question on why they are using the word "Waheguru". It doesn't just mean wonderful teacher, it is also referring to the teacher inside of you and God. The later being the same in non-dualism, that is, the teacher inside you is God. So no they are not calling out Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji (although if they were that would not change much).

Look how Bhai Gurdas ji poetically describes Waheguru mantr. Though one need not use it as it is just a word one uses to remember and repeatedly identify with the (inner) God.

੪੯ : ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਮੰਤ੍ਰ
Waheguru Mantra

ਸਤਿਜੁਗ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਵਾਸਦੇਵ ਵਵਾ ਵਿਸਨਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਾਵੈ।
Satijougi Satigur Vaasadayv Vavaa Visanaa Naamu Japaavai.
सतिजुगि सतिगुर वासदेव ववा विसना नामु जपावै ।
In Satyug, Visnu in the form of Vasudev is said to have incarnated and ‘V’ Of Vahiguru reminds of Visnu.

ਦੁਆਪੁਰਿ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਹਰੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਹਾਹਾ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਾਵੈ।
Duaapari Satigur Haree Krisan Haahaa Hari Hari Naamu Japaavai.
दुआपरि सतिगुर हरी क्रिसन हाहा हरि हरि नामु जपावै ।
The true Guru of dvapar is said to be Harikrsna and ‘H’ of Vahiguru reminds of Hari.


ਤ੍ਰੇਤੇ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਰਾਮ ਜੀ ਰਾਰਾ ਰਾਮ ਜਪੇ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਵੈ।
Taytay Satigur Raam Jee Raaraa Raam Japay Soukhu Paavai.
तेते सतिगुर राम जी रारा राम जपे सुखु पावै ।
In the the treta was Ram and ‘R’ of Vahiguru tells that rembering Ram will produce joy and happiness.


ਕਲਿਜੁਗਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰ ਗੋਵਿੰਦ ਗਗਾ ਗੋਵਿੰਦ ਨਾਮੁ ਅਲਾਵੈ*।
Kalijougi Naanak Gur Gobind Gagaa Gobind Naamu Alaavai.
कलिजुगि नानक गुर गोबिंद गगा गोबिंद नामु अलावै ।
In kalijug, Gobind is in the form of Guru Nanak and ‘G’ of Vahiguru gets Govind recited.


ਚਾਰੇ ਜਾਗੇ ਚਹੁ ਜੁਗੀ ਪੰਚਾਇਣ ਵਿਚਿ ਜਾਇ ਸਮਾਵੈ।
Chaaray Jaagay Chahu Jougee Panchaain Vichi Jaai Samaavai.
चारे जागे चहु जुगी पंचाइण विचि जाइ समावै ।
The recitations o f all the four ages subsume in Panchayan i.e. in the soul of the common man.


ਚਾਰੋ ਅਛਰ ਇਕੁ ਕਰਿ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜਪੁ ਮੰਤ੍ਰ ਜਪਾਵੈ*।
Chaaro Achhar Iku Kari Vaahaguroo Japu Mantr Japaavai.
चारो अछर इकु करि वाहगुरू जपु मंत्र जपावै ।
When joining four letters Vahiguru is remembered,


ਜਹਾਂ ਤੇ ਉਪਜਿਆ ਫਿਰਿ ਤਹਾਂ ਸਮਾਵੈ ॥੪੯॥੧॥
Jahaa Tay Oupajiaa Dhiri Tahaa Samaavai ॥49॥1॥
जहा ते उपजिआ फिरि तहा समावै ॥४९॥१॥
The jiv merges again in its origin.

7 ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੧ ਪਉੜੀ ੪੯ ਪੰ. ੭

Bhagat Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

The fact of the matter is that poetry of Bhai Gurdas did not pass the benchmark set by of our visionary Gurus. This is the reason it was rejected and hence not added to SGGS, our only Guru. This was our Gurus' decision which should be respected.

So, to compare Bhai Gurdas' poetry with SGGS, is not only undermining our Gurus' decision but also undermining SGGS, our only Guru. And both are not wise things to do as Sikhs.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[BhagatSingh]

but it is only a temporary connection, like taking drugs, and then coming back down to reality again

Harry ji,
It is the opposite. You are in reality when you chant and jap because you are more alert, more present, more aware of what is happening now. Look at when this is not case, during sleep. Are you in reality when you are sleeping? No you are dreaming. When you become more alert, more aware, when you awaken, you realize you were dreaming and you have just entered reality. Your chanting becomes effortless, you realize you are only aware of it and that God is the doer not you. You realize you are in Hukam. Chanting and jap is walking with that Hukam.

Dwelling on the name, you realize who the name is given to. You get a direct perception of that *thing*, that Ultimate Reality. Of course, one need not chant or jap, these are specific to Sikh tradition. There are lots of ways to get in touch with reality that are not specific to Sikh tradition.

To my experience, Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji only makes sense during such moments. Of course, it is temporary, everything is temporary but it causes real changes inside of you. It changes who you are without changing You.
It is not like a drug, there is no addiction to it. But you do realize that if you want to be in reality then you gotta do it, gotta be present.

Even though both studying and taking time off to meditate is important, the problem with studying is that it gives only theoretical knowledge. It is through meditation one gets the practical knowledge.
It is through:
Listening to Gurbani (ਸ੍ਰਵਣ)
Singing Gurbani, God's praises (ਕੀਰਤਨ)
Dwelling on God's name (ਸਿਮਰਨ)
Doing service in humility (ਸੇਵਨ)
etc
that one gets practical knowledge, direct knowledge/understanding/perception. The way to do them is through concentration, complete attention, awareness (ਧਿਆਨੁ). When you do these things you become more truthful and you start to live more truthfully as you become less afraid and anxious. Afterall, in order to live truthfully one must be connected to Truth and not be afraid to be Truthful. Speaking the Truth is a very difficult act, and fear makes it worse.

Thus living in the present, completely aware and detached from (mental) objects is the way to not only be more Truthful but also have direct knowledge of Creator and Creation. Guru Nanak rightly stated the essence of his entire bani in the first pauri. Live with the Hukam

 

[BhagatSingh]

Tejwant Singh ji,
Bhai Gurdas ji's poetry need not be in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. He is reiterating Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji (in this particular vaar at least).
ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿ ਜੀਉ ॥
वाहिगुरू वाहिगुरू वाहिगुरू वाहि जीउ ॥
vāhigurū vāhigurū vāhigurū vāhi jī▫o.
Waahay Guru, Waahay Guru, Waahay Guru, Waahay Jee-o.

ਕਵਲ ਨੈਨ ਮਧੁਰ ਬੈਨ ਕੋਟਿ ਸੈਨ ਸੰਗ ਸੋਭ ਕਹਤ ਮਾ ਜਸੋਦ ਜਿਸਹਿ ਦਹੀ ਭਾਤੁ ਖਾਹਿ ਜੀਉ ॥
कवल नैन मधुर बैन कोटि सैन संग सोभ कहत मा जसोद जिसहि दही भातु खाहि जीउ ॥
Kaval nain maḏẖur bain kot sain sang sobẖ kahaṯ mā jasoḏ jisahi ḏahī bẖāṯ kẖāhi jī▫o.
You are lotus-eyed, with sweet speech, exalted and embellished with millions of companions. Mother Yashoda invited You as Krishna to eat the sweet rice.

ਦੇਖਿ ਰੂਪੁ ਅਤਿ ਅਨੂਪੁ ਮੋਹ ਮਹਾ ਮਗ ਭਈ ਕਿੰਕਨੀ ਸਬਦ ਝਨਤਕਾਰ ਖੇਲੁ ਪਾਹਿ ਜੀਉ ॥
देखि रूपु अति अनूपु मोह महा मग भई किंकनी सबद झनतकार खेलु पाहि जीउ ॥
Ḏekẖ rūp aṯ anūp moh mahā mag bẖa▫ī kinknī sabaḏ jẖanaṯkār kẖel pāhi jī▫o.
Gazing upon Your supremely beautiful form, and hearing the musical sounds of Your silver bells tinkling, she was intoxicated with delight.

ਕਾਲ ਕਲਮ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਹਾਥਿ ਕਹਹੁ ਕਉਨੁ ਮੇਟਿ ਸਕੈ ਈਸੁ ਬੰਮ੍ਯ੍ਯੁ ਗ੍ਯ੍ਯਾਨੁ ਧ੍ਯ੍ਯਾਨੁ ਧਰਤ ਹੀਐ ਚਾਹਿ ਜੀਉ ॥
काल कलम हुकमु हाथि कहहु कउनु मेटि सकै ईसु बम्यु ग्यानु ध्यानु धरत हीऐ चाहि जीउ ॥
Kāl kalam hukam hāth kahhu ka▫un met sakai īs bamm▫yu ga▫yān ḏẖeān ḏẖaraṯ hī▫ai cẖāhi jī▫o.
Death's pen and command are in Your hands. Tell me, who can erase it? Shiva and Brahma yearn to enshrine Your spiritual wisdom in their hearts.
ਸਤਿ ਸਾਚੁ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਨਿਵਾਸੁ ਆਦਿ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਸਦਾ ਤੁਹੀ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿ ਜੀਉ ॥੧॥੬॥
सति साचु स्री निवासु आदि पुरखु सदा तुही वाहिगुरू वाहिगुरू वाहिगुरू वाहि जीउ ॥१॥६॥
Saṯ sācẖ sarī nivās āḏ purakẖ saḏā ṯuhī vāhigurū vāhigurū vāhigurū vāhi jī▫o. ||1||6||
You are forever True, the Home of Excellence, the Primal Supreme Being. Waahay Guru, Waahay Guru, Waahay Guru, Waahay Jee-o. ||1||6||

ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਪਰਮ ਧਾਮ ਸੁਧ ਬੁਧ ਨਿਰੀਕਾਰ ਬੇਸੁਮਾਰ ਸਰਬਰ ਕਉ ਕਾਹਿ ਜੀਉ ॥
राम नाम परम धाम सुध बुध निरीकार बेसुमार सरबर कउ काहि जीउ ॥
Rām nām param ḏẖām suḏẖ buḏẖ nirīkār besumār sarbar ka▫o kāhi jī▫o.
You are blessed with the Lord's Name, the supreme mansion, and clear understanding. You are the Formless, Infinite Lord; who can compare to You?
ਸੁਥਰ ਚਿਤ ਭਗਤ ਹਿਤ ਭੇਖੁ ਧਰਿਓ ਹਰਨਾਖਸੁ ਹਰਿਓ ਨਖ ਬਿਦਾਰਿ ਜੀਉ ॥
सुथर चित भगत हित भेखु धरिओ हरनाखसु हरिओ नख बिदारि जीउ ॥
Suthar cẖiṯ bẖagaṯ hiṯ bẖekẖ ḏẖari▫o harnākẖas hari▫o nakẖ biḏār jī▫o.
For the sake of the pure-hearted devotee Prahlaad, You took the form of the man-lion, to tear apart and destroy Harnaakhash with your claws.
ਸੰਖ ਚਕ੍ਰ ਗਦਾ ਪਦਮ ਆਪਿ ਆਪੁ ਕੀਓ ਛਦਮ ਅਪਰੰਪਰ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਲਖੈ ਕਉਨੁ ਤਾਹਿ ਜੀਉ ॥
संख चक्र गदा पदम आपि आपु कीओ छदम अपर्मपर पारब्रहम लखै कउनु ताहि जीउ ॥
Sankẖ cẖakar gaḏā paḏam āp āp kī▫o cẖẖaḏam aprampar pārbarahm lakẖai ka▫un ṯāhi jī▫o.
You are the Infinite Supreme Lord God; with your symbols of power, You deceived Baliraja; who can know You?

ਸਤਿ ਸਾਚੁ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਨਿਵਾਸੁ ਆਦਿ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਸਦਾ ਤੁਹੀ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿ ਜੀਉ ॥੨॥੭॥
सति साचु स्री निवासु आदि पुरखु सदा तुही वाहिगुरू वाहिगुरू वाहिगुरू वाहि जीउ ॥२॥७॥
Saṯ sācẖ sarī nivās āḏ purakẖ saḏā ṯuhī vāhigurū vāhigurū vāhigurū vāhi jī▫o. ||2||7||
You are forever True, the Home of Excellence, the Primal Supreme Being. Waahay Guru, Waahay Guru, Waahay Guru, Waahay Jee-o. ||2||7||

ਪੀਤ ਬਸਨ ਕੁੰਦ ਦਸਨ ਪ੍ਰਿਆ ਸਹਿਤ ਕੰਠ ਮਾਲ ਮੁਕਟੁ ਸੀਸਿ ਮੋਰ ਪੰਖ ਚਾਹਿ ਜੀਉ ॥
पीत बसन कुंद दसन प्रिआ सहित कंठ माल मुकटु सीसि मोर पंख चाहि जीउ ॥
Pīṯ basan kunḏ ḏasan pari▫a sahiṯ kanṯẖ māl mukat sīs mor pankẖ cẖāhi jī▫o.
As Krishna, You wear yellow robes, with teeth like jasmine flowers; You dwell with Your lovers, with Your mala around Your neck, and You joyfully adorn Your head with the crow of pea{censored} feathers.
.
.
.
pg 1402

Ram, Vasudev, Harikrishna are being referred to as Waheguru here.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

.........but then Guru Arjun Ji states..OH SLEEP..let me sleep some more....and not be awake..becasue my Beloved came in my sleep..and I dont want to be separated form Him....and then again..Guru Ji says..OH SLEEP..GO AWAY..depart...and leave me awake..becasue I am in the company of my Beloved and dont wnat to go to sleep and break that connection....so its "REALITY" when there is a CONNECTION...it doesnt matter asleep or awake..He WAKES some from sleep..and He puts the awake to sleep..as HE WILLS. Some ignornats see an apparent contradiction in Guru Jis words..but in relaity there is NONE..Guru Ji knows that the Vital moment is that in which the " the ringing has stopped and the ....Call is being answered..a connection is in place..downloading/uploading" is at top speed....Night or Day..winter or summer..travelling or at rest..

 

[BhagatSingh]

Gyani ji, you are right. There is no contradiction. Guru Arjan Dev ji is Simaraning (more alert, more aware) in his sleep because he has that connection.

How come you decided to vote "None"? Don't you do simran, nitnem and vichar?

 

[Ambarsaria]

Gyani ji, you are right. There is no contradiction. Guru Arjan Dev ji is Simaraning (more alert, more aware) in his sleep because he has that connection.

How come you decided to vote "None"? Don't you do simran, nitnem and vichar?

Bhagat Singh veer ji what you think happens for the times when we are sleeping when dreams cannot be remembered from? Could it be the time of meditation versus agitation where agitation is when dreams are vivid and good, bad or beautiful.

One day you wake up refresh and the other day you don't while you remember no dreams. Could it be that in one case your soul was at peace from your understanding/Nitnem/Simran and another day it is not.

I do want to cite an experience from childhood.

We were told if we were bothered to do Kirtan Sohila path before sleeping. I don't know if it was parental trick but it worked most of the time. Mind you this would have been done with little understanding of the Gurbani. So may be the Gurbani has vibes or such routines are very worthwhile practical tools for Sikhs to carry out everyday living.

Just musing I don't know the answer.:interestedmunda:

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[ravneet_sb]

Sat Sri Akaal,

Ambarsaria Ji,

This is a very nice post, and this is way of Sikhi

Understand "EGO" or "Death"

or

"Dead" being live

Shed "EGO" humbly bow down in "Sat Sangat"

Seek 10th Door, Door of Liberation,

Achieve on Death or While living,

Make "EGO" go

understand mind in your "Imaginative Thought"

Imagine "Word" and "Realise World"

Imagine "Guru's Bani" or "Nit Nem" or "Naam"

Understand "Gobind" "Go" is "Earth" and "Bind" is originator it one and all same.

One can show the door, one has to enter leaving his "self" or "EGO"

It is enticed with "Maya"

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa

 

[ravneet_sb]

Sat Sri Akaal,

Sleep has three phases,

In the first phase, our active mind has role, orr desires, discontent appears.

Human body is connected to concious mind.

Once sleep is induced, our concious mind is at rest, and body gets connected to
subconcious mind, that is mid way of sleep,

Desire and discontent of subconcious mind appears.

At third stage, desire in the form or air is settled, and our body is connected with
pure, unconcious mind, and our mind is awakened, but one is in deep sleep.

More mind has desire and discontent his stage ! sleep is more.

So saints have no self desire for materials, and hence no discontent,
thoughts are settled in awakened mode also.

When body is connected to pure mind, it is awakened state,

People who seek for material/sonetc with folded hands are enticed with "MAYA"

Body is slave of unconcious and subconcious mind.


Listen Asa Mehal 9th, everything is said, mind shall be available to listen.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

 

[ravneet_sb]

Sat Sri Akaal,

Understand Mehal 9, It's all there.

Lets understand more of formations, human has animal as origin,

Our pure mind unconcious mind Part 1

Understand mind of animal, it is imaginative.
But has animal instincts.

After than there is vocal brain recent or mamallian brain

It forms subconcious and active mind

Part 2 and Part 3 of mind hinders approach to part 1 of mind.

That's why "Guru's Bani" is formed in "Raag" while repeating the same thought
it may strike third stage.

Stronger stage 2 and Stage3

Stage 1 is difficult to access

Our five basic instincts are lying there, shed stage 2 and stage 1

To form human mind, unconciously, subconciously, and conicously,

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Wahhefur Ji Ki Fateh.

 

[Ambarsaria]

ravneet_sb ji where you think ਜਿੰਦ/ਰੂਹ (SOUL) resides in terms of being in-charge of mind and is most active,

1. ਜਾਗਦਾ (Physically awake)
2. ਝੌਕੇ ਲੈਂਦਾ (Drowsy, hallucinating, dreamy)
3. ਅੱਦਾ-ਸੁੱਤਾ (Half asleep, dreams, etc.)
4. ਪੂਰਾ ਸੁੱਤਾ (Deep sleep)

This might give us some clues as to how Vahaiguru Simran, Nitnem, Katha and meditation are impacting and why. I hazard a guess that soul in the forth increases as you move from 1 to 4 in the above list. Nothing scientific just observation and conjecture.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[ravneet_sb]

Ambarsaria Ji,

Very Truth Got It.

Understand and take more.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki FAateh

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Gyani ji, you are right. There is no contradiction. Guru Arjan Dev ji is Simaraning (more alert, more aware) in his sleep because he has that connection.

How come you decided to vote "None"? Don't you do simran, nitnem and vichar?

I voted "NONE" because i dont do them the way most think it should be done....I prefer to "LIVE" Gurbani...japposatnamwaheguru:

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Tejwant Singh ji,
Bhai Gurdas ji's poetry need not be in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. He is reiterating Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji (in this particular vaar at least).
ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿ ਜੀਉ ॥
वाहिगुरू वाहिगुरू वाहिगुरू वाहि जीउ ॥
vāhigurū vāhigurū vāhigurū vāhi jī▫o.
Waahay Guru, Waahay Guru, Waahay Guru, Waahay Jee-o.

ਕਵਲ ਨੈਨ ਮਧੁਰ ਬੈਨ ਕੋਟਿ ਸੈਨ ਸੰਗ ਸੋਭ ਕਹਤ ਮਾ ਜਸੋਦ ਜਿਸਹਿ ਦਹੀ ਭਾਤੁ ਖਾਹਿ ਜੀਉ ॥
कवल नैन मधुर बैन कोटि सैन संग सोभ कहत मा जसोद जिसहि दही भातु खाहि जीउ ॥
Kaval nain maḏẖur bain kot sain sang sobẖ kahaṯ mā jasoḏ jisahi ḏahī bẖāṯ kẖāhi jī▫o.
You are lotus-eyed, with sweet speech, exalted and embellished with millions of companions. Mother Yashoda invited You as Krishna to eat the sweet rice.

ਦੇਖਿ ਰੂਪੁ ਅਤਿ ਅਨੂਪੁ ਮੋਹ ਮਹਾ ਮਗ ਭਈ ਕਿੰਕਨੀ ਸਬਦ ਝਨਤਕਾਰ ਖੇਲੁ ਪਾਹਿ ਜੀਉ ॥
देखि रूपु अति अनूपु मोह महा मग भई किंकनी सबद झनतकार खेलु पाहि जीउ ॥
Ḏekẖ rūp aṯ anūp moh mahā mag bẖa▫ī kinknī sabaḏ jẖanaṯkār kẖel pāhi jī▫o.
Gazing upon Your supremely beautiful form, and hearing the musical sounds of Your silver bells tinkling, she was intoxicated with delight.

ਕਾਲ ਕਲਮ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਹਾਥਿ ਕਹਹੁ ਕਉਨੁ ਮੇਟਿ ਸਕੈ ਈਸੁ ਬੰਮ੍ਯ੍ਯੁ ਗ੍ਯ੍ਯਾਨੁ ਧ੍ਯ੍ਯਾਨੁ ਧਰਤ ਹੀਐ ਚਾਹਿ ਜੀਉ ॥
काल कलम हुकमु हाथि कहहु कउनु मेटि सकै ईसु बम्यु ग्यानु ध्यानु धरत हीऐ चाहि जीउ ॥
Kāl kalam hukam hāth kahhu ka▫un met sakai īs bamm▫yu ga▫yān ḏẖeān ḏẖaraṯ hī▫ai cẖāhi jī▫o.
Death's pen and command are in Your hands. Tell me, who can erase it? Shiva and Brahma yearn to enshrine Your spiritual wisdom in their hearts.
ਸਤਿ ਸਾਚੁ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਨਿਵਾਸੁ ਆਦਿ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਸਦਾ ਤੁਹੀ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿ ਜੀਉ ॥੧॥੬॥
सति साचु स्री निवासु आदि पुरखु सदा तुही वाहिगुरू वाहिगुरू वाहिगुरू वाहि जीउ ॥१॥६॥
Saṯ sācẖ sarī nivās āḏ purakẖ saḏā ṯuhī vāhigurū vāhigurū vāhigurū vāhi jī▫o. ||1||6||
You are forever True, the Home of Excellence, the Primal Supreme Being. Waahay Guru, Waahay Guru, Waahay Guru, Waahay Jee-o. ||1||6||

ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਪਰਮ ਧਾਮ ਸੁਧ ਬੁਧ ਨਿਰੀਕਾਰ ਬੇਸੁਮਾਰ ਸਰਬਰ ਕਉ ਕਾਹਿ ਜੀਉ ॥
राम नाम परम धाम सुध बुध निरीकार बेसुमार सरबर कउ काहि जीउ ॥
Rām nām param ḏẖām suḏẖ buḏẖ nirīkār besumār sarbar ka▫o kāhi jī▫o.
You are blessed with the Lord's Name, the supreme mansion, and clear understanding. You are the Formless, Infinite Lord; who can compare to You?
ਸੁਥਰ ਚਿਤ ਭਗਤ ਹਿਤ ਭੇਖੁ ਧਰਿਓ ਹਰਨਾਖਸੁ ਹਰਿਓ ਨਖ ਬਿਦਾਰਿ ਜੀਉ ॥
सुथर चित भगत हित भेखु धरिओ हरनाखसु हरिओ नख बिदारि जीउ ॥
Suthar cẖiṯ bẖagaṯ hiṯ bẖekẖ ḏẖari▫o harnākẖas hari▫o nakẖ biḏār jī▫o.
For the sake of the pure-hearted devotee Prahlaad, You took the form of the man-lion, to tear apart and destroy Harnaakhash with your claws.
ਸੰਖ ਚਕ੍ਰ ਗਦਾ ਪਦਮ ਆਪਿ ਆਪੁ ਕੀਓ ਛਦਮ ਅਪਰੰਪਰ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਲਖੈ ਕਉਨੁ ਤਾਹਿ ਜੀਉ ॥
संख चक्र गदा पदम आपि आपु कीओ छदम अपर्मपर पारब्रहम लखै कउनु ताहि जीउ ॥
Sankẖ cẖakar gaḏā paḏam āp āp kī▫o cẖẖaḏam aprampar pārbarahm lakẖai ka▫un ṯāhi jī▫o.
You are the Infinite Supreme Lord God; with your symbols of power, You deceived Baliraja; who can know You?

ਸਤਿ ਸਾਚੁ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਨਿਵਾਸੁ ਆਦਿ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਸਦਾ ਤੁਹੀ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿ ਜੀਉ ॥੨॥੭॥
सति साचु स्री निवासु आदि पुरखु सदा तुही वाहिगुरू वाहिगुरू वाहिगुरू वाहि जीउ ॥२॥७॥
Saṯ sācẖ sarī nivās āḏ purakẖ saḏā ṯuhī vāhigurū vāhigurū vāhigurū vāhi jī▫o. ||2||7||
You are forever True, the Home of Excellence, the Primal Supreme Being. Waahay Guru, Waahay Guru, Waahay Guru, Waahay Jee-o. ||2||7||

ਪੀਤ ਬਸਨ ਕੁੰਦ ਦਸਨ ਪ੍ਰਿਆ ਸਹਿਤ ਕੰਠ ਮਾਲ ਮੁਕਟੁ ਸੀਸਿ ਮੋਰ ਪੰਖ ਚਾਹਿ ਜੀਉ ॥
पीत बसन कुंद दसन प्रिआ सहित कंठ माल मुकटु सीसि मोर पंख चाहि जीउ ॥
Pīṯ basan kunḏ ḏasan pari▫a sahiṯ kanṯẖ māl mukat sīs mor pankẖ cẖāhi jī▫o.
As Krishna, You wear yellow robes, with teeth like jasmine flowers; You dwell with Your lovers, with Your mala around Your neck, and You joyfully adorn Your head with the crow of pea{censored} feathers.
.
.
.
pg 1402

Ram, Vasudev, Harikrishna are being referred to as Waheguru here.

Bhagat Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

Bhai Gurdas ji's poetry need not be in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. He is reiterating Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji (in this particular vaar at least).

This is your personal opinion which undermines and insults our Gurus' decision who rejected Bhai Gurdas' poetry as not being at par the the standards they had for someone's poetry to be added in the SGGS, our only Guru. This is also the reason, many Saloks by Bhagat Kabir that did not jive with the Sikhi benchmark were rejected. The same can be said for the whole poetry Bhai Gurdas' and Bhai Nand Lal's.

The fact still remains the same no matter how people try to twist it and many do. If they can not respect our Gurus's decisions then they are incapable of respecting our now living Guru SGGS, which is a shame.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[BhagatSingh]

Hahahha! lol
Tejwant Singh ji,
That shabad is from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. My point is Bhai Gurdas ji's vaar (which I posted in a reply to Ambarsaria ji) is reiterating that shabad on page 1402 (which was in a reply to you) and other shabads with a similar theme.

Note the use of Waheguru as a Mantra in that shabad from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji: ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿ ਜੀਉ ॥ Then note the follow up tuks. http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/gener...an-nitnem-gurbani-study-you-3.html#post157544
Now look at Bhai Gurdas ji's poetic interpretation of the word Waheguru mantra. http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/gener...an-nitnem-gurbani-study-you-2.html#post157538

It is clearly a reiteration.

If Bhai Gurdas ji's Vaars are reiterating Gurbani then there would not be a need to add them in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, nor would it be insulting to anyone. If considering his work is insulting or undermining anything it is your own beliefs. You seem to have personal issues with this for some reason.

Plus Guru Arjan Dev ji would never have had a scholarly scribe whose views differed from his own. It would be common sense to choose somebody who held the same beliefs as you.

Anyways, I have posted the shabad as it is gives "Waheguru" some meaning. This seems to be the only place where it is used, other than Bhai Gurdas ji's Vaars.

Gurfateh

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Hahahha! lol
Tejwant Singh ji,
That shabad is from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. My point is Bhai Gurdas ji's vaar (which I posted in a reply to Ambarsaria ji) is reiterating that shabad on page 1402 (which was in a reply to you) and other shabads with a similar theme.

Note the use of Waheguru as a Mantra in that shabad from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji: ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿ ਜੀਉ ॥ Then note the follow up tuks. http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/gener...an-nitnem-gurbani-study-you-3.html#post157544
Now look at Bhai Gurdas ji's poetic interpretation of the word Waheguru mantra. http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/gener...an-nitnem-gurbani-study-you-2.html#post157538

It is clearly a reiteration.

If Bhai Gurdas ji's Vaars are reiterating Gurbani then there would not be a need to add them in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, nor would it be insulting to anyone. If considering his work is insulting or undermining anything it is your own beliefs. You seem to have personal issues with this for some reason.

Plus Guru Arjan Dev ji would never have had a scholarly scribe whose views differed from his own. It would be common sense to choose somebody who held the same beliefs as you.

Anyways, I have posted the shabad as it is gives "Waheguru" some meaning. This seems to be the only place where it is used, other than Bhai Gurdas ji's Vaars.

Gurfateh

Bhagat Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

I am very well aware of what is in the SGGS. I re posted the whole post on purpose.

You can giggle as much as you want to but the facts remain the same. Your own personal opinions do not count against Guru Sahib's. They only show your undermining their vision and decision.This was my reason to re-post the whole page.

As far as your prejudgement as usual about myself having personal issues with Bhai Gurdas, your premise is baseless as usual. I am stating the facts about his poetry not passing the benchmark set by our Gurus and this decision should be respected. Period.

For me SGGS is our only Guru and Gurbani in it is our only guide as as Sikhs.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

Ambarsaria ji,

Guru Fateh.

It is not your fault. It is the syntax of our native languages that make us pronounce and write in a wrong manner. We invert V for W and vice versa in English, just like the Germans.

That is why I always write Vaheguru rather than Waheguru because ਵ is V not W.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

Even Vaheguru is not correct.You are representing the matra sihari with letter e and guru word does not indicate whether u is for AUKAD or DUlakad matra.This needs consideration for writing any correct word even in translitration.
With regards
Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Even Vaheguru is not correct.You are representing the matra sihari with letter e and guru word does not indicate whether u is for AUKAD or DUlakad matra.This needs consideration for writing any correct word even in translitration.
With regards
Prakash.S.Bagga

Prakash Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

Sorry to disappoint you, but there is no matra in English. You are making things up to prove, I have no idea what point?

My post only stated the difference between the pronunciation of V & W. The two words using these letters are inverted when people of Indian origin talk using the words. It is a cultural thing. The Germans do the same.

That was my only point and remains so. Sadly, you are playing the same tricks as you played in the other thread about Ik Ong Kaar which is the way I write that is different than yours when the whole discussion was on your false claim about "only the rare Sikhs" which I contested. It seems you get offended when challenged or when someone offers a different viewpoint than yours. Our interaction had nothing to do with how you and I write Ik Ong Kaar.

I respect your knowledge of Punjabi grammar in the SGGS, our only Guru, but please give yourself a chance to give the benefit of the doubt to others who may also possess the same albeit not at your level, the one you claim.

The latest example is your incorrect claim that with Sihari in Hari Raam makes the word an adjective. In fact it is a compound noun with a preposition as a rule, the rule you agreed with me when I talked about Bhagat with Sihari. One can not make the rules at will or as one goes along.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

Prakash Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

Sorry to disappoint you, but there is no matra in English. You are making things up to prove, I have no idea what point?

My post only stated the difference between the pronunciation of V & W. The two words using these letters are inverted when people of Indian origin talk using the words. It is a cultural thing. The Germans do the same.

That was my only point and remains so. Sadly, you are playing the same tricks as you played in the other thread about Ik Ong Kaar which is the way I write that is different than yours when the whole discussion was on your false claim about "only the rare Sikhs" which I contested. It seems you get offended when challenged or when someone offers a different viewpoint than yours. Our interaction had nothing to do with how you and I write Ik Ong Kaar.

I respect your knowledge of Punjabi grammar in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru, but please give yourself a chance to give the benefit of the doubt to others who may also possess the same albeit not at your level, the one you claim.

The latest example is your incorrect claim that with Sihari in Hari Raam makes the word an adjective. In fact it is a compound noun with a preposition as a rule, the rule you agreed with me when I talked about Bhagat with Sihari. One can not make the rules at will or as one goes along.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh

If we can not depict matras in english words for Gurmukhi words of Gurbani then I think it is very difficult or even impossible to understand Gurbani as per english words.
Your Ik OngKaar pronunciation is totally out of SGGS this is What I feel about this .Had it been EK Ong Kaar it would have been fine.For this we will have to understand the difference in the meanings of the words IK and EK.
The Word HARi with a matra of sihairiis an adjective I still maintain but I nevr wrote for the word RAAM like that.
The application of matra of sihari on any Noun word makes is Transitive Noun not the proposition.Any way You may have your own understanding
I have no right to question that.
With regrds
Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[Ambarsaria]

If we can not depict matras in english words for Gurmukhi words of Gurbani then I think it is very difficult or even impossible to understand Gurbani as per english words.

Prakash Singh Bagga ji the underlined makes no sense. Since people have not employed a phonetics expert to transliterate Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji does not imply it cannot be understood. No one is saying one cannot do proper transliteration or translation of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Being poetry Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji cannot even be translated perfectly in Punjabi prose. So always the attempt is to make minimum errors and not be perfect.

"THERE IS NO PERFECT TRANSLATION INTO PROSE OF ANY POETRY".
​

This is a well understood and accepted idiom in Literature.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

If we can not depict matras in english words for Gurmukhi words of Gurbani then I think it is very difficult or even impossible to understand Gurbani as per english words.
Your Ik OngKaar pronunciation is totally out of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji this is What I feel about this .Had it been EK Ong Kaar it would have been fine.For this we will have to understand the difference in the meanings of the words IK and EK.
The Word HARi with a matra of sihairiis an adjective I still maintain but I nevr wrote for the word RAAM like that.
The application of matra of sihari on any Noun word makes is Transitive Noun not the proposition.Any way You may have your own understanding
I have no right to question that.
With regrds
Prakash.S.Bagga

Prakash singh ji,

Guru fateh.

Thanks for the non-response response. Let me explain the last time. My only point was between the words that start with V & W and how they are pronounced by the people of Indian origin.

As mentioned before Ik or Ek is not the point. Now you are changing your tune again. First you also rejected ONG. But anyway the number ੧ in Punjabi/Gurmukhi is pronounced as IK not EK. EK is a Hindi word derived from Sanskrit which is also used in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as a word, not as a number.

Secondly, there is no such thing as Transitive Noun in the English language nor in any other language derived from Sanskrit as you incorrectly claimed. This is something that does not exist.

However, there are Transitive and Intransitive verbs. You seem confused between the Noun and the Verb.

If you want me to explain the difference between the 2 verbs, please do not hesitate to ask and I shall do that.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh