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Gurus Was Guru Nanak God?

Apr 20, 2006
80
4
Dear friends DrKhalsaji, aad0002ji, badmashji

I have been following your dialogue with interest.
May I ask you friends to delve even deeper into what you loosely term as 'namdhari'; by which I assume you mean Namdhari philosphy.

'Namdhari' is a term which was given to those Sikhs who having discoverd who the ongoing 12 Guru was, came to His Charan to recieve the Amrit of NAAM. At that time, in the evening of the shortlived Khalsa Emipre, most Sikhs had embroiled themselves in the spoils of war victories over the Moguls. Satguru Ram singhji reintroduced the Maryadha He had given to His Sikhs in His 10th Avtaar. Of course those whom He reintiated started to recite Naam. Those, like today who were caught in the net of Kalyug started to tease those who recited Naam and jokingly called them 'Naamdhariae'. Hence the name stuck.

All Gurus' Sikhs must be 'Naam - Dhari', for Naam is the ambrosial Nectar given to us by our Guru.

It is the first gift a Seeker of God asks for from his Guru.

'Samrath Guru sir Hath Dhario, Gur kenee kirpa Hari Naam deo'
 
Jul 10, 2006
918
77
Dear friends DrKhalsaji, aad0002ji, badmashji

I have been following your dialogue with interest.
May I ask you friends to delve even deeper into what you loosely term as 'namdhari'; by which I assume you mean Namdhari philosphy.

'Namdhari' is a term which was given to those Sikhs who having discoverd who the ongoing 12 Guru was, came to His Charan to recieve the Amrit of NAAM. At that time, in the evening of the shortlived Khalsa Emipre, most Sikhs had embroiled themselves in the spoils of war victories over the Moguls. Satguru Ram singhji reintroduced the Maryadha He had given to His Sikhs in His 10th Avtaar. Of course those whom He reintiated started to recite Naam. Those, like today who were caught in the net of Kalyug started to tease those who recited Naam and jokingly called them 'Naamdhariae'. Hence the name stuck.

All Gurus' Sikhs must be 'Naam - Dhari', for Naam is the ambrosial Nectar given to us by our Guru.

It is the first gift a Seeker of God asks for from his Guru.

'Samrath Guru sir Hath Dhario, Gur kenee kirpa Hari Naam deo'

Dear 'Sikh Naamdhari',

Now I know why Naamdharis are not well received!.. From what I gather in your post is, that Naamdharis do not believe in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji as they do not obey Guru Gobind Singh Ji's command in ending the "human" Guruship lineage at this stage. :shock:

From what I gather, Naamdharis have their own Guru's after Guru Gobind Singh ji. And it seems that Naamdhari's need to recieve "naam" from a Living Guru if I am not mistaken from our post. Wow, this means that Naamdahris do not actually think much of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji ie "shabad Naam"...

My word!!. How can Sikhi survive when Naamdahris are making up their own version of Sikhi? I feel that this is even a worst threat to the dilution of Sikhi than the threat from RSS, fake Baba's etc etc. Oh dear!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do your living Guru's really think that they in the same status as Guru Nanak Dev Ji..Wow.. I am shocked!!! Flabbergasted..:hmm:
 

simpy

SPNer
Mar 28, 2006
1,133
126
Dear 'Sikh Naamdhari',


My word!!. How can Sikhi survive when Naamdahris are making up their own version of Sikhi? I feel that this is even a worst threat to the dilution of Sikhi than the threat from RSS, fake Baba's etc etc. Oh dear!!!!!!!!!!!!


Respected Kaur-1 Ji,

you are absolutely correct if these folks will keep on criticizing Sikhs(as veer/bhain 'Sikh Nirankari Ji' did in few of his/her posts), yes. they can live whatever way they are living, and let us live our way. OUR WAY OF LIFE IS PERFECT FOR US. NOBODY SHOULD OBJECT ON IT. OTHERS WHO CANNOT UNDERSTAND THIS WAY, CAN HAVE THEIR OWN WAY.


And the wise thing for us to do is -do not shake our own faith. Be firm and make sure our fellow Sikh Brothers and Sisters (as many we can reach out) are also doing the same.

Let us make it sure that ourselves and our coming generations have the resources to learn Gurmukhi, IT IS VERY IMPORTANT. And let us create as much literature as possible. Those who can write- write about our values, Gurus, Gursikhs...; those who can compose poetry, do that in this context: those who can make movies, make movies on this context and so on..... Try to do as much as possible for our coming generations and those who convert into Sikhs, so that they have an endless ocean of literature on SIKHI.


So many have tried to kill our Soul. WELL, SOUL NEVER DIES. and WE CAN ENRICH OUR SOUL by making sincere efforts.

When we will be strong nothing can harm us, others can live their way and let us make our way so unconditional that no outer Maya da Roop can touch it.



forgive me please
 
Nov 29, 2006
119
0
WHAT IS SIKH
Respected Kaur-1 Ji,

you are absolutely correct if these folks will keep on criticizing Sikhs(as veer/bhain 'Sikh Nirankari Ji' did in few of his/her posts), yes. they can live whatever way they are living, and let us live our way. OUR WAY OF LIFE IS PERFECT FOR US. NOBODY SHOULD OBJECT ON IT. OTHERS WHO CANNOT UNDERSTAND THIS WAY, CAN HAVE THEIR OWN WAY.


And the wise thing for us to do is -do not shake our own faith. Be firm and make sure our fellow Sikh Brothers and Sisters (as many we can reach out) are also doing the same.

Let us make it sure that ourselves and our coming generations have the resources to learn Gurmukhi, IT IS VERY IMPORTANT. And let us create as much literature as possible. Those who can write- write about our values, Gurus, Gursikhs...; those who can compose poetry, do that in this context: those who can make movies, make movies on this context and so on..... Try to do as much as possible for our coming generations and those who convert into Sikhs, so that they have an endless ocean of literature on SIKHI.


So many have tried to kill our Soul. WELL, SOUL NEVER DIES. and WE CAN ENRICH OUR SOUL by making sincere efforts.

When we will be strong nothing can harm us, others can live their way and let us make our way so unconditional that no outer Maya da Roop can touch it.



forgive me please
 
Apr 2, 2007
2
0
Wheguruji da khalsa Waheguruji di Fateh to all
Dear kaur-1 ji i agree with u somewhere but u r wrong (sorry if i become rude) in this way that Naamdharis do not believe in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji as they do not obey Guru Gobind Singh Ji's command in ending the "human" Guruship lineage at this stage. They do belive every one believe in one almighty god sometimes even we can think of same afterall we all are humans of same kind just of different thinking. He was god because he saved so may lives we are his children and having no write to point towards him and ask "Are u really ur father?"
 

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
SPNer
Jun 17, 2004
14,500
19,219
Naamdari ji,

How glad I am that you asked your question directly. In another thread I discovered that you have a great sense of humor (talking about your sister), so I have little hesitation in presenting my concerns.

Many people reading the forum have never heard of Naamdari. For me the forum was the first time ever. So to understand what was going on I had to do research. It wasn't very extensive because I had only an hour or so to linger on the Internet.

What I read was interesting. Someone like me who has been drawn to Sikhi for less than 2 years needs a context for what is a wealth of history that is culturally, historically and politically complex. I found nothing that suggested that Naamdari are not Sikhs. To the contrary, most accept the fact that Naamdari are indeed a sect of the Sikh faith.

The arguments you refer to are swarming with concerns, less about Naamdari as a believing people, and more about two things: the inviolate truth of Siri Guru Granth Sahib, and a much more complex philosophical question about "living gurus" in human form. I put that crudely I know. Personally I cannot subscribe to the idea that there can be living Guru's in human form, only in liiving gurus in human form who are teachers with wisdom to share. The last Guru is all I need. But that is not my point in responding to you.

The fact is, all that I read tells me that Naamdari are devout and pious. There is much in your history that is admirable. There is much that I myself admire and agree with. Giving an example of a person who is not looking for a fight but for insight.

You can help this conversation by sharing many different kinds of insights, but DrKahlsa is correct about suggesting a separate thread (which he started so this could happen). That is important, because unless you do that, everything you have to say will continue to get tangled up in several other discussions that are really about gurus and their followers who are on ego trips (not you). Nothing constructive will be accomplished, and everyone will become frustrated.

Only with respect




 

sikh_taz

SPNer
Apr 3, 2007
6
1
I have not gone thru' the discussion, but my view is god never take birth. As who born will die someday. Guru Nanak Dev Ji born and jyoti jyot smaye, so we can not say he was god. But, yes, he has become God as he merged into God.
 

simpy

SPNer
Mar 28, 2006
1,133
126
I have not gone thru' the discussion, but my view is god never take birth. As who born will die someday. Guru Nanak Dev Ji born and jyoti jyot smaye, so we can not say he was god. But, yes, he has become God as he merged into God.


Respected Sikh_taz Ji,

Guru Ji is-WHAT YOUR MIND PERCEIVE GURU JI TO BE,
and everybody is at a different state of mind, so have their own perception.

Guru Ji is not limited to physical body only- nobody is. It is All WaheGuru's Sargun Saroop- Oneness manifested in manyness(infiniteness).

forgive me please
 
Feb 14, 2006
512
31
I have been following your dialogue with interest.
May I ask you friends to delve even deeper into what you loosely term as 'namdhari'; by which I assume you mean Namdhari philosphy.

'Namdhari' is a term which was given to those Sikhs who having discoverd who the ongoing 12 Guru was, came to His Charan to recieve the Amrit of NAAM. At that time, in the evening of the shortlived Khalsa Emipre, most Sikhs had embroiled themselves in the spoils of war victories over the Moguls.

Satguru Ram singhji reintroduced the Maryadha He had given to His Sikhs in His 10th Avtaar. Of course those whom He reintiated started to recite Naam. Those, like today who were caught in the net of Kalyug started to tease those who recited Naam and jokingly called them 'Naamdhariae'. Hence the name stuck.

All Gurus' Sikhs must be 'Naam - Dhari', for Naam is the ambrosial Nectar given to us by our Guru. It is the first gift a Seeker of God asks for from his Guru.

This guy is a missionary that's what's annoying. He's a preacher. That's why a thread about "is Guru Nanak Dev Ji God" is hijacked into basically "is Jagjit Singh Naamdhari your guru." What's his message? He keeps telling us we have it all wrong, that Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is NOT Final Guru. He wants us to hear his dedhari guru's interpretation of (Adi Granth and Dasam Granth). He wants us to realize his 'guru' is our Guru and in his words, "become Naamdhari!" (Which means be reinitiated and receive Naam from Jagjit Singh Namdhari.) Reinitiated? So we are not a valid Sikh as we are. As he says, we MUST be Naam-dhari. He is after conversions.

Matha tekk to any master other than Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and you do beadbi of ShabadGuru Maharaaj. You are turning your back on Guru Ji and are no longer His Sikh. Naamdhari = NOT a Sikh. Sikhs don't need to "delve deeper" into Naamdhari distortions of Gurbani to challenge legitimacy of Gurgaddi. We know who our Guru Ji is, and it isn't Jagjit Singh Naamdhari!

The missionary agenda is to challenge Sikhs on these vital questions and undermine our faith. They need to instill doubt so people will be receptive to the possibility of "Naamdhari truth." His very name is Sikh Namdhari. The whole point? He wants people to believe that Naamdhari is just another version of Sikhi, which it isn't. Distortions, confusions, blurring the distinctions between what we believe, preaching. Why?

f2-1-655.jpg

mata tekking to the "satguru" Jagjit Singh Namdhari = NOT a Sikh!
Namdharis worship this man as their True Master.

The dedhari "satguru" claims he is a part of sanatan Hindu Dharam. Hindu = NOT a Sikh! The dedhari "satguru" is a member of RSS-BJP-VHP from whom he receives lavish donations to promote return of Sikhs to the Hindu fold.

group2.JPG

"H.H. (his holiness) Jagjit Singhji Maharaj, of the Namdhari Sikh tradition" per the caption.
From the World Council of Religious Leaders led by Swami Chidanand Saraswatiji.
This is the representation of Sikhi? To go there as Maharaj?
Parmarth Update - June 2002


Satguru Jagjit Singh, Namdhari -Two UK NRIs gifted high-end luxury, Rs 5.18 crore
Panthic Weekly: Badal Promises Revival of Anti-Sikh ‘Namdhari’ Cult
 
Last edited:
Apr 20, 2006
80
4
Harjas Kaur Bhenji

How can you blatently lie when the facts are staring you in the face? The pictures and links you are putting up are self explanatory. S.Parkash SINGH Badal, a leader of YOUR Akali Party is handing the cheque to Satguruji, in order to improve the memorial sites of Punjabi Sikh martyrs who gave their lives so that we can be free today. What is so wrong about that? How can you say:
The dedhari "satguru" is a member of RSS-BJP-VHP from whom he receives lavish donations to promote return of Sikhs to the Hindu fold.
You should stop your hate filled rantings and recite Naam.

This guy is a missionary that's what's annoying. He's a preacher.

I am not a missionary. I have no objection to what anyone believes. As this is a Forum that discusses Sikh Philosophy I, being a Sikh, feel I too have a right to join in, just as you do. You are going around preaching hate and division. 'Us and them'. I am merely countering that evil and saying, as all of my Gurujis have: We must join hands and live as one.
I think the whole world should join under one banner and combat the evil you and your kind are spreading.

The conferences you are mentioning included delegates from ALL the major religions of the world. Isn't it amazing that non of your facist leaders are present? What was discussed and agreed at these conventions would go against the warmongering you represent.
Parmarth Update - June 2002

I am so glad you have included the above link. I plead with all who are even considering believing Bheji's rantings to click on this link and read for themselves what this convention was about. Readers can then make up their own minds as to who is promoting what!

Forgive me for launching into a personal conflict with you, but you do need to simmer down a little.
 
Feb 14, 2006
512
31
How can you blatently lie when the facts are staring you in the face? The pictures and links you are putting up are self explanatory. S.Parkash SINGH Badal, a leader of YOUR Akali Party is handing the cheque to Satguruji, in order to improve the memorial sites of Punjabi Sikh martyrs who gave their lives so that we can be free today. What is so wrong about that?

The dedhari "satguru" is a member of RSS-BJP-VHP from whom he receives lavish donations to promote return of Sikhs to the Hindu fold.
Do you want to do nindya of me, or do you want to examine all those facts staring you in the face? Stop being a tool and open your eyes to realities.
just weeks after the election results were announced, Badal visited Jagjit Sinh, leader of the 'Namdhari' cult, and presented him with Rs 50 lakhs. Badal stated that the money was being donated for the completion of a Kuka memorial at Malerkotla and promised that this was just the beginning of his program to 'revive and create awareness of the Namdharis' in Punjab...
Badal scandalously declared that the Punjab State Government would also be providing funds to reestablish the 'Namdhari' headquarters at Bhaini and that Jagjit Sinh will have unlimited access to these funds...

To further promote anti-Sikh dehdhari 'gurus' Badal requested the Vice Chancellor of Guru Nanak Dev University (Amritsar) to immediately reopen the 'Satguru' Ram Singh Chair and promised that his government would cover any and all costs to revive this program, which had been previously been discontinued after Sikh organizations protested against its inherent sacrilegious idiosyncrasy of promoting a living human 'guru.' In addition to all this, the Badal government also plans to fund and build more 'Namdhari' centers in Raikot and Amritsar in the next several months.

http://www.panthic.org/news/125/ARTICLE/3196/2007-03-28.html
Now thats an awful lot of money. Quite an expensive agenda really.

Although it has only been a week since SAD (Badal) and the BJP/RSS took power in Punjab, Parkash Badal and his anti-Sikh cohorts haven't wasted a second in initiating their anti-Sikh/Punjabi agenda. Badal has been active in promoting various anti-Sikh pseudo-Saadhs who supported him during his election campaign.

With Badal in power as chief minister for the next five years, Punjab is destined to become a safe haven for numerous anti-Sikh elements, including the RSS terrorist organization and fraudulent dehdhari 'gurus.'

Prior to the election, various Sikh representatives such as Simranjeet Singh Maan were able to pressurize Badal to counter his anti-Sikh agenda, but with Punjab under BJP/RSS control, Badal has been granted free license to propagate his anti-Sikh agenda without any worry of censure from opposition parties.
Under the Badal regime, the Sikh Nation can only expect that the sovereign authority of Sri Akal Takht Sahib will be further denigrated to proliferate the Hindutva agenda.

http://www.panthic.org/news/125/ARTICLE/3153/2007-03-07.html

The Shiromani Akali Dal is most certainly not MY party. Badal and his cohorts are keshdari Hindus, like Naamdharis. The SAD-RSS-BJP-VHP is YOUR party. Let's be clear on this.

Massacres committed under the name of a religion does not make the religion bad. It's the people who commit the crimes that are bad. It's the same as saying that a human being has committed a murder, therefore condemn the whole human race! You can't do that. You musn't do that.
Your "satguru" Jagjit Singh Naamdhari is NOT just Hindu, but he is affiliated with, receiving money and public support from the very same Hindutva extremist organizations which instigate massacres! Explain!

I don't think the RSS is as much hell bent on making the Sikhs submit to anything as the Sikhs are hell bent in denying their own roots. It is this constant hammering that 'we aren't Hindu' which is more dangerous.
Since your guru is in support of Hindutva parivaar, why are you making confusing threads that say you are a Sikh? You're obviously in the wrong Panth. Our shaheed Singhs gave their lives to protect the Panth from people like you.

Several key Panthic organizations are strongly protesting the continued interference by the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS), in the internal affairs of the Sikh nation.

Evidently the right-wing extremist organization has expanded and developed its clandestine machinations aimed at homogenizing the Sikh, Christian, Buddhist and Muslim minorities into the Hindutva construct of one language, one religion, and one land of Hindus: Hindi, Hindu, Hindustan. Following the 2004 Hukamnama issued from Akal Takht Sahib which banned the terrorist group from participating in any Panthic functions, the 'Sangh' is now using more covert tactics to infiltrate the Sikh Panth.

GURSIKH, Shahbaaz Khalsa, and Akhand Kirtani Jatha, Indore recently issued a press release outlining how the right-wing militant organization is now working under the camouflage of counterfeit religious organizations using Sikh names such as "Guru Granth Sahib Vichaar Manch" to disseminate its anti-Sikh propaganda. They stated that a such a conference was organized several days ago in Indore by the RSS under the banner of Sikhi.

Panthic Weekly: RSS Attempt to Infiltrate Panth using counterfeit Sikh organizations

The ideology of Hindutva, or a movement for Hindu awakening, is a political strategy rooted in the teachings of the founders of the RSS. To be clear, Hindutva is not Hinduism, nor can its proponents legitimately claim adherence to Hinduism’s principles of nonviolence and tolerance. To the contrary, the RSS ideologue, M. S. Golwalkar, based much of his teachings on the race theories of Nazi Germany...
Moves to ban religious conversions, the increased recruiting of Dalits and tribals into the RSS fold, and the "reconversion" of Dalits and tribals to Hinduism are parts of a broader strategy to recast these traditionally marginalized groups into a Hindu identity and deploy them in anti-Christian and anti-Muslim violence.

Overlooked Danger: The Security and Rights Implications of Hindu Nationalism in India

Violent hate politics against Muslim and Christian minorities has grown massively in India in recent years. This resulted in the death of 2,000 people, mostly Muslims, and the displacement of 200,000 more in the state of Gujarat in 2002. Victims included British citizens. The ideology behind this hate-driven politics is called ‘Hindutva.’ The organization at the core of Hindutva activities is the extremist, paramilitary, Fascist-inspired Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS). The RSS is dedicated to turning India from a secular democratic multi-religious society into an authoritarian anti-minority ‘Hindu nation’. Gandhi’s murderer was an RSS activist. The RSS and its family of closely-allied organizations have been repeatedly indicted over several decades by international and Indian human rights organizations, judicial commissions and official bodies for their role in large scale violence and hatred against minority groups, including the Gujarat pogroms in 2002.

IMC India - Hindutva Extremism

RSS has reactivated the hitherto dormant institutions of the traditional religious order like the deras, the mutts, the Ashrams, the temples and a host of other religious establishments. Persons who man these establishments like the Sadhus, the Sants and the Mahants have been mobilised and sent into every nook and corner of rural India. Here, it is worth mentioning that a section of the Sant Samaj in Punjab has been mobilised by the Hindutva forces. Through their pronouncements and actions they are trying to assume a kind of Papal authority, contrary to the Sikh Maryada. Chief Minister Badal too has been instrumental in projecting this section of the Sant Samaj. Some of the Sants are patronised by the government not out of any noble sentiments but for its self-serving ends...

The BJP - RSS combine has categorically rejected the Gandhi - Nehru version of the Hindus as humble people who would bear their backs to the blows of lathi. They say that this is an aberration in Indian history and a distortion of Hinduism. They believe that such an interpretation has fostered defeatism, pseudo-secularism and internal division. They claim that reality revolves around a very different version of Hinduism. ‘It is significant that every Hindu god is armed’, said Golwalkar.

BJP’s programme to arm the country with nuclear teeth should be seen in this light. None can deny that in the event of a nuclear warfare, the worst hit are going to be the people of Punjab. Another disturbing phenomenon that has come to the fore is the selective interpretation of India’s past by the historians under the influence of BJP/VHP/RSS... In Punjab, standing of the Sikh community is sought to be compromised through misrepresentation of history. The communally biased writers not only denigrate the Sikhs and their institutions, some of them have taken to rewriting of history as well. The three main components of Sikh identity, namely, language, history and culture have been under constant assault.


http://www.globalsikhstudies.net/articles/isc2k/RSS & Its Agenda -Gurdarshan Singh Dhillon 3.doc
VHP extremists from India - Google Video (VHP promising annihilation of Pakistan)


The RSS-BJP try to make Savarkar’s term Hindutva even more inclusive than Savarkar intended. They claim that any Indian who “identifies with India” is thereby a Hindu. A Muslim who satisfies this condition (what Gandhians called a “nationalist Muslim”) should call himself a “Mohammedi Hindu”. As L.K. Advani explains: “those residing in the country are Hindus even if many of them believe in different religions.(…) those following Islam are ‘Mohammedi Hindus’. Likewise, Christians living in the country are ‘Christian Hindus’, while Sikhs are termed ‘Sikh Hindus’. The respective identities are not undermined by such a fonnulation.”5 in this sense, they would be just as much at home in a Hindu Rashtra as a Vaishnava or Shaiva Hindu.

Thus, veteran journalist M.V. Kamath writes in the Organiser. “Hindutva, then, is what is common to all of us, Hindus, Muslims, Christians, Sikhs, Jains, Buddhists... whoever has Indian heritage. Hindutva is the engine that pulls the nation and takes us into the future. It is cultural nationalism that has the power to unite.(…) Hindutva is not Hinduism, it does not ask anyone to follow a particular creed or ritual. Indeed, it does not speak for Hinduism, it is not a religious doctrine.”6 Remark that an acknowledged spokesman of Sangh Parivar ideology includes Indian Christianity and Indian Islam in his understanding of Hindutva. This would reduce the meaning of Hindutva to the casual reasoning of a Sikh couple in Defence Colony interviewed during the 1989 elections: “Ham Hindustân men rehte hain, bam Hindû hî to hue. (We live in Hindustan, that makes us Hindu).”7

4. Hindutva
And the attitude to non-Hindus? Well, it's like the attitude of Nazi's to the Jews. RSS unites on the basis of caste, discrimination and hate. Further, it precipitously promises the annihilation of Pakistan. They represent anything but peace.

"The fist that unites. The fist that breaks the jaws of traitors." ~Acharya Dharmendra (VHP)

YouTube - Pravin Togadia Speech (VHP)
YouTube - Bajrang Dal Speech 2 - Gujarat
YouTube - VHP Speech

"Hindu Militancy is the only solution left for India. Let one weed grow on your lawn by tolerating it will result in more weeds until they take over healthy grass. Destroy the weeds that live in India. Kill them at their roots"
- Rohit Vyasmaan, HinduUnity.org

130_Bajrang-and-shiv-sena-a.jpg
_41024749_hindudemo-ap300.jpg

20030509004103002.jpg
_41416508_bajrang203ap.jpg

RSS-BJP-VHP-Bajrang Dal-Shiv Sena are demonic. Hindutva is not about unity. It's about intolerance, bigotry, and genocide.

HINDUTVA'S GENDER IDEOLOGY: Narendra Modi is member of the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh, a shadowy all-male organization drawing inspiration from Hitler and Mussolini that trains militia-like groups of men and indoctrinates them into ideologies of racial cleansing. The ideology of racial cleansing includes moral sanction for the rape, impregnation, and murder of non-Hindu women, and the prevention of the biological reproduction of the other race. V.D. Savarkar, their founder-hero, derides Hindu kings for not raping Muslim women in conquered areas.

Note that Hindutva leaders build up hatred and fear of Muslim population growth, with the Muslim woman portrayed as reproducer of the race. This is evident in Narendra Modi's infamous comment on the Gujarat relief camps: "Relief camps are actually childmaking factories. Those who keep on multiplying the population should be taught a lesson." (The Hindu, 10 September 2002). It is a mistake, therefore to think that violence against women is spontaneous. It was planned, organized, and ensured through ideological indoctrination.


Why Opposing Narendra Modi Is A Women's Rights Issue - CAG

I do not believe for one instance that Satguruji would affiliate with any organisation that preaches hate, terror or violence. Nor would anyone who has even had a second's Darshan of Sri Satguruji. The fact that His name has been linked to an organisation that promotes communal-togetherness comes as no surprise. Your statement also mentions a Buddhist organisation that was/is present in the conference. Surely, that should make you think twice about your claims.
RSS-VHP do not promote communal togetherness. They are neo-fascist nazis who promote terror and genocide of minorities. The facts remain. Don't come preaching to us about your blind faith and trust in this man, in this sect of Hindutva and falsely promote yourself as a Sikh of sanatan Hindu Dharam and supporter of RSS-VHP-BJP Hindu parivaar.

I do not hear a squeak of complaint by Jagjit Singh Namdhari against Hindutva's most atrocious human rights violations or the racist and religious fanaticism they espouse. Yet there, unashamed and unapologetic is your "satguru" giving VHP-Bajrang Dal his lovely(?) darshan on their website.

The functions of these front organisations are instrumental and well-defined. For instance, the VHP was set up by the RSS in the early 1960s to serve as an explicitly religious-cultural front and to recruit sadhus and disaffected sanyasis. The VHP participates in communal and political activities of various sorts and operates worldwide amongst the Hindu diaspora. The Bajrang Dal functions like the modern-day equivalent of storm-troopers and uses physical violence to intimidate opponents.
South Asian Journal
Welcoming Former Hindus Back to the Fold

In the afternoon session Jagadguru Shri Vishyesh-Teertha of the Madhav Sampradaya, Sadguru Jagajit Singh of Namdhari Sikh Panth; Guru Raghavacharya of Ramanuja Panth; Buddha Bhikshu Shasan Rashmi and Shri Dhunda Maharaj of the Bhagwat Sampradaya of Maharashtra, spoke on the basic values and ideals common to all sects of the Hindu Society.

Swami Vishvesh Teertha in his brilliant and inspiring speech in Hindi emphatically dealt with the need for all the Sampradayas coming together to lead the Hindu society. He said, "We are all in one boat. If the Hindu society is to sail smoothly to its destined course ahead in future, all those who are guiding, piloting, as also those who are being led and directed must act in unison and steer this great ship of Hinduism to safety, security and prosperity. We cannot and should not quarrel amongst ourselves and pull in opposite directions."
Vishva Hindu Parishad (VHP)<---LOOK! Why is your guru here?

Quote:
YOUTH WING - BAJRANG DAL<---Look this is the VHP Youth wing!

Vishva Hindu Parishad
My recommendation to all concerned is that they "do diligent research into the facts and agenda of evil political forces which exist and have as their aim the destruction of Sikhi."
Quote:
Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP)
Description: To consolidate, strengthen and make invincible the global Hindu fraternity by following the eternal and universal life values based on Sanatan Dharma and work for total welfare of humanity on the basis of the unique cultural ethos of Bharatvarsha.
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Namdhari Sikh Radio <---LOOK why is your sect here?

Description: Listen to Shabad Gurbani and Katha Kirtan performed by Namdhari Sikhs online, Free! Also available: Namdhari MP3s and Video clips.
Added on: 31-Dec-2003 Hits: 321

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Category: Hinduism <---Uh... no wonder they accept you.

Rashtriya Swayam Sevak (RSS)
Description: A unique phenomenon in the history of Bharat in the twentieth century is the birth and unceasing growth of Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS).
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Category: Hindu Organizations
Vishwa Hindu Parishad of America - Web Links

Why is Namdhari Radio linked from militant Hindutva VHP-Bajrang Dal site as category hinduism? RSS and Hindutva are a threat to the Sikh Panth and are actively trying to infiltrate it to promote Hinduization of Gursikhi. Do you have any evidence to support your denials besides your blind faith in your "satguruji's" darshan? Because I'm tired of all these threads. Your making me write a dissertation.
 

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
SPNer
Jun 17, 2004
14,500
19,219
Sikh Naamdhari ji

Facism is dangerous because it subjugates any and all beliefs and behaviors (religious, linguistic and cultural) to the interests of the state. Sometimes violently. Thus we have examples in Hitler's nazism, Mussolini's facism, Sadaam Hussein's baathism, Stalin's form of communism. Harjas ji (whom you have referred to as Bhenji recently) is certainly not a facist.

To ask the world to "fly under one banner" can be found in the rhetoric of fascism. The Parmath website that you made accessible to us through your link by the way flies under the banner of the goddess Kali. If Harjas, I and others in the forum question the credibility of your opinions, it could be that we are put off by the mixed messages. A group of religious leaders (including those who worship and/or revere and/or respect Kali and/or what she represents) are promoting the path of peace through pretense. What is a Shia doing there, by the way?

Since I am not promoting the subjugation of religion, language and culture in the interests of my political beliefs, do not call me a facist. I accept the right of anyone to worship as they please. In fact, celebrating diversity is a surer path to peace than making speechs aimed at erasing differences. Explain how a monotheist cannot see a contradiction here. Or offer a logical explanation.

Sat Nam
 
Feb 14, 2006
512
31
H(is).H(oliness). Jagjit Singhji Maharaj, of the Namdhari Sikh tradition,

This Hindutva accepted representative of the Sikh religion is what I referenced as offensive in the link. I don't give a toot about the Buddhist guy standing next to the Hindu swami or the stated objectives of "peace under one dharam." Take a closer look at the link. It's the "holy maharaja" part I can't swallow. Mahapakhand. Jagjit Singh Namdhari is not and cannot ever be the Guru Ji of mainstream Sikhs. I don't care how many Hindutva front organizations pay his red carpet and darbar and try to shove it down our throats. They promote him because he promotes them.


http://www.parmarth.com/updates/june2002/#wcrl
 

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
SPNer
Jun 17, 2004
14,500
19,219
Harjas Ji

You started my day with a good giggle. You don't give a "toot", I do. But I stand beside you on this.

Most sincerely,
 

harpreet0804

SPNer
Feb 25, 2008
2
0
satshriakal ji,
as guru nanak dev ji said himself that god is one he always himself prayed to god. he never said that he is a god. he taught us how to pray god how to feal him arround us..
 

pk70

Writer
SPNer
Feb 25, 2008
1,582
627
USA
Dear friends DrKhalsaji, aad0002ji, badmashji

I have been following your dialogue with interest.
May I ask you friends to delve even deeper into what you loosely term as 'namdhari'; by which I assume you mean Namdhari philosphy.

'Namdhari' is a term which was given to those Sikhs who having discoverd who the ongoing 12 Guru was, came to His Charan to recieve the Amrit of NAAM. At that time, in the evening of the shortlived Khalsa Emipre, most Sikhs had embroiled themselves in the spoils of war victories over the Moguls. Satguru Ram singhji reintroduced the Maryadha He had given to His Sikhs in His 10th Avtaar. Of course those whom He reintiated started to recite Naam. Those, like today who were caught in the net of Kalyug started to tease those who recited Naam and jokingly called them 'Naamdhariae'. Hence the name stuck.

All Gurus' Sikhs must be 'Naam - Dhari', for Naam is the ambrosial Nectar given to us by our Guru.

It is the first gift a Seeker of God asks for from his Guru.

'Samrath Guru sir Hath Dhario, Gur kenee kirpa Hari Naam deo'

mr namdhari ji

You cannot be a sikh. Why? Any one who worships a man after Gurgaddi was given to our eternal Guru ji, Guru Granth Sahib by our glorious Tenth Nanak, betrays not only Guru ji but also Sikh community. I do not see any difference between Nirankari, Radha swamis and namdhari and Ram rahim thing.
Some how all these groups got backing from political parties to achieve their agenda. No Sikh can ever trust you guys. Talking about Naam, self centred human leaders are far away fron that pious power.
You are welcome to this site as a namdhari but not a namdhari sikh because I strongly feel you guys are degrading this word"sikh".
Sikhs have many stroms, they come and go, Sikhs have support WAHEGURU.
 

Astroboy

ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
Writer
SPNer
Jul 14, 2007
4,576
1,609
Pk70 Ji,

Cool it. If one has been born in a Namdhari family and has been taught to follow Namdhari Guru, there's nothing wrong in that. Just that they are a different sect and have the right to follow their Satguru Jagjit Singh Ji. Nobody is betraying our Guru. Better to be tolerant with a live and let live policy. SPN welcomes views from all regardless of the sect they follow. I enjoy Namdhari Kirtan.

Pk70 Ji, it is likely that I have misunderstood your message but just wanted to express my views as above.

~ namjap ~
 
Apr 4, 2007
934
29
Pk70 Ji,

Cool it. If one has been born in a Namdhari family and has been taught to follow Namdhari Guru, there's nothing wrong in that. Just that they are a different sect and have the right to follow their Satguru Jagjit Singh Ji. Nobody is betraying our Guru. Better to be tolerant with a live and let live policy. SPN welcomes views from all regardless of the sect they follow. I enjoy Namdhari Kirtan.

Pk70 Ji, it is likely that I have misunderstood your message but just wanted to express my views as above.

~ namjap ~

i like the way they do kirtan as well, HOWEVER, they have blatantly disobeyed and disregarded the Hukam of Guru Gobind Singh ji by following a human Guru. read the post PK quotes, they believe Naam is given by a living man, not by God. this is the hallmark of sant-mat, it is NOT Gurmat.

they sing well, but that does not mean they should be considered as sikhs. the panthically accepted definition of a sikh is:

one who faithfully believes in theteachings of the 10 Gurus and Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, and does not follow any other religion.

they clearly do not fit this broad definition and therefore cannot be considered Sikhs.


i'm sorry if this is offensive, i'm speaking the truth as i understand it.
 
Oct 14, 2007
3,369
54
Sachkhand
A Gurusikh does not believe in the value system of Naamdharis. Yes, as stated by Jasleen they believe in HUman guru only and quote frequently from Guru Granth Sahib ji.

Likewise there is other cult , Radha soamis; there also Naam is given by the Human Guru. It is also against Gurmat. Both of these sects are not as per Sikhism
I have seen some literature of Soami cult. In theory they accept the teachings of Guru sahibs and quote freely from the Granth sahib. But they as well quote from Bible.
Both are not within the periphery of Gurmat or even sikhism. Many Hindus do accept the Radha Soami cult.
 
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