Yogism What Are Your Thoughts On Kundalini And Yogi Bhajan

[chazSingh]

Quote:
We would have instant enlightenment (whatever you want to call it) if ego was completely erased because it is the main thing that created the seperateness feeling between us and god.

I think that is rather optimistic, what about study, understanding, wisdom?

Satnaam Harry Ji, my point was that ego exists right up until enlightenment...so mistakes will be made right up until that point.

Sometimes our past needs to be forgiven otherwise there is no point becoming a better person?

in the end, its between each of us and God, we come naked and we leave naked. The people that try and drag you down will not be with you when the lights turn off. and the only thing of interest will be your own development into a pure soul.

 

[chazSingh]

Chazji



More Vedic references, nothing more, we are Sikhs, all we need is Hukam and Creator

I

I think you need to educate yourself on the difference between Creator concepts and Sikh concepts, Creator concepts can be seen as universal, Sikh ones are not, you are contradicting yourself.



I do, as indeed do you, lets just say we differ, in fact the only reason I am writing this is to balance your enthusiastic lauding of Vedic practices that keep permeating Sikhism.It is a pity my dear Veer Bhagat Singh is away in India, he could have given you a hand lol



Firstly the english translations of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji are so poor, it is pointless using them as support for arguments, I have come to realise this recently. Second, We have different beliefs, I believe in a completely non interventionist God, the onus is on ourselves. You do not, which is fine, that is your stance, you are welcome to it, but please don't state it as definitive, because at least one person disagrees with it, namely, Me




I could not care less about the sublime supreme essence, I think you want it more than I do, All I really care about is living in Hukam and treasuring the rare times when I feel in Naam. What you are trying to do sounds way to complicated for simple folk like myself. In fact I find it hard enough to do follow Hukam and find Naam! If along the way Creator blesses me with the sublime supreme essence, than that is his gift which I will accept happily, but yearn for it, fight for it, earn it? no thanks, its not my call, it is his



Are you kidding me? your suggesting that the way to Naam, the path is unknown? I think not, I think you will find the way to Naam in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, perhaps if you ceased chasing Vedic concepts you might see that.....



Good luck, call me Mr old fashioned, but I always thought the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji was written so we did not have to try and test

Regards

Harry

Harry Ji,

God bless you...we are all on our own paths that lead to him...
it will happen at some stage.

I would much rather see everyone else get there before me so keep doing what you're doing and maybe one day you will return to SGGS Ji, and it's guidance will not seems vedic to you, but it will be creator concepts and creator guidance that are universal for everyone..that existed at the beginning of time, in the present day and for all of eternity.

The isms of religious boundaries will one day collapse and the truth that exists in all religions (behind the minds adjustements made by man) will shine through.

we are all seekers of the truth, by gurus grace the truth will come to us all in our present lives and even if the whole world thinks its false, we'd be so in-love with the truth that nothing can ever hold us back again.

God bless everyone on their journey.

 

[Harry Haller]

Chazji

We really really are on completely different paths with completely different expectations. I find it hard to understand yours, but maybe you find it just as hard to understand mine.

God bless you...we are all on our own paths that lead to him...
it will happen at some stage.

I will live, I will do the best I can, then I will die, I am unlikely to meet 'him', if anything it is more of an 'it' to me anyway. Your path may lead you to 'him', mine leads to death, what happens between now and death means I may experience Naam at times, hopefully more times than not, but that depends on me

I would much rather see everyone else get there before me so keep doing what you're doing and maybe one day you will return to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, and it's guidance will not seems vedic to you, but it will be creator concepts and creator guidance that are universal for everyone..that existed at the beginning of time, in the present day and for all of eternity.

Nope, as said above its death for me, its guidance does not seem Vedic to me, it all depends on your interpretation, to me these Vedic references are just references, if the SGGS was written today it may have contained references to Krusty the Clown, Charlie Chaplin, Marilyn Monroe, and I would have to debate with folk like yourself about why these people are not Gods lol

In my view there are no Creator concepts or guidance, its all Hukam, its quite simple, it does not need to be overcomplicated

The isms of religious boundaries will one day collapse and the truth that exists in all religions (behind the minds adjustements made by man) will shine through.

I do agree with this, but within this I would also include these Vedic references as being man adjusted in their interpretation. Given that, who is to say what is man adjusted or not?, so we are back to square one.....

we are all seekers of the truth, by gurus grace the truth will come to us all in our present lives and even if the whole world thinks its false, we'd be so in-love with the truth that nothing can ever hold us back again.

lives?? are you a cat or a Sikh? lol

 

[chazSingh]

In my view there are no Creator concepts or guidance, its all Hukam, its quite simple, it does not need to be overcomplicated.
Harry Ji, this makes no sense at all. There has to be creator concepts because He's the one who designed everything its like saying there are no artist concepts in a painting.




I do agree with this, but within this I would also include these Vedic references as being man adjusted in their interpretation. Given that, who is to say what is man adjusted or not?, so we are back to square one.....
So what are you waiting for? how would you know for sure?
Answer, to go find out YOURSELF
Would you keep reading someones description of the taste of an apple...or would you just pick one up and experience the taste yourself.

God bless

 

[Harry Haller]

Luckyji

Harry Ji, this makes no sense at all. There has to be creator concepts because He's the one who designed everything its like saying there are no artist concepts in a painting.

con·cept (knspt)
n.
1. A general idea derived or inferred from specific instances or occurrences.
2. Something formed in the mind; a thought or notion. See Synonyms at idea.
3. A scheme; a plan:

Creator deals in absolute truth only, not concepts.Likening Creator, who is the definitive authority on the truth, to a frustrated, mad, passionate, emotional artist does not sit with me hugely well. One is trying to get 'the' point across, one is trying to get 'his' point across. Perhaps you should choose your words more carefully.

So what are you waiting for? how would you know for sure?
Answer, to go find out YOURSELF
Would you keep reading someones description of the taste of an apple...or would you just pick one up and experience the taste yourself.

I am more than comfortable with my understanding and path, without the need to force it down the throat of another, thanks. I have always made it quite clear that my thoughts are my own, as are my opinions, and indeed my understanding. I do not tend to write definitively as if I knew all.

I pick up apples, I taste, I roll it round my mouth, I use it in cooking, I embrace the apple, better that than to repeat the word apple again and again, no?

 

[chazSingh]

Luckyji




con·cept (knspt)
n.
1. A general idea derived or inferred from specific instances or occurrences.
2. Something formed in the mind; a thought or notion. See Synonyms at idea.
3. A scheme; a plan:

Creator deals in absolute truth only, not concepts.Likening Creator, who is the definitive authority on the truth, to a frustrated, mad, passionate, emotional artist does not sit with me hugely well. One is trying to get 'the' point across, one is trying to get 'his' point across. Perhaps you should choose your words more carefully.

Most designs start with a concept...an idea, a thought, a plan, a visualisation...and then they become reality...they become truth.




I am more than comfortable with my understanding and path, without the need to force it down the throat of another, thanks. I have always made it quite clear that my thoughts are my own, as are my opinions, and indeed my understanding. I do not tend to write definitively as if I knew all.

Appologies if my writing comes across as forcing..it's not intented in that way.

I pick up apples, I taste, I roll it round my mouth, I use it in cooking, I embrace the apple, better that than to repeat the word apple again and again, no?
The taste is not the mantra. the mantra defines the focus and the path of where ones soul is intending to go i.e. satnaam, waheguru.
I only use a mantra for about 5 minutes now in Simran to stop my wavering mind...once the mind is still...the focus is set and all is silent for the rest of the simran.

My simran and your simran is different but we're both thinking of god so all is good and all has a purpose and all is grace

god bless

 

[Harry Haller]

Veerji

Most designs start with a concept...an idea, a thought, a plan, a visualisation...and then they become reality...they become truth.

Are you suggesting Creator operates in this fashion?

This is, after all, related to your phrase 'Creator Concepts'.........

I also apologise if I come across as brusque, however, sometimes debates should be short and to the point, rather than going over the same ground endlessly mundahug

 

[chazSingh]

Veerji




Are you suggesting Creator operates in this fashion?

This is, after all, related to your phrase 'Creator Concepts'.........

I also apologise if I come across as brusque, however, sometimes debates should be short and to the point, rather than going over the same ground endlessly mundahug

I have no idea Ji how the creator operates...but 'We' in the physical realm/reality using language in the 3 dimensional world can only use such terms to try and understand or to bring reasoning into such topics. Thats all we can do with the limited mind.

When we create something oursleves...it starts off as a concept..a thought, and idea, a plan... these are the only terms i can use..the terms and reasoning that my mind can handle in this reality we live in.

 

[Harry Haller]

I have no idea Ji how the creator operates...but 'We' in the physical realm/reality using language in the 3 dimensional world can only use such terms to try and understand or to bring reasoning into such topics. Thats all we can do with the limited mind.

When we create something oursleves...it starts off as a concept..a thought, and idea, a plan... these are the only terms i can use..the terms and reasoning that my mind can handle in this reality we live in.

then maybe my feisty little veer, you should just accept Creator operates in a way beyond our understanding, instead of attempting to understand Creators reasoning. In my view Creator does not conceptualize, Creator just does, Creator is beyond conceptualisation.

 

[chazSingh]

then maybe my feisty little veer, you should just accept Creator operates in a way beyond our understanding, instead of attempting to understand Creators reasoning. In my view Creator does not conceptualize, Creator just does, Creator is beyond conceptualisation.

With Guru Ji's grace hopefully in this lifetime i will know

God bless all.

 

[Harry Haller]

at least you get another go!, I only have maybe 20 years!

lol lol lol lol

 

[chazSingh]

at least you get another go!, I only have maybe 20 years!

lol lol lol lol

qyrY hiQ inDwnu BwvY iqsu dyih ]
thaerai hathh nidhhaan bhaavai this dhaehi ||
The treasure is in Your Hands; according to Your Will, You bestow it.

 

[Luckysingh]

We have to accept that it is beyond our understanding.
If we imagine our own one single brain in this whole world it is just like a small dot on a world map, next imagine it in a picture of the whole universe, the dot continues to become microscopic. That is how I see the relation of our microscopic knowledge to the whole creation and universe. How can we possibly know the game or 'khel' of mankind if our knowledge is so confined within visible limits??!!!

We can't know this 'khel' of the universe, but we can know how to become an accepted winner!
We should try focusing on the winning at our own microscopic level as a start.

 

[swarn bains]

all kind of yoga is physical. it is not mental. according to sggs no yoga is spiritual

 

[namritanevaeh]

Personally my biggest problem with 3HO is nothing to do with how it might change or tries to change Sikhi. I view change as necessary particularly when dealing with a religion that is so deeply tied to Indian culture (female foeticide for example, casteism still being very prevalent etc.) and is now reaching around half a millennia in age. Things quite simply weren't the same as they were when guru Nanak started out, or when guru Gobind Singh ji was around even. Marriage for a woman would have protected her perhaps against many men then, but now as women's rights are becoming more upheld, particularly in western culture, being married is absolutely not necessary and is not protective...and sometimes is detrimental. Basic "Indian culture" still stands in the way of a woman divorcing when she is in a bad marriage, even if Sikhi should be defending that woman and her rights. IMO.

My biggest problem with 3HO is that despite being interested in the philosophies they might have, anything I might want to attend by them is almost always prohibitively expensive. By contrast I have been to an amazing camp at Khalsa centre in Mission BC about the Sarbat Khalsa, where I learned a lot, and it was very affordable.

 

[Harkiran Kaur]

Yoga is fine as a physical exercise. Just keep it out of the darbar hall! It's not part of Sikhi.
My issue with 3HO is that they blatantly go against Sikh Rehet Maryada and teach things which are not Sikhi, but they present them as if they were. Like idol worship... they have at their 'Ashram' (not even called Gurdwara) in New Mexico, idols of Siri Chand for example, which they place garlands on etc. Thats just one example. I won't get into it more than that except to say, what they are practicing is not Sikhi. It's a hybrid of Sikhi and Hinduism. They have SGGSJ, and wear Sikh bana, but incorporate a lot of Hindu practices.

 

[namritanevaeh]

Yoga is fine as a physical exercise. Just keep it out of the darbar hall! It's not part of Sikhi.
My issue with 3HO is that they blatantly go against Sikh Rehet Maryada and teach things which are not Sikhi, but they present them as if they were. Like idol worship... they have at their 'Ashram' (not even called Gurdwara) in New Mexico, idols of Siri Chand for example, which they place garlands on etc. Thats just one example. I won't get into it more than that except to say, what they are practicing is not Sikhi. It's a hybrid of Sikhi and Hinduism. They have SGGSJ, and wear Sikh bana, but incorporate a lot of Hindu practices.

Yeah I'm totally fine with hybrids of many things especially if I think it makes sense. I just don't know enough about 3HO honestly to know what is what right now, because I have been unable to attend anything by them. One of my friends teaches a yoga gong class at a 3HO place and I often would like to go, and then see the price and go...no thanks. :-(

 

[Shiva Singh]

Sat Siri Akal,

So first, like many Americans, I was introduced to Eastern philosophy when the Beatles returned from their journey to India. At that time many Indian teachers, Gurus, masters, swamis, etc. came to the west, some with many followers, finances, etc. The majority tried to install Vedic philosophy - Guru Chela relationship, women as below men, what we, in 3HO would call outmoded hierarchical models of society. Most returned to India, some followed by scandal.

Yogi Bhajan (Harbhajan Singh Khalsa YogiJi) started teaching and he shared with us the basics of Sikhi. I and my wife are Amritdhari, keep the rehat, my 5 Ks and banis. My son is born Sikh. He spent 2 years at school in Amritsar at Miri Piri Academy and did seva at Harimandir Sahib over 200 times. He climbed the 84 steps in the Boali at Goindwal Sahib at age 13, taking 15 hours.

I've been immersed in Sikhi since 1972. I remember some of the books and articles from that time that are to this day referenced to prove how terrible we are as Sikhs and what a corrupt person YogiJi was.

The Punjabi community must understand we are not South Asians. We do not believe as the Gurus taught us that images (murtis, idols, etc.) have spiritual powers, they are just inspirational art.

We do not see participating in Interfaith events, such as standing with Hindus as they do arti, that we are doing worship.

We do not practice the Yoga of sadhus or renunciates. We are householders just as Guru Nanak told us to be.

We rise in the early hours of the morning, before sunrise, we bath, we exercise to awaken our sleepy bodies to be able to spend an hour deeply chanting Wahe Guru simran. Understand we do Kundalini Yoga not as a worship as the sadhus believe, we practice it because it works - and frankly look how yoga (Or exercises that are adapted from yoga) has grabbed the attention of millions of Americans. We needed something to help us understand SGGSJi, to be able to sit for a few moments and deeply listen, suni[FONT=ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਅਖ਼ਰ]-ai. The Western culture was not designed for devotion to the Guru.
My personal experience is this: I suffered from Grande Mal Seizures for my teen years due to a head injury.
I asked YogiJi for a suggestion. He had me do Nam Simran for 31 minutes a day for 40 days. I have had no seizures in 40 years, managed my seizures with out medication through yoga, diet and meditation. Why would I listen to the no-Sayers who have never experienced the Akal Murakh in their lives. [/FONT]

We then go and earn an honest living in a righteous manner, professionals, attorneys, business owners, etc. This Shabad describes our view on life, a Sikh life. I made the last line bold you know why because there are lakhs of people in the world now, not of Indian decent, who recite JapJi Sahib daily and whose lips and tongue say Wahe Guru on every breath because we introduced it to them in a non-cultural or religious manner. We teach them to not smoke or drink or use drugs. To respect women and for women to live gracefully. These are the things Yogi Bhajan taught us and frankly, it is just exhausting to hear the rants and criticisms. For those of you who are still confused by the false interpretations of who we are, GET THIS THROUGH YOUR HEADS -WE DO NOT WORSHIP YOGI BHAJAN, WE NEVER DID WE NEVER WILL. WE ONLY WORSHIP the SHABAD GURU as embodied in the SIRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI. Yogi Ji never allowed us to bow at this feet (Until he was to weak to stop it) HE NEVER CALLED HIMSELF GURU.

Ldets just

mehlaa 4.
Fourth Mehl:
gur satgur kaa jo sikhakhaa-ay sobhalkay uthhar naamDhi-aavai.
One who calls himself a Sikh of the Guru, the True Guru, shall rise in the early morning hours and meditate on the Lord's Name.

udam karaybhalkay parbhaatee isnaan karay amritsar naavai.
Upon arising early in the morning, he is to bathe, and cleanse himself in the pool of nectar.

updays guroo har har jap jaapai sabhkilvikhpaapdokhleh jaavai.
Following the Instructions of the Guru, he is to chant the Name of the Lord, Har, Har. All sins, misdeeds and negativity shall be erased.

fir charhaidivas gurbaanee gaavai bahdi-aa uth-di-aa har naamDhi-aavai.
Then, at the rising of the sun, he is to sing Gurbani; whether sitting down or standing up, he is to meditate on the Lord's Name.

jo saas giraasDhi-aa-ay mayraa har har so gursikhguroo manbhaavai.
One who meditates on my Lord, Har, Har, with every breath and every morsel of food - that GurSikh becomes pleasing to the Guru's Mind.

jis noda-i-aal hovai mayraa su-aameetis gursikhguroo updays sunaavai.
That person, unto whom my Lord and Master is kind and compassionate - upon that GurSikh, the Guru's Teachings are bestowed.

jan naanakDhoorhmangaitis gursikhkee jo aap japai avrah naam japaavai. ||2||
Servant Nanak begs for the dust of the feet of that GurSikh, who himself chants the Naam, and inspires others to chant it. ||2||

 

[Shiva Singh]

Sat Siri Akal

To LInzer's comment about commercializing Golden Temple, etc. There are scores of Punjabi owned companies, Golden Temple Atta, Nanak ghee, Nanak Paneer, Nanak sweets and cookies, and the list goes on - so we used the brand of Sikhi to identify our products similar to how we keep the 5-Ks to both keep us straight and to let others know who we are and can be called upon no matter what.

 

[Shiva Singh]

Wahe Guru Ji Ka Khalsa, Wahe Guru Ji KI Fateh
Harikran Kaur Ji,

Please understand we don't worship idols - they are inspirational pieces of art. Yes we practice Yoga - we are mystics, that is how we came to Sikhi, not culturally. We are definitely NOT HINDUS - we don't believe in caste, or low position of women, or the many rituals practiced in Vedic traditions - it is their way - not ours. Our Gurdwaras are called Gurdwaras, we have ashrams as well. Some one is selling you a really distorted view of who we are. Now I can't speak for every single 3HO person, since many in 3HO are not Sikhs, or rather not Khalsa, but they still practice Sikh teachings.

I have been immersed in Sikhi for over 40 years. I can honestly share with you I am shocked at the way some sardars live - not by the rehat, but I have been taught to overlook their weaknesses and just serve them.

Another thing I can share with you as I am an older person. In the 60's and 70's there were very few Sikh ladies who wore turbans. I personally can say that over the years, after the first American Sikh women went to Amritsar and decided if men can wear turbans why not women - Khalsa has no gender. Since that time I see more and more Sikhs of Indian decent covering thair heads as the Guru prescribed. I see from your picture you look like a "3HO" lady! Good for you. But you know, I said that lightly because it is not a 3HO but Khalsa Guru Roop!

We support you in your love of Gurbani and please understand that you have been misled by unsavory miscreants.