Yogism What Are Your Thoughts On Kundalini And Yogi Bhajan

[Shiva Singh]

Sat Siri Akal,

By the way the term 'Yogism' is repulsive to any of us who were brought to the feet of the Guru (You know, SGGS JI) by Harbahjan Singh Khalsa YogiJi. It is like the "N" word or other insulting term of derision. It sets tone of this conversation. You should do better that that as Admin Sikhs.

 

[sukhsingh]

all kind of yoga is physical. it is not mental. according to sggs no yoga is spiritual

That's simply not true. Meditation on naam and simran is yoga

 

[sukhsingh]

Yoga is fine as a physical exercise. Just keep it out of the darbar hall! It's not part of Sikhi.
My issue with 3HO is that they blatantly go against Sikh Rehet Maryada and teach things which are not Sikhi, but they present them as if they were. Like idol worship... they have at their 'Ashram' (not even called Gurdwara) in New Mexico, idols of Siri Chand for example, which they place garlands on etc. Thats just one example. I won't get into it more than that except to say, what they are practicing is not Sikhi. It's a hybrid of Sikhi and Hinduism. They have SGGSJ, and wear Sikh bana, but incorporate a lot of Hindu practices.

Naam simran is yoga as is gurmat sangeet.. I'm very surprised by what is being said here

 

[sukhsingh]

Sat Siri Akal,

So first, like many Americans, I was introduced to Eastern philosophy when the Beatles returned from their journey to India. At that time many Indian teachers, Gurus, masters, swamis, etc. came to the west, some with many followers, finances, etc. The majority tried to install Vedic philosophy - Guru Chela relationship, women as below men, what we, in 3HO would call outmoded hierarchical models of society. Most returned to India, some followed by scandal.

Yogi Bhajan (Harbhajan Singh Khalsa YogiJi) started teaching and he shared with us the basics of Sikhi. I and my wife are Amritdhari, keep the rehat, my 5 Ks and banis. My son is born Sikh. He spent 2 years at school in Amritsar at Miri Piri Academy and did seva at Harimandir Sahib over 200 times. He climbed the 84 steps in the Boali at Goindwal Sahib at age 13, taking 15 hours.

I've been immersed in Sikhi since 1972. I remember some of the books and articles from that time that are to this day referenced to prove how terrible we are as Sikhs and what a corrupt person YogiJi was.

The Punjabi community must understand we are not South Asians. We do not believe as the Gurus taught us that images (murtis, idols, etc.) have spiritual powers, they are just inspirational art.

We do not see participating in Interfaith events, such as standing with Hindus as they do arti, that we are doing worship.

We do not practice the Yoga of sadhus or renunciates. We are householders just as Guru Nanak told us to be.

We rise in the early hours of the morning, before sunrise, we bath, we exercise to awaken our sleepy bodies to be able to spend an hour deeply chanting Wahe Guru simran. Understand we do Kundalini Yoga not as a worship as the sadhus believe, we practice it because it works - and frankly look how yoga (Or exercises that are adapted from yoga) has grabbed the attention of millions of Americans. We needed something to help us understand SGGSJi, to be able to sit for a few moments and deeply listen, suni[FONT=ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਅਖ਼ਰ]-ai. The Western culture was not designed for devotion to the Guru.
My personal experience is this: I suffered from Grande Mal Seizures for my teen years due to a head injury.
I asked YogiJi for a suggestion. He had me do Nam Simran for 31 minutes a day for 40 days. I have had no seizures in 40 years, managed my seizures with out medication through yoga, diet and meditation. Why would I listen to the no-Sayers who have never experienced the Akal Murakh in their lives. [/FONT]

We then go and earn an honest living in a righteous manner, professionals, attorneys, business owners, etc. This Shabad describes our view on life, a Sikh life. I made the last line bold you know why because there are lakhs of people in the world now, not of Indian decent, who recite JapJi Sahib daily and whose lips and tongue say Wahe Guru on every breath because we introduced it to them in a non-cultural or religious manner. We teach them to not smoke or drink or use drugs. To respect women and for women to live gracefully. These are the things Yogi Bhajan taught us and frankly, it is just exhausting to hear the rants and criticisms. For those of you who are still confused by the false interpretations of who we are, GET THIS THROUGH YOUR HEADS -WE DO NOT WORSHIP YOGI BHAJAN, WE NEVER DID WE NEVER WILL. WE ONLY WORSHIP the SHABAD GURU as embodied in the SIRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI. Yogi Ji never allowed us to bow at this feet (Until he was to weak to stop it) HE NEVER CALLED HIMSELF GURU.

Ldets just

mehlaa 4.
Fourth Mehl:
gur satgur kaa jo sikhakhaa-ay sobhalkay uthhar naamDhi-aavai.
One who calls himself a Sikh of the Guru, the True Guru, shall rise in the early morning hours and meditate on the Lord's Name.

udam karaybhalkay parbhaatee isnaan karay amritsar naavai.
Upon arising early in the morning, he is to bathe, and cleanse himself in the pool of nectar.

updays guroo har har jap jaapai sabhkilvikhpaapdokhleh jaavai.
Following the Instructions of the Guru, he is to chant the Name of the Lord, Har, Har. All sins, misdeeds and negativity shall be erased.

fir charhaidivas gurbaanee gaavai bahdi-aa uth-di-aa har naamDhi-aavai.
Then, at the rising of the sun, he is to sing Gurbani; whether sitting down or standing up, he is to meditate on the Lord's Name.

jo saas giraasDhi-aa-ay mayraa har har so gursikhguroo manbhaavai.
One who meditates on my Lord, Har, Har, with every breath and every morsel of food - that GurSikh becomes pleasing to the Guru's Mind.

jis noda-i-aal hovai mayraa su-aameetis gursikhguroo updays sunaavai.
That person, unto whom my Lord and Master is kind and compassionate - upon that GurSikh, the Guru's Teachings are bestowed.

jan naanakDhoorhmangaitis gursikhkee jo aap japai avrah naam japaavai. ||2||
Servant Nanak begs for the dust of the feet of that GurSikh, who himself chants the Naam, and inspires others to chant it. ||2||

Some gursikhs do practice 'aarti' at huzoor sahib..

Yoga is a generic term and whilst arguing over the merits of kundalini yoga and its place in sikhi is valid to suggest 'yoga' - gian yoga, naad yoga, simran etc are not part of sikhi is frankly the product of a very narrow reading of what 'Yoga' is and means

 

[Harry Haller]

Sat Siri Akal,

By the way the term 'Yogism' is repulsive to any of us who were brought to the feet of the Guru (You know, SGGS JI) by Harbahjan Singh Khalsa YogiJi. It is like the "N" word or other insulting term of derision. It sets tone of this conversation. You should do better that that as Admin Sikhs.

There are many here, including myself that could give you a real run for your money given your submitted content, but this is a free forum, one of the few that does not edit or restrict content, unless it falls within our TOS. Feel free to contribute and share, interact but please try not to proselytise, your website 3HO Foundation, mentions Yogij many many times, it looks like a religion centred round Yogiji, not SGGS, your mission statement as taken from the website is

Mission Statement:
"3HO's mission is to inspire everyone, everywhere to live a Healthy, Happy, and Holy life through the teachings of Yogi Bhajan."

If you find it offensive that people accuse you of driving a Ford, perhaps it is not people you need to address but the Ford parked on your drive...

 

[sukhsingh]

There are many here, including myself that could give you a real run for your money given your submitted content, but this is a free forum, one of the few that does not edit or restrict content, unless it falls within our TOS. Feel free to contribute and share, interact but please try not to proselytise, your website 3HO Foundation, mentions Yogij many many times, it looks like a religion centred round Yogiji, not SGGS, your mission statement as taken from the website is

Mission Statement:
"3HO's mission is to inspire everyone, everywhere to live a Healthy, Happy, and Holy life through the teachings of Yogi Bhajan."

If you find it offensive that people accuse you of driving a Ford, perhaps it is not people you need to address but the Ford parked on your drive...

Brother I feel where you are coming from but have to say it feels a bit harsh.. 3HO has been hugely misrepresented and whilst the language you have lifted from their website suggests a focus on YBJ I would rather give it the benefit of the doubt? 3HO have done much to propagate a pluralistic vision of sikhi and without whom we would not have the diversity of the sikh panth we see today, chardi kala jatha are a great example

More over bhai avtar singh ragi who reinvigorated my own khoj and to whom I would defer to was always happy to commune with the '3ho'. There has been a concerted effort to discredit the organisation which is unwarranted?

 

[RD1]

More over bhai avtar singh ragi who reinvigorated my own khoj and to whom I would defer to was always happy to commune with the '3ho'. There has been a concerted effort to discredit the organisation which is unwarranted?

If this is the mission statement:

Mission Statement:
"3HO's mission is to inspire everyone, everywhere to live a Healthy, Happy, and Holy life through the teachings of Yogi Bhajan."

Then this is not in-keeping with Sikhi. Sikhi promotes that the SGGS ji is our ultimate teacher. No human being is above the SGGS ji. Yogi Bhajan should be irrelevant in the grand scheme.

 

[chazSingh]

If this is the mission statement:



Then this is not in-keeping with Sikhi. Sikhi promotes that the SGGS ji is our ultimate teacher. No human being is above the SGGS ji. Yogi Bhajan should be irrelevant in the grand scheme.

my opinion is...if people are looking in the right direction i.e. Within....and genuinely want to connect to Waheguru (within), then all else (judgement form the outside) is pointless details...

 

[ravneet_sb]

Sat Sri Akaal,
RS
I was asked by caller to join online meditation classes.
RS
Oh so Query was what is Meditation please tell me so that I can join.
Caller
You join to know
RS
So I joined a group where they talk about Meditation Yoga Thoughtlessness Kundalini. It was new perspective as I am seeker of JAP Bani. Accepted and joined a group.
RS
I was having query.
What is Meditation.
Instructor

To get in
Thoughless State.
RS
But than we are taught Empty Mind is Devils place and we want it now. Why Devil will entre.
How this physically ritualistic exercise make one thoughtless.
There is a simple way to conclude desire and resolve problems. And is the only way to get Free Mind ie Thoughlessness.
Instructor
RS is not supposed to put questions in forum rather instructor asked me to message personally.

After few days another query
RS
What If one has got a free mind. What to do with gree mind.
And if it's a state of Mind how to Use.
Instructor
Let's pray we shall not have thoughts of Enemity.
RS
But if I teach this to my children they will not read there history books. Shall I go ahead with lesson.
Instructor
Next lesson will be Mooladahar and Kundalini.
It is energy contained in Sacrum Bone which is bottom of Spine in form of Kundalini ie Coiled Shape.
RS
But Mool Adhar ie Foundation of life is Spirit connection with one cell Ek O Ang Kar and all DNA ie coiled information is in that cell and that rises to form nervous system and than other veil of memory system for present life which camouflage the inherited DNA information.

And that manifests to human form each cell has that information though it may appear as heart lungs hair etc but has DNA information.

And how the exercises make me aware of DNA.

Left with the query and answers. For understanding and contemplation.


Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

 

[A_seeker]

This podcasts is deeply reasearch history of yogi bhajan and his origins of Kundalini Yoga

 

[gjsingh]

3HO is a yoga organization first and foremost. Yogi Bhajan converted some goras to Yogism (I never heard of the term but I think it is a very apt description). Next time you see a 3HO person ask them about Sidh Gosht. The older individuals might even have heard of it. Meanwhile, they are first class experts in numerology, gemology, etc. etc. because that was what Yogi Bhajan was really about.

I am totally fine with Yogists, and I am totally fine with goras practicing authentic Gursikh lifestyles too. I will never agree that they are the same thing, though.

 

[Sikhilove1]

3HO is a yoga organization first and foremost. Yogi Bhajan converted some goras to Yogism (I never heard of the term but I think it is a very apt description). Next time you see a 3HO person ask them about Sidh Gosht. The older individuals might even have heard of it. Meanwhile, they are first class experts in numerology, gemology, etc. etc. because that was what Yogi Bhajan was really about.

I am totally fine with Yogists, and I am totally fine with goras practicing authentic Gursikh lifestyles too. I will never agree that they are the same thing, though.

The yoga Is great, some of those older folk look way younger physically body wise, and naam simran, meditation is always good. Some of the shabads some of them sing are beautiful.

 

[gjsingh]

This ਪਾਖੰਡੀ ਬਾਬਾ was quite sick and unhealthy for many years before his untimely death. If I could say one thing to these ਗੋਰਿਆ it would be:

(1) stop eating baba's hindutva diet, rather eat some hearty meat, like their parents made them as children,
(2) do calisthenics & martial arts per Padishah Guru Angad Ji instead of dera baba's made up "yoga" exercises
(3) kindly read SGGS Ji.

but I am a terminal cynic struggling with ਹਉਮੈ every day, so take my opinion with mountain of salt.

 

[Sikhilove1]

I’m sure that a number of those people practice truth and a number don’t like most people, we are not all saints. Live and let live. If there are rape, murder allegations then ok. But everyone’s entitled to walk on the path or go astray, whether they do or don’t, for the most part, we don’t know and we don’t judge. I don’t sit with them day to day and don’t know what they do just as I and they don’t know what you do, how pure you are, if you do naam simran, if you refain from the sins of Nindya, anger attachment etc. We are not perfect so focus on yourself first. Live and let live.

The Gurus never promoted tyranny or forced their views onto anyone Ever. They just taught the Truth with humility, detached. And they practiced what they preached First.

 

[ravneet_sb]

Sat Sri Akaal,

Kundalinii Yog

Recently one of colleague was seeking advise to marry a girl from a good family, but due to non matching of kundali as suggested by astrologer boy was in disagreement.

Though I was not having any experience of Kundali, I cannot advise about effects merits and demerits of Kundalini.

But with little awareness what I can share is

Kundali what is predict is your default program.
For success in life you can choose settings.

For remedy you can choose deactivation of DNA arrangement and reactivation of DNA rearrangement program as a Kundalini Jagran ie Awareness and DNA correction program.

For Eg There is mobile without awareness we use default option, but once we are aware of setting option, we make a choice, further if there is flaw in system, we get the operating system replace or upgrade by manufacturer.

 

[gjsingh]

I have absolutely no use for Yoga concepts like Kundalini. If Kundalini, Ida, Pingala, nadis, chakras, etc were real then we would be studying them in anatomy classes and medical schools. Truth is its own defense.

My understanding is that Sant Singh Khalsa's translation is not without controversy wherein these terms are employed.

 

[ravneet_sb]

I have absolutely no use for Yoga concepts like Kundalini. If Kundalini, Ida, Pingala, nadis, chakras, etc were real then we would be studying them in anatomy classes and medical schools. Truth is its own defense.

My understanding is that Sant Singh Khalsa's translation is not without controversy wherein these terms are employed.

Sat Sri Akaal,
To bring scien e
Ida as Sympathetic Nerve
Pingla Para Sympathic Nerve
Sushmana As CEntral Nerve

This is how it is correlated with science during meditation, experts can have opinion on this but with logical and analytical way it was commented that Mooladahar is not from Sacrum bone but as initiation of life with One Cell.

 

[Ram_Muni]

Today, we have Yogi Bhajan's photo above the SGGS, and Baba Sri Chand statues being bowed to, We have men dressing up as Guru Gobind Singhji and having elaborate Amrit ceremonies, We have Baba's taking money of simple people and promising them the world, at what point do you, as a Sikh, stand up and say, 'this is not within what I know to be Gurmutt'?

Ram Ram bhai

As a member of the Udasi Sampradaya and someone who loves BaBa Sri Chand Ji I would never rebuke someone who bows down "matha tek" to BaBa ji. However from a Sikh point of view I can understand. My main intent by this post is to make it known that Yogi Bhajan, has no relation to the Udasi Sampradaya and from my understanding has used BaBa Ji to enhance his narratives and to justify his union of kundalini yoga with Sikh practices.

BaBa Sri Chand never advocated for yoga, and actively resisted all attempts made by Nath yogis to recruit him into the Nath Sampradaya. Yoga is a well known orthodox tradition in Hinduism. The Udasi Sampradaya, from the time it was included in the Kumbha Mella to this day is recognized and registered as heterodox tradition within Hinduism. The narrative of BaBa Sri Chand as a "yogi" is a false equivalence owing to the misunderstanding of Lay people and Colloquialism. The laity don't recognize the difference between the honorific terms in used by the distinct groups that make up the whole of Hinduism. So they call one a Yogi, Sadhu, Sant, Sannyas, ext. Due to this, much confusion has been caused and BaBa ji got mislabeled.

Part of it is also do to personal practice, being a "Dhuni Sadhu" he spent most of his time sitting next to a fire. He is often pictured as seated in the "lotus position", this is not because he was a Yogi, the Buddha also sat that way. From my own experience as a Dhuni Sadhu I can tell you that if one must sit for hours a day every day than the lotus position is the most comfortable and conductive to keeping a healthy posture. Lay people may find it strange or difficult, but it creates a mechanical tension. By locking ones legs in that manner and creating an upwards force on the lower back, it allows you to use your leg leg muscles to carry the weight of your upper torso. That weight would normally be held by your lower back and cause great pain and bad posture after many years of sitting for long periods of time, as is required of a Dhuni Sadhu.