Hard Talk What Is Happening ?

[A_seeker]

The truth is that no living mortal can lay claim to any knowledge of the divine, thus, there can be no right or wrong in how people choose to know god, all we can do is use logic and knowledge to give it our best shot,

If we allow mortals to practice their divinity the way they do then why did Guru Nanak was challenging the ancient mythology and rituals in the sub continent in which people were shakled.

Can the road to divinity be understood without using logic and Knowledge? lets say with belief.

 

[A_seeker]

The truth is that no living mortal can lay claim to any knowledge of the divine, thus, there can be no right or wrong in how people choose to know god, all we can do is use logic and knowledge to give it our best shot,

If we allow people to practice their divinity the way they do then why did Guru Nanak was challenging the ancient mythology and rituals in the sub continent in which people were shackled foe centuries.

Can the road to divinity be understood without using logic and Knowledge? lets say with belief.

 

[Harry Haller]

If we allow people to practice their divinity the way they do then why did Guru Nanak was challenging the ancient mythology and rituals in the sub continent in which people were shackled foe centuries.

Can the road to divinity be understood without using logic and Knowledge? lets say with belief.

I have no idea, for me, absolutely not, for another, maybe yes, religion and god are extremely subjective, what I do know is that no one person or body has the right to tell another person or body that they are wrong,

I know what is right for me, how could I possibly know what is right for you, or anyone?

 

[Logical Sikh]

what I do know is that no one person or body has the right to tell another person or body that they are wrong,

But Guru nanak did the exact same thiing..... don't you think ?

 

[Harry Haller]

But Guru nanak did the exact same thiing..... don't you think ?

I am not Guru Nanak and neither are you, and neither is anyone for that matter, I will accept the truth only from a Guru, so in the absence of such, all we have is our own best shot, and that I am afraid is all they are, best shots

 

[Logical Sikh]

I am not Guru Nanak and neither are you, and neither is anyone for that matter, I will accept the truth only from a Guru, so in the absence of such, all we have is our own best shot, and that I am afraid is all they are, best shots

what if we try to correct someone with Guru Nanak's truth ?

 

[Harry Haller]

what if we try to correct someone with Guru Nanak's truth ?

do you know Guru Nanak's truth, or do you know what you understand from Gurbani? and even if you wish to correct someone with Guru Nanak's truth, I would love to see you start at Darbar Sahib, find whoever is running it and correct them as to the attitude towards say women doing Kirtan, or better still pop down to Hazur Sahib, have a chat with the guys there and enlighten them on this truth, are you talking about just correcting Sikhs that are a smaller build than you? or just correcting through the keyboard?

And finally, under what authority are you going to correct? What qualifications do you have? reading up on the internet is not a qualification, so what really gives you the right to correct anyone?

 

[Logical Sikh]

do you know Guru Nanak's truth, or do you know what you understand from Gurbani? and even if you wish to correct someone with Guru Nanak's truth, I would love to see you start at Darbar Sahib, find whoever is running it and correct them as to the attitude towards say women doing Kirtan, or better still pop down to Hazur Sahib, have a chat with the guys there and enlighten them on this truth, are you talking about just correcting Sikhs that are a smaller build than you? or just correcting through the keyboard?

And finally, under what authority are you going to correct? What qualifications do you have? reading up on the internet is not a qualification, so what really gives you the right to correct anyone?

i usually try to correct my parents and friends by reading gurbani in front of them..... i mean this is a good start, isn't it ?

 

[Harry Haller]

i usually try to correct my parents and friends by reading gurbani in front of them..... i mean this is a good start, isn't it ?

I don't know, what are you trying to achieve? Do you read the whole shabad and then explain your understanding? or do you just pick out lines that agree with your thoughts and manipulate them to suit your own end?

one more thing, what if your wrong? are you willing to take responsibility for your parents and friends acting on your readings? are you willing to take responsibility if such actions turn out bad? do you want that responsibility?

I sometimes ready Gurbani to my parents, and then we all have a good old discussion about it, but I would feel uncomfortable correcting my parents

John Lennon once said, 'whatever gets you through the night', well religion is a bit like that, it gets people through the night, tread very carefully before you start interrupting peoples way of dealing with things, and way of seeing things, especially older folk, how do you think someone approaching 80 is going to feel when the way that they have worshiped god all their life is exposed as a crock of shit, personally I would worry about yourself, and leave everyone else to themselves

 

[Logical Sikh]

I don't know, what are you trying to achieve? Do you read the whole shabad and then explain your understanding? or do you just pick out lines that agree with your thoughts and manipulate them to suit your own end?

one more thing, what if your wrong? are you willing to take responsibility for your parents and friends acting on your readings? are you willing to take responsibility if such actions turn out bad? do you want that responsibility?

I sometimes ready Gurbani to my parents, and then we all have a good old discussion about it, but I would feel uncomfortable correcting my parents

John Lennon once said, 'whatever gets you through the night', well religion is a bit like that, it gets people through the night, tread very carefully before you start interrupting peoples way of dealing with things, and way of seeing things, especially older folk, how do you think someone approaching 80 is going to feel when the way that they have worshiped god all their life is exposed as a crock of shit, personally I would worry about yourself, and leave everyone else to themselves

lol, at least encourage me dude XD,
btw, i was born in punjab, a native Punjabi, Most of the time we can point out if someone's translation is right or wrong abt gurbani... provided if a punjabi is actually focus...

 

[Harry Haller]

lol, at least encourage me dude XD,
btw, i was born in punjab, a native Punjabi, Most of the time we can point out if someone's translation is right or wrong abt gurbani... provided if a punjabi is actually focus...

Encourage you to do what? turn into a smug know it all that corrects his parents and friends?

you did not answer any of my questions, please take the time to answer if you wish to continue this discussion, thank you

 

[A_seeker]

do you know Guru Nanak's truth, or do you know what you understand from Gurbani? and even if you wish to correct someone with Guru Nanak's truth, I would love to see you start at Darbar Sahib,

Harry !! You replies suggest that you believe that SGGS is Agham Bodh(beyond ordinary man intellect) . Ordinary person cannot grasp or even understand the message of Gurbani .Ones need to be a superhuman first to even grasp a message.

Can you answer one simple question ?
What was the purpose of our Gurus effort to write 1430 pages of SGGS when you believe we cannot understand the truth ?

If you go through Sidha Ghost Guru Nanak had a discussion with Sidhas on many concepts .Now if i try to look through your prism from your recent replies even Nanak has no authority to express his viewpoint with Yogis .

Nanak Gya Jape Jaye!!!!
Guru Nanak makes it clear that I walked this path .Now you too walk on it.

How to walk that path: Read,Undertsand ,Believe ,walk discuss the messgae of SGGS

 

[Logical Sikh]

Encourage you to do what? turn into a smug know it all that corrects his parents and friends?


you did not answer any of my questions, please take the time to answer if you wish to continue this discussion, thank you

HAHAHA okay ill answer them first....

do you know Guru Nanak's truth, or do you know what you understand from Gurbani?

'course i dont know all of Guru Nanak's Truth, i only get a small fraction of it, and i think i understand the parts of bani which is literally written in a way that any Punjabi Speaking Guy would understand it without any translation.... for other verses which are difficult to understand on my own, i rely on Mahan Kosh and Prof. Sahib Singh's Book.

 

[Logical Sikh]

I would love to see you start at Darbar Sahib, find whoever is running it and correct them as to the attitude towards say women doing Kirtan, or better still pop down to Hazur Sahib, have a chat with the guys there and enlighten them on this truth

Believe me, That is my ultimate moto currently, But i Think people dont generally listen to any Stranger holding banners, at least not in punjab,.For that I'm currently focusing on building my career and creating my own Identity in the society so that evrybody will listen to me when i speak ( Hope this comes true ). Need to do something that people gives me STAGE to speak .... thats the only way i can Spread Guru nanak's message, at least among Sikhs.

are you talking about just correcting Sikhs that are a smaller build than you? or just correcting through the keyboard?

I am pretty small build myself, and keyboard is my only option as of now.... But once again i have started sharing Bani to parents, relatives and friends.

 

[Logical Sikh]

And finally, under what authority are you going to correct? What qualifications do you have? reading up on the internet is not a qualification, so what really gives you the right to correct anyone?

ok, so here's what i do, whenever my parents do something that is totally against SGGS's philosophy, and call themselves sikhs, and if i remember that SGGS has some verses that speaks against that particular thing that my Parents are doing......... then whats i do is, i Print those VERSES of Gurbani ( WHOLE VERSES, NOT LINES ) and i paste it on kitchen's Cabinets..... and about authority, its not that im making up things and telling them..... im just showing them Gurbani..........

 

[Logical Sikh]

what are you trying to achieve?

An Educated Punjab that use its mind before doing KARAM KAAND.

Do you read the whole shabad and then explain your understanding? or do you just pick out lines that agree with your thoughts and manipulate them to suit your own end?

i Read all the shabads ( that i can find ) regarding that topic

one more thing, what if your wrong?

i just Use gurbani to make people educated.... for many years DHONGIS have done the same thing, picking up lines that will be suitable to fool people. SO im using the same thing, picking verses to Educate them same people.... I think we should learn something from DHONGIS.....

how do you think someone approaching 80 is going to feel when the way that they have worshiped god all their life is exposed as a crock of shit,

personally, i Think at least they would teach their next generation to not to repeat same mistakes that they had done all their life.
and whats bad in that ? Guru Amar das met Guru Angad first time when Guru Amar Das ji was 60 years Old... age is just a number..... its about how you influence your coming generation.

 

[Harry Haller]

Harry !! You replies suggest that you believe that SGGS is Agham Bodh(beyond ordinary man intellect) . Ordinary person cannot grasp or even understand the message of Gurbani .Ones need to be a superhuman first to even grasp a message.

Can you answer one simple question ?
What was the purpose of our Gurus effort to write 1430 pages of SGGS when you believe we cannot understand the truth ?

If you go through Sidha Ghost Guru Nanak had a discussion with Sidhas on many concepts .Now if i try to look through your prism from your recent replies even Nanak has no authority to express his viewpoint with Yogis .

Nanak Gya Jape Jaye!!!!
Guru Nanak makes it clear that I walked this path .Now you too walk on it.

How to walk that path: Read,Undertsand ,Believe ,walk discuss the messgae of SGGS

I think anyone can understand the message of Gurbani and apply it to their life, its actually not that hard, Mool Mantra would appear to be an excellent summary of the facets needed to understand Gurbani, if one can exhibit these qualities, then one is already most of the way there to applying these to living. However, ordinary person is not a Guru, ordinary person is not perfect, and ordinary person is not 100% correct, if you are asking me if Gurbani can make your life better, I would say absolutely, if your asking if Gurbani can you turn you into a mystical fakir who knows everything and can teach people, I am not so sure.

The purpose was to help people live a better life, in my view anyway,

 

[Harry Haller]

course i dont know all of Guru Nanak's Truth, i only get a small fraction of it, and i think i understand the parts of bani which is literally written in a way that any Punjabi Speaking Guy would understand it without any translation.... for other verses which are difficult to understand on my own, i rely on Mahan Kosh and Prof. Sahib Singh's Book.

In which case your not following Guru Nanak, your following Prof Sahib Singh

 

[Harry Haller]

Believe me, That is my ultimate moto currently, But i Think people dont generally listen to any Stranger holding banners, at least not in punjab,.For that I'm currently focusing on building my career and creating my own Identity in the society so that evrybody will listen to me when i speak ( Hope this comes true ). Need to do something that people gives me STAGE to speak .... thats the only way i can Spread Guru nanak's message, at least among Sikhs.

well good luck my friend, I have no idea what your agenda is, or why you would wish to do this, but it is hard not to see a lot of ego in the above,.

 

[Harry Haller]

ok, so here's what i do, whenever my parents do something that is totally against SGGS's philosophy, and call themselves sikhs, and if i remember that SGGS has some verses that speaks against that particular thing that my Parents are doing......... then whats i do is, i Print those VERSES of Gurbani ( WHOLE VERSES, NOT LINES ) and i paste it on kitchen's Cabinets..... and about authority, its not that im making up things and telling them..... im just showing them Gurbani..........

You must be a joy to live with...