What Is Naam?

[Harry Haller]

Same thing.... makes no difference dude !!

It is possible I am also as ignorant, but how is killing the entirety of the mind the same as killing the desires?

How would you kill desires ??..................

by understanding them, understanding the consequences, by being mature in your thinking, by not behaving like an animal, by behaving with grace and having respect for yourself

Don't desires arise from thoughts ?..................

some thoughts, desires arise from some thoughts, not reason enough to kill all thoughts

Wouldn't it be, by NOT following thoughts and trying to follow just ONE thought ??

you mean like a zombie?

Killing the mind means killing the thoughts and to die in the shabad.

I know what killing the mind means, and I also know the consequences, Sikhism is not about losing yourself completely, to me it is about gaining the truth, and complimenting yourself with such. It is about being yourself, but your true self, not just squeezing everything out and then being true.

You're just not getting it or are just refusing to follow !

Why should he get it, why should I get it, why should any of us get it, these are your thoughts, your opinions, your musings which you have formed in your own way, I find it arrogant and egoistical to assume we should all get it.

Let me rephrase again for you how your mind works for the last time !

This is actually the height of arrogance and ego, it is actually one of the strangest statements you have come out with, it tops everything, that you, the Great Luckyji knows more about how another's mind words, better than the owner, brilliant, keep going!

You still have No idea that (or it's just pure ignorance)....

oh well that makes at least two ignorant people reading this, because I also have no idea what point you are trying to make, other than in your view, we should all be zombies.

 

[Ishna]

Humbly disagreeing about killing the mind = killing thoughts = dying in the shabad. The mind is not an enemy any more than your body is an enemy. The sense of duality and separation from Everything is the issue (haumai). The opposite of that condition is Naam, realisation of the essential, interconnected Reality behind every little thing.

 

[Sherdil]

Humbly disagreeing about killing the mind = killing thoughts = dying in the shabad. The mind is not an enemy any more than your body is an enemy. The sense of duality and separation from Everything is the issue (haumai). The opposite of that condition is Naam, realisation of the essential, interconnected Reality behind every little thing.

I agree with this. If anything, we are trying to wake the mind up.

Maybe to die in the shabadh means to blend with it. Instead of marching to our own tune, we should begin to listen to the cosmic song, and realize that we are a part of this song. I think in this way, Haumai is eradicated.

Killing the thoughts is something else. If it means to stop the mind from wandering, I would say that we cannot do this. Look at people with ADD. The only way they can focus is by taking a pill.

We must not stop wandering. Rather, we must change what we see when we wander. If all we see is The One, then I think it's okay if we wander.

 

[Ishna]

Ego is a necessary part of human psychology, and without one we might find ourselves to be vegetables. To that end, haumai (translated as separation, duality of you-me distinction) is the true veil of illusion. The Shabad sings about our interonnectedness, and to die in the shabad is to replace dualistic thought-patterns with shabad-inspired ones which transform our thinking and our behaviour from self-centred haumai to slave-of-the-Sat, tuned-into-the-state-of-Naam Gursikhs.

We forget our interconnectedness all the time as our focus/attunement is stolen by the five theives (the panj dhoot) and we are enticed by the illusion of separation and stand proudly atop our tiny mountain of me-ism as if we rule the world. *snickers*

Then we are old, frail, sick, alone and suffering and there's nothing left but the Sat and we are alone with it, the unfamiliarity of it is a curse for the manmukh. But for the Gursikh, who is already well acquainted with the Sat, and lived their life to the best of their abilities remembering the interconnectedness, then the suffering and death is just another bead on the Sat's eternal thread of Creation.

Such a deep seated knowing, realisation, contentment with the Reality is Naam; reminding ourself of it is simran, and the shabad, which has been around forever, and the Guru Granth Sahib Ji is our window into, is the spiritual wisdom given to us by Guru (who is the Sat) with the power to connect us to the Naam mindset.

imho.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Thanks for pointing out my ignorance but then how would you interpret, 'vin gun keetai bhagat hoey'

Sahni Ji..
You have hit the Jackpot...
Vinn GUNN KEETEYH.....Bhagat NA Hoeyeh...

The pivotal words for me are GUNN...KEETEYH..and Bhagat

The NAAM comprises the GUNNS..of HIM, the Creator...and Keeteyh means DONE..Performed..ACTED UPON....and Bhagat meaning BHAGTEE..

The NAAM are His GUNNS which have to be Kamaiieed ( through ACTION..performing them in action in our daily lives to result in real Bhagtee.....and not just mouthing or murmuring some word or twirling the pearls beads of a maala and calling that bhagtee.

The VERY first and Fundamental GUNN of HIM is SATNAAM...TRUTH...and Guru Ji has DOUBLE STRESSED the Kamaii of TRUTH when He wrote..TRUTH is HIGH (SATNAAM)..BUT HIGHER STILL is TRUTHFUL LIVING !!! That sums up my views..one has to IMBIBE TRUTH into our daily life so we LIVE TRUTHFULLY and become SACHIAREH..as its also written SACHIREH SIKH BAITHHEN SATGUR PASS..the Truthful living sikhs sit beside the GURU.

Now a days most - 99.9% of Babas and their followers just naam-dhreek Sikhs have discarded Truthful LIVING...and are just MECHANICAL ROBOTS...mouthing the "naam" mechanically...recording these NUMBERS as 101 Jaaps..1001 jaaps..125,000 jaaps..lakh jaaps..sava lakh..million..kror jaaps..kror chaupaiis..lakh ardasses..kror WAHEGURUS written in Copy Books and passed up to the Cheif Baba to Mark as PASSED !! etc etc..and CREMATED after a "ARDASS".....but continuing to live the same old UNTRUTHFUL LIVES..lying cheating..krodh kaam lobh moh full lives...

So much so even the Jathedars dish out "PUNISHMENTS" like..go to Hazoor sahib and LISTEN to 2 hours Kirtan...go to Akal takhat and listen to 1 hour Jaap...or go home and read Japji 21 times...!!!! and once you ahev completed that come back here and we will do the ARDASS to forgive YOU !!!

Clearly HUMPTY DUMPTY has Fallen and broken....and all the Jathedars cant fix it....

 

[Sherdil]

In the other thread, started by AoG, it was discussed that the earth is the body and the mind is the pool of nectar.

Can the mind also be considered a temple? Considering context and audience, was Guru ji trying to steer people away from idol worship when he spoke of enshrining the Lord's name in your mind?

Ostensibly, idol worship is a means by which people can focus their devotion towards God. However, this subtlety was lost and the idol became God himself for the devotees.

So I think Guru ji was giving us another way to focus our love and devotion. Enshrine the Naam in the temple of our minds and there The Lord will come to abide. Understand the meaning of Naam, and focus your mind on that meaning so that we can see through the veil of illusion draped over our eyes.

I think this is what I would also tell people who pray to images of the Guru Sahiban. Enshrine their teachings within your mind and you will carry them with you wherever you go.

 

[arshi]

I had good reasons to keep my distance from all forums, at least for a while, but the sad departure of Narayanjot ji prompted me to pay my respects.

During the process I stumbled upon this thread which I found to be quite interesting and absorbing with excellent contributions all around, not the Sahni ji least from Sahni ji (who I had the good fortune of meeting, briefly, during my travels a few years ago and Lucky ji – it’s a pity it went off course somewhat. In my opinion, Lucky ji had a lot to contribute and hopefully he will resume with his valuable inputs.

Sherdil ji made the following interesting observation:

Ostensibly, idol worship is a means by which people can focus their devotion towards God. However, this subtlety was lost and the idol became God himself for the devotees.

He is absolutely right – a lot of things start in good faith and then end up as rituals. This is happening a lot in Sikhi too. To me continual recital of Gurmantar is a means to end. Repeated number of Paaths, e.g. Anand Sahib, is also a means to an end – Bani kannth karni (learn be heart) – so that we can access it at any time to guide us in our practical dealings in life. The amount of print material and technology, we have in contemporary times, was not available to Sikhs centuries ago – they had to live like nomads fighting for survival in forests and on the run 24/7. They had to memorise Gurbani. There is nothing wrong in repetition. However, without practical execution this becomes a mere ritual.

The END here lies in getting rid of the negative traits, thought replacement or thought conversion – ie through shabad, killing the negative mind, to align it with the wisdom bestowed upon us by our Gurus through the Jagdi Joyt Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. I find the following very panktis helpful in guiding me:

naanak sabad marai man maanee-ai saachay saachee so-ay. (1417 - 1)
The mind can only be reconciled to the teachings of the Guru through shabad. Such a person is free of all vikaars and lives in constant bliss.

sabad marai so-ee jan sijhai bin sabdai mukat na ho-ee. (1416 - 16)
Only those who die in the Shabad succeed in finding mukti (liberation). Without the Shabad, no one is liberated (mukti from the five enemies, i.e. negative traits).

The following pankti appeared during the discussion:
ih man saktee ih man see-o; ih man panch tat ko jee-o. (342)

Translating Gurbani is not always a straight forward task. To understand this pankti better one needs to look at the whole shabad, which I did. However, I will only post my own understanding when I am completely satisfied with the interpretation.

WJKK WJKF

Humbly
Rajinder singh ‘Arshi'

 

[chazSingh]

In the other thread, started by AoG, it was discussed that the earth is the body and the mind is the pool of nectar.

Can the mind also be considered a temple? Considering context and audience, was Guru ji trying to steer people away from idol worship when he spoke of enshrining the Lord's name in your mind?

Ostensibly, idol worship is a means by which people can focus their devotion towards God. However, this subtlety was lost and the idol became God himself for the devotees.

So I think Guru ji was giving us another way to focus our love and devotion. Enshrine the Naam in the temple of our minds and there The Lord will come to abide. Understand the meaning of Naam, and focus your mind on that meaning so that we can see through the veil of illusion draped over our eyes.

I think this is what I would also tell people who pray to images of the Guru Sahiban. Enshrine their teachings within your mind and you will carry them with you wherever you go.

yup, stay focussed on where you want to go...where you want to be...

a focused mind see's all...a mind being dragged in all corners tends to miss what is right before us in the present...

 

[chazSingh]

I'm hoping i am not re-posting a shabad that has already been posted but i think this shabad explains everything clearly about:

1. the mind that is required by us in life and in creation..
2. the mind that is far too attracted and lost in Ego, anger, lust , greed, desires
3. the mind that once drawn in my the grace of Guru Ji starts to get enraptured by what it has been so blind to for such a long time
3. the mind that loses interest in meaningless things and beholds the light within...

Such an Amazing Shabad...

ਗਉੜੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੪ ॥
गउड़ी महला ४ ॥
Ga▫oṛī mėhlā 4.
Gauree, Fourth Mehl:

ਮਨ ਕਰਹਲਾ ਵੀਚਾਰੀਆ ਵੀਚਾਰਿ ਦੇਖੁ ਸਮਾਲਿ ॥
मन करहला वीचारीआ वीचारि देखु समालि ॥
Man karhalā vīcẖārī▫ā vīcẖār ḏekẖ samāl.
O contemplative camel-like mind, contemplate and look carefully.

ਬਨ ਫਿਰਿ ਥਕੇ ਬਨ ਵਾਸੀਆ ਪਿਰੁ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਰਿਦੈ ਨਿਹਾਲਿ ॥੧॥
]बन फिरि थके बन वासीआ पिरु गुरमति रिदै निहालि ॥१॥
Ban fir thake ban vāsī▫ā pir gurmaṯ riḏai nihāl. ||1||
The forest-dwellers have grown weary of wandering in the forests; following the Guru's Teachings, see your Husband Lord within your heart. ||1||

ਮਨ ਕਰਹਲਾ ਗੁਰ ਗੋਵਿੰਦੁ ਸਮਾਲਿ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
मन करहला गुर गोविंदु समालि ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Man karhalā gur govinḏ samāl. ||1|| rahā▫o.
O camel-like mind, dwell upon the Guru and the Lord of the Universe. ||1||Pause||

ਮਨ ਕਰਹਲਾ ਵੀਚਾਰੀਆ ਮਨਮੁਖ ਫਾਥਿਆ ਮਹਾ ਜਾਲਿ ॥
मन करहला वीचारीआ मनमुख फाथिआ महा जालि ॥
Man karhalā vīcẖārī▫ā manmukẖ fāthi▫ā mahā jāl.
O camel-like contemplative mind, the self-willed manmukhs are caught in the great net.

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਪ੍ਰਾਣੀ ਮੁਕਤੁ ਹੈ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਮਾਲਿ ॥੨॥
गुरमुखि प्राणी मुकतु है हरि हरि नामु समालि ॥२॥
Gurmukẖ parāṇī mukaṯ hai har har nām samāl. ||2||
The mortal who becomes Gurmukh is liberated, dwelling upon the Name of the Lord, Har, Har. ||2||

ਮਨ ਕਰਹਲਾ ਮੇਰੇ ਪਿਆਰਿਆ ਸਤਸੰਗਤਿ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਭਾਲਿ ॥
मन करहला मेरे पिआरिआ सतसंगति सतिगुरु भालि ॥
Man karhalā mere pi▫āri▫ā saṯsangaṯ saṯgur bẖāl.
O my dear beloved camel-like mind, seek the Sat Sangat, the True Congregation, and the True Guru.

ਸਤਸੰਗਤਿ ਲਗਿ ਹਰਿ ਧਿਆਈਐ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਚਲੈ ਤੇਰੈ ਨਾਲਿ ॥੩॥
सतसंगति लगि हरि धिआईऐ हरि हरि चलै तेरै नालि ॥३॥
Saṯsangaṯ lag har ḏẖi▫ā▫ī▫ai har har cẖalai ṯerai nāl. ||3||
Joining the Sat Sangat, meditate on the Lord, and the Lord, Har, Har, shall go along with you. ||3||

ਮਨ ਕਰਹਲਾ ਵਡਭਾਗੀਆ ਹਰਿ ਏਕ ਨਦਰਿ ਨਿਹਾਲਿ ॥
मन करहला वडभागीआ हरि एक नदरि निहालि ॥
Man karhalā vadbẖāgī▫ā har ek naḏar nihāl.
O very fortunate camel-like mind, with one Glance of Grace from the Lord, you shall be enraptured.

ਆਪਿ ਛਡਾਏ ਛੁਟੀਐ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਚਰਣ ਸਮਾਲਿ ॥੪॥
आपि छडाए छुटीऐ सतिगुर चरण समालि ॥४॥
Āp cẖẖadā▫e cẖẖutī▫ai saṯgur cẖaraṇ samāl. ||4||
If the Lord Himself saves you, then you shall be saved. Dwell upon the Feet of the True Guru. ||4||

ਮਨ ਕਰਹਲਾ ਮੇਰੇ ਪਿਆਰਿਆ ਵਿਚਿ ਦੇਹੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਸਮਾਲਿ ॥
मन करहला मेरे पिआरिआ विचि देही जोति समालि ॥
Man karhalā mere pi▫āri▫ā vicẖ ḏehī joṯ samāl.
O my dear beloved camel-like mind, dwell upon the Divine Light within the body.

ਗੁਰਿ ਨਉ ਨਿਧਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਵਿਖਾਲਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਦਾਤਿ ਕਰੀ ਦਇਆਲਿ ॥੫॥
गुरि नउ निधि नामु विखालिआ हरि दाति करी दइआलि ॥५॥
Gur na▫o niḏẖ nām vikẖāli▫ā har ḏāṯ karī ḏa▫i▫āl. ||5||
The Guru has shown me the nine treasures of the Naam. The Merciful Lord has bestowed this gift. ||5||

ਮਨ ਕਰਹਲਾ ਤੂੰ ਚੰਚਲਾ ਚਤੁਰਾਈ ਛਡਿ ਵਿਕਰਾਲਿ ॥
मन करहला तूं चंचला चतुराई छडि विकरालि ॥
Man karhalā ṯūʼn cẖancẖlā cẖaṯurā▫ī cẖẖad vikrāl.
O camel-like mind, you are so fickle; give up your cleverness and corruption.

ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਮਾਲਿ ਤੂੰ ਹਰਿ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਕਰੇ ਅੰਤ ਕਾਲਿ ॥੬॥
हरि हरि नामु समालि तूं हरि मुकति करे अंत कालि ॥६॥
Har har nām samāl ṯūʼn har mukaṯ kare anṯ kāl. ||6||
Dwell upon the Name of the Lord, Har, Har; at the very last moment, the Lord shall liberate you. ||6||

ਮਨ ਕਰਹਲਾ ਵਡਭਾਗੀਆ ਤੂੰ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਰਤਨੁ ਸਮਾਲਿ ॥
मन करहला वडभागीआ तूं गिआनु रतनु समालि ॥
Man karhalā vadbẖāgī▫ā ṯūʼn gi▫ān raṯan samāl.
O camel-like mind, you are so very fortunate; dwell upon the jewel of spiritual wisdom.

ਗੁਰ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਖੜਗੁ ਹਥਿ ਧਾਰਿਆ ਜਮੁ ਮਾਰਿਅੜਾ ਜਮਕਾਲਿ ॥੭॥
गुर गिआनु खड़गु हथि धारिआ जमु मारिअड़ा जमकालि ॥७॥
Gur gi▫ān kẖaṛag hath ḏẖāri▫ā jam māri▫aṛā jamkāl. ||7||
You hold in your hands the sword of the Guru's spiritual wisdom; with this destroyer of death, kill the Messenger of Death. ||7||

ਅੰਤਰਿ ਨਿਧਾਨੁ ਮਨ ਕਰਹਲੇ ਭ੍ਰਮਿ ਭਵਹਿ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਭਾਲਿ ॥
अंतरि निधानु मन करहले भ्रमि भवहि बाहरि भालि ॥
Anṯar niḏẖān man karhale bẖaram bẖavėh bāhar bẖāl.
The treasure is deep within, O camel-like mind, but you wander around outside in doubt, searching for it.

ਗੁਰੁ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਪੂਰਾ ਭੇਟਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਸਜਣੁ ਲਧੜਾ ਨਾਲਿ ॥੮॥
गुरु पुरखु पूरा भेटिआ हरि सजणु लधड़ा नालि ॥८॥
Gur purakẖ pūrā bẖeti▫ā har sajaṇ laḏẖ▫ṛā nāl. ||8||
Meeting the Perfect Guru, the Primal Being, you shall discover that the Lord, your Best Friend, is with you. ||8||

ਰੰਗਿ ਰਤੜੇ ਮਨ ਕਰਹਲੇ ਹਰਿ ਰੰਗੁ ਸਦਾ ਸਮਾਲਿ ॥
रंगि रतड़े मन करहले हरि रंगु सदा समालि ॥
Rang raṯ▫ṛe man karhale har rang saḏā samāl.
You are engrossed in pleasures, O camel-like mind; dwell upon the Lord's lasting love instead!

ਹਰਿ ਰੰਗੁ ਕਦੇ ਨ ਉਤਰੈ ਗੁਰ ਸੇਵਾ ਸਬਦੁ ਸਮਾਲਿ ॥੯॥
हरि रंगु कदे न उतरै गुर सेवा सबदु समालि ॥९॥
Har rang kaḏe na uṯrai gur sevā sabaḏ samāl. ||9||
The color of the Lord's Love never fades away; serve the Guru, and dwell upon the Word of the Shabad. ||9||

ਹਮ ਪੰਖੀ ਮਨ ਕਰਹਲੇ ਹਰਿ ਤਰਵਰੁ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਅਕਾਲਿ ॥
हम पंखी मन करहले हरि तरवरु पुरखु अकालि ॥
Ham pankẖī man karhale har ṯarvar purakẖ akāl.
We are birds, O camel-like mind; the Lord, the Immortal Primal Being, is the tree.

ਵਡਭਾਗੀ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਪਾਇਆ ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਮਾਲਿ ॥੧੦॥੨॥
वडभागी गुरमुखि पाइआ जन नानक नामु समालि ॥१०॥२॥
vadbẖāgī gurmukẖ pā▫i▫ā jan Nānak nām samāl. ||10||2||
The Gurmukhs are very fortunate - they find it. O servant Nanak, dwell upon the Naam, the Name of the Lord. ||10||2||

 

[Original]

Chaz Ji

Beautiful shabad ! Maaza ah jaanda gah ka te sunn ka, if you pitch it right !

Sherdil Ji, the initiator of the actual thread asked specific questions with which I'm inclined to set-sail and see whether satisfactory explanations can be had.

First n foremost, can I, from the participators in general ask, does fire have history ?

 

[Ishna]

I will fix the formatting of Chaz's post as soon as I have time. Thanks for you patience

 

[Ishna]

Fixed.

 

[japjisahib04]

The following pankties are more appropriate:

ਜਿਸ ਦੀ ਸੇਵਾ ਕੀਤੀ ਫਿਰਿ ਲੇਖਾ ਮੰਗੀਐ ਸਾ ਸੇਵਾ ਅਉਖੀ ਹੋਈ ॥
जिस दी सेवा कीती फिरि लेखा मंगीऐ सा सेवा अउखी होई ॥
Jis ḏī sevā kīṯī fir lekẖā mangī▫ai sā sevā a▫ukẖī ho▫ī.
By following guidance of manh, you will be accountable and that following is painful and useless.

ਨਾਨਕ ਸੇਵਾ ਕਰਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਰ ਸਫਲ ਦਰਸਨ ਕੀ ਫਿਰਿ ਲੇਖਾ ਮੰਗੈ ਨ ਕੋਈ ॥੨॥
नानक सेवा करहु हरि गुर सफल दरसन की फिरि लेखा मंगै न कोई ॥२॥
Nānak sevā karahu har gur safal ḏarsan kī fir lekẖā mangai na ko▫ī. ||2||
Thus O Nanak, By following instruction of conscience, you will not able accountable and mission accomplished. ||2||

Complete Shabad: Guru Granth Sahib Page 306