Who Are The Gurus?

[Archived_Member_19]

udasi thought goes against a lot contained in SGGS

esp

celibacy
rituals
etc

 

[TGill]

Yes Amar ji,

I just tried to show how painters have painter Baba Nanak and Baba Nanak's son and how he was revered by the Gurus thats it.... Nothing more nothing less...

But then question arose, baba sri chand were baba nanak's son, why would Guru let his own son become an Udasi (celibate etc.)...
I don't think that is what happened. I think Baba SriChand was so engrossed in akal's bliss that for him anything else didn't matter, not even becoming a garihsth.... who knows the reality... Sorry, I'm just writing my mind aloud !!

 

[TGill]

Guru Hargobind ji... source - exoticindiaart.com

 

[TGill]

Physical description of Guru Gobind singh as given by Sri Singh
http://www.mrsikhnet.com/mp3player/...scribing guru gobind singh - july 14 1981.mp3

You can download it...

 

[drkhalsa]

Physical description of Guru Gobind singh as given by Sri Singh
http://www.mrsikhnet.com/mp3player/e...014%201981.mp3

You can download it...

Have listened to it some time back when it was posted on mrsikhnet

Its kind of fairu tale kind of bed time story for KIDS it like listening to it

Yogi ji stresed the point that Guru Gobind Singh ji was stauch Vegetarian just like Yogi ji himself which really makes it even more fary tail

 

[TGill]

 

[pk70]

It is just amazing to hear about very personal description of Guru Gobind Singh from a person who, being a Sikh, even doest know/remember Bhai Nand Lal's name. He describes height of Guru " 5.4.12"
Who measured Guru ji in a so pricise way? I thought when people get spiritual, learn more about the enlightened ones, they stop gossipping, I was wrong.

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

Ref. ..Who are Gurus?
To understand who are Gurus we will first have to understand the intrinsic meaning of the word GURU. There is only ONE GUROO and that is SHABADu as per Gurbaani.
The word GURU is the reference for GUROO JOTi{The wave of the word GUROO}.
The word GURU is SINGULAR for the reference of this wave and its PLURAL is the word GUR.
It is this GUROO JOTi that refered itself as NANAKu and or NANAK.Since it is the NANAKu/ NANAK JOTi that enlightened other to be refered as GURU.
So our GURUS were NANAKu/NANAK JOTi and the same is enlightened in our present SGGS Ji.That is how we can refer SGGS Ji as our LIVING GURU
Prakash.s.bagga

 

[sunmukh]

Ek OnKaar Sat Naam

"Who are the Gurus?"

I think everyone will give slightly different answer.

From my own point of view there were 10 Sikh human Gurus, starting from Guru Nanak Dev ji, and these have been succeeded by SGGS ji. There is only one Guru now.

As for references to "Guru" in SGGS ji, I believe that overwhelmimg majority of these do not refer to any one of the 6 Gurus that contributed to SGGS ji.
They refer to the Guru within, or the Sat Guru, the seed implanted by God in each and every person. This Guru can show the right path, if one opens one's mind and listens with intent. This is God consciousness, but not knowledge of God, which no-one has. All one has to do is then follow this inbuilt innate Hukam of God. This Guru judges instantly whether one is doing right or wong, is acting truthfully or untruthfully. When one is running against one's conscience, one can get very uncomfortable, but when one does what one believes to be right, then there is great contentment. This does not mean the action will be "right" from others point of view, as the judgements will depend on where one was born, and how one was raised (God's Hukam again)
God will ultimately judge who was right and who was wrong, and as we humans have no say, it is best not to struggle too much either, trying to get it right, as only God knows what is actually right.
karmee aapo aapnee kay nayrhai kay door

Sat Sri Akal

 

[Seeker9]

The Gurus were human beings that became one with God.


They were not sent by God -- It took 30 years before Guru Nanak had completely began to change the region...there was no "baby Nanak" similar to Baby Jesus's birth. Guru Nanaks birth was not prophecized.

They are not prophets from God -- None of them claimed knowledge of the future and its holdings.

They are not aspects of God -- They just speak the message, which they think is God's true message. This is shown because the Gurus acknowledged other pathways to finding God. They knew, that they only speak one certain message to get to God. Guru Nanak denounced the multiple Gods in Hinduism that claimed to be aspects of the one true God....but one can also argue, that everyone is an aspect of God.

The Introduction of the book "Soft Target" does a nice analysis on Guru Nanak's history, and his childhood. Some of these questions are answered there.

This quote is from page 1 of this thread

Does everyone agree with this?

Following on from this, what would be the definition of Bhagat?

This is a genuine question and I would appreciate a genuine answer

Thanks
:blueturban:

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

SEEKER9 Ji;
Pl accept my Divine Greetings
Actually the word GURU is the reference for the GUROO JOTi.
In Gurbaani we would find that there is no concept that of meeting with GOD by any of person thru whom Gurbaani was revealed.No where in Gurbaani NANAK as person claimed as GURU.
It is this GUROO JOTi which is OMNIPOTENT{HARi}and OMNIPRESENT{RAM}.NANAK as person is DAS of HARi only.Similar is the situation with BHAGATS .
If we deeply understand Gurbaani We would come to know that this GUROO JOTi assumed the nameof NANAK and because of this effect others GURUs are referred as NANAK-2,NANAK-3 like that SGGSji is also NANAK JOTi a living GURU.
For more clarification on this you may pl consider a Quote from SGGS ji refer pp490-491where it is
NANAK GUR TE GURU HOEAA VEKHO TIS KI RAJAAI
EHU KARAN KARTA KARE JOTI JOTi SAMAAI pp490-491SGGS Ji
Prakash.s.baggaswordfight

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

JUSTRANDEEPSINGH Ji
WAHiGUROO Ji KA Khalsa
WAHiGUROO Li Ki Fateh
Out ten GURUS are part of GUROO JOTi Only.
There is no concept of GURU either being GOD or meeting GOD in Sikh Philosophy.Because there is no concept of GURU and GOD as two separate entities in Sikhism.
Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[Seeker9]

It is this GUROO JOTi which is OMNIPOTENT{HARi}and OMNIPRESENT{RAM}.NANAK as person is DAS of HARi only.Similar is the situation with BHAGATS .
Prakash.s.baggaswordfight

Dear Prakash Bagga Ji

Many thanks for this

Grateful if you could tell me more about the differences between Gurus and Bhagats. I am asking because there are people who sometimes get very heated about this distinction and I don't understand why

If both Gurus and Bhagats managed to return to the Source, any distinction would be irrelevant wouldn't it?

Thanks

 

[Seeker9]

JUSTRANDEEPSINGH Ji
WAHiGUROO Ji KA Khalsa
WAHiGUROO Li Ki Fateh
Out ten GURUS are part of GUROO JOTi Only.
There is no concept of GURU either being GOD or meeting GOD in Sikh Philosophy.Because there is no concept of GURU and GOD as two separate entities in Sikhism.
Prakash.S.Bagga

Dear Prakash Ji

Thanks for this

How did this Guru Joti transfer when there is successorship and a new Guru continued the path?

Did 10th Guru transfer Guru Joti to SGGSJ

I hope I am not offending anyone by asking these questions.....I don't know the answers so that is why I am asking

Thanks again
rangesingh:

 

[spnadmin]

Dear Prakash Ji


Did 10th Guru transfer Guru Joti to Sri Guru Granth SahibJ

I hope I am not offending anyone by asking these questions.....I don't know the answers so that is why I am asking

Thanks again
rangesingh:

In my humble opinion, the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj is the written from of the shabad Guru. The jyote is and was always in the shabad and the shabad was always the Guru aad such jugaad such hai bi such .It was not then a matter of transferring the jyote to Guru Granth Sahib when Guru Gobind Singh was in the final hours of his earthly life. The jyote was always there, and he was affirming to the panth that the shabad was, is, and would continue as Guru when he gave the hukam "Sabh sikhaan ko hukam hai Guru manyeo granth."

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

SEEKER9Ji,
Placcept my Divine Greetings,
I am equally thakful to you for your positive interaction in the subject of discussion.
Regarding your first question my views are as under
GUROOJOTi is the same in BHAGATS as well as in GURUS.That is why in Gurbaani
our GURUS recognised their status as equivalent to themselves.
The distinction is probably related to the fact that in their respective periods BHAGATS were refered like that so the same reference seems to have been maintained.

Regarding your second question refering to the transfer of GUROO JOTi from one to another I am incapable to present my views as this process is unique and marvellous in
Sikh Philosophy.It is sfficient to understand that this did happen.
For Some little understanding you may pl consider the process of Electric Power being transferred from the generating point to different Transformers.This mechanism may be of some guidance.
With kind regards
Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

SHABADUGUROO and SHABADUGUROO JOTi is a unique concept which GURUNANAK Ji disclosed to the world.This concept is the core concept of Gurbaani.This concept actually
places Gurbaani in distinguished position compared to others.
We all must understand the significance of this concept in ones life.This concept must be promoted as the UNIVERSAL CONCEPT OF SPRITUALITY.This concept is a unique GIFT of our GURUs to the whole of MANKIND.
Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[Seeker9]

SEEKER9Ji,.
Regarding your first question my views are as under
GUROOJOTi is the same in BHAGATS as well as in GURUS.That is why in Gurbaani
our GURUS recognised their status as equivalent to themselves.
The distinction is probably related to the fact that in their respective periods BHAGATS were refered like that so the same reference seems to have been maintained
Prakash.S.Bagga

Dear Prakash Ji
Thanks for this
It is a shame more people don't recognise this
So the Gurus then would have been spiritual leaders of the path but they recognised the acheivements of the Bhagats?

 

[findingmyway]

In my mind the difference in the bhagats and the Gurus is that they followed different paths. All the Gurus' shabads are in the Guru Granth Sahib Ji but the Guru's did not include all the shabads sung/written by the bhagats-only those inline with Sikh philosphy. They were enlightened souls and this was recognised but they also had additional ideas which we do not learn from. This is the biggest difference that I can see between the Gurus and Bhagats.
Jasleen

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

FINDINDMYWAY Ji
Placcept my Divine Greetings

First we must be clear that the BAANI in SGGS Ji is neither of Any GURU in person or any BHAGAT.The Source of the whole Gurbaani is SHABADUGUROO Only.If we look at this aspect of Gurbaani we would find no difference in GURUS and BHAGATs as well.
Our GURS are reffered GURU because of GUROO JOTi which itself is reffered as NANAKU/NANAK.
It is not So in case of BHAGATS.
We must rather try to differetiate the intrinsic meanings of the words GUROO/GURU and GUR to properly understand the correct message of Gurbaani.
It is surprising to notice that we do not make any difference in meanings of the words GUROO/GURU and GUR.These three words are gramatically different so there should be three different meanings of the words.
Unless we know the above concept of Gurbaani How can understand what our GURUS are conveying to us.
Shri GURU ARJAN DEV Ji presented the Gurbaani with complete direction of grammer of the words so that we are not astrayed in other meanings.
How do we axccept this?
Prakash.S.Bagga