I can guess it is taking a long time. This kind of work - the model for organizing information that you have proposed - could be the framework for a master's thesis for a university program in religious studies. But once you have a draft, you will have something that will take you a long way into the future because you will be able to add to it and develop it.
Why Desire To End Reincarnation?
- Thread starter Ozarks
- Start date
- Replies 88
- Reads 22K
-
- Tags
- desire end reincarnation
Tejwant Singh ji,
You: ‘You have quoted 1/3 of the whole verse which is on page 47 of Sri Guru Granth Sahib, in search for the word soul.’
Me: Yes. A LOT of use of the word soul throughout.
You: ’ Can you please enlighten us which word in the following partial verse means soul.’
jIau pRwx mnu qnu hry swcw eyhu suAwau ]
jeeo praan man than harae saachaa eaehu suaao ||
Your soul, breath of life, mind and body shall blossom forth in lush profusion; this is the true purpose of life.
Guru Arjan Dev Ji
Siree Raag 47
Me: Truthfully, I am not seeing a ‘meaning’ or definition for soul yet from SGGS ji. Lots of descriptions, but not definitions.
You: ‘Can you also please give your personal take on this?’
Me: From the RAHAO on down to the quoted line, this is what I glean from the English . . . Note that I am giving a personally relevant understanding, paying more attention to the sentiments and thoughts that arise in me. There’s little point in attempting a ‘scholarly analysis’ of the translation and I can’t read Gurmukhi. As you, yourself point out, the English translations are not so trustworthy. An intuitive interpretation is the best I can do.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Surround yourself with devotees of the Beloved and do not let your consciousness stray from humble devotion to that Presence you can perceive. They whose minds are graced by the Guru to adore the True Name know the high value of such a predisposition. Through practice at the highest degree of dedication and devotion one is capable of, one will certainly find fulfilment. The five thieves will be eradicated from within, uncertainty and ignorance will be removed and ones potential in this lifetime will be achieved. There will not be cause to return to this world. Find the Company of the Holy to purify yourself inwardly and outwardly. Upon joining the True Congregation, your entire being will become robust and enlivened, because this is what you were born to do.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You: ‘We also know that the shabad that has the verse of RAHAO in it shows us the central idea/message of the whole shabad.’
Me: I did not know that. Thank you for that very useful tip. I will definitely use that from now on.
You: Does your take compliment that verse?’
Me: If I just took the one line, ‘Your soul, breath of life, mind and body shall blossom forth in lush profusion; this is the true purpose of life.’ I would have concluded that a life of dedicated devotional practice would result is the blossoming and is the purpose of life. I wouldn’t have put such a strong emphasis on the Company of the Holy, yet congregation and community interaction are objectives that I – increasingly – feel must accompany individual spiritual development . . . we’re all in this together. . . If Waheguru wouldn’t forsake a single soul, neither should any one of us.
Here’s a question for you: If you (your soul and conscious awareness) had to return to this world to serve the Will of God and aid the soul-journey of other beings, would you have a genuine desire to do so?
Sat Sri Akal,
t
You: ‘You have quoted 1/3 of the whole verse which is on page 47 of Sri Guru Granth Sahib, in search for the word soul.’
Me: Yes. A LOT of use of the word soul throughout.
You: ’ Can you please enlighten us which word in the following partial verse means soul.’
jIau pRwx mnu qnu hry swcw eyhu suAwau ]
jeeo praan man than harae saachaa eaehu suaao ||
Your soul, breath of life, mind and body shall blossom forth in lush profusion; this is the true purpose of life.
Guru Arjan Dev Ji
Siree Raag 47
Me: Truthfully, I am not seeing a ‘meaning’ or definition for soul yet from SGGS ji. Lots of descriptions, but not definitions.
You: ‘Can you also please give your personal take on this?’
Me: From the RAHAO on down to the quoted line, this is what I glean from the English . . . Note that I am giving a personally relevant understanding, paying more attention to the sentiments and thoughts that arise in me. There’s little point in attempting a ‘scholarly analysis’ of the translation and I can’t read Gurmukhi. As you, yourself point out, the English translations are not so trustworthy. An intuitive interpretation is the best I can do.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Surround yourself with devotees of the Beloved and do not let your consciousness stray from humble devotion to that Presence you can perceive. They whose minds are graced by the Guru to adore the True Name know the high value of such a predisposition. Through practice at the highest degree of dedication and devotion one is capable of, one will certainly find fulfilment. The five thieves will be eradicated from within, uncertainty and ignorance will be removed and ones potential in this lifetime will be achieved. There will not be cause to return to this world. Find the Company of the Holy to purify yourself inwardly and outwardly. Upon joining the True Congregation, your entire being will become robust and enlivened, because this is what you were born to do.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You: ‘We also know that the shabad that has the verse of RAHAO in it shows us the central idea/message of the whole shabad.’
Me: I did not know that. Thank you for that very useful tip. I will definitely use that from now on.
You: Does your take compliment that verse?’
Me: If I just took the one line, ‘Your soul, breath of life, mind and body shall blossom forth in lush profusion; this is the true purpose of life.’ I would have concluded that a life of dedicated devotional practice would result is the blossoming and is the purpose of life. I wouldn’t have put such a strong emphasis on the Company of the Holy, yet congregation and community interaction are objectives that I – increasingly – feel must accompany individual spiritual development . . . we’re all in this together. . . If Waheguru wouldn’t forsake a single soul, neither should any one of us.
Here’s a question for you: If you (your soul and conscious awareness) had to return to this world to serve the Will of God and aid the soul-journey of other beings, would you have a genuine desire to do so?
Sat Sri Akal,
t
Findingmyway ji, Tejwant Singh ji, and Narayanjot Kaur ji,
Could you interpret the Gurmukhi in the following sloka, please? The English seems to explain what Light (Joyt) is in relation to soul. Can you refute or do you accept this translation? I don't see the word joyt in the RG.
Awqm dyau pUjIAY ibnu siqgur bUJ n pwie ]
aatham dhaeo poojeeai bin sathigur boojh n paae ||
So worship the Lord, the Light of the soul; without the True Guru, understanding is not obtained.
Guru Amar Daas Ji
Siree Raag
88
http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?SourceID=G&PageNo=88
If this is an accurate translation, it indicates that:
Sat Sri Akal,
t
Could you interpret the Gurmukhi in the following sloka, please? The English seems to explain what Light (Joyt) is in relation to soul. Can you refute or do you accept this translation? I don't see the word joyt in the RG.
Awqm dyau pUjIAY ibnu siqgur bUJ n pwie ]
aatham dhaeo poojeeai bin sathigur boojh n paae ||
So worship the Lord, the Light of the soul; without the True Guru, understanding is not obtained.
Guru Amar Daas Ji
Siree Raag
88
http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?SourceID=G&PageNo=88
If this is an accurate translation, it indicates that:
- The Light is the Lord God
- The Lord God is the Light of a soul
- The presence of the Lord God / Light is known by the understanding possessed by the soul.
Sat Sri Akal,
t
Ik-jivan ji,
My understanding from reading the whole shabad is that Waheguru is the one that shows the soul the light, ie enlightens us. The shabad is not saying that the soul is a light but that the soul gets shown the right way.:idea:
It would be interesting to get BhagatSingh's take on these ideas too.....
My understanding from reading the whole shabad is that Waheguru is the one that shows the soul the light, ie enlightens us. The shabad is not saying that the soul is a light but that the soul gets shown the right way.:idea:
It would be interesting to get BhagatSingh's take on these ideas too.....
Last edited:
This project is also good for developing greater familiarity with SGGS ji too. In the end, I will know what it says explicitly and what it implies. Plus, as I go along, I am learning a little Gurmukhi and noticing that a number of Gurmukhi words are translated into the same English word.
There are 1,000 references to 'soul' in SGGS ji. I have sorted 320 so far. AND, I think I actually just found one that is a definition of what a soul is, as opposed what it does. . .
<TABLE style="MARGIN-LEFT: 50px" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>pMc BU Awqmw hir nwm ris poKY ]</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>pa(n)ch bhoo aathamaa har naam ras pokhai ||</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>The soul, the subtle essence of the five elements, cherishes the Nectar of the Naam, the Name of the Lord.
Maybe Findingmyway ji can re-interpret. What is 'bhoo'? . . . OK, got to get back to work
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
When translating it's not just the meaning of the words that's important but also the grammar. I was told that every addition of an adhikk or sihari etc has a meaning in gurbani but unfortunately I'm not yet clever enough to interpret this properly. Please give page number for shabads as it makes it easier to find them. Above shabad is on p299. To be honest I'm struggling with the translation of this shabad and would appreciate help from someone more learned please..........welcomekaur
Oops. Sorry about not adding the page number. I guess I was a little too excited about finding a line that seems to say 'soul IS. . .'
Here are a few similar slokas including pMc BU or derivative words. Not sure if this will help you get a better feel for the unfamiliar words and terms. Hope so. : )
pMc BU Awqmw vis krih qw qIrQ krih invwsu ]2]
pa(n)ch bhoo aathamaa vas karehi thaa theerathh karehi nivaas ||2||
If your soul overcomes the five elements, then you shall come to have a home at the true place of pilgrimage. ||2||
Guru Amar Daas Ji
Raag Gujri 491
http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?SourceID=G&PageNo=491
gurmuiK pMc BUAwqmw swDsMgiq imil swD suhwxw]
guramukh pa(n)ch bhooaathamaa saadhhasa(n)gath mil saadhh suhaanaa||
Antahkaran, the basis of all five external elements is cultivated and cultured by Gurmukh in the Holy Congregation.
Bhai Gurdaas Ji
Vaars Bhai Gurdaas 7
http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?SourceID=B&PageNo=7
http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=5696
dUK BUK imtY qyro shsw suK pwvih qUM suKmin nwrI ]1] rhwau ]
dhookh bhookh mittai thaero sehasaa sukh paavehi thoo(n) sukhaman naaree ||1|| rehaao ||
Your pain, hunger and doubt shall vanish, and you shall obtain peace, O happy soul-bride. ||1||Pause||
Guru Arjan Dev Ji
Raag Aasaa 377
http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?SourceID=G&PageNo=377
nau Gr dyiK ju kwmin BUlI bsqu AnUp n pweI ]
no ghar dhaekh j kaaman bhoolee basath anoop n paaee ||
Seeing the nine openings of the body, the soul-bride is led astray; she does not obtain that incomparable thing.
Bhagat Kabeer Ji
Raag Gauree 339
http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?SourceID=G&PageNo=339
Here are a few similar slokas including pMc BU or derivative words. Not sure if this will help you get a better feel for the unfamiliar words and terms. Hope so. : )
pMc BU Awqmw vis krih qw qIrQ krih invwsu ]2]
pa(n)ch bhoo aathamaa vas karehi thaa theerathh karehi nivaas ||2||
If your soul overcomes the five elements, then you shall come to have a home at the true place of pilgrimage. ||2||
Guru Amar Daas Ji
Raag Gujri 491
http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?SourceID=G&PageNo=491
gurmuiK pMc BUAwqmw swDsMgiq imil swD suhwxw]
guramukh pa(n)ch bhooaathamaa saadhhasa(n)gath mil saadhh suhaanaa||
Antahkaran, the basis of all five external elements is cultivated and cultured by Gurmukh in the Holy Congregation.
Bhai Gurdaas Ji
Vaars Bhai Gurdaas 7
http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?SourceID=B&PageNo=7
http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=5696
dUK BUK imtY qyro shsw suK pwvih qUM suKmin nwrI ]1] rhwau ]
dhookh bhookh mittai thaero sehasaa sukh paavehi thoo(n) sukhaman naaree ||1|| rehaao ||
Your pain, hunger and doubt shall vanish, and you shall obtain peace, O happy soul-bride. ||1||Pause||
Guru Arjan Dev Ji
Raag Aasaa 377
http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?SourceID=G&PageNo=377
nau Gr dyiK ju kwmin BUlI bsqu AnUp n pweI ]
no ghar dhaekh j kaaman bhoolee basath anoop n paaee ||
Seeing the nine openings of the body, the soul-bride is led astray; she does not obtain that incomparable thing.
Bhagat Kabeer Ji
Raag Gauree 339
http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?SourceID=G&PageNo=339
pMc BU is 5 elements. It's more the grammar that's confusing me and Prof Sahib Singh's translation is not easy to understand
:a100posts:
:a100posts:
jasleen ji
I have attached two documents that you may find helpful on the subject of Gurbani grammar.
The field of "Gurbani linguistics" was spearheaded by Principal Teja Singh of Khalsa College Bombay, and Professor Sahib Singh. Professor's Compilation of the Granth Sahib is attached. A Bibliography of Guru Granth Sahib by Anoop Singh is also attached. This originally came from a panthic.org website but is no longer available there to my knowledge. The bibliography will direct you to some other valuable references, including the work of Teja Singh ji. The 3rd reference I would recommend is a book by Charles Shackle, The Sacred Language of the Sikhs. Charles Shackle has also written scholarly articles on this subject, which you may be able to find on the Google search engine. Yes -- there are some serious Gurmukhi scholars in the West. His work is considered of high merit in the community of Sikh academics.
I have attached two documents that you may find helpful on the subject of Gurbani grammar.
The field of "Gurbani linguistics" was spearheaded by Principal Teja Singh of Khalsa College Bombay, and Professor Sahib Singh. Professor's Compilation of the Granth Sahib is attached. A Bibliography of Guru Granth Sahib by Anoop Singh is also attached. This originally came from a panthic.org website but is no longer available there to my knowledge. The bibliography will direct you to some other valuable references, including the work of Teja Singh ji. The 3rd reference I would recommend is a book by Charles Shackle, The Sacred Language of the Sikhs. Charles Shackle has also written scholarly articles on this subject, which you may be able to find on the Google search engine. Yes -- there are some serious Gurmukhi scholars in the West. His work is considered of high merit in the community of Sikh academics.
📌 For all latest updates, follow the Official Sikh Philosophy Network Whatsapp Channel:
