Why Do Indian Vegetarians Have A Problem With Eggs But Not With Milk?

[Randip Singh]

Let us look at few facts before you arrive at some conclusion.

India is not a rich country.The per capita income of Indians is about 3 Dollar. India might have been ranked as world's 11 the economy in terms of GDP but per capita GDP would be would be dismal. India might have been termed as developing economy but it shall take time before it can be considered as a force to be reckoned with. Geography and history has not been kind enough to it.Lots of resources are wasted on keeping its neighbours in appropriate place.It all costs money at the cost of development.

This comment is irrelevant to the debate because it does not stop people from keeping their own chickens. Many of my relatives do in Punjab.

...and historically in a largely agarian society this is irrelevant. The cost of keeping a cow far out wighs the cost of keeping a chicken yet people keep cows.

India being thickly populated by Hindus has been considered as vegetarian society. There is a cultural heritage to not to consume eggs on account of fact that eggs are considered as 'excereta' of hen as it is thrown out of excretory hole of the same. It is considered as unholy by many. No one can change this mentality. Secondly, eggs cost these days about One Dollar a dozen and price of some cheap pulses is about the same or little higher. Eggs may serve as a single meal of a middle class family while 1 kg of pulse may be enough for four of five servings. The reason is thus twin fold , the sheer economics coupled with cultural heritage of majority of Indians. Things are changing though. However, I find nothing sarcastic though in the proposition stated above.

Actually what do you mean by vegetarian? Lacto vegetarian? Ovo-lacto? India 31% of people are lacto-vegetarians:

http://hindu.com/2006/08/14/stories/2006081403771200.htm

So vegetarians in India are a minority, so how is it a vegetarian society? In anycase this is outside the debate.

Biologically this is an incorrect proposition and shows the gnorance of Indian society. Milk too can be biologically seen as excreta, i.e. liquified flesh in biological terms.

Again economically, it is far cheaper to keep a chicken than a cow, and the nutritional value of one egg compared to the similar pulse is far higher.

A misconception is to be removed in regard to whether milk is a liquefied meat.It is not so. Liquefied milk is a different concept. Liquefied meat is a form of meat.[refer wiKipedia].Milk is different altogether. It is a common knowledge that milk is processed in the udders of cow or mammary glands of the mother. But just because it is produced from blood it does not mean that milk is a blood. A child sucks milk from mother's breast without killing her. The claim that while consuming milk one is consuming blood has no validity either scientific or otherwise.It is a notion that has no scientific basis

No offence but you do not understand basic bioligy of how milk is created. THIS is the very reeason why vegans don't drink milk, but opt for Soya milk. Here is the biological process.

http://www.globalhealingcenter.com/natural-health/dangers-of-cows-milk/

In the UK, even 12 year old children know this. To bad so many kids in India are in denial about this basic fact.

Coming to second point as to why milk is being consumed; It is a source of cheap nourishment even for the lower middle class family who is not bothered about microbes or other living organism that it may contain. It is the way the nature exists. and we respect Nature. Milk is considered Holy and that is why Harmandar sahib, where Sri Guru Granth saheb is to be installed daily is washed and cleaned by diluted milk.

I've had to delete your quotes from Guru Granth Sahib ji because you've quoted one liners and in this respect the meaning is twisted....and we are not talking about Sikhism.

If milk is holy then why is it poured over Shivalingum in India? Does this mean milk represents Semen? Does this mean Semen is holy as well?

There is no scope of further debate unless one wants to enter into for the sake of it.

E & .O.E

Sorry you can't do that here. If you wish to make a point be preparedto be challenged

 

[Taranjeet singh]

"""""<<<>Milk has been considered as holy and it is offered to Gods. Bhagat Namdev ji..." Doodh pee-o Gobinday raa-e. Doodh pee-o Mayro man Patee-a[ang 1163]

Respected Gyani ji,

After going thru. your above post it appears you have quoted Sahib singh almost verbatim. But there are other commentaries available that one should also read to widen the horizon.Kindly refer Faridkotwalaa Teeka pages 3717-3718.

I agree with you that sometimes it is good to consider the metaphors if need be. However, in case plain meaning serves the purpose, in the present context milk being treated as worthy of consumption, one may take the meaning literally when we are not taking 'shabd-Veechar'. Even your comments does not show that milk is not worthy of human consumption or is impure

Yes, there is nothing wrong if God has blessed some one with a silver spoon. It is His choice. Your comments are again out of context and out of place. You also know this very well. I am no one to tell you; I can only make a request that One should have control over that one writes as something may pinch the one to whom it is addressed.

Regarding Bhagat Namdev following is theextract that I have taken from non controversial source:

Namdev showed little interest in the family profession. Even as a child his devotion to Lord Vitthal was extraordinary - his sole occupation was to spend day and night in devotion to Vithoba. His devotion was so sincere that sometimes he would consider Vithoba to be his dearest brother or his play mate. According to a legend, when Namdev was five years old, his mother once gave him some food offerings for Vithoba and asked him to give it to Vithoba in the Pandharpur temple. Namdev took the offerings and placed it before Vithoba's idol in the temple, asking Vithoba to accept the offerings. When he saw that his request was not being met, he told Vithoba that he would kill himself if Vithoba continued to ignore the offerings. Vithoba then appeared before him and ate the offerings in response to the utter devotion of young Namdev.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namdev

2.

One day when Bhagat Namdev Ji's father was absent, Bhagat Namdev Ji took the daily offering of the family to the temple. It consisted of milk, which he had just milked from his cow. He thought that the God would freely partake of the offering on which he had lavished so much care.
The stony idol, however, would not do so. Upon this Bhagat Namdev began to cry, he threw himself down at the God's feet and uttered passionate supplications. In due time the god relented and accepted the boy's offering. He celebrated the event in the following hymn in the Bhairo measure on ang 1163 of Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj.

ਦੂਧ੝ ਕਟੋਰੈ ਗਡਵੈ ਪਾਨੀ ॥ ਕਪਲ ਗਾਇ ਨਾਮੈ ਦ੝ਹਿ ਆਨੀ ॥1॥
dhoodhh kattorai gaddavai paanee || kapal gaae naamai dhuhi aanee ||1||
Naam Dev milked the brown cow, and brought a cup of milk and a jug of water to his family god. ||1||
ਦੂਧ੝ ਪੀਉ ਗੋਬਿੰਦੇ ਰਾਇ ॥
dhoodhh peeo gobi(n)dhae raae ||
"Please drink this milk, O my Sovereign Lord God.
ਦੂਧ੝ ਪੀਉ ਮੇਰੋ ਮਨ੝ ਪਤੀਆਇ ॥
dhoodhh peeo maero man patheeaae ||
Drink this milk and my mind will be happy.
ਨਾਹੀ ਤ ਘਰ ਕੋ ਬਾਪ੝ ਰਿਸਾਇ ॥1॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
naahee th ghar ko baap risaae ||1|| rehaao ||
Otherwise, my father will be angry with me.""||1||Pause||
ਸ੝ੋਇਨ ਕਟੋਰੀ ਅੰਮ੝ਰਿਤ ਭਰੀ ॥
suoein kattoree a(n)mrith bharee ||
Taking the golden cup, Naam Dayv filled it with the ambrosial milk,
ਲੈ ਨਾਮੈ ਹਰਿ ਆਗੈ ਧਰੀ ॥2॥
lai naamai har aagai dhharee ||2||
and placed it before the Lord. ||2||
ਝਕ੝ ਭਗਤ੝ ਮੇਰੇ ਹਿਰਦੇ ਬਸੈ ॥ ਨਾਮੇ ਦੇਖਿ ਨਰਾਇਨ੝ ਹਸੈ ॥3॥
eaek bhagath maerae hiradhae basai || naamae dhaekh naraaein hasai ||3||
The Lord looked upon Naam Dayv and smiled. ""This one devotee abides within my heart.""||3||
ਦੂਧ੝ ਪੀਆਇ ਭਗਤ੝ ਘਰਿ ਗਇਆ ॥
dhoodhh peeaae bhagath ghar gaeiaa ||
The Lord drank the milk, and the devotee returned home.

http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Bhagat_Namdev_Ji_And_The_Offering

In such circumstances , in my humble opinion, individual is left with choices and is not always guided by your advice when the same is not available at the time of authoring post. I wish you were present when I was authoring the post. Since that was not the case I relied on simple translation that fitted in the point that is being debated.

 

[Taranjeet singh]

This comment is irrelevant to the debate because it does not stop people from keeping their own chickens. Many of my relatives do in Punjab....and historically in a largely agarian society this is irrelevant. The cost of keeping a cow far out wighs the cost of keeping a chicken yet people keep cows.
It is the most relevant point of the entire discussion. In fact,the crux.
Incidentally, Your relatives are not present to debate the issue; it is better that you quote something that may prove that my comments are not relevant. For you these may be so as you have to defend your stand
Actually what do you mean by vegetarian? Lacto vegetarian? Ovo-lacto? India 31% of people are lacto-vegetarians:
http://hindu.com/2006/08/14/stories/2006081403771200.htm
So vegetarians in India are a minority, so how is it a vegetarian society? In anycase this is outside the debate.
If it is out of debate why quote or give reference. Kindly be precise and to the point so that some conclusion can be arrived at.
Biologically this is an incorrect proposition and shows the gnorance of Indian society. Milk too can be biologically seen as excreta, i.e. liquified flesh in biological terms.
How?Kindly explain. In that case mother's milk would also be excreta.
Again economically, it is far cheaper to keep a chicken than a cow, and the nutritional value of one egg compared to the similar pulse is far higher.
It may be so if Indians have liking of eggs and they do not consider it as an 'excreta'?
No offence but you do not understand basic bioligy of how milk is created. THIS is the very reeason why vegans don't drink milk, but opt for Soya milk. Here is the biological process.
No offence was meant and there is nothing offensive .It is your perception

I am a vegan I do not take soya milk. I take soya beans [vegetable] a lot and calcium capsules as a supplement. My wife who is a Doctor recommends this and follow this


In the UK, even 12 year old children know this. To bad so many kids in India are in denial about this basic fact.

Any suggestions for Indian kids or Indian parents.?Kindly be kind to provide the same so that I can tell my Hindu Friends. as to how Britsher still feel about Indians. I await the response.

Let us not forget India was under British rule for centuries and prior to this Mugals ruled for quite some time. Indian education system was formulated by Lord Maculy and that was oriented to produce babus. India is not even 70 years old from that angle.It will take some time for education and awareness. [/COLOR]

I've had to delete your quotes from Guru Granth Sahib ji because you've quoted one liners and in this respect the meaning is twisted....and we are not talking about Sikhism.
The quote was given that sikhs, who are also human beings and part of Indian society also believe that Milk is pure and worthy of human consumption even if it contains microbes or lower organisms. They are not sentient. Are they so.?
Please give your valuable opinion.
If milk is holy then why is it poured over Shivalingum in India? Does this mean milk represents Semen? Does this mean Semen is holy as well?

Your question is not clear. Milk is pure that is why it is offered to dieties. What has semen to do with it. Kindly put the things in perspective for better appreciation in regard to Human semen being thrown over Hindu Dieties.
Sorry you can't do that here. If you wish to make a point be preparedto be challenged

Yes, when debate turns out to be an argument where one is not able to see the others point of view it should be the end of it for some, and I am one of them.

Hope I have answered you. In case you are not satisfied please post again in view of that has been posted so that you can be properly attended to your satisfaction. I have not touched part of your comments that were seemingly out of context and were not meant to advance the debate. Also please debate that is useful for all of us and not for individual who has started the thread. You comments like semen being thrown on deities of Hindus seemed arrogant.
I am at liberty to reply to those that are worthy of being attended to. Also kindly be precise.

Kindly note that no line of Gurbani was twisted as claimed in your post. Kindly provide the evidence of twisting so that others members following this debate can also know as to who is twisting things for a very short term advantage that may be ultimately inconsequential.

 

[Randip Singh]

Yes, when debate turns out to be an argument where one is not able to see the others point of view it should be the end of it for some, and I am one of them.

It's not an argument. I have pointed out some scientific fct for you. Cow's milk is filtered blood. Blood is basically flesh in a liquified form.

Hope I have answered you. In case you are not satisfied please post again in view of that has been posted so that you can be properly attended to your satisfaction. I have not touched part of your comments that were seemingly out of context and were not meant to advance the debate. Also please debate that is useful for all of us and not for individual who has started the thread. You comments like semen being thrown on deities of Hindus seemed arrogant.
I am at liberty to reply to those that are worthy of being attended to. Also kindly be precise.

You know the rules here i.e. not to use one liners from Bani. I've warned you several times about this, yet you have ignored it.

On the Hindu point, the majority of Indiia is Hindu, and this is how they use milk. Shivalingum is a phallus and the milk is supposed represent semen. I was in effect demonstarting how ridiculous the debate can get if you start to bring religion into it.

Kindly note that no line of Gurbani was twisted as claimed in your post. Kindly provide the evidence of twisting so that others members following this debate can also know as to who is twisting things for a very short term advantage that may be ultimately inconsequential.

Firstly the debate is about Indians the majority of whom are Hindu.
Secondly the use of bani one liners is strictly monitored on this forum.
Thirdly you have been warned about this before.

 

[Randip Singh]

This comment is irrelevant to the debate because it does not stop people from keeping their own chickens. Many of my relatives do in Punjab....and historically in a largely agarian society this is irrelevant. The cost of keeping a cow far out wighs the cost of keeping a chicken yet people keep cows.
It is the most relevant point of the entire discussion. In fact,the crux.
Incidentally, Your relatives are not present to debate the issue; it is better that you quote something that may prove that my comments are not relevant. For you these may be so as you have to defend your stand

Again irrelevant. Challenge the point. You make one about economics. It has NO validity.

Is it more expensive to keep a cow or a chicken?

Actually what do you mean by vegetarian? Lacto vegetarian? Ovo-lacto? India 31% of people are lacto-vegetarians:
http://hindu.com/2006/08/14/stories/2006081403771200.htm
So vegetarians in India are a minority, so how is it a vegetarian society? In anycase this is outside the debate.
If it is out of debate why quote or give reference. Kindly be precise and to the point so that some conclusion can be arrived at.

I've given a refrence? Can you not acces links?

http://hindu.com/2006/08/14/stories/2006081403771200.htm

:singhsippingcoffee:

Biologically this is an incorrect proposition and shows the gnorance of Indian society. Milk too can be biologically seen as excreta, i.e. liquified flesh in biological terms.
How?Kindly explain. In that case mother's milk would also be excreta.

Sorry misread excreta as excreted. Milk, eggs, faeces are all excrereted. Eggs are not faeces.

Again economically, it is far cheaper to keep a chicken than a cow, and the nutritional value of one egg compared to the similar pulse is far higher.
It may be so if Indians have liking of eggs and they do not consider it as an 'excreta'?

Is it cheaper to keep a chicken or a cow? Again misread as excreted.

No offence but you do not understand basic bioligy of how milk is created. THIS is the very reeason why vegans don't drink milk, but opt for Soya milk. Here is the biological process.
No offence was meant and there is nothing offensive .It is your perception

If you don't understand the basic biology of how milk is made in the biological process admit it.

http://www.extension.org/mediawiki/files/f/f1/How_Cows_Make_Milk.pdf

I am a vegan I do not take soya milk. I take soya beans [vegetable] a lot and calcium capsules as a supplement. My wife who is a Doctor recommends this and follow this

def Vegan:

http://vegetarian.about.com/od/glossary/g/Vegan.htm

Veganism is a type of vegetarian diet that excludes meat, eggs, dairy products and all other animal-derived ingredients. Many vegans also do not eat foods that are processed using animal products, such as refined white sugar and some wines. Most vegans also avoid the use of all products tested on animals, as well as animal-derived non-food products, such as leather, fur and wool.
Vegan refers to either a person who follows this way of eating, or to the diet itself.

If you take milk you cannot be a vegan. You are a lacto-vegetarian.

In the UK, even 12 year old children know this. To bad so many kids in India are in denial about this basic fact.

Any suggestions for Indian kids or Indian parents.?Kindly be kind to provide the same so that I can tell my Hindu Friends. as to how Britsher still feel about Indians. I await the response.

Here is a graphic reresentation of how milk is made in a cow. Should be simple enough to understand:


http://www.extension.org/mediawiki/files/f/f1/How_Cows_Make_Milk.pdf

Let us not forget India was under British rule for centuries and prior to this Mugals ruled for quite some time. Indian education system was formulated by Lord Maculy and that was oriented to produce babus. India is not even 70 years old from that angle.It will take some time for education and awareness.

Look Taranjeet, my point was a bit tonge and cheek. Every India 12 year old knows the process of how milk is made.......but what I am saying is Indian lacto-vegetarians seem to be in denial.

I've had to delete your quotes from Guru Granth Sahib ji because you've quoted one liners and in this respect the meaning is twisted....and we are not talking about Sikhism.
The quote was given that sikhs, who are also human beings and part of Indian society also believe that Milk is pure and worthy of human consumption even if it contains microbes or lower organisms. They are not sentient. Are they so.?
Please give your valuable opinion.

No those quotes do not mean that and I'm not debating that. They are metaphors.

in Vaaran Bhai Gurdas he praises goat meat...will you see that as holy?

Vaar 23 Pauri 13 of 21 of Vaaran Bhai Gurdas". SearchGurbani. 2007

The proud elephant is inedible and none eats the mighty lion.
Goat is humble and hence it is respected everywhere.
On occasions of death, joy, marriage, yajna, etc only its meat is accepted.
Among the householders its meat is acknowledged as sacred and with its gut stringed instruments are made.
From its leather the shoes are made to be used by the saints merged in their meditation upon the Lord.
Drums are mounted by its skin and then in the holy congregation the delight-giving kirtan, eulogy of the Lord, is sung.
In fact, going to the holy congregation is the same as going to the shelter of the true Guru.
​

If milk is holy then why is it poured over Shivalingum in India? Does this mean milk represents Semen? Does this mean Semen is holy as well?

Your question is not clear. Milk is pure that is why it is offered to dieties. What has semen to do with it. Kindly put the things in perspective for better appreciation in regard to Human semen being thrown over Hindu Dieties.

It's common in many faiths and again its a bit tongue and cheek. Milk is supposed to represent semen on the shivalingum. this practice has been spread by the ignorant to other dieties. they don't understand the origin of it.

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/cut/message/1416

 

[Randip Singh]

ਦੂਧ੝ ਕਟੋਰੈ ਗਡਵੈ ਪਾਨੀ ॥ ਕਪਲ ਗਾਇ ਨਾਮੈ ਦ੝ਹਿ ਆਨੀ ॥1॥
dhoodhh kattorai gaddavai paanee || kapal gaae naamai dhuhi aanee ||1||
Naam Dev milked the brown cow, and brought a cup of milk and a jug of water to his family god. ||1||
ਦੂਧ੝ ਪੀਉ ਗੋਬਿੰਦੇ ਰਾਇ ॥
dhoodhh peeo gobi(n)dhae raae ||
"Please drink this milk, O my Sovereign Lord God.
ਦੂਧ੝ ਪੀਉ ਮੇਰੋ ਮਨ੝ ਪਤੀਆਇ ॥
dhoodhh peeo maero man patheeaae ||
Drink this milk and my mind will be happy.
ਨਾਹੀ ਤ ਘਰ ਕੋ ਬਾਪ੝ ਰਿਸਾਇ ॥1॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
naahee th ghar ko baap risaae ||1|| rehaao ||
Otherwise, my father will be angry with me.""||1||Pause||
ਸ੝ੋਇਨ ਕਟੋਰੀ ਅੰਮ੝ਰਿਤ ਭਰੀ ॥
suoein kattoree a(n)mrith bharee ||
Taking the golden cup, Naam Dayv filled it with the ambrosial milk,
ਲੈ ਨਾਮੈ ਹਰਿ ਆਗੈ ਧਰੀ ॥2॥
lai naamai har aagai dhharee ||2||
and placed it before the Lord. ||2||
ਝਕ੝ ਭਗਤ੝ ਮੇਰੇ ਹਿਰਦੇ ਬਸੈ ॥ ਨਾਮੇ ਦੇਖਿ ਨਰਾਇਨ੝ ਹਸੈ ॥3॥
eaek bhagath maerae hiradhae basai || naamae dhaekh naraaein hasai ||3||
The Lord looked upon Naam Dayv and smiled. ""This one devotee abides within my heart.""||3||
ਦੂਧ੝ ਪੀਆਇ ਭਗਤ੝ ਘਰਿ ਗਇਆ ॥
dhoodhh peeaae bhagath ghar gaeiaa ||
The Lord drank the milk, and the devotee returned home.

Here is the entire shabad page 1163 Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji:

<table cellspacing="5"><tbody><tr></tr><tr><td> ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
ੴ सतिगुर प्रसादि ॥
Ik▫oaʼnkār saṯgur parsāḏ.
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਰੇ ਜਿਹਬਾ ਕਰਉ ਸਤ ਖੰਡ ॥
रे जिहबा करउ सत खंड ॥
Re jihbā kara▫o saṯ kẖand.
O my tongue, I will cut you into a hundred pieces,
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਜਾਮਿ ਨ ਉਚਰਸਿ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ॥੧॥
जामि न उचरसि स्री गोबिंद ॥१॥
Jām na ucẖras sarī gobinḏ. ||1||
if you do not chant the Name of the Lord. ||1||
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਰੰਗੀ ਲੇ ਜਿਹਬਾ ਹਰਿ ਕੈ ਨਾਇ ॥
रंगी ले जिहबा हरि कै नाइ ॥
Rangī le jihbā har kai nā▫e.
O my tongue, be imbued with the Lord's Name.
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਸੁਰੰਗ ਰੰਗੀਲੇ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਧਿਆਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
सुरंग रंगीले हरि हरि धिआइ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Surang rangīle har har ḏẖi▫ā▫e. ||1|| rahā▫o.
Meditate on the Name of the Lord, Har, Har, and imbue yourself with this most excellent color. ||1||Pause||
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਮਿਥਿਆ ਜਿਹਬਾ ਅਵਰੇਂ ਕਾਮ ॥
मिथिआ जिहबा अवरें काम ॥
Mithi▫ā jihbā avreʼn kām.
O my tongue, other occupations are false.
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਨਿਰਬਾਣ ਪਦੁ ਇਕੁ ਹਰਿ ਕੋ ਨਾਮੁ ॥੨॥
निरबाण पदु इकु हरि को नामु ॥२॥
Nirbāṇ paḏ ik har ko nām. ||2||
The state of Nirvaanaa comes only through the Lord's Name. ||2||
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਅਸੰਖ ਕੋਟਿ ਅਨ ਪੂਜਾ ਕਰੀ ॥
असंख कोटि अन पूजा करी ॥
Asaʼnkẖ kot an pūjā karī.
The performance of countless millions of other devotions
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਏਕ ਨ ਪੂਜਸਿ ਨਾਮੈ ਹਰੀ ॥੩॥
एक न पूजसि नामै हरी ॥३॥
Ėk na pūjas nāmai harī. ||3||
is not equal to even one devotion to the Name of the Lord. ||3||
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਪ੍ਰਣਵੈ ਨਾਮਦੇਉ ਇਹੁ ਕਰਣਾ ॥
प्रणवै नामदेउ इहु करणा ॥
Paraṇvai nāmḏe▫o ih karṇā.
Prays Naam Dayv, this is my occupation.
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਅਨੰਤ ਰੂਪ ਤੇਰੇ ਨਾਰਾਇਣਾ ॥੪॥੧॥
अनंत रूप तेरे नाराइणा ॥४॥१॥
Ananṯ rūp ṯere nārā▫iṇā. ||4||1||
O Lord, Your Forms are endless. ||4||1||
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਪਰ ਧਨ ਪਰ ਦਾਰਾ ਪਰਹਰੀ ॥
पर धन पर दारा परहरी ॥
Par ḏẖan par ḏārā parharī.
One who stays away from others' wealth and others' spouses-
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਤਾ ਕੈ ਨਿਕਟਿ ਬਸੈ ਨਰਹਰੀ ॥੧॥
ता कै निकटि बसै नरहरी ॥१॥
Ŧā kai nikat basai narharī. ||1||
the Lord abides near that person. ||1||
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਜੋ ਨ ਭਜੰਤੇ ਨਾਰਾਇਣਾ ॥
जो न भजंते नाराइणा ॥
Jo na bẖajanṯe nārā▫iṇā.
Those who do not meditate and vibrate on the Lord-
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਤਿਨ ਕਾ ਮੈ ਨ ਕਰਉ ਦਰਸਨਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
तिन का मै न करउ दरसना ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Ŧin kā mai na kara▫o ḏarsanā. ||1|| rahā▫o.
I do not even want to see them. ||1||Pause||
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਜਿਨ ਕੈ ਭੀਤਰਿ ਹੈ ਅੰਤਰਾ ॥
जिन कै भीतरि है अंतरा ॥
Jin kai bẖīṯar hai anṯrā.
Those whose inner beings are not in harmony with the Lord,
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਜੈਸੇ ਪਸੁ ਤੈਸੇ ਓਇ ਨਰਾ ॥੨॥
जैसे पसु तैसे ओइ नरा ॥२॥
Jaise pas ṯaise o▫e narā. ||2||
are nothing more than beasts. ||2||
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਪ੍ਰਣਵਤਿ ਨਾਮਦੇਉ ਨਾਕਹਿ ਬਿਨਾ ॥
प्रणवति नामदेउ नाकहि बिना ॥
Paraṇvaṯ nāmḏe▫o nākėh binā.
Prays Naam Dayv, a man without a nose
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਨਾ ਸੋਹੈ ਬਤੀਸ ਲਖਨਾ ॥੩॥੨॥
ना सोहै बतीस लखना ॥३॥२॥
Nā sohai baṯīs lakẖnā. ||3||2||
does not look handsome, even if he has the thirty-two beauty marks. ||3||2||
</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#BABAC7"><td> ਦੂਧੁ ਕਟੋਰੈ ਗਡਵੈ ਪਾਨੀ ॥
दूधु कटोरै गडवै पानी ॥
Ḏūḏẖ katorai gadvai pānī.
A cup of milk and a jug of water is brought to family god,
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਕਪਲ ਗਾਇ ਨਾਮੈ ਦੁਹਿ ਆਨੀ ॥੧॥
कपल गाइ नामै दुहि आनी ॥१॥
Kapal gā▫e nāmai ḏuhi ānī. ||1||
by Naam Dayv, after milking the brown cow. ||1||
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਦੂਧੁ ਪੀਉ ਗੋਬਿੰਦੇ ਰਾਇ ॥
दूधु पीउ गोबिंदे राइ ॥
Ḏūḏẖ pī▫o gobinḏe rā▫e.
Please drink this milk, O my Sovereign Lord God.
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਦੂਧੁ ਪੀਉ ਮੇਰੋ ਮਨੁ ਪਤੀਆਇ ॥
दूधु पीउ मेरो मनु पतीआइ ॥
Ḏūḏẖ pī▫o mero man paṯī▫ā▫e.
Drink this milk and my mind will be happy.
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਨਾਹੀ ਤ ਘਰ ਕੋ ਬਾਪੁ ਰਿਸਾਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
नाही त घर को बापु रिसाइ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Nāhī ṯa gẖar ko bāp risā▫e. ||1|| rahā▫o.
Otherwise, my father will be angry with me."||1||Pause||
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਸਇਨ ਕਟੋਰੀ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਭਰੀ ॥
सोइन कटोरी अम्रित भरी ॥
So▫in katorī amriṯ bẖarī.
Taking the golden cup, Naam Dayv filled it with the ambrosial milk,
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਲੈ ਨਾਮੈ ਹਰਿ ਆਗੈ ਧਰੀ ॥੨॥
लै नामै हरि आगै धरी ॥२॥
Lai nāmai har āgai ḏẖarī. ||2||
and placed it before the Lord. ||2||
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਏਕੁ ਭਗਤੁ ਮੇਰੇ ਹਿਰਦੇ ਬਸੈ ॥
एकु भगतु मेरे हिरदे बसै ॥
Ėk bẖagaṯ mere hirḏe basai.
This one devotee abides within my heart,
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਨਾਮੇ ਦੇਖਿ ਨਰਾਇਨੁ ਹਸੈ ॥੩॥
नामे देखि नराइनु हसै ॥३॥
Nāme ḏekẖ narā▫in hasai. ||3||
the Lord looked upon Naam Dayv and smiled. ||3||
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਦੂਧੁ ਪੀਆਇ ਭਗਤੁ ਘਰਿ ਗਇਆ ॥
दूधु पीआइ भगतु घरि गइआ ॥
Ḏūḏẖ pī▫ā▫e bẖagaṯ gẖar ga▫i▫ā.
The Lord drank the milk, and the devotee returned home.
</td></tr></tbody></table>
Anyone who reads can see that this shabad is a metaphor. The milk is a metaphor for doing God's will, and doing service.

When Naam Dev Says:
<table cellspacing="5"><tbody><tr></tr><tr><td> ਜੋ ਨ ਭਜੰਤੇ ਨਾਰਾਇਣਾ ॥
जो न भजंते नाराइणा ॥
Jo na bẖajanṯe nārā▫iṇā.
Those who do not meditate and vibrate on the Lord-
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਤਿਨ ਕਾ ਮੈ ਨ ਕਰਉ ਦਰਸਨਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
तिन का मै न करउ दरसना ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Ŧin kā mai na kara▫o ḏarsanā. ||1|| rahā▫o.
I do not even want to see them. ||1||Pause||
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਜਿਨ ਕੈ ਭੀਤਰਿ ਹੈ ਅੰਤਰਾ ॥
जिन कै भीतरि है अंतरा ॥
Jin kai bẖīṯar hai anṯrā.
Those whose inner beings are not in harmony with the Lord,
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਜੈਸੇ ਪਸੁ ਤੈਸੇ ਓਇ ਨਰਾ ॥੨॥
जैसे पसु तैसे ओइ नरा ॥२॥
Jaise pas ṯaise o▫e narā. ||2||
are nothing more than beasts. ||2||
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਪ੍ਰਣਵਤਿ ਨਾਮਦੇਉ ਨਾਕਹਿ ਬਿਨਾ ॥
प्रणवति नामदेउ नाकहि बिना ॥
Paraṇvaṯ nāmḏe▫o nākėh binā.
Prays Naam Dayv, a man without a nose
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਨਾ ਸੋਹੈ ਬਤੀਸ ਲਖਨਾ ॥੩॥੨॥
ना सोहै बतीस लखना ॥३॥२॥
Nā sohai baṯīs lakẖnā. ||3||2||
does not look handsome, even if he has the thirty-two beauty marks. ||3||2|
</td></tr></tbody></table><table cellspacing="5"><tbody><tr></tr><tr><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>
</td></tr></tbody></table>He is saying, if you are not doing God will then it doesn't matter how you have hide it, it will still be seen for what it is.

THe MILK is a metaphor. Taranjeet my young frind, the purpose of this site is to study Sikh philosophy i.e. to see deep meanings of shabads and metaphors that the ignorant man cannot see. Please try and understand the metaphors. 3 people (including me can see the metaphors. Surely an intelligent man like you can? :singhsippingcoffee:

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Depending on the FARIDKOTEE TEEKA is like the catholic Church defending the Bible ( Earth is center of the UNIVERSE..the Sun revolves around the earth, the earth is Flat etc etc) against the likes of Galileo Galilee !!

Prof Sahib Singh is the Galilio Galillee that proved the Faridkotee teeka writers wrong becasue they WEAR BHAGWA SPECTACLES to look at GURBANI...they see Everything as ORANGE..everything has its base on vedant..purans etc and GURBANI/SGGS as a mere Translation of Vedas !! Faridkotees take every thing as LITERAL...and have absolutley no understanding of Gurbani METAPHORS.

I have an Original 4 copy edition:blueturban::happysingh::redturban::singhsippingcoffee: of the faridkotee steek and studied it very studiously under my late dad...so i know it very well...

 

[Kamala]

The cow is HOLY in India, most people in India buy the milk from people who take the milk out by hand, and NOT machines, meaning the cow is NOT in pain, lekhin jaab murgi andaa banata hai usko BOHOT ZYADA dhok ahti hai, I am vegan in Canada because the milk is not milked by hand, and I don't expect to make a difference if I stop, I just do this to proove I am not a part.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

The cow is HOLY in India, most people in India buy the milk from people who take the milk out by hand, and NOT machines, meaning the cow is NOT in pain, lekhin jaab murgi andaa banata hai usko BOHOT ZYADA dhok ahti hai, I am vegan in Canada because the milk is not milked by hand, and I don't expect to make a difference if I stop, I just do this to proove I am not a part.

I agree...

http://www.upc-online.org/chickens/chickensbro.html

 

[Kamala]

Thank you for that link, this is exactly why I am vegan.

 

[Luckysingh]

I'm a vegan most of the time, except meal times!!!!:singhsippingcoffee::happysingh::happysingh::blueturban::blueturban::singhsippingcoffee:

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

in SIKHISM/GURMATT WE ARE TAUGHT TO fight THE torture..the tyranny..the injustices..
we DONT RETREAT/HIDE BEHIND something....or close our eyes...

Hindu sadhus felt that family life hindered their spiritual progress..so they UP AND AWAY..to the Jungles forests high mountain caves...GURU NANAK REJECTED this approach as COWARDLY...He declared a SIKH MUST Marry, be a Householder..be responsible to family society and samaaj pay taxes, build roads, pay for development..educate and be educated..etc etc etc..BE ACTIVELY INVOLVED..instead of shutting down and disappearing into the jungles...

Guur nanak Saw how the FOREIGN HORDES invaded India again and again..looting, burning, raping pillaging..How babar the Mughal came with his Paap ki janjh to loot and plunder...Guru Nanank Ji..STOOD TALL nad was COUNTED...His SIKHS FOUGHT the tyranny, the terror, the injustices...at great cost to their persons...and persevered until success..

IF a SIKH sees a COW being mistreated..its NOT the Gurmatt WAY to.."STOP DRINKING MILK"....its to STOP THE MISTREATMENT...educate the public...make awareness public...

The LINK i provided is to EDUCATE...EMPOWER...and EXPOSE..the Tyranny, the TERROR, the INJUSTICES...being inflicted on our poor friends who cant defend themselves..the SIKH DEFENDS THEM....FIGHTS FOR THEM....BUT not by saying.."OH OK..I will stop eating chicken...beef..pork...horsemeat..dogmeat..frogs..fish..etc etc..OR if he finds a farmer spraying excessive PESTICIDES on Daal..he says..OH I will STOP EATING DAAL...I wont eat HONEY because the farmers dont treat bees well..etc etc...

BEING VEGAN is the COWARDS WAY OUT..the WAY the SADHUS followed in Guru Times when babar attacked....THIS IS NOT the GURUS WAY....

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

ALMOST all Indian States have Laws banning COW SLAUGHTER....yet almost 39,000 cows were ritually slaughtered on the streets and public roads of Kerala State on a religious Festival in November 2011....isnt it the DUTY of Kerala Indians to STAND UP for the Implementation of this Law ?? why not ?? Simple answer is most Indians follow the SADHU WAY..not the GURMATT WAY the Gurus taught. Following link is just for info purposes..i DONT agree with everything the author says/writes...

http://k{censored}vakindia.blogspot.com/

 

[Randip Singh]

The cow is HOLY in India, most people in India buy the milk from people who take the milk out by hand, and NOT machines, meaning the cow is NOT in pain, lekhin jaab murgi andaa banata hai usko BOHOT ZYADA dhok ahti hai, I am vegan in Canada because the milk is not milked by hand, and I don't expect to make a difference if I stop, I just do this to proove I am not a part.

I don't understand this point at all.

-The milk a cow gives is for a calf not for human consumption, eyt we take the calf away so that we can have milk. Is that not painful for the calf?

-How is a chicken laying an egg (which is part of it's NATURAL) cycle painful?

http://www.wisegeek.com/how-exactly-do-chickens-lay-eggs.htm

If you are concerned with how they are treated then I suggest buy organic or free range. Same with cow's.

 

[Randip Singh]

BEING VEGAN is the COWARDS WAY OUT..the WAY the SADHUS followed in Guru Times when babar attacked....THIS IS NOT the GURUS WAY....

Exactly. My way of dealing with this is buying food from organic sources where I know plants and animals have been treated well.

back to the debate though, I still cannot see logically why Indian Vegetarians drink milk, yet won't eat eggs.

 

[Kanwaljit.Singh]

I think at this point of time, most of the people have habits and not philosophies. They do something their parents have been doing all their life, and they might change their habits to benefit themselves. We have so many different examples that we don't know what is the rule and what is the exception.

 

[Kamala]

in SIKHISM/GURMATT WE ARE TAUGHT TO fight THE torture..the tyranny..the injustices..
we DONT RETREAT/HIDE BEHIND something....or close our eyes...

Hindu sadhus felt that family life hindered their spiritual progress..so they UP AND AWAY..to the Jungles forests high mountain caves...GURU NANAK REJECTED this approach as COWARDLY...He declared a SIKH MUST Marry, be a Householder..be responsible to family society and samaaj pay taxes, build roads, pay for development..educate and be educated..etc etc etc..BE ACTIVELY INVOLVED..instead of shutting down and disappearing into the jungles...

Guru nanak Saw how the FOREIGN HORDES invaded India again and again..looting, burning, raping pillaging..How babar the Mughal came with his Paap ki janjh to loot and plunder...Guru Nanank Ji..STOOD TALL nad was COUNTED...His SIKHS FOUGHT the tyranny, the terror, the injustices...at great cost to their persons...and persevered until success..

IF a SIKH sees a COW being mistreated..its NOT the Gurmatt WAY to.."STOP DRINKING MILK"....its to STOP THE MISTREATMENT...educate the public...make awareness public...

The LINK i provided is to EDUCATE...EMPOWER...and EXPOSE..the Tyranny, the TERROR, the INJUSTICES...being inflicted on our poor friends who cant defend themselves..the SIKH DEFENDS THEM....FIGHTS FOR THEM....BUT not by saying.."OH OK..I will stop eating chicken...beef..pork...horsemeat..dogmeat..frogs..fish..etc etc..OR if he finds a farmer spraying excessive PESTICIDES on Daal..he says..OH I will STOP EATING DAAL...I wont eat HONEY because the farmers dont treat bees well..etc etc...

BEING VEGAN is the COWARDS WAY OUT..the WAY the SADHUS followed in Guru Times when babar attacked....THIS IS NOT the GURUS WAY....

I don't think you understand what I am trying to say; I would gladly drink milk in India where we have our own cow and know it is not mistreated, but what I am trying to say is I wont take it from big companies where you don't know what is really going on and so I don't support it.

ALMOST all Indian States have Laws banning COW SLAUGHTER....yet almost 39,000 cows were ritually slaughtered

Almost, haha, almost, you said almost, what if the states that do not ban it are the ones that slaughter them? I don't understand what you are surprised about, if you know it is not banned in some areas.

I don't understand this point at all.

-The milk a cow gives is for a calf not for human consumption, eyt we take the calf away so that we can have milk. Is that not painful for the calf?

-How is a chicken laying an egg (which is part of it's NATURAL) cycle painful?

http://www.wisegeek.com/how-exactly-do-chickens-lay-eggs.htm

If you are concerned with how they are treated then I suggest buy organic or free range. Same with cow's.

1. I don't remember me taking the calf away from the mother.
2. When 5 andas comes out of your butt and it is almost as big as your body please do tell me how that feels

I can almost gurantee that you didn't even read the site that Gyani Jarnail ji posted, LOL!

 

[Ishna]

This is what happens to dairy calves in Australia: http://kb.rspca.org.au/What-happens-to-bobby-calves_87.html

Randip Singh ji:
What about the discarded male chicks in the egg industry? You have to breed chickens to get chickens to lay eggs but per hukam some chicks hatch male and some female - the males are not required by the industry and subsequently destroyed. Organic or not.

 

[Kanwaljit.Singh]

Life is not good for the chickens. Their beaks are cut down when they are kept close together in the cages. So that they don't poke each other to death.

 

[Ishna]

Or eat each other - chickens do that frequently.

But even if the chickens are treated well - free range, organic fed, etcetc the male chicks are still discarded like junk mail (or is that junk male...)