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- Mar 26, 2006
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Islam Why Not Halal Meat?
- Thread starter Lucy Ahmed
- Start date
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Thanks for sharing that but this issue has been ruled on by the Akal Takht back in the 80's and only Kuttha meat is forbidden for Sikhs.
My comment is that blog is flawed when coming to Sikh philosophy and I would recommend reading the following too:
http://www.sikhism.us/essays-on-sikh...ver-flesh.html (Fools Who Wrangle Over Flesh)
- Professor Gurbax Singh Dhillon - Meat Eating and Rehat Maryada
- YouTube - Hazur sahib jhatka for tilak part1
- The Sikhism Home Page
- The Sikhism Home Page
- The Sikhism Home Page
- The Sikhism Home Page
- The Sikhism Home Page
- FAQs About Sikhs | The Sikh Next Door | Education Curriculum About Sikhs and Sikh Religion
- Rehat Maryada | Sikhism - Sikh Religion
- Fools who wrangle over flesh | PopularSikh
- http://www.globalsikhstudies.net/pdf..._tradition.pdf
Isn't it strange that the Tenth Nanak said that an animal has to be killed in a certain way to be consumed and for vegetarian food its just eat.
because the animal generally available had to be killed in the muslim way ONLY. ONLY muslims could keep KNIVES..just to make sure.
And "vegetables/daals/sabzees/fish/crabs/sea food/etc etc...is already dead in the one and only natural way....so no body can do anything about it....THUS even the MUSLIMS ( who have a thousand and one laws on food ) are FORCED to accept them on a AS IS BASIS !! STILL..many do find "ways and means"...such as.."EH Karrahii wich daal nahin dharnee..is wich sooree da mass baniya see"... THIS POT cannot be used for cooking DAAL..as it Earlier....was used to cook PORK !!..so DAAL also comes under Hallal rules by hook or by crook !!! So now the POT is also "contaminated" and un-hallal *Haram !! There are many SIKH PURISTS as well...they wont allow GURDWARA BHANDEH to be used to cook "chickens"...why ?? Bhandeh bhitteh jannegeh ji !! So among SIKHS too the inanimate object like a POT can be "impure"..bhittiah hoyah !!! we are no better !! I also heard among certian "Brahminised Sikhs"..a non-amrtidharee ( even amritdharee of a different jatha) can make the DEG impure for Darbar sahib by just touching the bhnaddah.:happy:
And "vegetables/daals/sabzees/fish/crabs/sea food/etc etc...is already dead in the one and only natural way....so no body can do anything about it....THUS even the MUSLIMS ( who have a thousand and one laws on food ) are FORCED to accept them on a AS IS BASIS !! STILL..many do find "ways and means"...such as.."EH Karrahii wich daal nahin dharnee..is wich sooree da mass baniya see"... THIS POT cannot be used for cooking DAAL..as it Earlier....was used to cook PORK !!..so DAAL also comes under Hallal rules by hook or by crook !!! So now the POT is also "contaminated" and un-hallal *Haram !! There are many SIKH PURISTS as well...they wont allow GURDWARA BHANDEH to be used to cook "chickens"...why ?? Bhandeh bhitteh jannegeh ji !! So among SIKHS too the inanimate object like a POT can be "impure"..bhittiah hoyah !!! we are no better !! I also heard among certian "Brahminised Sikhs"..a non-amrtidharee ( even amritdharee of a different jatha) can make the DEG impure for Darbar sahib by just touching the bhnaddah.:happy:
SSA ji,
According to my point of view every kind of meat (not only halal) is prohibited. Because our foundation is Daya not cruelty. Thats why Guru Gobind Singh ji named the first of "Panj Pyare" Bhai Daya Singh. Then how can sikhism encourage us to eat meat by killing animals. Some argue over it and I have seen many online forms where it is clearly mentioned that meat is allowed to sikhs.
I can not understand how can one recite Gurbani by eating eat. Or it may be a fact that who eats meat can not recite gurbani because their soul will not allow to recite "Dhur ki Baani/ Gur baani". If soul of a sikh allow them to go to Gurudwara ( in front of guru Granth sahib ji), or to recite gurbani from Gutka sahib after eating meat (by leaving first foundation of sikhi) , they can surely allowed to eat meat. I have many friends who eat meat but can not go to Gurudwara because their concise is not allowing them.
And about the comment that their were gurus before Guru nanak dev ji.
All of us know that God is one and if Bani tells us that he was true before, now and forever it also tells us that " ajooni saib Bh ang".
In short, every relgion is good but Sikhism is the latest religion and Khalas "pure". We do not have fake retuels, we have purity and daya ( not eating ant meat), and can easily meet God ( can open dassam dwar by reciting Vaheguru jaap) through baani in family life ( no need to leave family and do Tapp).
Bhul chuk maaf.
Regards,
Har
According to my point of view every kind of meat (not only halal) is prohibited. Because our foundation is Daya not cruelty. Thats why Guru Gobind Singh ji named the first of "Panj Pyare" Bhai Daya Singh. Then how can sikhism encourage us to eat meat by killing animals. Some argue over it and I have seen many online forms where it is clearly mentioned that meat is allowed to sikhs.
I can not understand how can one recite Gurbani by eating eat. Or it may be a fact that who eats meat can not recite gurbani because their soul will not allow to recite "Dhur ki Baani/ Gur baani". If soul of a sikh allow them to go to Gurudwara ( in front of guru Granth sahib ji), or to recite gurbani from Gutka sahib after eating meat (by leaving first foundation of sikhi) , they can surely allowed to eat meat. I have many friends who eat meat but can not go to Gurudwara because their concise is not allowing them.
And about the comment that their were gurus before Guru nanak dev ji.
All of us know that God is one and if Bani tells us that he was true before, now and forever it also tells us that " ajooni saib Bh ang".
In short, every relgion is good but Sikhism is the latest religion and Khalas "pure". We do not have fake retuels, we have purity and daya ( not eating ant meat), and can easily meet God ( can open dassam dwar by reciting Vaheguru jaap) through baani in family life ( no need to leave family and do Tapp).
Bhul chuk maaf.
Regards,
Har
WRONG.
That is your view and a Vashnavite view. Not the Sikh view. Read
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/8828-fools-who-wrangle-over-flesh.html
Many do and many can. It is not for you to dictate how where and when Bani is read.
Sadana was a butcher yet his Bani is included in the Guru Granth Sahib ji. Maybe that should be excluded according to your view.
Your point is?
Pure but not in the Brahmanical sense as you imply here:
Page 1289 Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji
mehlaa 1.
maas maas kar moorakh jhagrhay gi-aan Dhi-aan nahee jaanai.
ka-un maas ka-un saag kahaavai kis meh paap samaanay.
gaiNdaa maar hom jag kee-ay dayviti-aa kee baanay.
maas chhod bais nak pakrheh raatee maanas khaanay.
farh kar lokaaN no dikhlaavahi gi-aan Dhi-aan nahee soojhai.
naanak anDhay si-o ki-aa kahee-ai kahai na kahi-aa boojhai.
anDhaa so-ay je anDh kamaavai tis ridai se lochan naahee.
maat pitaa kee rakat nipannay machhee maas na khaaNhee.
First Mehl:
The fools argue about flesh and meat, but they know nothing about meditation and spiritual wisdom.
What is called meat, and what is called green vegetables? What leads to sin?
It was the habit of the gods to kill the rhinoceros, and make a feast of the burnt offering.
Those who renounce meat, and hold their noses when sitting near it, devour men at night.
They practice hypocrisy, and make a show before other people, but they do not understand anything about meditation or spiritual wisdom.
O Nanak, what can be said to the blind people? They cannot answer, or even understand what is said.
They alone are blind, who act blindly. They have no eyes in their hearts.
They are produced from the blood of their mothers and fathers, but they do not eat fish or meat.
Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji
Any further comment on the Pro's and Con's of meat eating should be confined to the above thread. They will be deleted from any other thread.
Back to debate
WHY JHATKA MEAT?
What is Jhatka Meat and Why?
Jhatka meat is meat in which the animal has been killed quickly without suffering or religious ritual.
We must give the rationale behind prescribing jhatka meat as the approved food for the Sikhs. According to the ancient Aryan Hindu tradition, only such meat as is obtained from an animal which is killed with one stroke of the weapon causing instantaneous death is fit for human consumption. However, with the coming of Islam into India and the Muslim political hegemony, it became a state policy not to permit slaughter of animals for food, in any other manner, except as laid down in the Quran - the kosher meat prepared by slowly severing the main blood artery of the throat of the animal while reciting verses from the Quran. It is done to make slaughter a sacrifice to God and to expiate the sins of the slaughter. Guru Gobind Singh took a rather serious view of this aspect of the whole matter. He, therefore, while permitting flesh to be taken as food repudiated the whole theory of this expiatory sacrifice and the right of ruling Muslims to impose iton the non-Muslims. Accordingly, he made jhatka meat obligatory for those Sikhs who may be interested in taking meat as a part of their food.
Sikhism, A Complete Introduction, Dr. H.S.Singha & Satwant Kaur, Hemkunt Press
And one semitic practice clearly rejected in the Sikh code of conduct is eating flesh of an animal cooked in ritualistic manner; this would mean kosher and halal meat. The reason again does not lie in religious tenet but in the view that killing an animal with a prayer is not going to enoble the flesh. No ritual, whoever conducts it, is going to do any good either to the animal or to the diner. Let man do what he must to assuage his hunger. If what he gets, he puts to good use and shares with the needy, then it is well used and well spent, otherwise not.
Sikhs and Sikhism, Dr. I.J.Singh, Manohar Publishers.
WHY JHATKA MEAT?
What is Jhatka Meat and Why?
Jhatka meat is meat in which the animal has been killed quickly without suffering or religious ritual.
We must give the rationale behind prescribing jhatka meat as the approved food for the Sikhs. According to the ancient Aryan Hindu tradition, only such meat as is obtained from an animal which is killed with one stroke of the weapon causing instantaneous death is fit for human consumption. However, with the coming of Islam into India and the Muslim political hegemony, it became a state policy not to permit slaughter of animals for food, in any other manner, except as laid down in the Quran - the kosher meat prepared by slowly severing the main blood artery of the throat of the animal while reciting verses from the Quran. It is done to make slaughter a sacrifice to God and to expiate the sins of the slaughter. Guru Gobind Singh took a rather serious view of this aspect of the whole matter. He, therefore, while permitting flesh to be taken as food repudiated the whole theory of this expiatory sacrifice and the right of ruling Muslims to impose iton the non-Muslims. Accordingly, he made jhatka meat obligatory for those Sikhs who may be interested in taking meat as a part of their food.
Sikhism, A Complete Introduction, Dr. H.S.Singha & Satwant Kaur, Hemkunt Press
And one semitic practice clearly rejected in the Sikh code of conduct is eating flesh of an animal cooked in ritualistic manner; this would mean kosher and halal meat. The reason again does not lie in religious tenet but in the view that killing an animal with a prayer is not going to enoble the flesh. No ritual, whoever conducts it, is going to do any good either to the animal or to the diner. Let man do what he must to assuage his hunger. If what he gets, he puts to good use and shares with the needy, then it is well used and well spent, otherwise not.
Sikhs and Sikhism, Dr. I.J.Singh, Manohar Publishers.
Dear All,
Here are my two cents on the subject;
Sabd Guru on Halal
It is the cruel procedure of procuring “Halal Meat”. ਹਲਾਲੁ meaning - ਜਾਇਜ਼, ਭੇਟਾ ਕਰਨ-ਜੋਗ, ਰੱਬ ਦੇ ਨਾਮ ਤੇ ਕੁਰਬਾਨੀ ਦੇਣ ਦੇ ਲਾਇਕ, ਧਰਮ ਅਨੁਕੂਲ, ਜ਼ਿਬਾਹ ਕੀਤਾ ਹੈ, ਦਰੁਸਤ, ਕਾਨੂੰਨੀ ਤੌਰ ਤੇ ਜਾਇਜ਼।- ਧਰਮ ਦੀ ਕਮਾਈ। Permitted, not forbidden- Permissible, legitimate, lawful; sanctioned or permitted by religious law or morality. (2) A method of slaughtering animals by Muslims or Jewish rite for consumption of meat. - ਅ਼. __ ਹ਼ਲਾਲ. ਧਰਮ ਅਨੁਸਾਰ ਜਿਸ ਦਾ ਵਰਤਣਾ ਯੋਗ ਹੈ. "ਮਾਰਣ ਪਾਹਿ ਹਰਾਮ ਮਹਿ, ਹੋਇ ਹਲਾਲ ਨ ਜਾਇ". (ਵਾਰ ਮਾਝ ਮਃ ੧)। (2) ਮੁਸਲਮਾਨੀ ਤਰੀਕੇ ਨਾਲ ਜਿਬਹਿ ਕੀਤੇ ਜੀਵ ਦਾ ਮਾਸ, ਜਿਸਦਾ ਖਾਣਾ ਇਸਲਾਮ ਮਤ ਅਨੁਸਾਰ ਹਲਾਲ ਹੈ. "ਜੀਅ ਜੁ ਮਾਰਹਿ ਜੋਰ ਕਰਿ ਕਹਿਤੇ ਹਹਿ ਜੁ ਹਲਾਲ". (ਸ. ਕਬੀਰ)। (3) ਜਿਬਹਿ. "ਹੋਇ ਹਲਾਲੁ ਲਗੈ ਹਕ ਜਾਇ". (ਵਾਰ ਰਾਮ ੧. ਮਃ ੧) -----Mahan Kosh.
All the holes in the body of the animal are stuffed than the jugular veins are cut slowly to get all the blood out of the body of the animal while “Kalma” is read. It is the blood which is not allowed to be eaten. It has been ridiculed and the act has been replaced by virtue, as referred in AGGS.
ਮਿਹਰ ਮਸੀਤਿ ਸਿਦਕੁ ਮੁਸਲਾ ਹਕੁ ਹਲਾਲੁ ਕੁਰਾਣੁ ॥
Mihar masīṯ siḏak muslā hak halāl kurāṇ.
Let mercy be your mosque, faith your prayer-mat, and honest living your Quran.-----Guru Nanak, Raag, Majh, AGGS, Page, 140-18
ਮਾਰਣ ਪਾਹਿ ਹਰਾਮ ਮਹਿ ਹੋਇ ਹਲਾਲੁ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥
Māraṇ pāhi harām meh ho¬ė halāl na jā¬ė.
By adding spices to forbidden foods, they are not made acceptable.
ਪਹਿਲਾ ਸਚੁ ਹਲਾਲ ਦੁਇ ਤੀਜਾ ਖੈਰ ਖੁਦਾਇ ॥
Pahilā sacẖ halāl ḏu¬ė ṯījā kẖair kẖuḏā¬ė.
Let the first be truthfulness, the second honest living, and the third charity in the Name of God.-----Guru Nanak, Raag Majh, AGGS, Page, 141-2 & 4
ਹੋਇ ਹਲਾਲੁ ਲਗੈ ਹਕਿ ਜਾਇ ॥
Ho¬ė halāl lagai hak jā¬ė.
One who is slaughtered with the knife of Truth (Sharpened on the word and sheathed by good qualities, will be acceptable to Akal Purkh.-----Guru Nanak, Raag Ramkali, AGGS, Page, 956-3
ਹਕੁ ਹਲਾਲੁ ਬਖੋਰਹੁ ਖਾਣਾ ॥
Hak halāl bakẖorahu kẖāṇā.
Let what is earned righteously be your blessed food.-----Guru Arjan, Raag Maru, AGGS, Page, 1084-7
ਜੋਤਿ ਸਰੂਪ ਅਨਾਹਤ ਲਾਗੀ ਕਹੁ ਹਲਾਲੁ ਕਿਆ ਕੀਆ ॥
Joṯ sarūp anāhaṯ lāgī kaho halāl ki¬ā kī¬ā.
The light gets absorbed in the Immortal Divine Essence. What then have thou slaughtered according to the code? -----Bhagat Kabir, Raag Parbhati, AGGS, Page, 1350-7
ਕਬੀਰ ਜੋਰੀ ਕੀਏ ਜੁਲਮੁ ਹੈ ਕਹਤਾ ਨਾਉ ਹਲਾਲੁ ॥
Kabīr jorī kī¬ė julam hai kahṯā nā¬o halāl.
Kabir, to use force is tyranny, even if you call it legal-----Bhagat Kabir, Slokes, AGGS, Page, 1374-11
ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀਅ ਜੁ ਮਾਰਹਿ ਜੋਰੁ ਕਰਿ ਕਹਤੇ ਹਹਿ ਜੁ ਹਲਾਲੁ ॥
Kabīr jī¬a jo māreh jor kar kahṯė heh jo halāl.
Kabir, they oppress living beings and kill them, and call it proper.-----Bhagat Kabir, Slokes, AGGS, Page, 1375-5
Cordially,
Virinder
Here are my two cents on the subject;
Sabd Guru on Halal
It is the cruel procedure of procuring “Halal Meat”. ਹਲਾਲੁ meaning - ਜਾਇਜ਼, ਭੇਟਾ ਕਰਨ-ਜੋਗ, ਰੱਬ ਦੇ ਨਾਮ ਤੇ ਕੁਰਬਾਨੀ ਦੇਣ ਦੇ ਲਾਇਕ, ਧਰਮ ਅਨੁਕੂਲ, ਜ਼ਿਬਾਹ ਕੀਤਾ ਹੈ, ਦਰੁਸਤ, ਕਾਨੂੰਨੀ ਤੌਰ ਤੇ ਜਾਇਜ਼।- ਧਰਮ ਦੀ ਕਮਾਈ। Permitted, not forbidden- Permissible, legitimate, lawful; sanctioned or permitted by religious law or morality. (2) A method of slaughtering animals by Muslims or Jewish rite for consumption of meat. - ਅ਼. __ ਹ਼ਲਾਲ. ਧਰਮ ਅਨੁਸਾਰ ਜਿਸ ਦਾ ਵਰਤਣਾ ਯੋਗ ਹੈ. "ਮਾਰਣ ਪਾਹਿ ਹਰਾਮ ਮਹਿ, ਹੋਇ ਹਲਾਲ ਨ ਜਾਇ". (ਵਾਰ ਮਾਝ ਮਃ ੧)। (2) ਮੁਸਲਮਾਨੀ ਤਰੀਕੇ ਨਾਲ ਜਿਬਹਿ ਕੀਤੇ ਜੀਵ ਦਾ ਮਾਸ, ਜਿਸਦਾ ਖਾਣਾ ਇਸਲਾਮ ਮਤ ਅਨੁਸਾਰ ਹਲਾਲ ਹੈ. "ਜੀਅ ਜੁ ਮਾਰਹਿ ਜੋਰ ਕਰਿ ਕਹਿਤੇ ਹਹਿ ਜੁ ਹਲਾਲ". (ਸ. ਕਬੀਰ)। (3) ਜਿਬਹਿ. "ਹੋਇ ਹਲਾਲੁ ਲਗੈ ਹਕ ਜਾਇ". (ਵਾਰ ਰਾਮ ੧. ਮਃ ੧) -----Mahan Kosh.
All the holes in the body of the animal are stuffed than the jugular veins are cut slowly to get all the blood out of the body of the animal while “Kalma” is read. It is the blood which is not allowed to be eaten. It has been ridiculed and the act has been replaced by virtue, as referred in AGGS.
ਮਿਹਰ ਮਸੀਤਿ ਸਿਦਕੁ ਮੁਸਲਾ ਹਕੁ ਹਲਾਲੁ ਕੁਰਾਣੁ ॥
Mihar masīṯ siḏak muslā hak halāl kurāṇ.
Let mercy be your mosque, faith your prayer-mat, and honest living your Quran.-----Guru Nanak, Raag, Majh, AGGS, Page, 140-18
ਮਾਰਣ ਪਾਹਿ ਹਰਾਮ ਮਹਿ ਹੋਇ ਹਲਾਲੁ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥
Māraṇ pāhi harām meh ho¬ė halāl na jā¬ė.
By adding spices to forbidden foods, they are not made acceptable.
ਪਹਿਲਾ ਸਚੁ ਹਲਾਲ ਦੁਇ ਤੀਜਾ ਖੈਰ ਖੁਦਾਇ ॥
Pahilā sacẖ halāl ḏu¬ė ṯījā kẖair kẖuḏā¬ė.
Let the first be truthfulness, the second honest living, and the third charity in the Name of God.-----Guru Nanak, Raag Majh, AGGS, Page, 141-2 & 4
ਹੋਇ ਹਲਾਲੁ ਲਗੈ ਹਕਿ ਜਾਇ ॥
Ho¬ė halāl lagai hak jā¬ė.
One who is slaughtered with the knife of Truth (Sharpened on the word and sheathed by good qualities, will be acceptable to Akal Purkh.-----Guru Nanak, Raag Ramkali, AGGS, Page, 956-3
ਹਕੁ ਹਲਾਲੁ ਬਖੋਰਹੁ ਖਾਣਾ ॥
Hak halāl bakẖorahu kẖāṇā.
Let what is earned righteously be your blessed food.-----Guru Arjan, Raag Maru, AGGS, Page, 1084-7
ਜੋਤਿ ਸਰੂਪ ਅਨਾਹਤ ਲਾਗੀ ਕਹੁ ਹਲਾਲੁ ਕਿਆ ਕੀਆ ॥
Joṯ sarūp anāhaṯ lāgī kaho halāl ki¬ā kī¬ā.
The light gets absorbed in the Immortal Divine Essence. What then have thou slaughtered according to the code? -----Bhagat Kabir, Raag Parbhati, AGGS, Page, 1350-7
ਕਬੀਰ ਜੋਰੀ ਕੀਏ ਜੁਲਮੁ ਹੈ ਕਹਤਾ ਨਾਉ ਹਲਾਲੁ ॥
Kabīr jorī kī¬ė julam hai kahṯā nā¬o halāl.
Kabir, to use force is tyranny, even if you call it legal-----Bhagat Kabir, Slokes, AGGS, Page, 1374-11
ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀਅ ਜੁ ਮਾਰਹਿ ਜੋਰੁ ਕਰਿ ਕਹਤੇ ਹਹਿ ਜੁ ਹਲਾਲੁ ॥
Kabīr jī¬a jo māreh jor kar kahṯė heh jo halāl.
Kabir, they oppress living beings and kill them, and call it proper.-----Bhagat Kabir, Slokes, AGGS, Page, 1375-5
Cordially,
Virinder
Thanks for sharing this.
Interestingly Muslims say theirs is the way that is most humane of slaughtering.
The Sikh thought on this is not about cruelty, because if you think about it “humane slaughtering” is a bit of an oxy{censored}.
What the Guru’s said was, look what is the point of, “ritual slaughter”?
Is it going to purify it?
If you are saying you are purifying it, then for what purpose?
How can a man purify that which is created by God?
Ritual slaughter would include Halal, Kosher and even Hindu Bali (which is Jhatka).
So it is not the method of slaughter which is being criticised, but the ritual itself. The Guru’s criticised Anustrani, where an animal (and vegetable food), wood be dispatched with the cremated body to help appease the dead person ancestors. A meaningless ritual, for the Guru’s.
It is important to remember that the Guru’s are not criticising just Halal, but the word being used is “Kuttha” pronounced “Katthaa” which criticises ALL ritual slaughter, but does not criticise meat eating per se.
This point is one that many people miss in their eagerness to prove a point one way in another.
The Guru’s were no fools, they chose the specific word of “Kuttha” as shown here Page 472:
mehlaa 1.
maanas khaanay karahi nivaaj.
chhuree vagaa-in tin gal taag.
tin ghar barahman pooreh naad.
unHaa bhe aavahi o-ee saad.
koorhee raas koorhaa vaapaar.
koorh bol karahi aahaar.
saram Dharam kaa dayraa door.
naanak koorh rahi-aa bharpoor.
mathai tikaa tayrh Dhotee kakhaa-ee.
hath chhuree jagat kaasaa-ee.
neel vastar pahir hoveh parvaan.
malaychh Dhaan lay poojeh puraan.
abhaakhi-aa kaa kuthaa bakraa khaanaa.
cha-ukay upar kisai na jaanaa.
day kai cha-ukaa kadhee kaar.
upar aa-ay baithay koorhi-aar.
mat bhitai vay mat bhitai.
ih ann asaadaa fitai.
tan fitai fayrh karayn.
man joothai chulee bharayn.
kaho naanak sach Dhi-aa-ee-ai.
such hovai taa sach paa-ee-ai.
First Mehl:
The man-eaters say their prayers.
Those who wield the knife wear the sacred thread around their necks.
In their homes, the Brahmins sound the conch.
They too have the same taste.
False is their capital, and false is their trade.
Speaking falsehood, they take their food.
The home of modesty and Dharma is far from them.
O Nanak, they are totally permeated with falsehood. The sacred marks are on their foreheads, and the saffron loin-cloths are around their waists;
in their hands they hold the knives - they are the butchers of the world!
Wearing blue robes, they seek the approval of the Muslim rulers.
Accepting bread from the Muslim rulers, they still worship the Puraanas.
They eat the meat of the goats, killed after the Muslim prayers are read over them,
but they do not allow anyone else to enter their kitchen areas.
They draw lines around them, plastering the ground with cow-dung.
The false come and sit within them.
They cry out, "Do not touch our food,
this food of ours will be polluted!
But with their polluted bodies, they commit evil deeds.
With filthy minds, they try to cleanse their mouths.
Says Nanak, meditate on the True Lord.
If you are pure, you will obtain the True Lord.
Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji
The key to this is Ritual, Ritual purification, Ritual Slaughter (done under the guise of prayers, be it Muslim or otherwise).
Is commercial meat sold in Super markets also can be called sacrificed or ritual meat. I think these people in the slaughtering house are least bothered. I have seen they play a tape recorder. Is this also forbidden or we sikh should not take it serious.
Best regards
Mohinder Singh Sahni
I have been in a slaughter house in the UK, and i can tell you there are no prayers; no appeasement of God; no sign of religious symbols.
It's purely commercial.
Hars13 ji
You can read an e-book with the story of Sadna at this link Bhagats of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji | Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Academy Malaysia - Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Academy Malaysia
Go to this link for discussion,
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/gurmat-vichaar-project/23874-bhagats-sri-guru-granth-sahib-ji-2.html
You can read an e-book with the story of Sadna at this link Bhagats of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji | Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Academy Malaysia - Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Academy Malaysia
Go to this link for discussion,
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/gurmat-vichaar-project/23874-bhagats-sri-guru-granth-sahib-ji-2.html
Randip Ji, My main question whether commerical meat slaughtered this way is forbidden for us sikhs(particularly for a person like me who lives in middle east) remained unanswered.
Best regards
Mohinder Singh Sahni
Probably not. It is not the method that the Guru's frowned upon but rather the sacrifice element.
I am sure you could get someone to do it without the prayers and sacrifice?
For me I would say avoid Kuttha at all costs, but if you are unsure, I am sure it would not be held against you.
As I have suggested, restrict meat discussion to fools who wrangle over flesh thread. I will keep this here for 24 hours before deleting.
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/8828-fools-who-wrangle-over-flesh.html
Thanks Randip singh Ji,
Vaheguru ji Ka khalsa, vaheguru Ji ki Fateh.
I will thank God today for your nice advice.
"Vaheguru ji sanu sumatt deyo, assi murakh haan.Jo soch tusi ditti hai usse te chal rahe haan."
I think people like us want to prove ourself the best by saying fool to others but we are changing our sikh history day by day.
Regards,
Har13
Fools rangle over flesh;
Dear All,
Whether to consume any kind of meat should be a matter of personal preference on the basis of taste etc. It is foolhardy to bring religion into this issue. Guru Nanak has explained it very well in raag Malar AGGS, Page, 290: Only God knows what is good and what is bad. Meat has been eaten in all the four ages and has been referred in all religious books.
ਮਾਸੁ ਪੁਰਾਣੀ ਮਾਸੁ ਕਤੇਬਂ*ੀ ਚਹੁ ਜੁਗਿ ਮਾਸੁ ਕਮਾਣਾ ॥ ਪਾਂਡੇ ਤੂ ਜਾਣੈ ਹੀ ਨਾਹੀ ਕਿਥਹੁ ਮਾਸੁ ਉਪੰਨਾ ॥ਤੋਇਅਹੁ ਅੰਨੁ ਕਮਾਦੁ ਕਪਾਹਾਂ ਤੋਇਅਹੁ ਤ੍ਰਿਭਵਣੁ ਗੰਨਾ ॥ਮਾਤ ਪਿਤਾ ਕੀ ਰਕਤੁ ਨਿਪੰਨੇ ਮਛੀ ਮਾਸੁ ਨ ਖਾਂਹੀ ॥ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ ਪੁਰਖੈ ਜਾਂ ਨਿਸਿ ਮੇਲਾ ਓਥੈ ਮੰਧੁ ਕਮਾਹੀ ॥ Maas PuraaNee Maas Kataybeen Chaoh Jug Maas KamaaNaa, PaanDay Too JaaNai Hee Naahee Kithoh Maas Upunnaa, To-i-ahu Ann Kamaad KapaahaaN To-i-ahu Taribhavan Gannaa, Maat Pitaa Kee Rakat Nipannay Machhee Maas Na KhaaNhee, Istaree Purkhai JaaN Nis Maylaa Othai ManDh Kamaahee.
Meat is allowed in the Puraanas and in other Holy books. Throughout the four ages, meat has been used. O Pundit, you do not know where meat originated. Corn, sugar cane and cotton are produced from water. The three worlds came from water. They are produced from the blood of their mothers and fathers who do not eat fish or meat. But when men and women meet in the night, they come together in the flesh.
It is requested to close this thread atleast IMHO.
Virinder
Dear All,
Whether to consume any kind of meat should be a matter of personal preference on the basis of taste etc. It is foolhardy to bring religion into this issue. Guru Nanak has explained it very well in raag Malar AGGS, Page, 290: Only God knows what is good and what is bad. Meat has been eaten in all the four ages and has been referred in all religious books.
ਮਾਸੁ ਪੁਰਾਣੀ ਮਾਸੁ ਕਤੇਬਂ*ੀ ਚਹੁ ਜੁਗਿ ਮਾਸੁ ਕਮਾਣਾ ॥ ਪਾਂਡੇ ਤੂ ਜਾਣੈ ਹੀ ਨਾਹੀ ਕਿਥਹੁ ਮਾਸੁ ਉਪੰਨਾ ॥ਤੋਇਅਹੁ ਅੰਨੁ ਕਮਾਦੁ ਕਪਾਹਾਂ ਤੋਇਅਹੁ ਤ੍ਰਿਭਵਣੁ ਗੰਨਾ ॥ਮਾਤ ਪਿਤਾ ਕੀ ਰਕਤੁ ਨਿਪੰਨੇ ਮਛੀ ਮਾਸੁ ਨ ਖਾਂਹੀ ॥ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ ਪੁਰਖੈ ਜਾਂ ਨਿਸਿ ਮੇਲਾ ਓਥੈ ਮੰਧੁ ਕਮਾਹੀ ॥ Maas PuraaNee Maas Kataybeen Chaoh Jug Maas KamaaNaa, PaanDay Too JaaNai Hee Naahee Kithoh Maas Upunnaa, To-i-ahu Ann Kamaad KapaahaaN To-i-ahu Taribhavan Gannaa, Maat Pitaa Kee Rakat Nipannay Machhee Maas Na KhaaNhee, Istaree Purkhai JaaN Nis Maylaa Othai ManDh Kamaahee.
Meat is allowed in the Puraanas and in other Holy books. Throughout the four ages, meat has been used. O Pundit, you do not know where meat originated. Corn, sugar cane and cotton are produced from water. The three worlds came from water. They are produced from the blood of their mothers and fathers who do not eat fish or meat. But when men and women meet in the night, they come together in the flesh.
It is requested to close this thread atleast IMHO.
Virinder
There maybe something in this, but probably not what you want to here.
The influence of Vaishno orientated Sikh groups has increased add infinitum since 1850. Groups like AKJ, Namdhari, DDT (which has had a change), GNNSJ etc etc seem to be positioning themselves as mainstream, which is furthest from the truth.
Sorry Rndip Singh Ji,
I even do not know the meaning of AKJ, DDT, GNNSJ. You must be surprised that I heard it first time in my life (up to now) that we (sikh) can eat meat. One of my teacher (christian) usually asked me regarding our religion and I told him our qualities. By looking at jhatka video I can not stop my tears and obviously different people treat it differently. I am not querlling upon any issue because u people have to decide which is in our religion. And we are your next generations to obey. As I told ,I even do not know much about gurbani, I just shared my thoughts.
DISCUSSION ON MEAT EATING DELETED. PLEASE STICK TO FOOLS WRANGLE OVER FLESH
ALSO PLEASE DO NOT QUOTE FROM SIKHIWIKI BUT FROM SITES SUCH AS:
www.srigranth.org
and
http://www.searchgurbani.com/main.php?book=bhai_gurdas_vaaran&action=index
Thanks
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