Why Our Souls Separated From God?

[Harkiran Kaur]

I would like to know your philosophical view point of why God could have created everything and why then when he did? Why not before that?

Do we even have a ‘when’? We can’t accurately say how long the universe has been in existence. Rather I’d say that our experience of time is somewhat of an illusion. If someone is closer to the sun, their experience of time is different than those of us on earth. If you were to enter a black hole (and survive it) time would be essentially at a stand still compared to those outside. Some scientists are now thinking the entire universe works like a hologram. All the information for the 3-4D time space is stored ‘somewhere’ in a singular plane in a state of just pure existence... where all of time can be seen from an outside viewpoint.
Take for example a book. A novel sitting on a table. It contains all of the story, including its passage of time in the story. But the book sitting there cover closed, it contains all of the story, all of the time. That information always exists but until someone enters the story by reading it, they don’t experience the illusion of time in the story. Or similarly a computer game sitting on a hard drive on a computer which is powered off. The entire game world is there. But until you power on the computer and enter the game world it’s just data stored on a device. How can you say how much time passes in that game world? When was it created? It will be different for each player after all right? Their own experience of that game exists an entirely different version and experience of time in that world.

 

[Yuno]

but it is not a given, even within Sikhism, that reincarnation and life on basis of previous deeds has any foundation, many Sikhs live their life free of this Vedic concept

No sir either you are still complicating or missing some point but it sure does have some foundation that our current life's deeds would effect reincarnation of next life. Confusion might have been caused by my usage of word "previous deeds", I used that word to represent next life.

"Guru Nanak warns: suni suni sikh hamari sukritu kita rahasi mere jiare bahuri na avai vari — Listen, listen to my advice, O my Mind! Only good deeds shall endure, and there may not be another chance (GG, 154). Says Guru Arjan: “milu jagadis milan ki baria chirankal ih deh sanjaria — do meet the Lord of the Universe, for now is the time. After ages (passing through many different forms) have you attained the gift of human life” (GG, 176). Here in the world man has the opportunity to achieve ethical perfection, cherish the Lord and earn final release."

 

[Harry Haller]

No sir either you are still complicating or missing some point but it sure does have some foundation that our current life's deeds would effect reincarnation of next life. Confusion might have been caused by my usage of word "previous deeds", I used that word to represent next life.

"Guru Nanak warns: suni suni sikh hamari sukritu kita rahasi mere jiare bahuri na avai vari — Listen, listen to my advice, O my Mind! Only good deeds shall endure, and there may not be another chance (GG, 154). Says Guru Arjan: “milu jagadis milan ki baria chirankal ih deh sanjaria — do meet the Lord of the Universe, for now is the time. After ages (passing through many different forms) have you attained the gift of human life” (GG, 176). Here in the world man has the opportunity to achieve ethical perfection, cherish the Lord and earn final release."

There are many Sikhs that reject reincarnation and karma

 

[Yuno]

There are many Sikhs that reject reincarnation and karma

Okay, didn't knew about that.

 

[Yuno]

Do we even have a ‘when’? We can’t accurately say how long the universe has been in existence.

I used the word 'when' to express my thought but I surely did not questioned anything like for how long universe has been in existence.

 

[Yuno]

Do we even have a ‘when’? We can’t accurately say how long the universe has been in existence. Rather I’d say that our experience of time is somewhat of an illusion. If someone is closer to the sun, their experience of time is different than those of us on earth. If you were to enter a black hole (and survive it) time would be essentially at a stand still compared to those outside. Some scientists are now thinking the entire universe works like a hologram. All the information for the 3-4D time space is stored ‘somewhere’ in a singular plane in a state of just pure existence... where all of time can be seen from an outside viewpoint.
Take for example a book. A novel sitting on a table. It contains all of the story, including its passage of time in the story. But the book sitting there cover closed, it contains all of the story, all of the time. That information always exists but until someone enters the story by reading it, they don’t experience the illusion of time in the story. Or similarly a computer game sitting on a hard drive on a computer which is powered off. The entire game world is there. But until you power on the computer and enter the game world it’s just data stored on a device. How can you say how much time passes in that game world? When was it created? It will be different for each player after all right? Their own experience of that game exists an entirely different version and experience of time in that world.

This whole explanation is considerable if I asked anything about time which I certainly did not.
What I asked was the reason behind creation. After that I asked what was he doing before that, why didn't he created anything before than when he did.
But all that is now just in vain as Harry Haller already helped me in understanding that all that could be answer by god himself.
"Actually its impossible to answer, if God has been around forever, then time is irrelevant, I could say God did it a few years after God came on the scene, but God has always been on the scene, so your asking a human being an impossible question that only a God could answer, I am not a God unfortunately, but there are a few on this site that think they are, they could give you answer."

 

[Harry Haller]

When I said it just ‘is’ I was speaking about the ONEness point of view vs duality and that as soon as from the duality viewpoint is realized that everything is ONE, the duality automatically collapses. It’s just ‘logic’ same as from ONEness point of view if ONE contemplates an other then thereby is no more ONE. Duality is created. I wasn’t speaking about my personal beliefs but just logic applied to philosophy. Even in classical sense read Aristotle etc. Same realizations...

I wasn’t really even intimating my own theory as such. Just showing how that philosophical thought agrees with Gurbani. Your view on the meaning of that shabad may be different... from what I remember in past conversations I am thinking you more interpret it to mean duality as like a split personality disorder and integration in a psychology sense? (I’m asking not telling so please share how you would interpret that shabad).

Harkiranji

I have changed my thoughts since our past conversations, all we have is the now, and what we do with it is the meaning of life, is my current stance.

As far as God goes, I have yet to meet anyone that knows God, that has any belief system that can be challenged, without any blanks, so I have to conclude that God is utterly unknowable other than a few crumbs of knowledge.

my opinion only.

P.S. There are a million different ways of accepting God and the meaning of this life, we are not restricted to only the two lines of thought, duality and oneness, although they explain the metaphysical states, I personally reject them both as a way of explaining life, we can wax lyrical about drops in the ocean all we like, but at the end of the day we will live a life, and then we will die, whether it carries on, or not, that much is true, we can take a look and make theories about a bigger picture, and how this life can be part of that, or we can focus completely on this life, or, in my case, we can just live today, plant a few good seeds for tomorrow, and keep going until tomorrow exists no more, and hopefully learn about ourselves along the way, we could call this {censored}itism

 

[chazSingh]

When I said it just ‘is’ I was speaking about the ONEness point of view vs duality and that as soon as from the duality viewpoint is realized that everything is ONE, the duality automatically collapses. It’s just ‘logic’ same as from ONEness point of view if ONE contemplates an other then thereby is no more ONE. Duality is created. I wasn’t speaking about my personal beliefs but just logic applied to philosophy. Even in classical sense read Aristotle etc. Same realizations...

I wasn’t really even intimating my own theory as such. Just showing how that philosophical thought agrees with Gurbani. Your view on the meaning of that shabad may be different... from what I remember in past conversations I am thinking you more interpret it to mean duality as like a split personality disorder and integration in a psychology sense? (I’m asking not telling so please share how you would interpret that shabad).

Like waking up each morning and realising the YOU in the dream wasn't real

Everything comes from this unveiling...thankfully we have shabad Guru to help ease us out of our entanglement with duality lol...

Your posts ring very true with my own first hand experiences...never stop your unravelling in inner seeking...we need people like you

 

[Sikhilove]

According to Gurbani, it’s not that our souls are something separate from Creator at all. Rather we are in a state of illusion of separation where we have forgotten that we really are ONE.

There is a reason for duality. As ONE there is nothing else and nobody else to make subjective comparison. As ONE it’s impossible to contemplate anything or anyone else. It’s only through duality that ONE can experience subjectively its own self. However it would not work if memory was retained as then the illusion of separateness collapses as soon as you realize you are in fact ONE.

I remember a quote which sums it up well... paraphrased... “Reality is the act of the ONE Creator experiencing itself subjectively through its own creation” and this must be done in amnesia of itself or it really isn’t able to grasp a separate point of observation... because well there really in reality is none.

When we speak of ‘merging’ back with Creator really what we should say is remove the veil of illusion which is keeping us from remembering that we are already ONE and always were ONE and always will be ONE.

I like and agree with much of your post

We all really know who we are, we just choose to sell out to maya.

All is blessed karam. We remember and forget as He Wills it according to what we deserve. Don't use so much logic, just experience with your heart.

Go into deep samadhi, go deeper

 

[Sikhilove]

Like waking up each morning and realising the YOU in the dream wasn't real

Everything comes from this unveiling...thankfully we have shabad Guru to help ease us out of our entanglement with duality lol...

Your posts ring very true with my own first hand experiences...never stop your unravelling in inner seeking...we need people like you

Lol funny how some of us just know this stuff from our heart speaking within. Shows that we are all One

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Our personal experiences are personal which cannot be shared with anyone.

It is your attempt to mock others who have not had the same experience as you and Chaz claim you did is uncalled for and it seems from your various posts in various threads that you have convinced yourself you are the chosen few, is a mockery of Sikhi which is a shame.

Lol funny how some of us just know this stuff from our heart speaking within. Shows that we are all One

 

[Harry Haller]

Lol funny how some of us just know this stuff from our heart speaking within. Shows that we are all One

how can you know its your heart? and how can that show we are all one? I personally think you are speaking through another organ, we are clearly not all one......

 

[sukhsingh]

Since according to sikhi, the ultimate aim of human life is to become ONE with god, I wonder why souls separated from god in the first place?

P.S. I don't wanna hurt anyone's feelings so please bear with it if my question sounds arrogant.

I don't think sikhi professes such a position on any level

 

[sukhsingh]

I don't believe oneness is a accurate description, or counter point to dualism.. I think the term non-dualism is more accurate to describe sikh philosophy.. Sikh philosophy does not reject duality, rather it accepts that opposites are defined by the other.. However, there is no other when you realise that the 'other' is defined symbiotically, and moreover once you realise that you realise that we create, paradigms, political, cultural, social, economic and ultimately power structures which define us and the environments we create.. Of domination, exploitation, fear based on the 'other'.

Sikhi in my interpretation recognises and more importantly provides not only philosophical articulations to understand that but more importantly ideals to live by so as to counter the consequences of sentient consciousness..

Naam japo, kirat karo, vandh shako

 

[Yuno]

I don't think sikhi professes on any level

Which position exactly?

 

[sukhsingh]

Which position exactly?

Souls separated from god

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Souls separated from god

This really puzzles me. As Ik Ong Kaar is omnipresent, it is impossible to have separation of any sort.

 

[Dalvinder Singh Grewal]

God and soul are never separated. it is like ether, air or light- inside or outside it is the same. Body's wall or structure does not separate them.

 

[Yuno]

This really puzzles me. As Ik Ong Kaar is omnipresent, it is impossible to have separation of any sort.

God and soul are never separated. it is like ether, air or light- inside or outside it is the same. Body's wall or structure does not separate them.

Agreed. Now,if the word "merging" back with god is right, then what word can define those' current state who haven't merged with god yet?
Just to make clear, all I wanted to know was the reason behind god's creation, why everything started in the first place? Which Harry Haller told me "only god knows this answer"

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Agreed. Now,if the word "merging" back with god is right, then what word can define those' current state who haven't merged with god yet?
Just to make clear, all I wanted to know was the reason behind god's creation, why everything started in the first place? Which Harry Haller told me "only god knows this answer"

Merging is an incorrect translation. All the Shabads where 'merging' is used in English, it simply means to make our mind Ik Ong Kaar centred. The so-called 'separation' from The Source is about our mind that has not found the connection yet. Gurbani gives us the connector.

Just to make clear, all I wanted to know was the reason behind god's creation, why everything started in the first place?

Well, then I would urge you to read anything written by Neil deGrasse Tyson. He says that "we are part of the Stardust." How can we not be?

Sikhi teaches us to say, "I do not know," perhaps one day, I will find out. Sikhi only focuses on the only life we know and gives us the tools how to make ourselves better as beings in all aspects in this very life. This is all one can do if one is willing to.