It would be too much of an eye-sore to quote everyone who responded, so I will just send out a BIG THANK YOU to everyone who responded right here, I cannot express how appreciative I am of you guys putting in the effort to respond so eloquently.
I have been conversing with a fellow non-Sikh about Sikhi for a few days now. I told him a bit about the philosophy of Guru Nanak, like not believing in miracles and whatnot, as well as some other things (what Guru Granth Sahib Ji actually means when it talks about heaven/hell/reincarnation etc...). He also asked me why Guru Nanak Ji was considered a Guru, and I told him the same things Sikhs told me when I had asked, that he went missing for 3 days, had spoken (literally) to Waheguru, was ordered to spread the message. He was the one that said, well doesn't that contradict with the whole "no miracle" thing? I had never really thought about it before, which is why I wanted to ask, amazing how much you can learn talking with someone who has a different perspective lol.
I am afraid that is not all though
He asked me other questions as well, I may as well just quote them word-for-word, everyone here seems really knowledgable on Sikhism, so I trust that the answers I get will be genuine.
1)
"Speaking of which, isn't Nanak emerging from a Lake in which he supposedly was commissioned in the "waheGuru's court" a sort of Miracle?
Without believing in such said miracle, you are stripping the authority (as you claimed earlier this was his claim to fame) away from Nanak."
Okay so obviously the first part about the "miracle" has been answered. But what about the second part? This person in particular is a Muslim (I am also spending some time studying Islam, so am conversing with Muslims as well). So you could say that his thinking is very "Abrahamic". Muhammad claims to have gotten revelations from the angel Gabriel, that is why he is an authority figure for Muslims. Christians believe Jesus to be the actual Son of God, that is why he is an authority figure for them. Jews believe Moses to have gotten direct revelations from the (Abrahamic) God, that is why he is an authority figure for them. In each case, the "prophet" has laid claim to some sort of communication with a divine source, LITERAL communication, like words were actually exchanged.
After reading through this thread, I have come to realize that this is not the case in Sikhi. Guru Nanak Ji, it would seem, did not actually claim to have "communicated" with God, at least not in the way most people understand "communication" to mean. Instead, it sounds more like Sikhism is his own personal opinion, after having been exposed to a multitude of different belief systems, after being witness to the chaos of the world around him due to the Mughal invasions, after seeing the damage hypocrisy does to society and people, he set out to live an honest life, do good for others, and instead of using religion as a means to divide people, he wanted to use it to unite people. Instead of making God an angry old man in the sky, he taught people to see God in all, that we are all the same, that we should treat others the way we would treat the Lord himself. Is this correct?
If so, what exactly makes him an authority figure? In other words, if Sikhi is his (Guru Nanak Ji's) opinion of the best way to do things, how do I explain to an Abrahamic, someone who believes that only those in direct communion with the divine should be trusted, that it is logical and rational to live my entire life according to the opinions of a man, a very humble and wise man, but ultimately a man who did not claim to have spoken to anything supernatural?
2) And his other question:
"What differentiates the Guru Granth from a book like the Communist Manefesto? (Other than the fact the Communist Manifesto has less authors and has had more of an impact on the world)."
Sort of ties in with the above. If Guru Granth Sahib Ji is a manifestation of the
opinion of the 10 Gurus and other devotees of the best way to live life, highlighting what is wrong in society and how it can be fixed, how is it different to the Communist Manifesto, which although I haven't read, also does seem to talk about what is wrong in the world and lays out solutions to fixing the issues.
3) And my own personal question that I do not believe has been answered yet: In certain parts of Guru Granth Sahib Ji, it talks about having your deeds read out in the presence of the Lord of Dharma and also about how you will be
judged according to your actions. Examples:
ਸਲੋਕੁ ॥
सलोकु ॥
Salok.
Shalok:
ਪਵਣੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਪਾਣੀ ਪਿਤਾ ਮਾਤਾ ਧਰਤਿ ਮਹਤੁ ॥
पवणु गुरू पाणी पिता माता धरति महतु ॥
Pavaṇ gurū pāṇī piṯā māṯā ḏẖaraṯ mahaṯ.
Air is the Guru, Water is the Father, and Earth is the Great Mother of all.
ਦਿਵਸੁ ਰਾਤਿ ਦੁਇ ਦਾਈ ਦਾਇਆ ਖੇਲੈ ਸਗਲ ਜਗਤੁ ॥
दिवसु राति दुइ दाई दाइआ खेलै सगल जगतु ॥
Ḏivas rāṯ ḏu▫e ḏā▫ī ḏā▫i▫ā kẖelai sagal jagaṯ.
Day and night are the two nurses, in whose lap all the world is at play.
ਚੰਗਿਆਈਆ ਬੁਰਿਆਈਆ ਵਾਚੈ ਧਰਮੁ ਹਦੂਰਿ ॥
चंगिआईआ बुरिआईआ वाचै धरमु हदूरि ॥
Cẖang▫ā▫ī▫ā buri▫ā▫ī▫ā vācẖai ḏẖaram haḏūr.
Good deeds and bad deeds-the record is read out in the Presence of the Lord of Dharma.
ਕਰਮੀ ਆਪੋ ਆਪਣੀ ਕੇ ਨੇੜੈ ਕੇ ਦੂਰਿ ॥
करमी आपो आपणी के नेड़ै के दूरि ॥
Karmī āpo āpṇī ke neṛai ke ḏūr.
According to their own actions, some are drawn closer, and some are driven farther away.
ਜਿਨੀ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਇਆ ਗਏ ਮਸਕਤਿ ਘਾਲਿ ॥
जिनी नामु धिआइआ गए मसकति घालि ॥
Jinī nām ḏẖi▫ā▫i▫ā ga▫e maskaṯ gẖāl.
Those who have meditated on the Naam, the Name of the Lord, and departed after having worked by the sweat of their brows -
ਨਾਨਕ ਤੇ ਮੁਖ ਉਜਲੇ ਕੇਤੀ ਛੁਟੀ ਨਾਲਿ ॥੧॥
नानक ते मुख उजले केती छुटी नालि ॥१॥
Nānak ṯe mukẖ ujle keṯī cẖẖutī nāl. ||1||
O Nanak, their faces are radiant in the Court of the Lord, and many are saved along with them! ||1||
And also:
ਰਾਤੀ ਰੁਤੀ ਥਿਤੀ ਵਾਰ ॥
राती रुती थिती वार ॥
Rāṯī ruṯī thiṯī vār.
Nights, days, weeks and seasons;
ਪਵਣ ਪਾਣੀ ਅਗਨੀ ਪਾਤਾਲ ॥
पवण पाणी अगनी पाताल ॥
Pavaṇ pāṇī agnī pāṯāl.
wind, water, fire and the nether regions -
ਤਿਸੁ ਵਿਚਿ ਧਰਤੀ ਥਾਪਿ ਰਖੀ ਧਰਮ ਸਾਲ ॥
तिसु विचि धरती थापि रखी धरम साल ॥
Ŧis vicẖ ḏẖarṯī thāp rakẖī ḏẖaram sāl.
in the midst of these, He established the earth as a home for Dharma.
ਤਿਸੁ ਵਿਚਿ ਜੀਅ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਕੇ ਰੰਗ ॥
तिसु विचि जीअ जुगति के रंग ॥
Ŧis vicẖ jī▫a jugaṯ ke rang.
Upon it, He placed the various species of beings.
ਤਿਨ ਕੇ ਨਾਮ ਅਨੇਕ ਅਨੰਤ ॥
तिन के नाम अनेक अनंत ॥
Ŧin ke nām anek ananṯ.
Their names are uncounted and endless.
ਕਰਮੀ ਕਰਮੀ ਹੋਇ ਵੀਚਾਰੁ ॥
करमी करमी होइ वीचारु ॥
Karmī karmī ho▫e vīcẖār.
By their deeds and their actions, they shall be judged.
ਸਚਾ ਆਪਿ ਸਚਾ ਦਰਬਾਰੁ ॥
सचा आपि सचा दरबारु ॥
Sacẖā āp sacẖā ḏarbār.
God Himself is True, and True is His Court.
ਤਿਥੈ ਸੋਹਨਿ ਪੰਚ ਪਰਵਾਣੁ ॥
तिथै सोहनि पंच परवाणु ॥
Ŧithai sohan pancẖ parvāṇ.
There, in perfect grace and ease, sit the self-elect, the self-realized Saints.
ਨਦਰੀ ਕਰਮਿ ਪਵੈ ਨੀਸਾਣੁ ॥
नदरी करमि पवै नीसाणु ॥
Naḏrī karam pavai nīsāṇ.
They receive the Mark of Grace from the Merciful Lord.
ਕਚ ਪਕਾਈ ਓਥੈ ਪਾਇ ॥
कच पकाई ओथै पाइ ॥
Kacẖ pakā▫ī othai pā▫e.
The ripe and the unripe, the good and the bad, shall there be judged.
ਨਾਨਕ ਗਇਆ ਜਾਪੈ ਜਾਇ ॥੩੪॥
नानक गइआ जापै जाइ ॥३४॥
Nānak ga▫i▫ā jāpai jā▫e. ||34||
O Nanak, when you go home, you will see this. ||34||
Seeing as Sikhi rejects the concepts of heaven/hell/reincarnation, and no one is going to "judge" you when you die, and there is no 'record" of your deeds since Sikhi (as per my understanding) also rejects the concept of sin, how exactly do you reconcile those beliefs with what is being said in the Shabads above? How are "the record is read out in the presence of the Lord of Dharma" and "by their deeds and their actions, they shall be
judged", how does that somehow apply to THIS life?
I hope I haven't caused any offence, that wasn't my intention, I am just trying to figure all this out, as I am currently not educated enough on Sikhi to be able to answer these questions on my own.
Regards,
ExploringSikhi.
:japosatnamwaheguru:
for providing you with this list. Of particular note on that list are Karam Singh and Harjinder Sigh Dilgeer. Baldev Singh is really one of the frontiersmen to write in English extensively, and concurrently with the Internet, making his ideas more widely available. As I said in my pm, I will hopefully do a better job later on.
