Yoga V/s Simran V/s Meditation?

[Harry Haller]

let me repeat.
how does one lead a healthy life?
1. Exercise
2. Nutrition
3. Rest
4. Moral Conduct
5. Meditation

You cannot skip any of those.

I skip 4 of these on a regular basis

 

[japjisahib04]

1. telling us to meditate
2. telling us why to meditate
3. telling us how to meditate
4. telling us how to meditate correctly
5. telling us about avoid traps and pitfalls on the way and how to overcome them
6. inspiring us to meditate by giving tons of examples of people who meditated Prehlaad, Dhruv, Ajamal, Sudama, etc, tons and including themselves and Saints and Bhagats.
7. telling us to meditate so much that it becomes 24/7 meditation, that it happens even during sleep!
8. telling us about the kinds of experiences you will have while meditating
9. telling us about the significance of these experiences
10. describing high-level meditation experiences, the kind where you are work from abc--> all the way to xyz. The very end-game experiences that only a rare few can have.
Why don't you read the other 1429 pages where all this is mentioned?

Can you kindly list one whole shabad with your understanding so as I understand how you arrive at above to meditate and its benefit.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Bhagat Singh says:

let me repeat.
how does one lead a healthy life?
1. Exercise
2. Nutrition
3. Rest
4. Moral Conduct
5. Meditation

You cannot skip any of those.

Harry Haller Replies

I skip 4 of these on a regular basis

Harry ji,

Guru Fateh.

Thanks for being honest and blunt about your own frailties which many of us are not able to do because we look like Sikhs which is our only calling card.

Kaam, Krodh, Lobh, Moh, Hankaar are the five thieves that Gurbani gives us the tools how to lasso them to our advantage. Through Gurbani we can shepard them in our inner corral. They can not be gotten rid off because they are part of our DNA. As one or more escape from our fence most of the times, it is nothing but a pipe dream that Bhagat ji has said because the same Mantra is used by the Derawalas in their non profit corporations.

Bhagat ji, please feel free to pitch in with the help of Gurbani about your five keys to success mentioned above.

Thanks

Tejwant Singh

 

[BhagatSingh]

Bhaji
I have already answered your first question in depth, in previous replies to this thread. Kindly read those replies and let me know if you have any questions or objections to it.

Who has the benchmark meter to know the difference?

One who excels at meditation gains the understanding and the bibek required to know which action is morally superior given their current situation. They gain insight into the moment, and thus they obtain the freedom to take the morally superior action. Their anxiety and fear is reduced and they gain increased compassion for living things.

The other way is to consult with someone who is morally superior than you, who excels at meditation, e.g. Guru Sahibs. The third is to consult books by such people e.g. Guru Granth Sahib.

 

[BhagatSingh]

Can you kindly list one whole shabad with your understanding so as I understand how you arrive at above to meditate and its benefit.

And take away your opportunity to read 1439 pages of Guru Granth Sahib? I couldn't do that lol.

If you are looking for a shabad to start your quest to read 1439 pages of Guru Granth Sahib with, you can look at the same post where I analyzed the shabad you presented. I loaded that up with other shabads that you can look at.

Happy reading!

 

[Original]

STANZA 38

This stanza has its own special place in Guru Nanak's Jap Ji. The very essence of moral living and spiritual practice required for God-realisation, expressed as a metaphor, forms the basis of a good human trait. Using the goldsmith [ਸੁਨਿਆਰੁ] and his workshop as an analogy where ornaments [gold] are made, Guru Nanak explains the vital technique for the soul [human] to attain oneness with waheguru - it is in this perfect mint of shabd that the soul [ornament] is moulded.

Saints n Sages [meditators] have manipulated the use of language to conceal the essence of their profound experiences, which requires detailed examination to fully appreciate their meaning and worth.

 

[BhagatSingh]

STANZA 38

This stanza has its own special place in Guru Nanak's Jap Ji. The very essence of moral living and spiritual practice required for God-realisation, expressed as a metaphor, forms the basis of a good human trait. Using the goldsmith [ਸੁਨਿਆਰੁ] and his workshop as an analogy where ornaments [gold] are made, Guru Nanak explains the vital technique for the soul [human] to attain oneness with waheguru - it is in this perfect mint of shabd that the soul [ornament] is moulded.

Saints n Sages [meditators] have manipulated the use of language to conceal the essence of their profound experiences, which requires detailed examination to fully appreciate their meaning and worth.

Original what do oyu think about my translation and interpretation of it?
Did you find that it matched your experience of meditation?

 

[BhagatSingh]

I skip 4 of these on a regular basis

My post wasn't directed at you but at Japji. But it's good to know where your strengths and weaknesses lie. I still accept you as a friend regardless of that.

 

[Harry Haller]

All our posts are directed at everyone, that is the beauty of a forum, in any case, after much thinking, I am afraid its all 5 that I skip on a regular basis.

One who excels at meditation gains the understanding and the bibek required to know which action is morally superior given their current situation. They gain insight into the moment, and thus they obtain the freedom to take the morally superior action. Their anxiety and fear is reduced and they gain increased compassion for living things.

I would take issue with this, I have no fear and no anxiety, I have a huge compassion for all living things, that I try and implement in my life, and given the rock n roll life I had, its amazing the insight that gives, as well as the perception, I am not sure about morally superior action, I tend to go for the truthful action., yet I do not excel at meditation!

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Bhagat Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

Bhaji
I have already answered your first question in depth, in previous replies to this thread. Kindly read those replies and let me know if you have any questions or objections to it.

Is the above directed to me? If it is, then I am sorry to say, I do not see where you have answered it. I can see one Shabad in post#64 of yours but that does not answer my question.

Is there only one word or multiple ones that describe meditation in the SGGS?

Can you please elaborate it?

My other question.

Who has the benchmark meter to know the difference?

Your response:

One who excels at meditation gains the understanding and the bibek required to know which action is morally superior given their current situation. They gain insight into the moment, and thus they obtain the freedom to take the morally superior action. Their anxiety and fear is reduced and they gain increased compassion for living things.

So, are you trying to say, it is about meism where one decides by him/herself the level one is on?

The other way is to consult with someone who is morally superior than you, who excels at meditation, e.g. Guru Sahibs. The third is to consult books by such people e.g. Guru Granth Sahib.

What is the modus operandi for the above?
Is it in the SGGS, our only Guru?
Please post the shabads that confirm your claim.

Thanks

Tejwant Singh

 

[BhagatSingh]

All our posts are directed at everyone, that is the beauty of a forum, in any case, after much thinking, I am afraid its all 5 that I skip on a regular basis.

Sure. I just wanted to clarify.
You are welcome to comment on anything I post to anyone.

I would take issue with this, I have no fear and no anxiety, I have a huge compassion for all living things, that I try and implement in my life, and given the rock n roll life I had, its amazing the insight that gives, as well as the perception, I am not sure about morally superior action, I tend to go for the truthful action., yet I do not excel at meditation!

Your point?

 

[BhagatSingh]

Bhagat Singh ji,
Guru Fateh.
Is the above directed to me? If it is, then I am sorry to say, I do not see where you have answered it. I can see one Shabad in post#64 of yours but that does not answer my question.

Indeed I was replying your post.
I posted the definition multiple times in this thread.

Can you please elaborate it?
So, are you trying to say, it is about meism where one decides by him/herself the level one is on?
What is the modus operandi for the above?
Is it in the SGGS, our only Guru?

Let's go one by one.
Let's start with the definition of meditation. Let me know what your thoughts are on the definition I provided.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Bhagat Singh ji,

Guru Fateh,

The confusion occurred because you started your response by addressing 'Bhaji' and then you carried on with my name.

Would you be kind enough to share it again and also does Gurbani uses one word or multiple words for "meditation" as translated into English. If the latter is true, then do all those words in Gurmukhi mean the same- Meditation?

As you put it,

Let's go one by one.
Let's start with the definition of meditation. Let me know what your thoughts are on the definition I provided

Tejwant Singh

 

[japjisahib04]

ਗਿਆਨੀ ਗੁਰ ਬਿਨੁ ਭਗਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥ ਕੋਰੈ ਰੰਗੁ ਕਦੇ ਨ ਚੜੈ ਜੇ ਲੋਚੈ ਸਭੁ ਕੋਈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Without a coach, who can guide you, you cannot do meditation. Without that, the colour cannot be retained on the cloth.

So now we know Guru Sahib is saying that this person , who engages in falsehood, cannot do meditation. That a teacher is required, who can teach you the correct methods. A cloth that hasn't been treated deeply by a professional dyer cannot retain colour not matter how hard it tries. The dyer knows how to dye correctly, so consult him when you want your clothes dyed correctly.

Here's the basketball analogy again -
1. You need a coach to truly excel at basketball at a high level.
2. Just shooting paper balls in garbage bins, is not basketball.

Now I know where the basic difference in understanding the gurbani comes. The whole of gurbani moves around 'kiv sachiara hoeyea. You have interpreted 'ਗਿਆਨੀ' as couch whereas this is rahao pankti which is the central idea of the shabad and it is pointing towards myself as a first person. And guru sahib is addressing to my over confident manh as 'ਗਿਆਨੀ' and not to third person as coach. And 'ਭਗਤਿ' is with sihari thus is not meditation as you have translated but is bhagat avastha an exercise to transmit the message received from conscience to your indray and gian indray( ਮੇਰੈ ਮਨਿ ਐਸੀ ਭਗਤਿ ਬਨਿ ਆਈ ॥) If you agree with my understanding, please confirm

 

[Original]

Original what do oyu think about my translation and interpretation of it?
Did you find that it matched your experience of meditation?

Dear Bhagat Singh

Beautifully translated and interpreted [although, wider interpretations have been construed by other commentators] but yes, all in all, beautiful.

As regards matching meditation experiences, that's an exclusive zone, very much reserved for the individual. I once wrote jeevat maryia bhav jal teryia, and you wanted to know more. Well, Gur Ghar knew the art of dying [vacating the body]. I believe true seekers like you will come to know and experience - it's only a matter of time.

For reference, let me say in strict confidence to help advance individual seekers journey further, the soul does take to wings. Some of the wordings from pauri 34 to 37 of Jap Ji Sahib will begin to resonate with some of the experiences.

The butterfly knows nothing of the lift, wind speed, air resistance, vacuum, or indeed physics in general. This doesn't prevent it from flying because it was born to fly. Emerged from the cocoon with the ability to do something it could never understand. Similarly, the human soul takes to wings into the worlds from whence it came - journey home [jeevat maryia bhav jal teryia. Translation: die while alive n swim ocean of life].

Spiritual Sikhi is beautiful and I hope you will, through your aesthetic experience [painting] be able to better express the spiritual, the contemplative Sikh.

Goodnight

 

[BhagatSingh]

You have interpreted 'ਗਿਆਨੀ' as couch whereas this is rahao pankti which is the central idea of the shabad and it is pointing towards myself as a first person. And guru sahib is addressing to my over confident manh as 'ਗਿਆਨੀ' and not to third person as coach.

You are absolutely right. But you have to read further.

ਗਿਆਨੀ ਗੁਰ ਬਿਨੁ ਭਗਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥
Without a coach, who can guide you, you cannot do meditation.

I haven't translated Gyani as coach, because in that shabad Guru Sahib is calling an Agyani as Gyani. Which would require an entirely new thread to elaborate as to why he is doing that.

The people in the shabad are agyani because they don't have a guru, and (ਦਹ ਦਿਸਿ ਧਾਵੈ) are completely distracted, not meditating at all.

So I actually translated ਗੁਰ as coach. Guru is the teacher who teaches you how to do Bhagati/meditation. ਗੁਰ ਬਿਨੁ ਭਗਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਈ

And 'ਭਗਤਿ' is with sihari thus is not meditation as you have translated but is bhagat avastha

Absolutely. I am aware of that interpretation also, it's correct afaik. But as I replied to Ishna, this interpretation is the XYZ of meditation. When there are people who don't know the ABC, I don't find it particularly useful to go on about XYZ when ABC is yet to be understood. XYZ is completely out of reach for most people like that and it just gives them a false conception of what is being talked about.

However where I disagree with you, in your reply is that you are saying or implying that "the ABC of meditation is different from XYZ". I don't think it's taht different. and I think mosty people won't simply jump to XYZ, they need to go through ABCDEFGH... etc to get to XYZ. Only a rare few receive XYZ through Guru's grace or Parmatma's grace. Most people have to start from ABC.

If you are interested in discussing this point. We can take this discusion to a different thread or PMs if you so please.

an exercise to transmit the message received from conscience to your indray and gian indray

In that new thread/PM, you should also elaborate on what you mean by this statement. So we can discuss that too.

But yeah with regards to the other shabad, I confirm your post. It was nice to see it! As soon as I see Gurbani I jump to read it!

 

[BhagatSingh]

Original man. You are like a pool of cool water, an oasis in the desert. man nu shanti a jandi hai.
I mean I don't know how much gyan you have, I haven't spoken to you or observed you enough to be able to judge how much I can receive but I always enjoy your posts.
But I haven't done justice to them because I haven't really responded to them. (I did however take some time to read them all)

Beautifully translated and interpreted [although, wider interpretations have been construed by other commentators] but yes, all in all, beautiful.

Actually to be honest, that's not completely my interpretation. If you liked it then I won't take all the credit, the actual persons who helped me deserve some credit as well. If you really really liked it, then I won't take any credit then! Then you should consider it as if I didn't write it at all and go have a look at the people who actually interpreted it, and check out their work instead of my post!

As regards matching meditation experiences, that's an exclusive zone, very much reserved for the individual. I once wrote jeevat maryia bhav jal teryia, and you wanted to know more. Well, Gur Ghar knew the art of dying [vacating the body]. I believe true seekers like you will come to know and experience - it's only a matter of time.

Indeed! I would add Guru Ghar knew not only the art of dying. But the art of remaining dead, ie dying everyday, until you die completely and never come back (or only come back to do specific tasks).

Yesterday I actually went back to taht thread (where you said that) to read the posts you made after I left. maybe one day we can discuss more. I think it's best if in this thread we stick to the ABC, otherwise, we'll just lose people. If they don't already think we are lunatics, they will after we start going on about soul wings and such.

The butterfly knows nothing of the lift, wind speed, air resistance, vacuum, or indeed physics in general. This doesn't prevent it from flying because it was born to fly. Emerged from the cocoon with the ability to do something it could never understand.

This is very true. And this is actually how I got into meditation.

I haven't told you (or anyone else here, for that matter,) about myself that much. here's a little bit-

I used to be mostly atheist, ie I didn't know who Hari was/is/will be. So being the practical scientific kinda guy, I saw no evidence. Seeing no evidence, I thought it was the honest thing to do was to admit that He is not really there. At this time I was also quite materialistic and read The God Delusion and such books.

My dad who is currently chilling with Hari at the moment, used to point that out to me back then (that I had become materialistic) and I didn't quite understand him and his beliefs and waht he was saying... until much later... happy ending though because at that point our relationship deepened a lot because I began to understand what he was talking about and he began to understand me and we started to actually enjoy each other's company. anyway more on that later.

I mean I was meditating during the atheist, materialistic phase (was also painting Sikh history stuff, which I had to break from due to my phase) but I only meditated because I had met with scientific-type folks who did (heard of Sam Harris?) and read scientific papers about health benefits of meditation. I am Bio major, Psych minor. So for Psych classes I could make meditation papers a part of our assignments, that way I could read them and do my assignment at the same time!

So back then it was mostly to relax and recharge the brain, so just for the health benefits. but I did have a routine to try and get a good amount done. Like 20 minutes per day was my minimum goal. I noticed that if I did that and kept my diet and exercise in check, I felt great and pretty much always Chardi kala ready to handle anything, and I mean anything.

It wasn't until much later that I had this butterfly-type experience (that I think you are talking about). Where I didn't know I could "fly", but I did it anyway. Once I did it, it made complete sense which hadn't made sense prior to. That pretty much resulted in like a 100 paradigm shifts over a matter of months! mindblowing new knowledge, like a catterpillar learning to fly. What was the source? That was also there and I saw for myself, though this happened much much later.

I don't just enjoy spirituality through aesthetics. I mean I definitely enjoy it through that but one of the cool things about painting is that I can meditate while painting.

So it's constantly-
ਹਰਿ ਜਨ ਬੋਲਤ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮਾ ਮਿਲਿ ਸਾਧਸੰਗਤਿ ਹਰਿ ਤੋਰ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ The followers of Hari chant "Shri Ram" and in the company of advanced practitioners, they move towards Hari.

It's always on, I am always singing along while painting.

Spiritual Sikhi is beautiful and I hope you will, through your aesthetic experience [painting] be able to better express the spiritual, the contemplative Sikh.

Indeed. That's been a recent theme in my paintings of the Gurus (E.g. Guru Arjun Dev ji). I tried my best to depict meditation in that one, and accessing that pool, that is, Hari gives one a flow of cool drink while being burned alive. This is the greatness of our guru, Guru Arjun Dev ji.

I hope to do it even better and 1-up my previous work. If you have any particular thoughts about my paintings, would love to hear. I can take criticism as well. So let it rip.

 

[Original]

Original man. You are like a pool of cool water, an oasis in the desert. man nu shanti a jandi hai.
I mean I don't know how much gyan you have, I haven't spoken to you or observed you enough to be able to judge how much I can receive but I always enjoy your posts.
But I haven't done justice to them because I haven't really responded to them. (I did however take some time to read them all)

Actually to be honest, that's not completely my interpretation. If you liked it then I won't take all the credit, the actual persons who helped me deserve some credit as well. If you really really liked it, then I won't take any credit then! Then you should consider it as if I didn't write it at all and go have a look at the people who actually interpreted it, and check out their work instead of my post!



Indeed! I would add Guru Ghar knew not only the art of dying. But the art of remaining dead, ie dying everyday, until you die completely and never come back (or only come back to do specific tasks).

Yesterday I actually went back to taht thread (where you said that) to read the posts you made after I left. maybe one day we can discuss more. I think it's best if in this thread we stick to the ABC, otherwise, we'll just lose people. If they don't already think we are lunatics, they will after we start going on about soul wings and such.


This is very true. And this is actually how I got into meditation.

I haven't told you (or anyone else here, for that matter,) about myself that much. here's a little bit-

I used to be mostly atheist, ie I didn't know who Hari was/is/will be. So being the practical scientific kinda guy, I saw no evidence. Seeing no evidence, I thought it was the honest thing to do was to admit that He is not really there. At this time I was also quite materialistic and read The God Delusion and such books.

My dad who is currently chilling with Hari at the moment, used to point that out to me back then (that I had become materialistic) and I didn't quite understand him and his beliefs and waht he was saying... until much later... happy ending though because at that point our relationship deepened a lot because I began to understand what he was talking about and he began to understand me and we started to actually enjoy each other's company. anyway more on that later.

I mean I was meditating during the atheist, materialistic phase (was also painting Sikh history stuff, which I had to break from due to my phase) but I only meditated because I had met with scientific-type folks who did (heard of Sam Harris?) and read scientific papers about health benefits of meditation. I am Bio major, Psych minor. So for Psych classes I could make meditation papers a part of our assignments, that way I could read them and do my assignment at the same time!

So back then it was mostly to relax and recharge the brain, so just for the health benefits. but I did have a routine to try and get a good amount done. Like 20 minutes per day was my minimum goal. I noticed that if I did that and kept my diet and exercise in check, I felt great and pretty much always Chardi kala ready to handle anything, and I mean anything.

It wasn't until much later that I had this butterfly-type experience (that I think you are talking about). Where I didn't know I could "fly", but I did it anyway. Once I did it, it made complete sense which hadn't made sense prior to. That pretty much resulted in like a 100 paradigm shifts over a matter of months! mindblowing new knowledge, like a catterpillar learning to fly. What was the source? That was also there and I saw for myself, though this happened much much later.

I don't just enjoy spirituality through aesthetics. I mean I definitely enjoy it through that but one of the cool things about painting is that I can meditate while painting.

So it's constantly-
ਹਰਿ ਜਨ ਬੋਲਤ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮਾ ਮਿਲਿ ਸਾਧਸੰਗਤਿ ਹਰਿ ਤੋਰ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ The followers of Hari chant "Shri Ram" and in the company of advanced practitioners, they move towards Hari.

It's always on, I am always singing along while painting.


Indeed. That's been a recent theme in my paintings of the Gurus (E.g. Guru Arjun Dev ji). I tried my best to depict meditation in that one, and accessing that pool, that is, Hari gives one a flow of cool drink while being burned alive. This is the greatness of our guru, Guru Arjun Dev ji.

I hope to do it even better and 1-up my previous work. If you have any particular thoughts about my paintings, would love to hear. I can take criticism as well. So let it rip.

Good morning Bhagat Singh [05:57 UK]

Enjoyed reading your post, there is a lot more I have for you. SPN is a medium through which the "word" of Gur Ghar filters out to those who were "meant" to be the recipients.

We may never meet and you will never know who I am, but rest assure the word of Gur Ghar I share with you has all the ingredients.

I'm switching off for most of the day today because I've got business meetings in the North of England and will be back in London [home] early evening.

Let me leave you with this :

"....much of my creativity came from the fact that I looked for the hidden meaning behind every event in my life. I now look at every thing that happen to me and ask myself, if this event were a metaphor in the poem of my life and what it might mean ?.....I assume that behind every development is something else, something meaningful, a hidden gift, that if received with grace and used with reverence, invites me a step higher on my journey".


Bye for now !

 

[Harry Haller]

I would take issue with this, I have no fear and no anxiety, I have a huge compassion for all living things, that I try and implement in my life, and given the rock n roll life I had, its amazing the insight that gives, as well as the perception, I am not sure about morally superior action, I tend to go for the truthful action., yet I do not excel at meditation!

One who excels at meditation gains the understanding and the bibek required to know which action is morally superior given their current situation. They gain insight into the moment, and thus they obtain the freedom to take the morally superior action. Their anxiety and fear is reduced and they gain increased compassion for living things.

The other way is to consult with someone who is morally superior than you, who excels at meditation, e.g. Guru Sahibs. The third is to consult books by such people e.g. Guru Granth Sahib.

Your point?

so where in your three ways do I fit in? Is it possible there are more ways to achieve the above? why do you feel you have the monopoly on the path?
I also note you have answered none of my questions so far, so is it just rhetoric?

 

[Ishna]

Ishna can you read gurmukhi? If you can, I would suggest you try to abandom the english translations and start working from raw Gurmukhi. There's a dictionary on Srigranth.org that connects to Mahan Kosh (the great dictionary) and it's wicked.


In a nutshell -
The finding is 'oneness'. Oneness is what we are testing, to see if it exists.
The method is 'meditation'.

You can check out the Yog Sutra of Patanjali, that I linked earlier, for more on that.


Tool - that word is key. Because tool means that it gives us leverage, like a hammer. Yea fasting is also a tool.

This reminds me of that shabad by Guru Nanak Dev ji. Here he is giving people advice on how to meditate.
He is actually describing the meditation process as if it were done with a bunch of tools.

Let's see what he is saying.

ਜਤੁ ਪਾਹਾਰਾ ਧੀਰਜੁ ਸੁਨਿਆਰੁ ॥
(ਜਤੁ) Ability to Withdraw the Five Senses from the world is the (ਪਾਹਾਰਾ) Workshop.
(ਧੀਰਜੁ) Patience is the (ਸੁਨਿਆਰੁ) Goldsmith.

ਅਹਰਣਿ ਮਤਿ ਵੇਦੁ ਹਥੀਆਰੁ ॥
(ਮਤਿ) Intellligence is the (ਅਹਰਣਿ) Anvil.
(ਵੇਦੁ) Vedas - listening to spiritual texts - is the (ਹਥੀਆਰੁ) Hammer.

ਭਉ ਖਲਾ ਅਗਨਿ ਤਪ ਤਾਉ ॥
Blow through the (ਖਲਾ) Pipe (ਭਉ ) the Fear of God, and increase the heat of the (ਅਗਨਿ) Fire.
This is called (ਤਪ) Tapasaya.

ਭਾਂਡਾ ਭਾਉ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਤਿਤੁ ਢਾਲਿ ॥ ਘੜੀਐ ਸਬਦੁ ਸਚੀ ਟਕਸਾਲ ॥
In the (ਭਾਂਡਾ) container of (ਭਾਉ) Love - your heart - (ਤਿਤੁ ਢਾਲਿ) pour in the molten gold - (ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ) Amrit.

Amrit needs a bit of an elaboration here because there is no substitute word in English. Amrit means A - non, Mrityu - Death. It means non-death, non-dying. It is referring to the subjective, the qualitative state of eternity.

Imagine eternity not as a quantitative state, not as in - "How many years?" - that's quantity.
But rather as a qualitative state, as in - "How long is 1 minute?" - that's quality.

The word Boredom comes somewhat close. For example, when you are bored in class, the clock seems to be ticking a lot slower. So Amrit is like a sweet, joyful boredom. The clock ticks slower, as if it were eternity.


ਘੜੀਐ ਸਬਦੁ ਸਚੀ ਟਕਸਾਲ ॥
(Take this Amrit and pour it into the mould of Love) and mint the Gold coins of your guru's words - his or her instructions.

ਜਿਨ ਕਉ ਨਦਰਿ ਕਰਮੁ ਤਿਨ ਕਾਰ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਨਦਰੀ ਨਦਰਿ ਨਿਹਾਲ ॥੩੮॥
Those who are looked upon kindly by their guru, they find out how to do this method. And when they apply the method, they are liberated.

I can read Gurmukhi and I have a couple of resources for translating it. I agree, srigranth's resources are great!

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What you have is the practise of yoga and meditation and the resulting sensation.

For you to call this science you must have the following:

1. A clear definition of this sensation
2. A clear and falsifiable hypothesis as to what this sensation is
3. A method of testing that your hypothesis is the correct explanation for the sensation
4. An examination of other possible explanations for the sensation
5. An explanation as to why your hypothesis is the better than the others

And all this must be done ONLY using the practises of yoga and meditation.

Please keep in mind I'm not arguing against oneness and the value of practices to realise and live in that state of oneness. I'm just saying that meditation/yoga shouldn't be called something it is not (a science), or else it is open to a level of scrutiny it would fail to satisfy. All because it's not 'science' doesn't mean it is any less real, practical or applicable . And calling it 'science' does not give it any more credibility.

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And just because I like to stir things up sometimes, I note that meditation and yoga and conspicuously absent from Guru Nanak's workshop, even though you say he is describing the meditation process.

Your translation of the word jat(u) [ਜਤੁ] here is fascinating. Also, I really appreciate your interpretation of amrit. I've never head it put that way, it's quite beautiful and is logically consistent with Gurbani as a whole. 10/10

Now I want to discuss more about the Gold Coins we should mint, and more about the Guru looking kindly upon us (nadar).

But first, can you talk more about how this 38th paurhi of Jap Ji Sahib on panna 8 is actually describing the meditation process, please?

I'm enjoying learning from you, thanks for sharing.