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Sects Yogi Bhajan And 3HO

singhini

SPNer
Mar 28, 2009
11
18
I have found this discussion very interesting to read. Thank you to all who have contributed.

In my humble opinion Yogi Bhajan introduced people to a more healthier lifestyle than one they were currently experiencing. Through the yoga, nitnem and daily banis people find the way towards the guru. To attaining good physical health, mental discipline and spiritual peace.

It may not be perfect but surely its a step in the right direction :thumbup:
 

ballym

SPNer
May 19, 2006
260
335
To attaining good physical health, mental discipline and spiritual peace.

It may not be perfect but surely its a step in the right direction :thumbup:
yes, instead of crying foul and go against flow, mix with flow and purify it to the extent of your contribution.
 
Nov 14, 2010
79
90
Re: Yogi Bajan and 3HO

Hello Coetgan ji,

Yet he has made a strong and mostly positive impact on the world.

Admittedly I couldn't see your face at the moment you typed that but... you're completely serious aren't you? You actually said that with a straight face?

Wait so... using that logic, serial killer Dennis Rader (more commonly known as BTK) had "a strong and mostly positive impact on the world" because hey -- sure, maybe he killed 10 people and tortured several animals, but he was a good husband and father, a hard worker, a regular church-goer, served as President of his Church Council, was a Cub Scout Leader, raised his son to be an Eagle Scout, and put his daughter through college.

What a great guy!

(snippage)
After these adventures in spiritual systems, I am more inclined to be tolerant of Yogi Bhajan's style.

*Style*? You think this is about his STYLE?

"Sexual assault" is not a "style." It's a crime.

"Bilking elderly people out of their life savings" to support your taste in fancy cars and expensive jewelry is not a "style." It's a crime.

It's probably a lot easier to be "tolerant of Yogi Bhajan's style" when he's not forcing himself on you sexually or sending your 9-year-old child off to India against your will or yelling at you for having the audacity to give voice to your opinion or clocking you across the face for the crime of being his wife.

It seems more important to observe whether a teaching or teacher works for those who follow him/her/it, than concern ourselves on whether it is right according to some morality we ascribe to.

I'm sorry, but no. This is not some obscure, esoteric moral code we're talking about that is only observed in the Hadza people living in a remote corner of central east Africa.

Rape is NEVER okay.

Beating your wife? NEVER okay.

Treating your followers as indentured servants and even slaves? NEVER okay.

Dividing otherwise happily married couples? NEVER okay.

Sending minor children to live on the other side of the world apart from their parents against the parents' wishes, though the parents are good parents and have no reason to be deprived of their children? NEVER okay.

Using one's power as a religious leader to mislead, manipulate, and control people? NEVER EVER okay.

What is there to argue about?

Oh, gosh -- lots. But we can start with just the things I've named there above for now. swordfight

The rigid interpretation of the "correct" way to live or appreciate the divine that is immanent in this world, is simply a game of the mind. All practices exist to encourage and empower us to become more truly who we are already. Who we are is not religious, and has no particular culture or practices. The truth reveals itself moment by moment. Those who claim to know truth, and quote scriptures of any kind, just create confusion, vainly attempting to control a world that is beyond our ability to "know". Perhaps Yogi Bhajan is exactly the right teacher for many people, even as he is not the right teacher for others.

Here is my thought: Yogi Bhajan is like the chemical compound strychnine. In small and/or infrequent or highly filtered doses, it may appear to do you some good -- trace amounts of strychnine in human systems can act as a stimulant or a laxative. In any case, those trace amounts will not do you any long-term damage, but in large or unfiltered doses, or in doses that occur with great frequency, the risk of lasting harm increases dramatically.

So...really, your saying that he was the right teacher for anybody, in light of the harmful and egotistical behaviors he engaged in? That makes you an enabler of that harm. You are reinjuring everyone he has victimized when you become his apologist in this forum or any other. Is that really a role you're interested in playing? Especially for a criminal who was lucky enough to not get busted before he died?

You are correct to look for the truth and do your own research. From what you say, you do not need to seek a teacher at all. The guru is within, the scholars on this site will affirm that. At times we may need an outer guru, and certain practices may or may not be helpful. Who's to say?

The people who have been irreparably harmed by this charlatan. THAT is who's to say.

We already know the truth, but it hides in the very search for the Truth. We know our way, but slick salesmen from the deluded society in which we live have sold us other truths, which lead us away from our Selves.
My two cents.

And there was no salesman more slick or, I daresay, sociopathic than Yogi Bhajan. Please. I respectfully request that you discontinue saying or doing anything that even comes close to sounding like you're making an excuse for the things this man did. It is an insult to everyone he has harmed.
 
May 24, 2008
546
887
Though I agree with a lot of points raised by Sri kamala Ji , but Yogi Bhajan's followers are doing a great job with Sikhnet , Sikhiwiki , Sikhnet radio , Sikhnet Radio on Android ( thanks to which I am able to hear all the world Gurudwaras live ) . I was amongst the bitter opponenets of 3HO but seeing the positives they are making I feel they are contributing positively . they are NOT introducing their own Bani like Radha Soamis , Nirankaris & whole lot of others. Except for their FANATIC defense of Yoga ( which is not acceptable as per Gurbani ) , Vegetarianism & Sant Singh Khalsa Consensus translation (which is RUBBISH at best) I find very positive things they are doing.
 

findingmyway

Writer
SPNer
Aug 17, 2010
1,665
3,778
World citizen!
I understand people wanting to be fair to the 3HO organization so perhaps debating the personality of the founder is not the best way forward. However, on ideological grounds, I see 3HO as no different to radhaswami, nirankari's or any other sect. They used Sikhism to draw people in then separate off with their own set of ideologies and rehit. Sherab ji's posts tackled this to some extent. All these groups do some good work and all of these groups also distort Gurbani for their own ends. All these groups are personality based where the personality takes over the Guru Granth Sahib ji in importance. All these groups are sects-nothing more, nothing less. If they are brave enough they will stand on their own 2 feet and not hide behind the veil of Sikhism.
 
Nov 14, 2010
79
90
Jasleen ji (findingmyway), you make good points. Here is where I continue to get stuck though...

I am reading Dr. Trilochan Singh's expose on his interaction with YB and 3HO and I guess what I find most disturbing is that there was little or nothing about Yogi Bhajan or his teachings that was remotely rooted in Sikhi other than his being born into a Sikh family and he told some people that what he was practicing and teaching them was part and parcel of Sikh practice.

Not only does the testimony of Premka Kaur Khalsa (Pamela Dyson) indicate that his teachings barely touched on matters of Sikh faith or the wisdom of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, but this conversation between YB and Dr. Singh would indicate that YB freely admitted it was never about the Sikh faith for him so much as it was about perpetuating the "brand" of White Tantric yoga he had created.

Dr. Singh ji wrote:
We met in what is known as Ahimsa Ashram of the 3HO. I was offered a chair while Yogi Bhajan sat on the mattress, looking sick and ailing. I have recorded the details of this talk in my U.S.A. Memoirs. The closed door talks which lasted for about three hours can be summed up thus: (1) Yogi Bhajan was absolutely frank in what he said and I believe every word of it. I asked him Is Sikhism the core of his teachings of Tantric Yoga? Which of these two contradictory disciplines is his basic philosophy? To this question he perhaps honestly replied that Tantra (White as he calls it) is his basic faith while Sikhism is only an off-shoot of his Tantric system. The reason he gave was that he believed Sikhism has no meditation techniques. I told him that Sikhism has more specific, fruitful, and spiritually exalting techniques of meditation, but his misfortune is that he has never studied Siri Guru Granth Sahib, and never cared to live according to Sikh Discipline. He frankly and sadly confessed that when he went to India in 1970 with 84 Americans, 80 left him because Nirlep Kaur lowered his prestige by insulting him everywhere. All except four Americans (which include his Secretaries Premka, Krishna, etc.) left him.

(snip)
It is a standing shame to the whole Sikh community that all this Tantric nonsense is being poured down the throat of innocent American seekers of Truth in the name of Sikhism, and this is being done by him after assuming the titles of Siri Singh Sahib and unacknowledged authority over the Sikhs in the Western Hemisphere.

That just made me shudder... :scared:

If I was born to ranchers on a farm in Texas, but I never really herded cattle or rode the range mending barbed wire fences, or lassoed a steer...though I could probably talk about these things based on things I've seen and heard back home...

And then I go off to India and put on chaps and a cowboy hat and start telling people in India who don't really know much (if anything) about cowboys that I'm going to teach them how to be good ranchers and cowboys, and part of that is that they have to put on white cowboy hats and wear white cowboy boots and white jeans, and sit around a campfire and sing cowboy songs while looking at a picture of me. And then beyond that I tell them that all good ranchers and cowboys are good jazz dancers*, and that in order to be true ranchers and cowboys, they must become so good at jazz dance that they can *teach* it to others in the name of having *them* become good cowboys... and I set up a whole jazz dance studio business called Cowpokes Unto Perpetuity (where we also sell Curried Cowpoke Baked Beans). Oh, and as it suits me, I occasionally grope and sexually accost my staff and get them to submit to it by telling them it will improve their dance skills and make them better cowboys...

*For anyone unfamiliar w/ jazz dance and/or American Cowboy culture, the joke there being that cowboys DO dance, but they do a Texas Two Step or a Cotton-eyed Joe, but they don't generally get into jazz dance steps...

Does that make me a genuine cowboy? :a37:

Does it make me anything that even remotely resembles a cowboy?

Or does it make me the equivalent of a sort of morally corrupt John Wayne, because I'm dressed up like a cowboy, and I play one in front of other people for money, but unlike John Wayne, I do this in a way that is ego-centered, exploitative, and harmful to others?

I'd be willing to give him at least *some* credit if there was any evidence whatsoever that he truly believed himself to be a Sikh and *wanted* to be a good Sikh, and that he was studying the words of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji with sincere good intent, and was truly able to teach people about the beauty of what it has to say. But based on everything he has said and everything I have read, he not only wasn't really teaching it, he wasn't even *familiar* with its words -- he'd just randomly find a passage to use and then make stuff up about what it meant, often saying things that were a complete distortion of what it was actually intended to communicate.

So... jeeminy... to me that would indicate he was no more a Sikh than he was a cowboy (and I'm generally the last person to be picking on anyone for "not being spiritually up-to-snuff," but even *I* have to draw the line somewhere...) I guess I'm surprised that anyone could read what Dr. Singh ji wrote and not be unnerved and disturbed by it sufficiently to call YB what he really was -- a charlatan and a criminal.

Mind you, there are a lot of Christian televangelists out there who live in fancy houses and ride around in $500,000 automobiles and wear expensive jewelry. I find it a little creepy and not really in keeping what Jesus taught, but so long as they're not hurting or exploiting anyone, breaking any laws, or completely distorting what the Bible says for their own purposes, I have no problem with their doing what they do. The same cannot be said of YB when he was alive. I know he's been gone several years now, but his organization still perpetuates a lot of the same non-Sikh tantric/kundalini nonsense that he preached without ever being intellectually, emotionally, spiritually, or factually honest with themselves or anyone else about what this man was really, ultimately about: his own ego.

As we say Down South, you can put lipstick and perfume on a hog, but at the end of the day, it's still a hog... :a36:
 

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
SPNer
Jun 17, 2004
14,500
19,219
Siri Kamala ji

You have raised complex issues, and there are many of them to address. There are perhaps 2 sources that thoughtfully examine the controversial side of Yogi Bhajan. Only two Internet sources would I consider worth pursuing. One of them is the e-book by Tarlochan Singh that you have referenced. The other is an interview by Vikram Singh found on a blog - apologies but I don't have the link at this minute - who left 3HO and remains to this day a devout practicing Sikh.


The rickross site compiles testimony but does not analyze it or evaluate it for its accuracy, reliability or vested interest of writers. That gives it the tone of The Drudge Report in a way, because sensational writing, by people with an act to grind and no one to cross-examine the witnesses, tends to be the order of the day at that site. Of course that is my personal reaction. But my own tendency is always to question sources that have the stated mission to rake up mud.

Even if there were no stories of financial misdeeds or sexual claims against him, Yogi Bhajan would indeed still be teaching a variation of Sikhism that is heavily influenced by sanatan teachings and practices. He would not be alone in that regard as there are several traditions within Sikhism - sampardyan - that retain significant elements of Vedic influences. For example, the Nirmalas and even our beloved Nihangs. Yogi Bhajan's biography in India is instructive in this regard as he studied with individuals influenced by sanatan philosophies.
 
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