A Sikh Without His Flowing Hair And Turban

[buddhushah]

.

To your mind, what is that job?

with due respects to all=
[hath pav te kam kar chit niranjan naal];[kar har karam sarvan har katha har dargah nanak ujwal matha];[jat pahara dheeraj suniaar, ahran mat ved hathiyaar ,bhau khala agan tap tau, bhanda bhau amrit *** dhaal, ghariye shabad sachi taksaal, jin kau nadar karam tin kaar, nanak nadri nadar nihaal] simply saying/as per my mind -read,try to under stand,analyse , try to put into practise-[hukam rajayee chalna nanak likhya naal][karam karat hove nih karam tis baishno ka nirmal dharam]and i am still in the process of taking tiny baby steps.

 

[japjisahib04]

with due respects to all=
[hath pav te kam kar chit niranjan naal];[kar har karam sarvan har katha har dargah nanak ujwal matha];[jat pahara dheeraj suniaar, ahran mat ved hathiyaar ,bhau khala agan tap tau, bhanda bhau amrit *** dhaal, ghariye shabad sachi taksaal, jin kau nadar karam tin kaar, nanak nadri nadar nihaal] simply saying/as per my mind -read,try to under stand,analyse , try to put into practise-[hukam rajayee chalna nanak likhya naal][karam karat hove nih karam tis baishno ka nirmal dharam]and i am still in the process of taking tiny baby steps.

During my last interaction with a so called learned doctor, the discussion ended with the sabd, 'bhavey lambay kesh kar bhavey ghardh mundhai - sikhi is all from within thus either keep long hair or shave them off, it does not matter and I noticed most of the time he uses this sabd and feels relax. I started wondering when sikhi is all about surrendering to hukam and Hairs are part of that Hukam, then why would gurbani suggest us to either discard them or keep, it does not matter. Thus I started contemplating on this sabd and the one earlier sabd and was wondering about the context of the sabd.

First thing, I noticed the word, 'bhavey' does it contain a 'bindi' that we are interpreting it as 'either' or does it mean 'to appreciate - bhavey' or whosoever likes to merge in divine wisdom. Similarly we need to see what does bhagat kabeer means by 'kesh' through his other sabds. Like when he says, 'manh mundia nahi kesh mundhai kaheh - without listening the divine message how can one make his thought process pious. So it is grooming of mind that bhagat jee is referring and not shaving the body hair. Thus with this understanding I started decoding the meaning of 'lambai kesh and ghard mundai' - grooming thought process as pious by listening to divine wisdom, if we really want to eliminate the demon thought process.

best regards
sahni

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Sahni Ji..
I agree.
But what these proponents of "KESHREMOVAL" trying to prove in that Bhagat kabir Ji Shabad is totally OUT of context.

The CONTEXT is as follows.

In Hinduism there are TWO ways to exhibit "religiousness" "piety".
1. is by Keeping LONG HAIR...these types of religious/pious SADHUS with Long matted hair beards can be seen at any hindu Festival..esp the Kumbh mela .

2. There is another group who DONT KEEP Long hair..quite the opposite they PULL OUT HAIRS BY THE ROOTS..and RUB ASHES to KILL the hair roots. (GHARRARR MUNDAI)

These are also mentioned by GURU NANAK JI in His bani as USELESS and WORTHLESS "sons" who are of no use to their families..fathers..Mothers.. (needed to set the cremation pyre alight at death but since they have left home this is not done)..and also Worthless to SOCIETY as they wander around begging and not doing any social responsibility earning etc. They think solely GHARARR MUNDAI they are pious.

THESE TWO GROUPS are being REJECTED BY KABIR JI ( also by Gurus sahibs esp Guru nanak ji )..as they do the actions _keep matted hair or kill hair by the roots _ in order to EXHIBIT PIETY. Kabir ji says the MANN and NOT the Body is the one that needs to be PIOUS.

3. The SIKH context of Keeping Long Hair - CLEAN and washed, OILED regularly, COMBED twice daily, tied neatly in joorra, covered respectfully by DASTAAR etc is part and aprcel fo the MARYADA...DISCIPLINE of the KHALSA. Its NOT to exhibit PIETY..or any such thing.
So the Kabir Gurbani DOESNT APPLY HERE. GURBANI now here states that merely keeping kesh automatically showers piety on one...this is just and simply an exercise in OBEYING HUKM...HUKM RAZAII CHALLNNA....first step.

 

[japjisahib04]

Giani Ji

I understand your point, but my understanding is based on gurbani. I could be wrong also.

Let us take another pankti of Bhagat kabir Jee and also from Guru Arjan jee, ''ਹਾਡ ਜਲੇ ਜੈਸੇ ਲਕਰੀ ਕਾ ਤੂਲਾ ॥ due to my strong fire of desire, the structure of my body built with strong bones erodes and is burning like wood and 'ਕੇਸ ਜਲੇ ਜੈਸੇ ਘਾਸ ਕਾ ਪੂਲਾ ॥੨॥ and ‘kesh’ - my intelligence is wanning out like grass day by day making me almost hypocrate or criminal. As you know in gurbani 'kesh' is a symbol of intelligence, 'ਗੁਰ ਕੇ ਚਰਨ ਕੇਸ ਸੰਗਿ ਝਾਰੇ ॥੧ SGGS.387.12.

Best regards
sahni

 

[kanwaljs]

During my last interaction with a so called learned doctor, the discussion ended with the sabd, 'bhavey lambay kesh kar bhavey ghardh mundhai - sikhi is all from within thus either keep long hair or shave them off, it does not matter and I noticed most of the time he uses this sabd and feels relax. I started wondering when sikhi is all about surrendering to hukam and Hairs are part of that Hukam, then why would gurbani suggest us to either discard them or keep, it does not matter. Thus I started contemplating on this sabd and the one earlier sabd and was wondering about the context of the sabd.

First thing, I noticed the word, 'bhavey' does it contain a 'bindi' that we are interpreting it as 'either' or does it mean 'to appreciate - bhavey' or whosoever likes to merge in divine wisdom. Similarly we need to see what does bhagat kabeer means by 'kesh' through his other sabds. Like when he says, 'manh mundia nahi kesh mundhai kaheh - without listening the divine message how can one make his thought process pious. So it is grooming of mind that bhagat jee is referring and not shaving the body hair. Thus with this understanding I started decoding the meaning of 'lambai kesh and ghard mundai' - grooming thought process as pious by listening to divine wisdom, if we really want to eliminate the demon thought process.

best regards
sahni

'bhavey lambay kesh kar bhavey ghardh mundha' Here the meaning of 'Lambey Kesh kar means, don't increase your kesh just like 'jataieny', as some Yogies do. Keep the hairs in natural ways and keep them clean. Guru Nanak says, 'Balihari kudrat vasiya, Tera ant na jayi lakhiya'. Kesh kudrat ney hi grow kitey han, kesh jitni baar katto utni bar fer aa jandey han, es da matlab key Rabb di pakki marzi hai key ensaan keshadhari hovey. Pakki marzi wali gall vi Guru Nanak Sahib ess tarah keh rahey han, key 'Akalpurukh da Bhana man na chahida hai', atey 'Akalpurukh da hukam vi man na chahida hai'.

 

[palaingtha]

It's a lifestyle choice and, as long as it isn't harming anyone else, no-one has the right to ridicule or make snide remarks about people who make that choice.

I see a surprising amount of intolerance coming from a people who originally built their reputation on the back of tolerance and acceptance.

Have you ever thought that it is perhaps this exact kind of scolding and stuck-up attitude towards "how it should be" that is driving people away - if, of course, that is the case.

I do not agree with you.
Let us take the case of members of associations like, professionals, Doctors, Accountants, Lawyers or political parties. Every association has its rules and regulation. Its members have to abide by the ethics prescribed by the concerned association. If any member breaches it he has to apologize and amend his future actions and if his action could not be condoned he is expelled from that association.
Likewise when a Sikh cuts his hair he is declared a PATIT and excommunicated from the Panth. If he trims or shaves partially he is asked by his elders or near and dears to abide by Sikh Maryada.
It is not any type scolding which drives one to shaving off his hair. Either he has fallen in bad company or he has seen some one shaving off and nobody criticized him or he had to face any sort of hardships like snide remarks or ridiculed by others and, thus he got encouraged. In Sikh households it should be made clear to the children that the family is not going to tolerate anything like what so and so has done(shaved off hair) and that person shall be denounced whenever his name crops up in discussions.
In a few lines I will tell my story. In Burma, where I lived, during end of II World War one Sikh, a Government official, said that times are changing fast. We used to greet each other with salutation "Wahe Guru Ji Ka Khalsa Wahe Guru Ji Ki Fateh", but now people greet each other by salutation with a finger. Times are changing, before we used to travel on foot, cart or cycles. Now by cars and air planes. By the time we say "Wahe Guru Ji........." the man greeted is far out of hearing. Sikhs will shed their hairs and there will be no Sikh by end of the century.
Hearing this I pledged that in such a situation I would be the last Sikh living in my Sikhi form. My son some day heard this episode when he was about 7-8 years and he now says he will be the last Sikh living should this impossible situation arises.

 

[kds1980]

I do not agree with you.

Likewise when a Sikh cuts his hair he is declared a PATIT and excommunicated from the Panth. If he trims or shaves partially he is asked by his elders or near and dears to abide by Sikh Maryada.
It is not any type scolding which drives one to shaving off his hair. Either he has fallen in bad company or he has seen some one shaving off and nobody criticized him or he had to face any sort of hardships like snide remarks or ridiculed by others and, thus he got encouraged. In Sikh households it should be made clear to the children that the family is not going to tolerate anything like what so and so has done(shaved off hair) and that person shall be denounced whenever his name crops up in discussions.

In other words you are suggesting that sikhs should threaten or blackmail their children to keep their hair.And on this very same site we hear how sikhi is by choice , and it modern , liberal religion

 

[buddhushah]

I do not agree with you.
Let us take the case of members of associations like, professionals, Doctors, Accountants, Lawyers or political parties. Every association has its rules and regulation. Its members have to abide by the ethics prescribed by the concerned association. If any member breaches it he has to apologize and amend his future actions and if his action could not be condoned he is expelled from that association.
Likewise when a Sikh cuts his hair he is declared a PATIT and excommunicated from the Panth. If he trims or shaves partially he is asked by his elders or near and dears to abide by Sikh Maryada.
It is not any type scolding which drives one to shaving off his hair. Either he has fallen in bad company or he has seen some one shaving off and nobody criticized him or he had to face any sort of hardships like snide remarks or ridiculed by others and, thus he got encouraged. In Sikh households it should be made clear to the children that the family is not going to tolerate anything like what so and so has done(shaved off hair) and that person shall be denounced whenever his name crops up in discussions.
In a few lines I will tell my story. In Burma, where I lived, during end of II World War one Sikh, a Government official, said that times are changing fast. We used to greet each other with salutation "Wahe Guru Ji Ka Khalsa Wahe Guru Ji Ki Fateh", but now people greet each other by salutation with a finger. Times are changing, before we used to travel on foot, cart or cycles. Now by cars and air planes. By the time we say "Wahe Guru Ji........." the man greeted is far out of hearing. Sikhs will shed their hairs and there will be no Sikh by end of the century.
Hearing this I pledged that in such a situation I would be the last Sikh living in my Sikhi form. My son some day heard this episode when he was about 7-8 years and he now says he will be the last Sikh living should this impossible situation arises.

Respectfull sir,sikhi is to be lived and died for,out of sheer love,that is sincere ,humble and honest.please do not trade it on pledges,etc.[it was never supposed to be,] Dear max,identities are important .let aside their idealogical values/basis.a chef without his cap,a judge without his,police officer in tees,a man in forces without his colours etc . here it is a case of AKAL PURAKH KI FAUJ.when you enter a fold,you abide by its rules ,you may like some . Palaingtha ji,your zeal ,discipline ,sincerity,enthusiasm at this age is adorable and praiseworthy .my humble respects to you.and respectable.

 

[palaingtha]

Brother,
I would rather think it is you who is insecure because you are doing exactly the same thing, writing a long post without a single fact and beating around the bush. Isn't that so...?

A jaundiced eye sees only yellow all around.

 

[palaingtha]

Respectfull sir,sikhi is to be lived and died for,out of sheer love,that is sincere ,humble and honest.please do not trade it on pledges,etc.[it was never supposed to be,]

What you have posted is meaningless. One has to be committed, determined to live a life of Sikh come what may. That amounts to pledge. It is a well ingrained decision. What is wrong in that. Don't find faults if you have nothing to say better.
If all the Sikhs who have cut their hair make a determined commitment and pledge that they would return to Sikh fold what a happy day for the Panth that would be.

 

[Harry Haller]

If all the Sikhs who have cut their hair make a determined commitment and pledge that they would return to Sikh fold what a happy day for the Panth that would be.

but surely you would then have a panth consisting of people that looked like Sikhs but did not behave like Sikhs or even think like Sikhs.

Personally I think it quite dangerous to have people running loose who think they are Sikhs, who look like Sikhs, but behave with little or no grace.