A Sikh Without His Flowing Hair And Turban

[truthseeker]

Thank You Veerji Thruthseeker,

I enjoyed reading when you said,
"WHY TRY TO FIT IN WHEN YOU WERE BORN TO STAND OUT".
Why then, we still do this?
Are we suffering from an inferiority complex, or are we thinking that the only way to have fun and acceptance is by cutting our hair. We can put blame to many issues for this, but never ourselves.....I wonder why? Have we become weak and brainwashed. Has trying to fit in become a model for acceptance. These are trying times...I believe in patience with contemplation will resolve this problem.

God Bless.

Waheguru ji ka khalsa, Waheguru ji ki fateh

I find that in todays world trying to " fit in" is almost like second nature to us. And yes, maybe by cutting our hair we will be more excepted.. but what is the point? If we can not please our Guru what does it matter what we accomplish in this life time?
But I dunno, sometimes i think that we should just leave it. If someone does not understand that this Kakaar, this Gift from Akal Purakh is important, then they should not be forced to keep it either right? They will not respect it in any way, shape or form. If hair is just another thing that you happen to have, and dont really see the point of it... then why should they have it.
I know this may sound odd, coming from an amritdharee sikh, but we have to look at the fact that not all people are as blessed as we are to be as far along the path as others. Some people may not have this understanding.
I guess this is Maya in yet another form, trying to take over us mind, soul, and body. Once that have been overtaken, keeping kes, and following Guru Sahib's teachings will not even be problem, they will become like second nature to us.
Bhul Chuk maaf karni

( P.S. Gurcharan ji.... im a Singhni :}: )

 

[Archived_Member_19]

it is simple

sikhism is a religion

and being sikh is a state of mind.... two totally different concept

 

[Archived_Member_19]

<If we can not please our Guru what does it matter what we accomplish in this life time?>

where the bani says so?


also i donot think God is bothered with my cutting hair.... i cut my toe nails also...they bloody keep growing so fast..... if God isn't bothered with that..they why with hair?

 

[Gurcharan]

it is simple

sikhism is a religion

and being sikh is a state of mind.... two totally different concept

Dear Veerji,

What state of mind are you talking about???????

God Bless

 

[Gurcharan]

<If we can not please our Guru what does it matter what we accomplish in this life time?>

where the bani says so?


also i donot think God is bothered with my cutting hair.... i cut my toe nails also...they bloody keep growing so fast..... if God isn't bothered with that..they why with hair?

Dear Veerji,

So you are saying that being a sikh or following Khalsa way of life...keeping the 5 Ks is not important to a sikh? I wonder why then our 10th Guru ask us to keep them.
Your statement is a-typical..why blame yourself when you have the merciful God to blame on.

God Bless

 

[Gurcharan]

Waheguru ji ka khalsa, Waheguru ji ki fateh

I find that in todays world trying to " fit in" is almost like second nature to us. And yes, maybe by cutting our hair we will be more excepted.. but what is the point? If we can not please our Guru what does it matter what we accomplish in this life time?
But I dunno, sometimes i think that we should just leave it. If someone does not understand that this Kakaar, this Gift from Akal Purakh is important, then they should not be forced to keep it either right? They will not respect it in any way, shape or form. If hair is just another thing that you happen to have, and dont really see the point of it... then why should they have it.
I know this may sound odd, coming from an amritdharee sikh, but we have to look at the fact that not all people are as blessed as we are to be as far along the path as others. Some people may not have this understanding.
I guess this is Maya in yet another form, trying to take over us mind, soul, and body. Once that have been overtaken, keeping kes, and following Guru Sahib's teachings will not even be problem, they will become like second nature to us.
Bhul Chuk maaf karni

( P.S. Gurcharan ji.... im a Singhni :}: )

God Bless Thruthseeker,

Let me first apologise about the gender mix. No disrespect intended.

I felt the sad and hands-up tone of your message. Dear Sister, life is full of surprises, don't be dismayed at what you see around. And do not think it is not impt as to what we accomplish in this lifetime.Let me just say that we may forget temporarily what our Guru Ji has said, but Guru Ji will never forsake us or stop loving us.
I bless the day I was born a Sikh.I shall remain a Sikh so long as time remains.I know of no other life than being my Guru Ji's Sikh. I shall remain a Sikh and not remain, if I am not.

God Bless.

 

[Veeru]

I agree with achieving a state of mind. Taking Amrit should help us stay in discipline, which should further help achieve that state. However, even for that, one needs to have the right perception of taking Amrit, which most people appear not to have, the right perception, that it.

Since I am not at that state of mind, I can't say for sure whether or not taking Amrit is the only way to help us achieve that state. But I am pretty sure Amrit is a way to achieve that state but we need to have the right perception, which appears to have been lost among most Sikhs today. This isn't gurus' fault, nor it is Amrit's fault.

 

[Archived_Member_19]

<<What state of mind are you talking about???????>>

Guru Nanak has described it quite well in his bani...i am too small a person to try to translate it here... would recommend that you go to the source and find out...

<<So you are saying that being a sikh or following Khalsa way of life...keeping the 5 Ks is not important to a sikh? I wonder why then our 10th Guru ask us to keep them.>>

you are once again confusing between being a sikh and following the Khalsa way of life... two are different... one sets no boundaries to what to do or what not to do...
other is a perfect example of a religious order...

its a view point really... more i read the bani, more i come to this conclusion... i try to understand from bani and am making my own way...

what is important is the end result dear Gurucharan ji... all paths lead to the same place...

good luck to you on your way...and wish me luck on mine...

 

[singh_man]

I would agree with Veer Amarsanghera ji, following the Khalsa way of life and being a Sikh are 2 slightly different concepts. I am a mona, but I can honestly say that I am more educated, knowledgable, and spiritual with the words of Guru Nanak then some of my fellow kesh-keeping singh friends. Just because you may wear a turban does not give you the immediate status of being closer to God. Again, it's really whats inside that counts. How true, pure and at peace are you with yourself and the world we inhabit.

Great discussion. Peace.

 

[Veeru]

Kabir mann nirmal bhayo, jaise ganga neer, paase laago har phire kahe kabir...

Well that's the state of mind we need to achieve. I agree that nobody really becomes closer to God just because of they follow a religion.

Religions generally make people believe that they are going to reside next to prophet after death if they convert into their religion. Well Sikhi is all about achieving the state of realizing God in this life, not waiting till after death.

 

[roopsidhu]

Well said PCJS
We have to choose one from sikh religion and sikh qoum ( sikh cast)
we are treating the religion like cast . thats the real problem.

 

[truthseeker]

"I agree with achieving a state of mind. Taking Amrit should help us stay in discipline, which should further help achieve that state. However, even for that, one needs to have the right perception of taking Amrit, which most people appear not to have, the right perception, that it."

Waheguru ji ka khalsa, Waheguru ji ki fateh

This statement of your PCJS Ji is very true. Many people assume that once you recieve Amrit you instantly become a Sant or something... but thats not true.

Umm SIngh_man Ji, sorry for my ignorance but i do not understand your statement "...following the Khalsa way of life and being a Sikh are 2 slightly different concepts..." I have always had the understanding that in order to be Sikh one had to follow the teachings of ones Guru, not just the onces that may be easy or convenient, but all of them.
Just because you may be more knowledgeable, more spiritual than some of your kes dharee friends just shows that you have taking more initiative in making that conection with Guru Sahib, with Waheguru. They may just keep it for the sake of it.

This brings me to another point, what about Singhs, or Singhnis who keep there hair but have no love for this Kakaar? Is it more right for them to have it and no respect it then not have it at all??

Bhul Chuk Maaf Karni

Waheguru ji ka khalsa, Waheguru ji ki fateh

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

it is a misconception that..hair is not necessary to be a sikh...where does it say that to be a sikh one must cut hair ?? Bhagat Kabir says..Why go bald...when you have NOT shaved your Mann ( of evil thoughts and deeds)
Cut hair supporters will happily quote Kabir on..keeping long hair doesnt make one holy..BUT forget the above quote. Reality si GURBANI is agaisnt "RITUAL"..its TRUE one cannot be a SIKH just by keeping long hair..OR by Cutting IT..Sikhi is inside...and it is sure EASIER to let the Natural Hair GROW than keep cutting it..and there are way MORE traditions FOR keeping Long Hair (SRM and Rehitnamas)..where NOT even One source exits that says its OK to cut hair and remain a Sikh !!! Ponder over that.

SIKHS are under serious misconception again that removal of turban'hair makes them BLEND IN..they will always REMAIN "COLOURED" to the Goras...so like shaved donkeys they neither remain true donkeys but become mules..NOT a HORSE.
Thirdly I have yet to come across a GORA SIKH who cut his hair !! KUDOS to the CONVERTS..they are better SIKHS than the shaved donkeys trying to be horses..but turn into mules forever....sorry for hard talk..but FACTS are FACTS.
Gyani jarnail Singh

 

[singh_man]

Dear Gyani ji -
Many of the DEVOTED Guru's followers under the Sikhi faith during the time of the Guru;s did NOT live under the rule of keeping hair. This only became a rule with Guru Gobind Singh Ji with the main purpose to maintain an unique identity in very uncertain and scary times of oppression and conversion amongst the Hindus and Muslims. The very loyal followers of Baba Nanak and the other Gurus worshipped the words the Guru's spoke and meditated on prayers and oneness with God. I'm sure hair was not an issue in those times - at least I have not read anything to the contrary.

As for your "misconception point" - I think many Sikhs are under the misconception that a turban wearing Sikh is more holy or spiritually pure than non-turban wearing Sikhs - what a load of crap! I have met many Sardar ji's drinking, eating meat, even those who keep their hair but trim their beards and their wives and daughters have the latest cut hairstyles. Again - look to the INSIDE people - not to the cosmetic EXTERIOR of a person to make your judgements.

As to the "Gora point" - Sikhism is open to ALL people - whatever color. And many of the Gora Sikh's are probably more pure and true to the Bani that apnay Khalsa Sikh's!

Just because you may be Punjabi and brown doesn't necessarily make you a better Sikh.

Respect.

 

[Veeru]

Giyani Ji,

Kabir Sahib, while referring to yogis, also said that it was useless to grow hair.

What we are talking about here is a spiritual Sikh. This is a fact that a spiritual Sikh can't be better than a spiritually perfected person. Now the question is: does a spiritually perfected person need to grow hair? We don't have the definite answer but it's probably true.

Now another question: Does keeping hair make one a Sikh? How about characteristics of a Sikh? What characteristics a person must possess in order to be a spiritual Sikh or a spiritually perfected person? Does taking Amrit automatically induce those characterisitcs in a person?

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

a small note....before jumping on the Brahmin-Janeau bandwagon and saying that Janeau and Kakaars are the SAME THING...ponder this.
A Janeau of the Brahmin is CASTE BASED....no matter what "A" does ...IF he is BORN a RAVIDASSI CHAMAAR..he/she will get ONLY the Chamaar Janeau. He can become a Rocket Scientist..the worlds Bill gates..President of USA..to a Brahmin he is just a CHAMAAR. So to all the other "janeaus"..all caste based and obtained by BIRTH...ONLY for that particular caste...

The Kakaars on the other hand are CHOICE...Freedom of Choice...a BORN Chmaar and a Born Brahmin will BOTH get the SAME Punj Kakaars and get to drink from the Same Khande batte dee Pahul..and get the SAME name of SINGH/KAUR.

So a janeau and kakaars can NEVER be the SAME...not by a long long shot.
It is fashionable by thsoe who themselves DONT WANT the Kakars...and so by default try to compare them to Janeau..and say Guru nanak Ji "rejected" the Janeau..so why cant we "reject" the dastaar/kirpan etc. Guru nanak ji was "getting" the "Khatree janeau"....and Guru ji told the Brahmin to get him a janeau that wouldnt break, get dirty, get old etc. Guru gobind Singh ji gave ALL five different castes the Same panj kaakaars !!!..so kakaars are a symbol of what the KHALSA PRINCIPLES stand for..its your choice..to wear or NOT.
Secondly a Janeau was COMPULSORY...Kakars are NOT - you have to AGREE to become Amrtidharee..otherwise a "sikh" is NOT asked to wear them..unlike a janeau..
Thirdly a Janeau carries NO RESPONSIBILITY...its just a sign that the Brahmin has put it for you...whether you ask for it or not.....Kakaars carry a heavy responsibility

Gyani jarnail Singh

 

[kaur?princess?]

This was a very sad article... but someone mentioned something about the 10th Guru asking to keep the 5ks... wouldn't one like to think this over and say the reason for that was that sikhs had no identity. They were mixed with the other religions and needed a different identity that set them apart.. and the 5ks did this. If you call sikhism a modern day religion... then keeping long hair/short hair should not make a difference. Sorry if I said anything wrong... but I do feel that the 5ks were to create a sikh identity because in that point of time it was important for sikhs to have their own identity since sikhism was a new religion and people needed to know the difference between sikhs, muslims and hindus.

 

[Archived_Member_19]

<<Reality si GURBANI is agaisnt "RITUAL"..its TRUE one cannot be a SIKH just by keeping long hair..OR by Cutting IT..Sikhi is inside...and it is sure EASIER to let the Natural Hair GROW than keep cutting it..and there are way MORE traditions FOR keeping Long Hair (SRM and Rehitnamas)..where NOT even One source exits that says its OK to cut hair and remain a Sikh !!! Ponder over that.
>>

if you have done comparative religious analysis..u will observe...that what is done in say a catholic church is different from an anglican church and is aslo different from mormon church..

they all have different views about christ..

so if we talk abt the "religion" christianity...it is the all the churches and sects... but if we talk abt the "spiritual" message of christ..it never talks of any of the rituals done by either of the churches..

so if you look at the stuff in same way in sikhism...

many sects exist today..

yes..one of them is strongest...we all call it "Khalsa" or "Panth"...so it calls the rest of others a bad...i sense a hint of 16th century struggle between protestants and catholics...

yes it was annointed by 10th Guru himself...but then it has imposed many rehatnamas which are its own development...much like the catholic church...it has asimilar structure like vatican..

but essence of Guru's message is way beyond each of the sects....it touches the "spiritual" plane..

so i say..

to be a "follower of thought process of Guru Nanak and his Jyot" , whatever name you may give it...sikh or anything, you need not ascribe to any of the religious orders...read Khalsa, nirankaris, or whoever..
but those who do... Follow the "religious Order"

which in turn connects to the same philosophy..

so i say..

all paths illuminated by prophets lead to same source.

 

[Archived_Member_19]

i hope i make clear the distinction between "being a sikh" and "following Sikhism as defined"

 

[Archived_Member_19]

<<SIKHS are under serious misconception again that removal of turban'hair makes them BLEND IN..they will always REMAIN "COLOURED" to the Goras...so like shaved donkeys they neither remain true donkeys but become mules..NOT a HORSE.>>

veerji..
it is important to rise above the question of becoming horses or mules..

we are here to become Human beings and achieve our spiritual potential...


this comparison of donkeys, mules, horses smacks of arrogance of being better...which is the first impact on of someone when he joins a "religious order" and starts a "religious spiritual quest" based on norms and rules.

the best impact of "religious order" is to give a sense of pride to its members..

its almost like the alpha phi beta brotherhoods...