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A Sikh Without His Flowing Hair And Turban

Veeru

SPNer
Jun 27, 2004
68
8
46
Dear PCJS Ji

fateh!

Well, to all that, let me say this spiritually unwise and overjudgemental in nature girl didn't want to blow her own trumpet, nor did she want to leave a message of 'either you live as a Sikh, or you don't live at all!'. I wait for a day when I become wise enough to convince the world of why all that Sikh's code and conduct say is not baseless or out-of-times. I seek Waheguru's blessings for that.

For now, all I can say is 99% of those who cut their hair etc. do that due to lack of confidence in their looks (ur reason cud b different, as an exception), and then start digging out thousands other justifications for their doing. This is not only going against spiritual wisdom, but also against basic moral ethics that a person of any religion(or not) is expected to follow any which day.

Cutting hair is nothing compared to unethical behaviour of religious hardliners. If anything, cutting hair is simply between God and the individual. Even if cutting hair is wrong, at least the person who cuts his/her hair is doing it him/herself unlike religious fanatics who go around and do wrong to others. Cutting someone's own hair is nothing compared to religious fanatics' behaviour towards others.

It's kinda ironic that the goal of a person following a religion is usually to realize God and yet nobody has ever realized God following a religion. That's because religion doesn't make anybody spiritual and one can realize God only by being spiritual, not religious. No spiritually wise person of any religion other Guru Gobind Singh Ji ever even mentioned cutting hair. So it couldn't be unethical, even as per other religions' guidelines...
 

Archived_Member_19

(previously amarsanghera, account deactivated at t
SPNer
Jun 7, 2006
1,323
145
<That's because religion doesn't make anybody spiritual and one can realize God only by being spiritual, not religious>

religion is the opium for masses..

it gives illusions of inclusivity and support...

for a spiritual person, there is no inclusion or exclusion

that is why sometimes i pause before filling the space for providing one's religion :)

there is no option for "Humanitarian Spiritualism".. which is the essence of Sikh path. :(
 

muneet

SPNer
Aug 22, 2005
19
0
61
India, Port Blair
Why do I keep my hair/
Because when the tenth guru's dad was lying in Chandni Chowk, executed by Aurungzeb, mona/ sehajdari/ modern/ pseudo/ assimilated sikhs stood and saw but none had the courage to become the next. When Rangreta (Guru ka Beta) reached Anandpur Sahib with Guru TegBahadur's head hidden in the folds of his clothes and when Guru Gobind learnt of the disposal of the body (rest part) by the sikh trader Lakhi Shah Vanjaara, he decreed hereinafter a sikh will not be able to hide wherever he is - whether it is a good deed or a bad one he does- people will know a sikh has done it. He will not be able to hide his cowardice! So he gave this identity. The kara also reminds us of our enslavement to Guru's teachings. That is when Amrit Chhakna ceremony was carried out and sheep became lions -!!
Remember that shameful day in Delhi when no one stepped forward to speak up for the Ninth gurus dishonored remains. ( Needs self respect!)
Muneet
 
Jul 10, 2006
918
77
Why do I keep my hair/
Because when the tenth guru's dad was lying in Chandni Chowk, executed by Aurungzeb, mona/ sehajdari/ modern/ pseudo/ assimilated sikhs stood and saw but none had the courage to become the next. When Rangreta (Guru ka Beta) reached Anandpur Sahib with Guru TegBahadur's head hidden in the folds of his clothes and when Guru Gobind learnt of the disposal of the body (rest part) by the sikh trader Lakhi Shah Vanjaara, he decreed hereinafter a sikh will not be able to hide wherever he is - whether it is a good deed or a bad one he does- people will know a sikh has done it. He will not be able to hide his cowardice! So he gave this identity. The kara also reminds us of our enslavement to Guru's teachings. That is when Amrit Chhakna ceremony was carried out and sheep became lions -!!
Remember that shameful day in Delhi when no one stepped forward to speak up for the Ninth gurus dishonored remains. ( Needs self respect!)
Muneet

Waheguroo.
 
Jan 21, 2007
41
4
Origionally posted by truthseeker

Waheguru ji ka khalsa, Waheguru ji ki fateh

Just this past January, a friend of mine went to india and was really shocked to see the amount of sikhs with cut hair. Upon returning he said that he and his family felt out of place while walking through the streets and being some of the very few with full kes. He thought that being in India, where our Guru's preached, and fought for justice, he would see many people proud to be Sikh, and take treasure in their Kakaars, but was very disappointed and hurt in what he saw and experienced.

Personally it makes me to upset that it has come to this. Bhai Taru Singh Ji would not let his hair be removed from his head, and so his scalp was removed with a chizel, and now we are purposely asking for our hair to be removed.

WHY TRY TO FIT IN WHEN YOU WERE ONLY BORN TO STAND OUT

Bhul chuk maaf karni

Waheguru ji ka khalsa, Waheguru ji ki fateh


I agree with 100%.

My family and I recently went to India and we were in the same situation.
 

gursikh

SPNer
Jan 9, 2007
9
0
Simple having hair and turban is not sikhism...
sikhism is following the words of sikh guru's...... all the 10 guru's explained time and again.. dont imitate us.. do what we tell u to do....

not keeoing hair or turban r not so big issues... bcz hairs can grow again...
but the most imprtant thing is following the Gurubani and correct gurubani.. rather than becoming fanatics...
 

badmash

SPNer
Jan 25, 2007
139
5
I do not have kes.
But if anyone thinks that loss of kes by sikhs does not hurt sikhism, they are fools.
If all sikhs cut their hair, we are merely an absorbed subsect of Hinduism. While we are that anyway, the appearance of the sikh is what has stood him apart for many centuries. People should be free to do what they choose to do. Keeping hair is no easy thing in the climate of India and punjab. It is always easy to judge others too. But make no doubt, in the long run, people amalgamate with those who look like them. In the case of sikhs, we have only gone downhill. Since partition, our respect, dignity, place in Indian and world society, and indeed in our own eyes has seen significant deterioration. In my opinion, the vast cesspool of India has made us much like the rest of the gutter offal (inroads of modern TV, entertainment and migrant labor has made us weak, fat, stupid, ignorant, lazy and namak haram). One wonders if we would have fared better culturally (while less so economically) under a larger Pakistan. In latter scenario we probably would still be fielding olympians rather than selling our souls for money and emigration opportunity.
 

Mai Harinder Kaur

Mentor
Writer
SPNer
Oct 5, 2006
1,755
2,735
72
British Columbia, Canada
His daughter-in-law Roominder Kaur is quite happy with a clean-shaven son as she doesn't have to go through the tedium of combing and tying his hair each morning.

I read this thread when it was first posted, but I haven't been able to get this statement out of my mind.

The tedium of combing and tying his hair each morning.

When my son was a little boy, this was my favourite time of day. He would sit and tell me everything that was on his mind - and kids really do have a lot on their minds, anyone with a five-year old should take the time to listen. I was really very sad when he didn't need this any more because it produced a real closeness and bonding between us. Tedium? I don't think so.
 
Feb 16, 2007
5
0
Sat Sri Akal,

I am really surprised to see how sikhs are getting ritualistic. Guru Nanak Dev ji preached to shed all our rituals and see what we are doing. We have not fully shed those rituals and on top of that we have adopted new rituals. Why so? I am not against kesh, I am against making it a ritual. It should be a personal choice and when we say that even non-sikhs can seek god or salvation then and there are no castes and creed then how can we call people of our community "patit" just because they had hair-cuts.

Please explain! I am confused with all these contradicting statements made by Sikhs all the time.

Regards.........
 

Archived_Member_19

(previously amarsanghera, account deactivated at t
SPNer
Jun 7, 2006
1,323
145
<<when we say that even non-sikhs can seek god or salvation then and there are no castes and creed then how can we call people of our community "patit" just because they had hair-cuts>>

thank you sardarni ji

a very nice observation
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
Mentor
Writer
SPNer
Jul 4, 2004
7,708
14,381
75
KUALA LUMPUR MALAYSIA
<<when we say that even non-sikhs can seek god or salvation then and there are no castes and creed then how can we call people of our community "patit" just because they had hair-cuts>>

thank you sardarni ji

a very nice observation

Totally wrong.

Seeking god or salvation blah blah blah has NOTHING to do with PATITS.
A Hindu is NOT a PATIT..neither is a Chinese Buddhist, President Bush, or .... Osama Bin laden..or Kofi Annan.....ONLY an AMRITDHAREE who cuts his HAIR is a PATIT. ALL the SIX BILLION people of thsi world can cut their Hair...foreskins..and whatever else they wnat..and still SEEK " god/kalimata/jesus/etc etc etc etc....BUT nay AMRITDHAREE who cuts his/her hair..automatically becoems a PATIT..but he/she can still go on "seeking" GOD...whether he FINDS GOD or not...aha..thats the real question..and OBSERVATION Sardarni ji. Anyone who doesnt want to be aptit..has two choices..DONT take Amrti..or DONT cut your hair. No body is Forcing ether choice on YOU.

Gyani jarnail Singh
 

Archived_Member_19

(previously amarsanghera, account deactivated at t
SPNer
Jun 7, 2006
1,323
145
can't agree more gyani ji

you have hit the nail right on the head..atleast for your initial part...

Khalsa is an exclusive brotherhood/sisterhood... respected...i have utmost respect for all who are members of the brotherhood/sisterhood..and believe that whosoever accepts a brotherhood/sisterhood must abide by rules laid down


<<Anyone who doesnt want to be aptit..has two choices..DONT take Amrti..or DONT cut your hair>>

so you also come back to same square saying that there are two options

take Amrit and follow rules of brotherhood - non patit
take amrit , not follow rules - patit

but there could be other cases -

could you explain please?

donot take amrit or follow rules of brotherhood, but follow principles of sikhi - ????

donot take amrit or follow rules, also donot follow principles of sikhi - ????

take amrit, follow rules of brotherhood, but donot follow principles of sikhi - ???


i would like to reiterate my understaning which i have made clear in my previous posts -

taking amrit is acceptance to the khalsa brother hood... it is NOT the ONLY path of Sikhi or the certificate of sikhi

sikhi or sikh philosophy is what is the message of SGGS


bhul chuk maaf and apologies for harsh words if any
 

Archived_Member_19

(previously amarsanghera, account deactivated at t
SPNer
Jun 7, 2006
1,323
145
oh

and forgot to add further....

how does any one check if the other person is sikh ?


who can make the yardstick?

who can set standards?

is sikhi limited to some people?

-------

now repeat same questions for Khalsa

you will be able to answer all questions..

but not for Sikhi

why ???

its a million $ qn :)
 

kds1980

SPNer
Apr 3, 2005
4,502
2,743
44
INDIA
today in the afternoon i was just thinking that amarsanghera hasn't posted from many days
and today you are back on site.anyway good to see you back.
 

Hardas Singh

(previously Satyadhi)
SPNer
Feb 19, 2007
77
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I learned about Sikhism about 2 years ago when i met this Punjabi girl who is a proud Sikh and since then we have become the closest of friends, she has become my sister to me... I was raised in a strong christian family but i felt that christainity wasn't the right path so i searched and when i learned of Sikhism i thought it was cool, but it wasn't until 2 years later that i decided to become a Sikh, I have read a lot of stuff about Sikhism and studied the scrptures of the SGGS but i still consider myself very new to Sikhism since i converted recently... honestly i didn't understand how sad it is before i became a Sikh that Sikhs are cutting their hair, but now that i'm a Sikh i feel it is impossible to not feel a part of the Punjabi culture even though i'm not Punjabi, and plan to not cut my hair as soon as i leave home (my parents would never approve of me being a Sikh) even though i consider myself to be a Sikh and i believe you are still a Sikh whether or not you cut your hair as long as you believe the Gurus, but i believe it is still sad because you are blatantly disobeying God, how can kesh ever be old fashioned? some of the Gurus were martyrs... to say kesh is old fashioned is to say that God is old fashioned and no longer neccesary, and anyone who believes God to be unneccesary is an idiot... are there not any more Sikhs who would be willing to be martyred for their faith? and another thing is fashion eternal? no, of course notmaterial things are nice to have but they will become dust and go away, it's ok to have nice things but at what cost? are you so attached to your material possesions that you will disobey God and then expect hm to remember you? please correct me if i'm wrong for i am young in my understanding but when i decided to become a Sikh i was serious about my commitment, i'm willing to die and be persecuted for my faith, (i prasy God will give me the strength to do that bravely praising God with my last breath, leaving behind me not just blood and a body but a message of the true God) if Sikhs want fashion that is ok, they can still look fashionable while keeping kesh and turban... i believe we shouldn't force our children to be Sikhs but while they are young we must train them and teach them the right way, and take them to the gurdwara, and when they are old enough to make there own desicions they will not turn away from God...
 
Feb 14, 2006
512
31
Totally wrong. Seeking god or salvation blah blah blah has NOTHING to do with PATITS. A Hindu is NOT a PATIT..neither is a Chinese Buddhist, President Bush, or .... Osama Bin laden..or Kofi Annan.....ONLY an AMRITDHAREE who cuts his HAIR is a PATIT. ALL the SIX BILLION people of thsi world can cut their Hair...foreskins..and whatever else they wnat..and still SEEK "god/kalimata/jesus/etc etc etc etc.... BUT nay AMRITDHAREE who cuts his/her hair..automatically becoems a PATIT..but he/she can still go on "seeking" GOD...whether he FINDS GOD or not...aha..thats the real question..and OBSERVATION Sardarni ji. Anyone who doesnt want to be aptit..has two choices..DONT take Amrti..or DONT cut your hair. No body is Forcing ether choice on YOU. ~Gyani jarnail Singh
This is why the distinction between kes and keski as kakkar is so important.


Because people mistake that kes is something you have to keep only if you are amrit chukk. All the kakkars are something worn on the body, they have a significance to the body. If you are amritdhari, they should not be removed. Yet, if I am replacing a kara, I take off my kara (mine is stuck on actually, but for example). I can take off my kara, but I can't take off my hand.

If I go to an airport, I must remove kirpan due to security or I can't travel. I can take off my kirpan, but I don't take off Guruji's kirpa of my right to defend against injustice. If I take off any kakkars, (while amritdhari shouldn't) this alone doesn't break my amrit. It may be a mistake, but it isn't bujjar kurehit. If I remove keski to do isnaan, I am not taking off my hairs.

When someone born a Sikh removes kes, whether they are amritdhari or not, they break with Guruji. How can it be, now after all these generations of Sikhi, and all these shaheeds died instead of renouncing Sikhi by giving up kes, that suddenly our kids can just go cutting?

What importance is the hair if you are uncut or if you cut? If hair has only religious significance, why keep? These mistakes are why the youth think keeping kes is old-fashioned. They know you can still be a nice person without kes. And they see hairs having no purpose other than appearance. So, it is merely fashion statement. To believe you can alter the body with circumcision, body modification piercings, tatooing, and shorn kes...only later to decide if you want to become amritdhari...it's never going to happen like that.

Cutting kes crosses a spiritual line for a Sikh. What is the function and purpose of hair? In modern society, doctors and scientists say it is a useless appendage. Cut, style, bleach, dye, curl, whatever. Makes no difference. And young people think they are so modern, so sharp believing this. They wanna be like everybody else to fit in. But is society right? Is kes a useless appendage? If so, then it is only a religious decoration and doesn't matter if you cut.

Actually hair has an intimate relationship to the spine and brain as energetic spiritual centers of the body. On a subtle level, the hairs, particularly of the head are like an antenna which picks up electrical-magnetic current. Hair can be charged. This is why, in windy weather or with balloons, or near electric current, the hairs get charge and stand on end.
regstat.jpg
Taller-Aura.jpg
pd740645_s.jpg


If you are a Sikh, the first fundamental of being a Sikh is don't cut the hairs. That distinguishes us from all others. It is a bond between us and our Satguru. The purpose of the hairs is, as Sikhs, we are meant to jap Naam. Japping Naam creates a vibration that has an electrical-magnetic current on a subtle level. And we are supposed to charge our bodies with this current of Naam, to lift our vibration as part of becoming Gurmukh, or jeevan-mukt. We raise ourselves energetically to receive the blessings of Guruji.

Everything we are doing in Sikhi has a purpose. We tie the kes in a jura. You can't tie a jura if you have cut off your kes. A sikh without a jura, a rishi knot is missing something fundamental to spiritual practice. The jura covers the dasam duar, the tenth gate, the opening at the crown of the head. It is an energetic center of the body. It is the practice of a Sikh to tie hair here, in this way. And the purpose is to put spiritual vibration of Shabad Gurbani and Naam into the hairs, and then wrap it over the spiritual opening to protect the thoughts of the mind and lift the whole atma to Waheguru.

This is why keski, instead of kes as a kakkar is so important. Because girls as well as boys have this same spiritual physiology. Girls also have a dasam duar, a spiritual opening, and ability to reach high spiritual states and vibrational level. Yet, modernly, Sikh girls don't even wear a jura. It's a choice, like a fashion statement. Because they don't know the spiritual purpose of keeping kes is to be a sant-sipahi. No soldier is ready for battle with long hairs trailing down which can be pulled. And no Sikh sant cuts off his spiritual-vibrational connection with his Guru. So we have all these things. Sikh girls only keep hairs covered in Gurudwara. And boys are cutting and only wear kara for decoration. The religion has become symbolic only. The significance of Sikhi as an intense spiritual practice has been lost. Keski and dastaar is your crown. It insulates the spiritual Naam currents in the kes and uplifts your whole jeevan.

If you cut hairs, that's it. You've lost Sikhi. You are only name of Sikh. The biggest khanda and all the bhangra in the world won't bring it back. But if you want to be a Sikh, become a disciple of the Guru. Do ardas for Gursikhi, ask forgiveness of the sangat, and stop cutting. Then be a Sikh, say your nitenam, keep amrit vela, simran, do seva, give dasvandh. This life is passing away quickly. Why waste your precious time clinging to fake things that get you shipwrecked like a bhoot to maya? Cling to Guruji who loves you, who has the power to carry you safely across the ocean of suffering.
Taru.jpg

Bhai Taru Singh chose shaheedi to keep his hairs because he was a Sikh of the Guru. His spiritual connection to Guruji was more important then losing life itself. Any enemy can physically crush this body, but only the Sikh has the choice to let go of his Guru. That is the same as losing his religion.

  • Hukamnama written by Sri Gobind Singh ji:
"Sarbat sangat Kabul Guru rakhe ga Tusa ute asaadee bahut khusi hai Tusi Khande da Amrit Panja to lena Kes rakhne...ih asadee mohur hair; Kachh, Kirpan da visah nahee karna SARB LOH da kara hath rakhna Dono vakat kesa dee palna karna Sarbat sangat abhakhia da kutha Khave naheen, Tamakoo na vartana Bhadni tatha kanya-maran-vale so mel na rakhe Meene, Massandei, Ramraiye ki sangat na baiso Gurbani parhni...Waheguru, Waheguru japna Guru kee rahat rakhnee Sarbat sangat oopar meri khushi hai.
Patshahi Dasvi Jeth 26, Samat 1756

(To the entire sangat at Kabul. The Guru will protect the Sangat, I am pleased with you all. You should take baptism by the sword, from the Five Beloveds. Keep your hair uncut for this is a seal of the Guru, Accept the use of shorts and a sword. Always wear IRON KARA on your wrist, Keep your hair clean and comb it twice a day. Do not eat Halal (Kosher) meat, Do not use tobacco in any form, Have no connection with those who kill their daughters Or permit the cutting of their children's hair. Do not associate with Meenas, Massands and Ram-raiyas (anti-Sikh cults) Recite the Guru's hymns Meditate on "The Name of our Wonderful Lord", Follow the Sikh code of discipline I give the entire sangat my blessing)
Signature of 10th Guru Jeth 26, 1756 Bikrami (23rd May 1699 A.D)

Guru Gobind Singh: Information from Answers.com


bhul chuk maaf karni ji
 
Last edited:
Feb 14, 2006
512
31
One other thing about these popular hair cuts and new fashion statement.

Can anyone forget the impunity that transpired since 1984 as if it had no effect on the psyche of Punjab? For 20 years, in the name of combating militancy, India's criminal Police forces have brutalized Sikhs. Thousands with Sikh appearance were arrested, illegally detained, tortured, humiliated, killed, and anonymosly cremated on the merest suspicion of being a militant, a relative or remotest acquaintance of suspected militants. An entire generation of keshdhari youths has already been destroyed.

The political amnesia and collective denial in India today hides a reason why Sikh appearance became so unpopular in the Punjab.
File0043.jpg

File0061.jpg

Photos from the Khalra collection.

"Please give me a small part within human rights."
~Shaheed Jaswant Singh Khalra
<B>
"When we made this request [to the High Court], that we don't need anything, but just tell us which homes precious diamond you burned in which cremation ground and when."



~Shaheed Jaswant Singh Khalra
</B>


Eleven years ago, on September 6, 1995, the Punjab police abducted, tortured, and murdered human rights defender Jaswant Singh Khalra because he exposed the disappearances and killings of thousands of Sikhs by the Punjab police. In his last speech made to a Canadian audience, released today with subtitles by Ensaaf, Jaswant Singh Khalra discusses his investigations into the disappearances and his readiness to die to expose the truth about these crimes.

Ensaaf | Khalra's Last International Speech Highlights Mass Crimes of KPS Gill
 

badmash

SPNer
Jan 25, 2007
139
5
oh

and forgot to add further....

how does any one check if the other person is sikh ?


who can make the yardstick?

who can set standards?

is sikhi limited to some people?

-------

now repeat same questions for Khalsa

you will be able to answer all questions..

but not for Sikhi

why ???

its a million $ qn :)

I think:

a) be happy first that people claim to be Sikh
b) be surprised if they are proud to be sikh
c) be more surprised (in the west) if they are young and can speak punjabi
d) remember the more one questions the nitty gritty, the details, do not lose site of the larger looming question: ethnic and cultural identity loss and absorption by hinduism, a process actively pursued by all in India, on both sides.
 

badmash

SPNer
Jan 25, 2007
139
5
One other thing about these popular hair cuts and new fashion statement.

Can anyone forget the impunity that transpired since 1984 as if it had no effect on the psyche of Punjab? For 20 years, in the name of combating militancy, India's criminal Police forces have brutalized Sikhs. Thousands with Sikh appearance were arrested, illegally detained, tortured, humiliated, killed, and anonymosly cremated on the merest suspicion of being a militant, a relative or remotest acquaintance of suspected militants. An entire generation of keshdhari youths has already been destroyed.

Absolutely. The plight of a secular, brave, hard working community against the antipathy of a billion strong majority is clear to see. And the numbers above are not thousands, they are hundreds of thousands. Just remember that on June 6, 1984 not only Amritsar but all major gurudwaras in Punjab were attacked. Over time, best and bravest sikhs were killed off, and the remainder have given in. Lakshmi, money, greed and prosperity along with our own lack of spiritual, religious and linguistic backbone has killed us. We have become like our overlords, the hindus, greedy, fat and corrupt. And sadly enough, this path has been greased by all our leaders and politicians, and no single man of virtue or integrity has stood up to really try to stop it. What could be achieved in 300 years, has been undone in 25 years. So be it. I say all of us without hair go back and call ourselves by our traditional names, like Gopi Chand, Mool Chand, and the like.
 

rooh

SPNer
Jul 14, 2005
19
6
54
london
I agree Max314. Amazing to read such carping remarks. The gurus did not judge on the basis of our physical appearance. They accepted everyone who came to them. Who are we to judge others and say that someone who cuts their hair is not sikh and someone who has a turban is a Sikh. In my mind, a true SiKh is one who does not judge but sees that divine spark in everyone and since many of us have not attained this insight, we should first take a good look at ourselves and question whether we are truly the Sikhs that we purport to be. Have we really imbibed the real essence of what it means to be Sikh? I think that many of us, will be found lacking. Most crucially, God's relationship with us is nothing to do with our physical state, but more to do with our inner state of being. But as we cannot ascendto the heights of the Gurus, we bring them down to our limited and constricted perspectives.
 
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