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Akal Takhat Says No To Kirtan Sewa By Women At Darbar Sahib

Jan 7, 2009
59
48
Gurfuteh Ji
This is a very sad day for me to hear this nonsense. When the Akal Thakth makes a decision it effects Sikhs all around the world. Many of us consider their decisions as the "Right" decisions,so we abide by them. It breaks my heart to hear that as a woman I am not considered to be of a high enough status due to my gender to do "Sewa for my Guru" at THe Golden Temple. It makes we wonder if there are limits to what I am "ALLOWED" to achieve on this spiritual journey. Many ignorant people will agree will the Akal Thakth,and that scares me. Instead of raising Sikhism we are pulling it down.
Just my thoughts.
 

Tejwant Singh

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Jun 30, 2004
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Henderson, NV.
Gurfuteh Ji
This is a very sad day for me to hear this nonsense. When the Akal Thakth makes a decision it effects Sikhs all around the world. Many of us consider their decisions as the "Right" decisions,so we abide by them. It breaks my heart to hear that as a woman I am not considered to be of a high enough status due to my gender to do "Sewa for my Guru" at THe Golden Temple. It makes we wonder if there are limits to what I am "ALLOWED" to achieve on this spiritual journey. Many ignorant people will agree will the Akal Thakth,and that scares me. Instead of raising Sikhism we are pulling it down.
Just my thoughts.

Susan ji,

Guru Fateh.

This decision by Akal Takhat proves that they do not understand nor do they care about the teachings of our Gurus given to us by them in SGGS, our ONLY GURU. They have passed many Hukumnaamas out of sheer ignorance which is laced with a lot of arrogance.

These both traits that they possess and flaunt and use them so shamelessly are anti Gurmat. This is the reason none of their Hukunaamas which are anti Gurmat should be accepted and all those who believe and try to practice the teachings of SGGS should protest vehemently.

It is sad to notice that these people have abused their power like the Mughals, the Hindus and others did.

Tejwant Singh

PS: I did write a little essay about this called- Bogey Men which you can search in the forum. I hope you enjoy it.:)
 

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
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Jun 17, 2004
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Soul Jyot ji

What an inspiring article and more than inspiring! Thanks for posting. The discussion is really educational and interesting ji's all. :idea:
 

vsgrewal48895

Writer
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Mar 12, 2009
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Dear All,

Selfless service in Sikh thought is the right of every human since God is a part of every one. To refuse such a service is denying the presence of God in that individual against the teachings contained in AGGS.

Cordially,

Virinder
 
Jul 18, 2009
2
4
India
Yes baptised womens should be allowed to perform Kirtan in Shri Harmandir Sahib,if womens could do Kirten in other Gurudwaras in pressence of "Shri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj "then why not at Harimander Sahib,If Mata Bhag Kaur could fight in battel field, then why they can not peroform Kirtan,women's could deliver better Message of Shri Guru Nanak Dev Ji allow them.
 

singhini

SPNer
Mar 28, 2009
11
18
This saddens me that the Akal Takht that we are supposed to look towards for implementing Sikhism truly are allowing their thoughts and opinions to get in the way of guru ji's teachings.

Very sad that despite what the guru's did for bringing equality between women and men as women we are still struggling to achieve this.

When I see things like this it makes me want to turn away from the "institutionalised" side of sikhi.
 

Hardas Singh

(previously Satyadhi)
SPNer
Feb 19, 2007
77
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Why does the Akal Takhat waste time with such matters, men and women are equal, now lets move on to more important issues concerning the Sikh community as well as the rest of the world. The Akal Takhat is becoming to much like a priesthood, I thought our Gurus did away with the idea of priests?
 

vsgrewal48895

Writer
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Mar 12, 2009
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Michigan
This is the Miri which is the problem for spiritual progress. They do not want to share the message of AGGS to the humanity and those who question are excommunicated.

Virinder
 

vsgrewal48895

Writer
SPNer
Mar 12, 2009
651
663
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Michigan
Dear Susan,

You are doing great IMHO and keep it up. You want to know the history of it, go to google and find the site "Encyclopedia of Sikhism" and read it. Basically the principle of setting it up was great but because of political corruption it has fallen in to bad repute and make unilateral decisions against women rights and not letting the relatives of Mardana to sing Sabds like illitrates. Just remember the Sabds of Guru Arjan when upset e.g.

ਜਾ ਕਉ ਮੁਸਕਲੁ ਅਤਿ ਬਣੈ ਢੋਈ ਕੋਇ ਨ ਦੇਇ ॥ਲਾਗੂ ਹੋਏ ਦੁਸਮਨਾ ਸਾਕ ਭਿ ਭਜਿ ਖਲੇ ॥ਸਭੋ ਭਜੈ ਆਸਰਾ ਚੁਕੈ ਸਭੁ ਅਸਰਾਉ ॥ਚਿਤਿ ਆਵੈ ਓਸੁ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਲਗੈ ਨ ਤਤੀ ਵਾਉ ॥

jaa ka-o muskal at banai dho-ee ko-ay na day-ay. laagoo ho-ay dusmanaa saak bhe bhaj khalay. sabho bhajai aasraa chukai sabh asraa-o. chit aavai os paarbarahm lagai na tatee vaa-o.

When you are confronted with terrible hardships, and no one offers you any support, when your friends turn into enemies, and even your relatives have deserted you, and when all support has given way, and all hope has been lost if you then come to remember the Supreme God, even the hot wind shall not touch you.

ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਨਿਤਾਣਿਆ ਕਾ ਤਾਣੁ ॥ਆਇ ਨ ਜਾਈ ਥਿਰੁ ਸਦਾ ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦੀ ਸਚੁ ਜਾਣੁ ॥ ਜੇ ਕੋ ਹੋਵੈ ਦੁਬਲਾ ਨੰਗ ਭੁਖ ਕੀ ਪੀਰ ॥ ਦਮੜਾ ਪਲੈ ਨਾ ਪਵੈ ਨਾ ਕੋ ਦੇਵੈ ਧੀਰ ॥ਸੁਆਰਥੁ ਸੁਆਉ ਨ ਕੋ ਕਰੇ ਨਾ ਕਿਛੁ ਹੋਵੈ ਕਾਜੁ ॥ਚਿਤਿ ਆਵੈ ਓਸੁ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਤਾ ਨਿਹਚਲੁ ਹੋਵੈ ਰਾਜੁ ॥

saahib nitaani-aa kaa taan. aa-ay na jaa-ee thir sadaa gur sabdee sach jaan. jay ko hovai dublaa nang bhukh kee peer. damrhaa palai naa pavai naa ko dayvai Dheer. su-aarath su-aa-o na ko karay naa kichh hovai kaaj. chit aavai os paarbarahm taa nihchal hovai raaj.

Our Akal Purkh is the Power of the powerless, and does not come or go is Eternal and Permanent. Through the Word of the Guru's Sabd, It is known as True. If you are weakened by the pains of hunger and poverty, with no money in your pockets, and no one will give you any comfort, and no one will satisfy your hopes and desires, and none of your works is accomplished-- if you then come to remember the Supreme God, you shall obtain the eternal kingdom.

ਜਾ ਕਉ ਚਿੰਤਾ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਦੇਹੀ ਵਿਆਪੈ ਰੋਗੁ ॥ਗ੍ਰਿਸਤਿ ਕੁਟੰਬਿ ਪਲੇਟਿਆ ਕਦੇ ਹਰਖੁ ਕਦੇ ਸੋਗੁ ॥ਗਉਣੁ ਕਰੇ ਚਹੁ ਕੁੰਟ ਕਾ ਘੜੀ ਨ ਬੈਸਣੁ ਸੋਇ ॥ਚਿਤਿ ਆਵੈ ਓਸੁ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਤਨੁ ਮਨੁ ਸੀਤਲੁ ਹੋਇ ॥

jaa ka-o chintaa bahut bahut dayhee vi-aapai rog. garisat kutamb palayti-aa kaday harakh kaday sog. ga-on karay chahu kunt kaa gharhee na baisan so-ay. chit aavai os paarbarahm tan man seetal ho-ay.

When you are plagued by great and excessive anxiety, and diseases of the body; when you are wrapped up in the attachments of household and family, sometimes feeling joy, and then other times sorrow; when you are wandering around in all four directions, and you cannot sit or sleep even for a moment -- if you come to remember the Supreme God, then your body and mind shall be cooled and soothed.-----Guru Arjan, Sri Raag, AGGS, Page, 70-71

ਅਉਖੀ ਘੜੀ ਨ ਦੇਖਣ ਦੇਈ ਅਪਨਾ ਬਿਰਦੁ ਸਮਾਲੇ ॥ਹਾਥ ਦੇਇ ਰਾਖੈ ਅਪਨੇ ਕਉ ਸਾਸਿ ਸਾਸਿ ਪ੍ਰਤਿਪਾਲੇ ॥ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਸਿਉ ਲਾਗਿ ਰਹਿਓ ਮੇਰਾ ਚੀਤੁ ॥ਆਦਿ ਅੰਤਿ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਸਦਾ ਸਹਾਈ ਧੰਨੁ ਹਮਾਰਾ ਮੀਤੁ ॥ਮਨਿ ਬਿਲਾਸ ਭਏ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਕੇ ਅਚਰਜ ਦੇਖਿ ਬਡਾਈ ॥ ਹਰਿ ਸਿਮਰਿ ਸਿਮਰਿ ਆਨਦ ਕਰਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਪ੍ਰਭਿ ਪੂਰਨ ਪੈਜ ਰਖਾਈ ॥

A¬ukẖī gẖaṛī na ḏėkẖaṇ ḏė¬ī apnā biraḏ samālė. Hāth ḏė¬ė rākẖai apnė ka¬o sās sās parṯipālė. Parabẖ si¬o lāg rahi¬o mėrā cẖīṯ. Āḏ anṯ parabẖ saḏā sahā¬ī ḏẖan hamārā mīṯ. Man bilās bẖa¬ė sāhib kė acẖraj ḏėkẖ badā¬ī. Har simar simar ānaḏ kar Nānak parabẖ pūran paij rakẖā¬ī.

Akal Purkh does not let Its devotees face hardships. This is Its innate nature. Giving Its hand, Akal Purkh protects Its devotees; with each and every breath, and cherishes them. Their consciousness remains attached to God. In the beginning, and in the end, God is always my helper and companion -- blessed is my friend. My mind is delighted, gazing upon the marvelous, glorious greatness of the Master. Remembering, remembering It in meditation, Nanak is in ecstasy; God, in Its perfection, has protected and preserved his honor. -----Guru Arjan, Raag Dhanasari, AGGS, Page, 682

ਤਾਤੀ ਵਾਉ ਨ ਲਗਈ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਸਰਣਾਈ ॥ਚਉਗਿਰਦ ਹਮਾਰੈ ਰਾਮ ਕਾਰ ਦੁਖੁ ਲਗੈ ਨ ਭਾਈ ॥ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਪੂਰਾ ਭੇਟਿਆ ਜਿਨਿ ਬਣਤ ਬਣਾਈ ॥ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮੁ ਅਉਖਧੁ ਦੀਆ ਏਕਾ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਈ ॥ਰਾਖਿ ਲੀਏ ਤਿਨਿ ਰਖਨਹਾਰਿ ਸਭ ਬਿਆਧਿ ਮਿਟਾਈ ॥ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਭਈ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਭਏ ਸਹਾਈ ॥

Ŧāṯī vā¬o na lag¬ī pārbarahm sarṇā¬ī. Cẖa¬ugiraḏ hamārai rām kār ḏukẖ lagai na bẖā¬ī. Saṯgur pūrā bẖėti¬ā jin baṇaṯ baṇā¬ī. Rām nām a¬ukẖaḏẖ ḏī¬ā ėkā liv lā¬ī. Rākẖ lī¬ė ṯin rakẖaṇhār sabẖ bi¬āḏẖ mitā¬ī. Kaho Nānak kirpā bẖa¬ī parabẖ bẖa¬ė sahā¬ī.

The hot wind does not even touch one who is under the protection of the Supreme Akal Purkh. On all four sides I am surrounded by the Its Circle of Protection; pain does not afflict me, O Siblings of Destiny. I have met the Perfect True Guru, who has done this deed. Akal Purkh has given me the medicine of the Its Name, and I enshrine love for the It. Savior Akal Purkh has saved me, and eradicated all my sickness. Says Nanak, God has showered me with Its Mercy; and has become my help and support. -----Guru Arjan, Raag Bilawal, AGGS, Page, 819

Cordially,

Virinder
 

vsgrewal48895

Writer
SPNer
Mar 12, 2009
651
663
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Michigan
Dear All,

IMHO all the persons at Akal Takhat are in spiritual ignorance, which is the shore less ocean of darkness, with no light at the end of the tunnel. The belief in the philosopher’s stone, the jewel in the serpent’s head, alchemy, and miracles is all a matter of ignorance. Those engaged in the worship of idols, symbols, materialism, gods, goddesses, in fasting, uttering blessings and curses, are all living in spiritual ignorance. By reciting Sabd Guru’s hymns without understanding, even a good person cannot find acceptance by Akal Purkh. Without reflecting on the message of the AGGS or applying them in life, no wandering mind can find stability.

Ignorance is a lack of knowledge, or a willful lack of desire to improve the efficiency, merit, effectiveness or usefulness of one's actions. Ignorance is also a "state of being ignorant" or remaining unaware or uninformed.

Spiritual ignorance is a very serious matter. It is said that "What you don't know won't hurt you". We all know that is incorrect and yet it seems that many people have adopted that philosophy toward spiritual matters. Many people are destroyed for lack of spiritual knowledge. Spiritual ignorance is not merely the lack of knowledge, but also the self-destructive turning away from the truth in all areas of life. To be ignorant of one's ignorance is a further malady of the ignorant. Due to spiritual ignorance the practice of any faith is quite inconsistent with the tenets of that faith.

ਅਸੰਖ ਮੂਰਖ ਅੰਧ ਘੋਰ ॥

Asankh Moorkh Andh Ghor.

Countless fools are blinded by ignorance.-----Japji, AGGS, Page, 4-3

Despite the admonition in some faiths that ignorance is bliss, Sikhism is particularly adamant that ignorance does more harm than good.

If ignorance is bliss, why aren't more people happy?

ਗਿਆਨ ਹੀਣੰ ਅਗਿਆਨ ਪੂਜਾ॥ ਔਧ ਵਰਤਾਵਾ ਭਾਉ ਦੂਜਾ ॥

Giaan HeeNan Agiaan Poojaa, Andh Vartaavaa Bhaou Doojaa.

Without spiritual wisdom, people worship ignorance. They grope in the dark, in the love of duality.-----Guru Nanak, Sloke Vaaran To Vadheek, AGGS, Page, 1412-4

Please read the complete article in archives of the SPN forum.

Cordially,

Virinder S. Grewal
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
Mentor
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Jul 4, 2004
7,708
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KUALA LUMPUR MALAYSIA
JUST listen to the GURMAT GYAN BIBIS doing Kirtan...they beat the Regular ragis and even the Hazooree ragis I hear daily on live Darbar sahib Kirtan broadcast hands down.
Actually no contest at all..the Bibis are way ahead...and AUTHENTIC KIRTAN...not the harmonium bollywood Filmi tunes...copycats that pass off as kirtan these days..
SPN carries their Kirtan...
 

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
SPNer
Jun 17, 2004
14,500
19,219
Gyani ji

I like them too-- they are the real songbirds of Gurbanee. And their professionalism and polish is outstanding. Wonderfully produced videos.

It must feel good for the husband - our forum member - Manvir ji to read your comments.
 

Mai Harinder Kaur

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Oct 5, 2006
1,755
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British Columbia, Canada
This is a lot of hypocritical [expletive deleted, by me]!

The religion teaches one thing; the religious hierachy enforces another. T'FIA (those fools in Amritsar) need to be thrown out on their ample behinds to be replaced by people who have some understanding of Sikhi. :happy:

Chardi kala! :ice:

Mai
 

Tejwant Singh

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Writer
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Jun 30, 2004
5,024
7,183
Henderson, NV.
Sadh Sangat,

Guru Fateh.

It is sad to see how the so called these care takers of Sikhi are sexist and have the typical Taliban mentality the way they treat women even worse than doormats at Darbar Sahib which ironcally has 4 doors to welcome all humanity but unfortunately those doors are closed for women, either to do seva inside, sit at the tabeiyah of SGGS with chor Sahib, chant Swayeies in the morning when Guru Sahib's Prakash takes place, or to do Gurbani keertan and or to become the Head Granthi.

It is bewildering to notice that these people who are supposed to have complete knowledge of Sikh history and Gurbani forget that Guru Nanak Dev ji, the founder of this beautiful way of life called Sikhi was the first feminist.

This is not only disrepect and insult to the teachings of SGGS but a mockery of Sikhi by those who are supposed to be its flag bearers.

No matter how long their cholas are that they wear, until they realise that what they are doing on purpose is wrong and anti Gurmat, they shall remain "emporers" with no clothes on.

Tejwant Singh
 

Randip Singh

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Historian
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May 25, 2005
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Sadh Sangat,

Guru Fateh.

It is sad to see how the so called these care takers of Sikhi are sexist and have the typical Taliban mentality the way they treat women even worse than doormats at Darbar Sahib which ironcally has 4 doors to welcome all humanity but unfortunately those doors are closed for women, either to do seva inside, sit at the tabeiyah of SGGS with chor Sahib, chant Swayeies in the morning when Guru Sahib's Prakash takes place, or to do Gurbani keetan and or to become the Head Granthi.

It is bewildering to notice that these people who are supposed to have complete knowledge of Sikh history and Gurbani forget that Guru Nanak Dev ji, the founder of this beautiful way of life called Sikhi was the first feminist.

This is not only disrepect and insult to the teachings of SGGS but a mockery of Sikhi by those who are supposed to be its flag bearers.

No matter how long their cholas are that they wear, until they realise that what they are doing on purpose is wrong and anti Gurmat, they shall remain "emporers" with no clothes on.

Tejwant Singh

OMG can you believe this.

Someone told me that the reason for this was due to a womans menstrual cycle. She is impure once a month. What utter utter nonsense!!!!

I am getting even more angrier!:}--}:
 
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