Are Science And Religion Compatible?

[polpol]

My dear Bittu, I want to thank you because you have shown what a wonderful site this is, considering the respect and patience the participants have shown you.
Now I am worried about you. You are slowly but surely placing yourself in
the position of a victim which is quite common among fanatics. What I don't understand is that you live in India and you have lots of religions to chose from yet you chose the most alien to the culture you live in. How can you identify with a religion that clearly uses the Bible to promote american neo-colonialism and a most perverse type of pseudo-religeous positivism (or vice-versa). Please explain how you can possibly identify with the founder whose name (a pseudonyme for sure),reminds us of a once popular american canned meat product...you make me want to be fanatic myself and advice you to take it as a sign of God that you found this site, in order to free yourself from the perverse clutches of the beleaf system you are trying to sell. Are you paid for promoting all this nonsense? Do you get some bonus? I am curious of how you got into this and as I said, I am worried about you.

 

[Bittu]

<!-- google_ad_section_start(weight=ignore) -->Tejwant Singh Ji,<?"urn:fficeffice" />
You said, “Please do not feel hesitant to share and were you able to know what omnipotence really means or not? I am sure you are aware that you can use the help of internet dictionaries.”
I know what Omnipotence means! I already posted reply to you, but Narayanjot Kaur ji deleted it. And I wrote it too, that she deleted my post but I think you didn’t understand that.
Yes from first post I am polite and respectful, but you consider it is rude and disrespect because I am contradicting you! What should I call your earlier post, polite or rude? Respect or disrespect? What you all do is ok for you and Narayanjot Kaur ji, but when I do something it is offensive!!
<o> </o>
I don’t know about other religious scriptures but I came to know how well versed you are in OT, NT.
<o> </o>
The questions you asked me have nothing to do with this discussion. And I know who is prejudging others and playing God in posts. What you are doing is UNSIKH like. No students, No learners, No seekers.
<o> </o>
I have tested liberty? this forum offered me. You are right; Truth needs no belief, no faith because it stands on its own that is why Jesus said, “I Am the Way, the Truth and the Life.” (John 14:6) I too believe Christianity is not a religion; it is Revelation from God and Personal Relation with God.

 

[Bittu]

<!-- google_ad_section_start(weight=ignore) -->Narayanjot Kaur Ji,<?"urn:fficeffice" />
<o> </o>
What I meant by hiding truth and preserving position, you know it very well it’s not mystery. Just post my reply which you deleted if you think you are right. If I were frustrated I would not have post replies. It’s you who is frustrated and you proved it by deleting my post.

 

[Bittu]

Dear <!-- google_ad_section_start(weight=ignore) -->polpol<!-- google_ad_section_end -->,<?"urn:fficeffice" />
<o> </o>
Your own SGGS is composed of Hindu and Muslim ideas and philosophies. Why don’t you consider it alien?
Why should I consider, Christianity Alien? It came into India long before Sikhism! You too are living in a culture where your religion and culture is alien! Why don’t you leave it and accept the majority religion and culture of Canada? By the way Christianity is not a religion; it is Revelation from God and Personal Relation with God. I don’t believe in religions! God is One, He did not create religions. He does not need permission to send His message to His own Creation, in His own created land.
You asked me, “How can you identify with a religion that clearly uses the Bible to promote american neo-colonialism and a most perverse type of pseudo-religeous positivism (or vice-versa).” I never heard such a thing!! Why don’t you prove me that Bible really supports the things you mentioned!
How can you identify with a religion that clearly uses the SGGS to promote terrorism in Punjab? Sikh terrorists too use SGGS to promote their terrorists activities, Should I believe that SGGS supports their Claim?
<o> </o>
Yes you are worried because you frustrated! You said I am selling my belief system, “beleaf system you are trying to sell. Are you paid for promoting all this nonsense? Do you get some bonus? I am curious of how you got into this and as I said, I am worried about you.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->”
Neither is I selling, nor I am paid for anything, nor do I get bonus! I am just defending my Faith. I too ask you, “Why are you selling your belief system. Are you paid for promoting all this nonsense? Do you get some bonus?” Now don’t call “defending” to what you are doing, because you call it selling. By the way unlike SGGS Bible is not nonsense!! Before calling Bible nonsense first read your nonsense book SGGS carefully, it is truly nonsense.
<o> </o>
Thanks for posting the wonderful story but it contradicts your SGGS.

 

[Bittu]

To All,<?"urn:fficeffice" />
<o> </o>
I will post reply no more. Unless you become sincere student, seeker and learner you we will get no result. So, I think it is worthless to discuss here. See you. Bye-Bye. And plz <!-- google_ad_section_start(weight=ignore) -->Narayanjot Kaur Ji post my reply which you deleted.

 

[Seeker9]

To All,fficeffice" /><?"urn:

<!-- google_ad_section_start(weight=ignore) -->Narayanjot Kaur Ji post my reply which you deleted.

Ok...I know I said I wouldn't but I have itchy fingers and just have to reply.......

Dear Biitu Ji

Please read through all your posts on this thread and feel free to copy and paste those excerpts of what you have written that clearly, unequivocally demonstrate your intentions to "become sincere student, seeker and learner" about the Sikh faith - which you will be aware is the faith this worthy forum is all about!

Thank you

 

[polpol]

Dear Bittu, I am not Sikh (yet), I am just learning and seeking. It's not the Bible the problem, it is the way you use it that sounds blasphemous. You are not wrong in everything you said but there is not much of a religeous spirit in what you say. Sorry if I hurt your feelings. But there is lots of neo-colonialism that does use religion and what you follow sounds a lot like that.

 

[polpol]

Dear <!-- google_ad_section_start(weight=ignore) -->polpol<!-- google_ad_section_end -->,fficeffice" />
<o> </o>
Your own Sri Guru Granth Sahib is composed of Hindu and Muslim ideas and philosophies. Why don’t you consider it alien?
Why should I consider, Christianity Alien? It came into India long before Sikhism! You too are living in a culture where your religion and culture is alien! Why don’t you leave it and accept the majority religion and culture of Canada? By the way Christianity is not a religion; it is Revelation from God and Personal Relation with God. I don’t believe in religions! God is One, He did not create religions. He does not need permission to send His message to His own Creation, in His own created land.
You asked me, “How can you identify with a religion that clearly uses the Bible to promote american neo-colonialism and a most perverse type of pseudo-religeous positivism (or vice-versa).” I never heard such a thing!! Why don’t you prove me that Bible really supports the things you mentioned!
How can you identify with a religion that clearly uses the Sri Guru Granth Sahib to promote terrorism in Punjab? Sikh terrorists too use Sri Guru Granth Sahib to promote their terrorists activities, Should I believe that Sri Guru Granth Sahib supports their Claim?
<o> </o>
Yes you are worried because you frustrated! You said I am selling my belief system, “beleaf system you are trying to sell. Are you paid for promoting all this nonsense? Do you get some bonus? I am curious of how you got into this and as I said, I am worried about you.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->”
Neither is I selling, nor I am paid for anything, nor do I get bonus! I am just defending my Faith. I too ask you, “Why are you selling your belief system.Are you paid for promoting all this nonsense? Do you get some bonus?” Now don’t call “defending” to what you are doing, because you call it selling. By the way unlike Sri Guru Granth Sahib Bible is not nonsense!! Before calling Bible nonsense first read your nonsense book Sri Guru Granth Sahib carefully, it is truly nonsense.
<o> </o>
Thanks for posting the wonderful story but it contradicts your Sri Guru Granth Sahib.

Bittu, the Bible can be interpreted in different ways. You say the most important is our personal relation with God through the revelation of Jesus Christ. Why then do you need all those references that have destorted the simple spiritual meaning of Jesus' teachings. But the fact remains that Christianity is the most tragic religion ever, the sadest one. The apostles beleaved the Jesus was to come back during their lifetime. They waited and waited and prayed while they were being persecuted and the more it became clear that Jesus was not coming the more they became desperately obstinate and gradually the faith of the early Christians became perverted with all kinds of exegesis until Christianity became the religion of the opressors whereas it started as a religion of the opressed. We can see the change in the letters of the apostles where the teachings become more and more dogmatic and where monetary and hierarchic considerations become the priority. The Apocalypse is the perfect example of the early Christians' desperation. I said I am worried about you because you are young and there are bad people out there that use the Bible in a very unchristian manner for bad political reasons.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

<!-- google_ad_section_start(weight=ignore) -->Tejwant Singh Ji,fficeffice" />
You said, “Please do not feel hesitant to share and were you able to know what omnipotence really means or not? I am sure you are aware that you can use the help of internet dictionaries.”
I know what Omnipotence means! I already posted reply to you, but Narayanjot Kaur ji deleted it. And I wrote it too, that she deleted my post but I think you didn’t understand that.
Yes from first post I am polite and respectful, but you consider it is rude and disrespect because I am contradicting you! What should I call your earlier post, polite or rude? Respect or disrespect? What you all do is ok for you and Narayanjot Kaur ji, but when I do something it is offensive!!
<o> </o>
I don’t know about other religious scriptures but I came to know how well versed you are in OT, NT.
<o> </o>
The questions you asked me have nothing to do with this discussion. And I know who is prejudging others and playing God in posts. What you are doing is UNSIKH like. No students, No learners, No seekers.
<o> </o>
I have tested liberty? this forum offered me. You are right; Truth needs no belief, no faith because it stands on its own that is why Jesus said, “I Am the Way, the Truth and the Life.” (John 14:6) I too believe Christianity is not a religion; it is Revelation from God and Personal Relation with God.

Bittu ji,

Guru Fateh.

You have sent me the same message via PM and now you have given me the liberty to respond to you the same way I did in the PM to you so all readers can pitch in. Following is my response to you:

Bittu ji,

Guru Fateh,

First and foremost, I never asked you to send me a private message and please do not do it again. This is being a coward and anti Jesus like what you have done as you were not brave enough to respond to my initial post about your coming into Christianity.

I am not part of the moderation of this forum but I am sure she would not have deleted your post about your sharing how you became a Christian, in response to my first post. It makes no sense.

I have no idea what you wrote about omnipotence that you claimed was deleted. You must have used a rude language or something in that nature rather than responding to my questions because omnipotence and free will can not exist together. I asked you direct questions and if you had responded to them accordingly, I find no reason for the moderators whom I have known for a long time to delete any post.

So, try another time and respond in the way I asked you in my first two posts without calling anyone ignorant as you have done earlier.

My UNJESUS like comment to you came when you talked about Narayanjot ji hiding the truth and I also explained you about the TRUTH in my post. I have no idea if you have responded to me about that or not because first thing flashed was your private message which you sent without taking my authorization, especially when the questions were asked in the forum.

I have no idea if you know that Portuguese is the closest language to Latin in which The Bible was translated from Aramic and Greek and I am fluent in Portuguese and I have The Bible in that language also.

When you have done that, then I will discuss with you John 14:6 which I have a lot to discuss about.

So, please respond everything in the forum and I am sure if you respond to the questions asked in the way where fruitful discussion can happen, then there is no reason for the moderators to delete anybody as it is not their practice.

And, NO MORE PM's.

Hope to hear from you in the forum about my questions to you.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[Bittu]

Dear polpol,fficeffice" />

Yes I agree Bible can be interpreted by different people in different ways. I don’t know about which references you are talking about, may be links of creationists. But let me tell you Discussion was not on the message of the Bible, it was Creation Vs. Evolution. As I already said Biblical message is not Science its Salvation. Your claims about The apostles believed that Jesus was to come back during their lifetime & Christianity being most tragic and sadest religion and the faith of the early Christians became perverted with all kinds of exegesis and the teachings become more and more dogmatic and where monetary and hierarchic considerations become the priority and The Apocalypse is the perfect example of the early Christians' desperationare baseless.

Note: These are not baseless claims. They are easy enough to research. Primary and secondary historical documents demonstrate that Tejwant ji is correct. Any theologian, any Christian cleric with 2 years of training in his/her religion, would agreee. Narayanjot Kaur.

 

[Bittu]

Dont west your time to send reply and questions, I am not going to answer. Bye-Bye........no post now, I know its worthless.

God Bless you.
[B][COLOR="Red"][B][B]http://ktzion.weebly.com/science-and-the-holy-bible.html[/B][/B][/COLOR][/B]

 

[spnadmin]

Bittu ji

You reposted a comment that was deleted as a violation of forum rules. This is nothing more than rank defiance of forum guidelines. You say you are leaving SPN. Let us see what happens. You have actually acted in a way that deserves a long ban, or at least moderation of all your posts. Let us see what happens.

 

[Seeker9]

Dear Narayanjot Kaur Ji

I hope Bittu Ji appreciates the latitude you have allowed him, and others too who may have tempered their posts in light of his young age

It is very sad we have got to this stage

Personally, my vote would be for a ban for a period of time to let him cool off and allow him to reflect on his conduct and to what extent he has been an ambassador for his faith and exemplified some of its values and norms, like humility for example

I have only been here for a short while but I do feel like part of an extended family and all the time, everyone treats each other with dignity and respect

Bittu Ji's posts were inflammatory from Day 1 and he did little to moderate that throughout this thread

He and others reading this thread need to understand what the minimum standards of conduct are

I think he has been grossly unfair in the criticisms he has directed toward you and i detect this may have been a bit upsetting for you

Hope you don't mind this post. Just wanted to show my support for what you have done here

 

[polpol]

Bittu, Naranyanjot, Wait, please wait...I have a question that nobody could give an answer to and I wonder if Bittu can help. It's really just a curiosity. In Mathew we read the genealogy of Jesus and then it is devided in 3, from Abraham to David, from David to the Babylon deportation and from that to Jesus Christ. It says that there are 14 generations in each part but I counted and recounted and there are only 13 generations from the Babylon to Jesus. Now the ancients knew how to count, that's for sure so why would they insist on 14 equal generations? Is it symbolic? Don't get me wrong Bittu, it's not a criticism, I just wonder, do you know. Until now the priests of different christian sects just replied that the Bible must not be taken litereally and I know that but still this seems like a simple error of arithmetic but how could that have slipped after almost 2000 years?
Bittu, I see you have been proselytising since you became a member here. Why do Christians feel compelled to do this? This reminds me of Gandhi who said that he could beleave in Christianity if only he could meet just one Christian. If you want people to beleave in what you are saying you must show that your faith has made a good, happy person of you but that's not what we are seeing. We see you as an unhappy, frustrated young man and this makes us all sad.

 

[spnadmin]

polpol ji

LOL and Good questions indeed!

I was going to wait and see whether there were going to be changes for the better. Banning is something we don't like to do here at SPN -- only as a last resort.welcomekaur

So perhaps Bittu ji will answer your question. Who knows?

 

[polpol]

Narayanjot Kaur, you are such a nice person! A real princess! Christians bark a lot but they do not bite HA! HA!
Still, Christianity is a marvellous religion originally; full of poetry and subtility like all religions. For example, the fish is the symbol of Christianity because in Greek the letters for "fish" are the abbreviations for "Jesus Christ, the son of God". When the early Christians were persecuted and had to hide, they would draw a fish on the sand with their walking stick to let the other know they were Christians. They suffered a lot and just for that they merit our respect but since those times things have changed, things have become much more political.swordfight

 

[spnadmin]

polpol ji

Your words are very kind. The stories of the early Christians are an area of fascination. One of our members has a daughter who did serious research in the area of early Christian history. Perhaps he will share some of her discoveries with us. I don't want to mention names because I don't want to invade privacy that way. He can decide.

My own knowledge is actually very limited though I was raised a Roman Catholic. My stronger areas of understanding are not in history, but more in the theology of the Roman Church.

For the most part I like to stay out of these thread as I know very little, and LOL, am here most of the time to restore order. LOL swordfight

 

[Mai Harinder Kaur]

Polpol ji and Narayanjot ji,

As you both know, I was force-fed Christianity at an early age and it still leaves a nasty taste in my mouth. I try, but I'm afraid I have never really gotten very tolerant of proselytsing religions in general and Christianity, in particular. I have, however, studied quite a lot, in self-defence, I guess. I am certainly no expert, but the Jehovah's Witnesses have given up on me, and I consistently out-Bible my born-again, spirit-filled medical caregiver who wonders how anybody could read the whole Bible and not see the obvious truth of it. She, however, intends to read the whole Bible for herself someday. In the meantime, she follows Rev. John Hagee who, being anointed of God, doesn't make mistakes.

I laugh at her a lot, but one thing I must admit, she seems very happy. :happykaur:

 

[Lee]

If God is Akal (Eternal) then how does Adi Granth says that God CREATED Himself? Page 113:4, Page 250:1, Page 291:3,Page 509:1 etc.<?"urn:<img src=" />

Bittu Ji,

Ahh my freind that is easy. Before there was matter there existed only God in spirit.

God created all matter from the spirt of Gods self.

 

[Seeker9]

Dear True Friend ji

All I see is your interpretation/manipulation of scripture in a way that fits science

I see no absolute literal statements

I therefore do not accept your viewpoint on this

Please don't reply with further quotes; I am happy to agree to disagree on this one!