Chautha Pad: A Spiritual Life

[Inder singh]

Inder Singh ji

Please be warned that it is not acceptable to back up charges against another member with a bit of Gurbani to make your point. You are not in this instance using Gurbani shabads to illustrate your argument, you are using part of a shabad to insult another member. It is disrespectful both to the member and to Guruji to do this.

I anticipate your remonstrances against me. You will say that this is favoritism. Keep in mind that my favorite of all is Guruji and He and His voice is not to be used as a hockey puck hit hard to punish the opposition. You have made your point in your own words. Do not do this again.

aad ji

Will you warn the other member not to use bullying language and conduct in debate in a civilized manner.I am yet to see that initiative from your end. Countless other psoters cite one liner or two liners from shabads. Are the rules separate for them?

Be careful not to term gurbani shabds against anyone. That is not my intention. The shabads are quoted to suit to topic under discusssion.

 

[spnadmin]

Inder ji

Please read my warning again carefully. If you want to take the time to do so, please point out the bullying of "the other" person/s. You can do this by private message so as not to disrupt the flow or engage in personal hostilities. If I am off line I may not be able to respond immediately. Apologies for that.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

IMHO..the "uneducated", "illeterate", "blind". "deaf" "dumb" the " deaf+blind+dumb..."...the illeterate deaf dumb blind...the deafdumbmute and uneducated..etc etc are the MINORITIES...and Waheguru Takes care of these..as is declared in Asa ki vaar..if an educated one sins...an uneducated one wont be punished in hsi place...this is ebcasue Waheguru KNOWS ALL..unlike human judges who may indeed punish the wrong person. SO HOW the deafdumbmuteblind is going to be able to BENEFIT from GURBANI..is Waheguru jis responsibility..
FOR the REST of US..there is SGGS..written to be READ, Listened to, Vicharred, and followed.
I Find it UTTER RUBBISH when i read comments like.." So..an uneducated person ?? How is he going to vichaar Gurbani..??? How a blind person is to read Gurbani..how a deaf one is going to listen to Gurbani..etc etc. How mental patient, mad person..blah blah blah...
GURU JI WROTE 1429 Pages..a HUGE GRANTH...for WHAT ?? clear answer ..it is for the MAJORITY..who can hear, see, talk, think...and IMHO EACH POSTER WRITING on SPN has eyes, ears, mouth, tongue, knows English and can type, knows about computers...so we are part of THAT MAJORITY..and NOT the tiny minority that is deaf mute dumb blind mentally challenged etc etc.

Gurbani clearly declares..THE ones the WORLD Calls "BLIND" ( becasue their eyes are damaged ) are NOT THE REALLY BLIND...the ones REALLY BLIND are those who have 20/20 Viison, PERFECT EYES...BUT REFUSE TO SEE..refuse to open those 20/20 eyes !!! Those blind die to eye damage are WAHEGURU jis RESPONSIBILITY..we with perfect viision are on our OWN. OPEN the Guru Given EYES and see the TRUTH..the writing on the WALL. Dont bring in the visually impaired, mentally challenged etc as your backup !!

2. There is a BIG DIFFERENCE..between UNREACHABLE....and OMNIPRESCENT...
One is that CANNOT BE REACHED...The other is HE IS EVERYWHERE...NO NEED TO REACH/FIND/LOOK for HIM...just "open your eyes and SEE HIM"..there He is RIGHT INSIDE OF YOU...seek and you shall FIND...no need to travel....anywhere....He is not far..he is WITHIN.

Keep in Chardeekalla and cool always..it helps.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Inder Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

You write:

Waheguruseeker ji

If Akal purakh is not reachable then you may need to change your title of waheguru seeker.

Your earlier statement which is posted below contradicts the above one.

Waheguru seeker ji

Nice to here from you. Waheguru is present in all of us. But we have to seek Waheguru within. That is why we are seekers.

Yes, I agree with your above statement that we all have to seek Ik Ong Kaar within because HE/SHE/IT is omnipresent, hence in all and everywhere. So, no need to reach HIM/HER/IT because Ik Ong Kaar is NOT out of reach as you had mentioned earlier.

Now you know that all of us seek Ik Ong Kaar within, so my name is very fitting to that.I have no idea why you want me to change it. But thanks for the suggestion anyway. I do appreciate it as you have always claimed to know more about others than about yourself.

I know you are known to contradict yourself many a times which does not surprise me about your self created confusion.

Are you saying that those who cann't read Guru Granth sahib ji cann't realize akal purakh.

I have never said that. How dare I play Ik Ong Kaar? I know you tend to do that quite often. Let me say again the same thing I have mentioned many times to you before in this forum that only Ik Ong Kaar knows which milestone each of us is at. Neither you, nor me, nor anyone else can find that out, no matter how much we try to pretend to play Ik Ong Kaar, out of sheer ignorance laced with lots of arrogance.

I hope you abide by Sikh rehat maryada. that states

Sikh Reht Maryada, The Definition of Sikh, Sikh Conduct & Conventions, Sikh Religion Living, India

[SIZE=-1]1. A Sikh should wake up in the ambrosial hours (three hours before the dawn), take bath and, concentrating his/her thoughts on One Immortal Being, repeat the name Waheguru (Wondrous Destroyer of darkness).[/SIZE]

You have mentioned many times before that you put more credence to Manmat than Gurmat. SRM is written by men which has lots of flaws and can be changed anytime and it should be changed with the modern times and more understanding of SGGS. In fact I wrote about SRM in this forum. Please feel free to search it and read it and let me know your thoughts about it.

SGGS is"Dhur ki Baani" which is Gurmat and can NEVER be changed by anyone.

So, anything in SRM that contradicts SGGS and its Gurmat values is Manmat for Sikhi. I thought you knew that.

To answer your question, I only abide by what SGGS, our ONLY GURU tells us.

Now your above quote from SRM regarding waking up 3 hours before dawn makes no sense, hence is antiGurmat. Our body needs rest so that it can be put to work and perform at its optimum capacity when awake. Our Gurus knew that. They never interfered with the laws of nature. There is also another thread on Amrit Vela in this forum. Please feel free to read and study it.

Now Jaap of gurmantra has become Hindu way for you. That means we have to change our Gurbani and Sikh rehat maryada. Have you got a different maryada?If so, Please share that maryada with us. otherwise accept what is there and stop misleading people.

Your parroting what you call Jaap is Hindutva which you have been trying to inroduce into Sikhi for a long time and have not been successful and never will. Yes, we have to change SRM as mentioned before. Nothing wrong with improving ourself. Is there?

Gurnmantar is very much a sikh way. Only ignorants claim it otherwise without knowing the teachings of guru granth sahib.

I have asked you many times to specify from SGGS what Gurmantar is. Just repeating the same word without giving us its meaning makes no sense. I have no idea why you have been reluctant to explaining Gurmantar in your own words rather than copying and pasting few lines from the internet. It serves no purpose but shows parroting.

I have also requested you several times that when you post a few lines from a Shabad, please post the whole Shabad and while doing so, please share the meanings in your own words so we can all understand how the particular Shabad has affected you or influenced you on the personal level.

So far you have refused to do so for the reasons only known to you.

So, I request you again to repost the previous Shabads and the ones below and explain to us in your own words so we can all learn from each other.


Thanks and looking forward to reading your own interpretation of the Shabads.

Tejwant Singh

clq bYsq sovq jwgq gur mMqRü irdY icqwir ] (1006-19, mwrU, mÚ 5)
chalat baisat sovat jaagat gur mantar ridai chitaar.
While walking and sitting, sleeping and waking, contemplate within your heart the GurMantra.


Then Guru ji writes



gur mMqR hIxs´ jo pRwxI iDRgMq jnm BRstxh ] (1356-18, shsik®qI, mÚ 5)
gur mantar heensa-y jo paraanee Dharigant janam bharsatnah.
That mortal who lacks the Guru's Mantra - cursed and contaminated is his life.
kUkrh sUkrh grDBh kwkh srpnh quil Klh ]33] (1356-18, shsik®qI, mÚ 5)
kookrah sookrah garaDh-bheh kaakah sarapneh tul khalah. ||33||
That blockhead is just a dog, a pig, a jackass, a crow, a snake. ||33|

ang 1356
[/quote]

 

[Inder singh]

Now your above quote from SRM regarding waking up 3 hours before dawn makes no sense

Read below before making useless claims. You need not to wake up as you are not believer in sikh rehat maryada.

gur siqgur kw jo isKu AKwey su Blky auiT hir nwmu iDAwvY ] (305-16, gauVI, mÚ 4)
gur satgur kaa jo sikh akhaa-ay so bhalkay uth har naam Dhi-aavai.
One who calls himself a Sikh of the Guru, the True Guru, shall rise in the early morning hours and meditate on the Lord's Name.

audmu kry Blky prBwqI iesnwnu kry AMimRq sir nwvY ] (305-17, gauVI, mÚ 4)
udam karay bhalkay parbhaatee isnaan karay amrit sar naavai.
Upon arising early in the morning, he is to bathe, and cleanse himself in the pool of nectar.

aupdyis gurU hir hir jpu jwpY siB iklivK pwp doK lih jwvY ] (305-18, gauVI, mÚ 4)
updays guroo har har jap jaapai sabh kilvikh paap dokh leh jaavai.
Following the Instructions of the Guru, he is to chant the Name of the Lord, Har, Har. All sins, misdeeds and negativity shall be erased.

iPir cVY idvsu gurbwxI gwvY bhidAw auTidAw hir nwmu iDAwvY ] (305-18, gauVI, mÚ 4)
fir charhai divas gurbaanee gaavai bahdi-aa uth-di-aa har naam Dhi-aavai.
Then, at the rising of the sun, he is to sing Gurbani; whether sitting down or standing up, he is to meditate on the Lord's Name.

jo swis igrwis iDAwey myrw hir hir so gurisKu gurU min BwvY ] (305-19, gauVI, mÚ 4)
jo saas giraas Dhi-aa-ay mayraa har har so gursikh guroo man bhaavai.
One who meditates on my Lord, Har, Har, with every breath and every morsel of food - that GurSikh becomes pleasing to the Guru's Mind.

ang 305

Guru Granth sahib stresses the need for having Gurmantra. I had quoted the verse which seem to have upset some of you. Sikhs have their gurmantra Waheguru and that is mentioned in SRM. Read below about this word in SGGS ji
)
vaahiguroo vaahiguroo vaahiguroo vaahi jee-o.
Waahay Guru, Waahay Guru, Waahay Guru, Waahay Jee-o.

kvl nYn mDur bYn koit sYn sMg soB khq mw jsod ijsih dhI Bwqu Kwih jIau ] (1402-12, sveIey mhly cauQy ky, gXMd)
kaval nain maDhur bain kot sain sang sobh kahat maa jasod jisahi dahee bhaat khaahi jee-o.
You are lotus-eyed, with sweet speech, exalted and embellished with millions of companions. Mother Yashoda invited You as Krishna to eat the sweet rice.

dyiK rUpu Aiq AnUpu moh mhw mg BeI ikMknI sbd Jnqkwr Kylu pwih jIau ] (1402-13, sveIey mhly cauQy ky, gXMd)
daykh roop at anoop moh mahaa mag bha-ee kinknee sabad jhanatkaar khayl paahi jee-o.
Gazing upon Your supremely beautiful form, and hearing the musical sounds of Your silver bells tinkling, she was intoxicated with delight.

kwl klm hukmu hwiQ khhu kaunu myit skY eIsu bMm´ü g´wnu D´wnu Drq hIAY cwih jIau ] (1402-14, sveIey mhly cauQy ky, gXMd)
kaal kalam hukam haath kahhu ka-un mayt sakai ees bamm-yu ga-yaan Dhayaan Dharat hee-ai chaahi jee-o.
Death's pen and command are in Your hands. Tell me, who can erase it? Shiva and Brahma yearn to enshrine Your spiritual wisdom in their hearts.

siq swcu sRI invwsu Awid purKu sdw quhI vwihgurU vwihgurU vwihgurU vwih jIau ]1]6] (1402-14, sveIey mhly cauQy ky, gXMd)
sat saach saree nivaas aad purakh sadaa tuhee vaahiguroo vaahiguroo vaahiguroo vaahi jee-o. ||1||6||

You are forever True, the Home of Excellence, the Primal Supreme Being. Waahay Guru, Waahay Guru, Waahay Guru, Waahay Jee-o. ||1||6||
rwm nwm prm Dwm suD buD inrIkwr bysumwr srbr kau kwih jIau ] (1402-15, sveIey mhly cauQy ky, gXMd)

raam naam param Dhaam suDh buDh nireekaar baysumaar sarbar ka-o kaahi jee-o.
You are blessed with the Lord's Name, the supreme mansion, and clear understanding. You are the Formless, Infinite Lord; who can compare to You?

suQr icq Bgq ihq ByKu DirE hrnwKsu hirE nK ibdwir jIau ] (1402-16, sveIey mhly cauQy ky, gXMd)
suthar chit bhagat hit bhaykh Dhari-o harnaakhas hari-o nakh bidaar jee-o.
For the sake of the pure-hearted devotee Prahlaad, You took the form of the man-lion, to tear apart and destroy Harnaakhash with your claws.

sMK ck® gdw pdm Awip Awpu kIE Cdm AprMpr pwrbRhm lKY kaunu qwih jIau ] (1402-17, sveIey mhly cauQy ky, gXMd)
sankh chakar gadaa padam aap aap kee-o chhadam aprampar paarbarahm lakhai ka-un taahi jee-o.
You are the Infinite Supreme Lord God; with your symbols of power, You deceived Baliraja; who can know You?

siq swcu sRI invwsu Awid purKu sdw quhI vwihgurU vwihgurU vwihgurU vwih jIau ]2]7] (1402-18, sveIey mhly cauQy ky, gXMd)
sat saach saree nivaas aad purakh sadaa tuhee vaahiguroo vaahiguroo vaahiguroo vaahi jee-o. ||2||7||
You are forever True, the Home of Excellence, the Primal Supreme Being. Waahay Guru, Waahay Guru, Waahay Guru, Waahay Jee-o. ||2||7||

ang 1402

Gurmantra is given by panj piaras when a sikh get khande bate di pahul. What gurmantra was given to you when you were adminitered pahul?

 

[vsgrewal48895]

Dear All,

I have followed this debate which IMHO is not serving any educational/spiritual purpose and has become redundant.

Cordially,

Virinder

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Comments on Chautha Pad : A Spiritual Life and why it has become mundane and lifeless.

The main objective of SPN is to create a desire in all the members from all walks of life, from any hue,creed or faith to learn about themselves. In order to learn about ourselves we should have the avenue where we can peel ourselves bit by bit so that eventually our innerself burst itself open and we can come out of our self built cocoons with our heads high because the change is coming. SPN provides this kind of avenue. Others may do that too but they are not as open to people from all faiths as SPN is.

Chautha Pad is a spiritual level which is a personal journey of a Sikh. It is like the Gurbani says, Gungei ki Mithai- in other words, when a mute and deaf person eats his/her favourite candy, he/she can only describe it through the facial expressions. No words can describe that. Same thing goes for the Chautha pad. When people start giving their own recipes from their own books rather than from our only recipe book which is SGGS, then things turn into Me-ism rather than One-ism, the only ONE we want to seek.

Ajmer Singh ji and Inder Singh ji who are good Sikhs are simply wrong in their thinking when they try to impose their way about something that is created as an internal manifestation with the help of our only GURU- SGGS.

Our Spiritual endeavour is the journey of the individual and one can only have this journey if one is on the "Soul Train " whose only engine is SGGS.

SRM contradicts many of the things in SGGS hence it needs to be modified.

The last 2 Shabads given by Inder Singh ji is to prove that a Sikh should get up 3 hours before dawn as dictated by SRM and the second one he claims has Gurmanter are contrary to both of his claims.

Both have different meanings according to me. The first one on Panna 305 has no reference of that time era which is in SRM about getting up 3 hours before dawn. It makes no sense to go against the nature. Our Gurus never did that. We as humans can not be deprived from the necessary sleep that the body requires. Yes, when we get up early, which we should,we can plan our day in a more fruitful manner and hence we have more time to breed goodness within. A Sikh starts his/her day book when he/she gets up and closes it after reciting Sohila at night.This is the common sense that our Gurus taught us through SGGS,our ONLY GURU.

The second Shabad on Panna 1402.which Inder Singh ji gave to prove Gurmantra is also misleading. I have requested him many a times that when he copies and posts any Shabads in full, he should also give us his interpretation, the message he gets from the Shabad. As the Sadh Sangat may have noticed, it has not happened so far. There could be several reasons for that. Some come to mind and I may be wrong, either he does not understand what is being said by our Gurus or if he does then whatever the true message is may go against his own self created beliefs based on something else than SGGS, our ONLY GURU. I hope I am wrong in my assessement and if I am, I will apologise to him in the forum. The only way to check that is when he gives us in his own words what he understands from the message of our Gurus given to us in SGGS- our ONLY GURU.

The second Shabad he claimed to have Gurmanter is also his misconception. The second Shabad talks about the WOW! and the AWE! factor of Ik Ong Kaar in details. Vaheeguru as mentioned in the Shabad means," I am WOWED by YOUR creation, my Ik Ong Kaar". It shows us how our Gurus were in awe with all that surrounds us and gave it a beautiful poetic way to express it.

In closing, I would urge all to seek your own journey on this "Soul Train" whose only engine is SGGS and find your own seat the way you feel comfortable and have a blast. You will enjoy every moment of it.

Tejwant Singh

Forum Members - The thread is now closed. aad0002