Chautha Pad: A Spiritual Life

[spnadmin]

Re: Chauttah Pad: A spiritual life

Inder ji,

Thanks for the clarifications. Actually I am inspired that you posted the article about Naam Mantra Jap. This can be understood as something that is broad, personal, and it gives us energy as well as requires energy from us. It has immediate life-changing results when we allow it because "jap" is taken within and is used to inform life and make it more ethical. Jap has a purpose -- to help us discover the Divine goodness within. It includes connection with the Divine in a very proactive way. Naam Mantra Jap as part of simran and as part of sadhana has a surgical and therefore an exact effect on the heart mind and soul. It requires direct focus upon the Naam of Hari, of Waheguru. Individuals use a variety of mantras. The effect remains that of feeling the vibration of very sacred sounds within, which are taken within. Then the heart and mind and soul are fed. And our inner ills are healed.


ਕਿਰਤੁ ਨ ਮਿਟਈ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਨ ਬੂਝੈ ਪਸੂਆ ਮਾਹਿ ਸਮਾਨਾ ॥੫॥
kirath n mittee hukam n boojhai pasooaa maahi samaanaa ||5||
Past actions cannot be erased; without understanding the Hukam of the Lord's Command, they become beasts. ||5||


ਹਾਥ ਕਮੰਡਲੁ ਕਾਪੜੀਆ ਮਨਿ ਤ੍ਰਿਸਨਾ ਉਪਜੀ ਭਾਰੀ ॥
haathh kamanddal kaaparreeaa man thrisanaa oupajee bhaaree ||
With bowl in hand, wearing his patched coat, great desires well up in his mind.


ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ ਤਜਿ ਕਰਿ ਕਾਮਿ ਵਿਆਪਿਆ ਚਿਤੁ ਲਾਇਆ ਪਰ ਨਾਰੀ ॥
eisathree thaj kar kaam viaapiaa chith laaeiaa par naaree ||
Abandoning his own wife, he is engrossed in sexual desire; his thoughts are on the wives of others.


ਸਿਖ ਕਰੇ ਕਰਿ ਸਬਦੁ ਨ ਚੀਨੈ ਲੰਪਟੁ ਹੈ ਬਾਜਾਰੀ ॥
sikh karae kar sabadh n cheenai lanpatt hai baajaaree ||
He teaches and preaches, but does not contemplate the Shabad; he is bought and sold on the street.

ਅੰਤਰਿ ਬਿਖੁ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਨਿਭਰਾਤੀ ਤਾ ਜਮੁ ਕਰੇ ਖੁਆਰੀ ॥੬॥
anthar bikh baahar nibharaathee thaa jam karae khuaaree ||6||
With poison within, he pretends to be free of doubt; he is ruined and humiliated by the Messenger of Death. ||6||

ਸੋ ਸੰਨਿਆਸੀ ਜੋ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਸੇਵੈ ਵਿਚਹੁ ਆਪੁ ਗਵਾਏ ॥
so sanniaasee jo sathigur saevai vichahu aap gavaaeae ||
He alone is a Sannyaasi, who serves the True Guru, and removes his self-conceit from within.


ਛਾਦਨ ਭੋਜਨ ਕੀ ਆਸ ਨ ਕਰਈ ਅਚਿੰਤੁ ਮਿਲੈ ਸੋ ਪਾਏ ॥
shhaadhan bhojan kee aas n karee achinth milai so paaeae ||
He does not ask for clothes or food; without asking, he accepts whatever he receives.


ਬਕੈ ਨ ਬੋਲੈ ਖਿਮਾ ਧਨੁ ਸੰਗ੍ਰਹੈ ਤਾਮਸੁ ਨਾਮਿ ਜਲਾਏ ॥
bakai n bolai khimaa dhhan sangrehai thaamas naam jalaaeae ||
He does not speak empty words; he gathers in the wealth of tolerance, and burns away his anger with the Naam.


ਧਨੁ ਗਿਰਹੀ ਸੰਨਿਆਸੀ ਜੋਗੀ ਜਿ ਹਰਿ ਚਰਣੀ ਚਿਤੁ ਲਾਏ ॥੭॥
dhhan girehee sanniaasee jogee j har charanee chith laaeae ||7||
Blessed is such a householder, Sannyaasi and Yogi, who focuses his consciousness on the Lord's feet. ||7||


ਆਸ ਨਿਰਾਸ ਰਹੈ ਸੰਨਿਆਸੀ ਏਕਸੁ ਸਿਉ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਏ ॥
aas niraas rehai sanniaasee eaekas sio liv laaeae ||
Amidst hope, the Sannyaasi remains unmoved by hope; he remains lovingly focused on the One Lord.


ਹਰਿ ਰਸੁ ਪੀਵੈ ਤਾ ਸਾਤਿ ਆਵੈ ਨਿਜ ਘਰਿ ਤਾੜੀ ਲਾਏ ॥
har ras peevai thaa saath aavai nij ghar thaarree laaeae ||
He drinks in the sublime essence of the Lord, and so finds peace and tranquility; in the home of his own being, he remains absorbed in the deep trance of meditation.


ਮਨੂਆ ਨ ਡੋਲੈ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਬੂਝੈ ਧਾਵਤੁ ਵਰਜਿ ਰਹਾਏ ॥
manooaa n ddolai guramukh boojhai dhhaavath varaj rehaaeae ||
His mind does not waver; as Gurmukh, he understands. He restrains it from wandering out.


ਗ੍ਰਿਹੁ ਸਰੀਰੁ ਗੁਰਮਤੀ ਖੋਜੇ ਨਾਮੁ ਪਦਾਰਥੁ ਪਾਏ ॥੮॥
grihu sareer guramathee khojae naam padhaarathh paaeae ||8||
Following the Guru's Teachings, he searches the home of his body, and obtains the wealth of the Naam. ||8||


ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਬਿਸਨੁ ਮਹੇਸੁ ਸਰੇਸਟ ਨਾਮਿ ਰਤੇ ਵੀਚਾਰੀ ॥
brehamaa bisan mehaes saraesatt naam rathae veechaaree ||
Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva are exalted, imbued with contemplative meditation on the Naam.


ਖਾਣੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਗਗਨ ਪਤਾਲੀ ਜੰਤਾ ਜੋਤਿ ਤੁਮਾਰੀ ॥
khaanee baanee gagan pathaalee janthaa joth thumaaree ||
The sources of creation, speech, the heavens and the underworld, all beings and creatures, are infused with Your Light.


ਸਭਿ ਸੁਖ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨਾਮ ਧੁਨਿ ਬਾਣੀ ਸਚੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਉਰ ਧਾਰੀ ॥
sabh sukh mukath naam dhhun baanee sach naam our dhhaaree ||
All comforts and liberation are found in the Naam, and the vibrations of the Guru's Bani; I have enshrined the True Name within my heart.

In all the conversation so far we have read that the purpose of naam simran is not to become a "sitting" comtemplative and to consider that the final state. But to permit Guru's grace to change us within the entire expanse of our lives and His creation.

ਧਨੁ ਗਿਰਹੀ ਸੰਨਿਆਸੀ ਜੋਗੀ ਜਿ ਹਰਿ ਚਰਣੀ ਚਿਤੁ ਲਾਏ ॥੭॥
dhhan girehee sanniaasee jogee j har charanee chith laaeae ||7||
Blessed is such a householder, Sannyaasi and Yogi, who focuses his consciousness on the Lord's feet. ||7||

 

[Inder singh]

Re: Chauttah Pad: A spiritual life

In all the conversation so far we have read that the purpose of naam simran is not to become a "sitting" comtemplative and to consider that the final state. But to permit Guru's grace to change us within the entire expanse of our lives and His creation.

Aad ji

Nobody said that purpose of naam simran is to sit in posture forever. But one has to devote time on daily basis to sit and contemplate upon God's naam that we call jap. God's grace does not come on its own. One has to make efforts in that direction and that effort starts with naam jap.Only sitting contemplative stage for sometime everyday will lead us to final stage where it becomes ajapa jaaap.

Please read bandginama for help as you believe in that.

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Chauttah Pad: A spiritual life

Inder ji

I have read Bandiginama about 6 times. But thank you. Point of Gurbani is to become better person, not a better sadhu. Goodness with Guru's grace leads to discovery of the GOODNESS WITHIN. Goodness leads to GODLINESS.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Re: Chauttah Pad: A spiritual life

Aad ji

Nobody said that purpose of naam simran is to sit in posture forever. But one has to devote time on daily basis to sit and contemplate upon God's naam that we call jap. God's grace does not come on its own. One has to make efforts in that direction and that effort starts with naam jap.Only sitting contemplative stage for sometime everyday will lead us to final stage where it becomes ajapa jaaap.

Please read bandginama for help as you believe in that.

Inder Ji,
Gurfateh.

Can you quote one complete shabd from sggs that gives even an approximate time thta must be spent SITTING DOWN daily in meditation/contemplation. ( ALL Shabads mention swaas swaas..saas grass, 24/7 atheh pehar etc..CONTINOUS...FOREVER.)
Maybe I missed the one that supports of your stated purpose of Naam simran.
Thanks in advance Ji.

 

[Inder singh]

Re: Chauttah Pad: A spiritual life

Inder Ji,
Gurfateh.

Can you quote one complete shabd from sggs that gives even an approximate time thta must be spent SITTING DOWN daily in meditation/contemplation. ( ALL Shabads mention swaas swaas..saas grass, 24/7 atheh pehar etc..CONTINOUS...FOREVER.)
Maybe I missed the one that supports of your stated purpose of Naam simran.
Thanks in advance Ji.

Giani ji

This simran with swass swass, gras and 24/7 is ajappa jap ( chant without unchanting) and means it has gone in your body system. This develops only and only if you practice it sitting in samadhi in the beginning and then on daily basis to sustain it.

There is no time limit set. It all depends upon our deeds in life and love towards akal purakh and total submission to Him thereby forsaking the cleverness of our mind.

experineced Gursikhs say that those who get in the stage of Ajappa jap( Very few) have this going on when lying unconscious on death bed.

 

[Inder singh]

Re: Chauttah Pad: A spiritual life

Inder ji

I have read Bandiginama about 6 times. But thank you. Point of Gurbani is to become better person, not a better sadhu. Goodness with Guru's grace leads to discovery of the GOODNESS WITHIN. Goodness leads to GODLINESS.

To reach God is not the prerogative of only sikh religion. Other religions have their teachings as well. Sikhism teaches simpler way stressing that God can be realized while leading a householder's life. No one ever said that one has to renounce worldly life to achieve realization.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Re: Chauttah Pad: A spiritual life

To reach God is not the prerogative of only sikh religion. Other religions have their teachings as well. Sikhism teaches simpler way stressing that God can be realized while leading a householder's life. No one ever said that one has to renounce worldly life to achieve realization.

Inder Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

Your statement in BOLD makes no sense from Sikhi view point. It may make sense to you from the Hindutva view point.

Ik Ong Kaar is omnipresent, hence in ALL without exception. So reaching Ik Ong Kaar is not part of Sikhi equation, it may be in Hindu philosophy as you happen to propagete it. In Shabad Hazere we chant and instill the following in our thought process daily:

"Merei Lal jio, tera anth nah jaana. Tun JAL,THAL,MAHIAL- bhar bhur leena- Tun apei sarabh Samanah."

In other words, My beloved, no one knows your begining nor end ( because every begining has an end). You are in organic and in inorganic- in ALL, and You create yourself( which in Mool manter Guru Nanak describes as Ajuni Saibung).

Tejwant Singh

 

[Inder singh]

Re: Chauttah Pad: A spiritual life

http://www.sikhreview.org/june2000/naamology.htm

Discovery of Self through Naam-Simran​

Gulshan Jeet Singh*​

* 5-Rampur Mandi Road, Dehradun-248001. U.P.
Naam Simran is a purely spiritual experience within reach of all humanity irrespective of race creed on social status. Success varies and depends on the practitioner’s earnestness as well as the Master’s grace.
Why we must practice ‘Naam simran’? Because it brings inner tranquillity. This practice is superior to all other forms of worship. It is at the root of Gurbani. It places no restriction of time and space and does not need the help of any other person or material posture.Amongst all religious practices ‘Naam-simran’ is the simplest, a purifier for both mind and heart. It is like the all-pervasive light of the sun.
‘Naam-simran’ reins in the mind and intellect (man aur budhi) from within, order to understand the physical phenomenal word and transcend its wisdom. Naam is the holiest of the holy; practice of simran destroys the cause of our bondage, namely, our Karma (good or bad actions). Even the greatest sinner attains to the supreme position through Naam-simran. The only focus that one discovers by study of Guru Granth Sahib is that we must always and constantly meditate on Him and His Name. Just as the furnace melts gold and other metals so as to purify them, so the Name of the Lord acts as the best solvent of all problems of this world. No evil can befall one who is engrossed in Naam.
There are however some pitfalls. Sadly ‘Naam-simran’ has become a topic of discussion rather than of practice amongst our intellectuals. Argument is the antithesis of meditation. Efforts for conducting seminars on topic are merely intellectual exercises, missing the Naam - Amrit and initiation.
Internalising the Divine Spirit: The word ‘Naam’ is the object of simran (meditation) whereas the word ‘Simran’ is remembering, uttering, or Jap in meditation. Thus ‘Naam-simran’ is remembrance of God’s Name. The question arises, what or whose name? The simple answer is Satnaam Waheguru the name of True Wonderful Lord, who is All-pervading True and Eternal. The Lord is One Alone, Who Ever was, Is Now and Ever shall be, - the Akal Purukh, ‘Waheguru’. His name is True. Guru Nanak and successor Gurus, throughout the holy Gurbani, maintain that one must contemplate upon formless God, Infinite God alone, Who is Creator, and dwells everywhere.
"Life makes it opportune
To seek the glorious Divine
The Divine is within and not without
Properly attune-or One’s out".

Guru Nanak: Raag Prabhati​

"niralamb nirahar nehkewal nirbhav tadi lawai" (....resting mind on the Self, Detached, Hungerless and Fearless God). In an answer to the Siddhas, Guru Nanak replies thus: "antar bahar eko janai" - focus the mind upon One Lord (who is One within and outward)
Fix thy mind on the Enternal Being, the True Purusha" sat-purkh akal murat ridai dharoh dhian".
"Ved puran jas gun gavat tako naam hiai mai dharre".
Guru Tegh Bahadar says, in Raga Gaudi. Enshrine yea His Name in thy heart Whose praise is sung by Vedas and Puranas".
Guru Arjun : Sukhmani Raag Gaudi.
"naam ke dhare sagle jant-naam ke dhare khand brahmand,
Naam ke dhare sagal akar-naam ke dhare puria sabh bhavan."
Thy Name (the All Pervading Divine Spirit) is support of all beings, O Lord.
Thy Name is the support of the worlds, verify the Universe.
Thy Name is Support of all life forms.
Yea, Thy Name is the support of all continents and spheres.
The Tenth Master, Guru Govind Singh, defined the objective as follow :
"tahi ko dhian parman hie jou tha, ab hai ar agai u jaiv hai".
A Slow Process : We must understand that if our meagre and early practice of ‘Naam-simran’ does not produce any earth-shaking result we should not lose patience. We should feel encouraged by the belief that the path has been found out, and it is only a question of time when we will reach our destination.
There are some hymns which must necessarily be taken from the Guru Granth Sahib with the help of a pious friend, or elder or scholar - Granthi. The most popular technique is the repetition and daily reciting of Gurbani. ‘Sat Naam’ or ‘Waheguru’ is very powerful jaap; several practitioners reveal that without ‘Satnm, Waheguru’ the seeker cannot achieve his purpose. For the name and the object named are not different. When the heart is purified by the practice of Pranava, or Dhun/Naad, the practice hears same sound. In the first stage, one feels a thrilling sensation in the skin, gradually passes through several stages to reach last and final (tenth) stage; that through devotion to Waheguru, the Self is known, and the difficulties are removed.
Realisation Within: By practicing ‘Naam-simran’ the seeker of Truth, or Gursikh, comes to know the secret of Gurbani within himself, in second to fourth stage he perceives the finer spring of words, hear cosmic (Naad) sound, next he starts loosening of worldly sense and at last stage the knowledge of Divine Self comes in full effulgence.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Re: Chauttah Pad: A spiritual life

Discovery of Self through Naam-Simran

Discovery of Self through Naam-Simran

Gulshan Jeet Singh*​

* 5-Rampur Mandi Road, Dehradun-248001. U.P.
Naam Simran is a purely spiritual experience within reach of all humanity irrespective of race creed on social status. Success varies and depends on the practitioner’s earnestness as well as the Master’s grace.
Why we must practice ‘Naam simran’? Because it brings inner tranquillity. This practice is superior to all other forms of worship. It is at the root of Gurbani. It places no restriction of time and space and does not need the help of any other person or material posture.Amongst all religious practices ‘Naam-simran’ is the simplest, a purifier for both mind and heart. It is like the all-pervasive light of the sun.
‘Naam-simran’ reins in the mind and intellect (man aur budhi) from within, order to understand the physical phenomenal word and transcend its wisdom. Naam is the holiest of the holy; practice of simran destroys the cause of our bondage, namely, our Karma (good or bad actions). Even the greatest sinner attains to the supreme position through Naam-simran. The only focus that one discovers by study of Guru Granth Sahib is that we must always and constantly meditate on Him and His Name. Just as the furnace melts gold and other metals so as to purify them, so the Name of the Lord acts as the best solvent of all problems of this world. No evil can befall one who is engrossed in Naam.
There are however some pitfalls. Sadly ‘Naam-simran’ has become a topic of discussion rather than of practice amongst our intellectuals. Argument is the antithesis of meditation. Efforts for conducting seminars on topic are merely intellectual exercises, missing the Naam - Amrit and initiation.
Internalising the Divine Spirit: The word ‘Naam’ is the object of simran (meditation) whereas the word ‘Simran’ is remembering, uttering, or Jap in meditation. Thus ‘Naam-simran’ is remembrance of God’s Name. The question arises, what or whose name? The simple answer is Satnaam Waheguru the name of True Wonderful Lord, who is All-pervading True and Eternal. The Lord is One Alone, Who Ever was, Is Now and Ever shall be, - the Akal Purukh, ‘Waheguru’. His name is True. Guru Nanak and successor Gurus, throughout the holy Gurbani, maintain that one must contemplate upon formless God, Infinite God alone, Who is Creator, and dwells everywhere.
"Life makes it opportune
To seek the glorious Divine
The Divine is within and not without
Properly attune-or One’s out".

Guru Nanak: Raag Prabhati​

"niralamb nirahar nehkewal nirbhav tadi lawai" (....resting mind on the Self, Detached, Hungerless and Fearless God). In an answer to the Siddhas, Guru Nanak replies thus: "antar bahar eko janai" - focus the mind upon One Lord (who is One within and outward)
Fix thy mind on the Enternal Being, the True Purusha" sat-purkh akal murat ridai dharoh dhian".
"Ved puran jas gun gavat tako naam hiai mai dharre".
Guru Tegh Bahadar says, in Raga Gaudi. Enshrine yea His Name in thy heart Whose praise is sung by Vedas and Puranas".
Guru Arjun : Sukhmani Raag Gaudi.
"naam ke dhare sagle jant-naam ke dhare khand brahmand,
Naam ke dhare sagal akar-naam ke dhare puria sabh bhavan."
Thy Name (the All Pervading Divine Spirit) is support of all beings, O Lord.
Thy Name is the support of the worlds, verify the Universe.
Thy Name is Support of all life forms.
Yea, Thy Name is the support of all continents and spheres.
The Tenth Master, Guru Govind Singh, defined the objective as follow :
"tahi ko dhian parman hie jou tha, ab hai ar agai u jaiv hai".
A Slow Process : We must understand that if our meagre and early practice of ‘Naam-simran’ does not produce any earth-shaking result we should not lose patience. We should feel encouraged by the belief that the path has been found out, and it is only a question of time when we will reach our destination.
There are some hymns which must necessarily be taken from the Guru Granth Sahib with the help of a pious friend, or elder or scholar - Granthi. The most popular technique is the repetition and daily reciting of Gurbani. ‘Sat Naam’ or ‘Waheguru’ is very powerful jaap; several practitioners reveal that without ‘Satnm, Waheguru’ the seeker cannot achieve his purpose. For the name and the object named are not different. When the heart is purified by the practice of Pranava, or Dhun/Naad, the practice hears same sound. In the first stage, one feels a thrilling sensation in the skin, gradually passes through several stages to reach last and final (tenth) stage; that through devotion to Waheguru, the Self is known, and the difficulties are removed.
Realisation Within: By practicing ‘Naam-simran’ the seeker of Truth, or Gursikh, comes to know the secret of Gurbani within himself, in second to fourth stage he perceives the finer spring of words, hear cosmic (Naad) sound, next he starts loosening of worldly sense and at last stage the knowledge of Divine Self comes in full effulgence.

The above article/essay is nothing but based on subjective reality- personal experience which can neither be transported to another nor can it be taught to another to experience. The first paragraph shows its subjective nature:

"Naam Simran is a purely spiritual experience within reach of all humanity irrespective of race creed on social status. Success varies and depends on the practitioner’s earnestness as well as the Master’s grace."

The above shows we have to blindly trust the writer as nothing he wrote can be verified in an objective manner.

This is all contrary to the teachings of SGGS which are based on Objective reality. Hence, it has nothing to do with Gurmat values but all to do with Bush's values " Trust me I know what I am talking about and I know what I am doing". And we know the rest of the story.

SGGS is a tool box which teaches us how to be become pragmatists so that we can objectively help all humanity irrespective of hue,creed or faith.

Tejwant Singh

 

[Inder singh]

So reaching Ik Ong Kaar is not part of Sikhi equation, it may be in Hindu philosophy as you happen to propagete it.

Waheguru seeker ji

Nice to here from you. Waheguru is present in all of us. But we have to seek Waheguru within. That is why we are seekers.

Naam tat sabh hee sir jaapai.
The essence of the Naam, the Name of the Lord, is known to be the most exalted and excellent of all.

bin naavai dukh kaal santaapai.
Without the Name, one is afflicted by pain and death.

tato tat milai man maanai.
When one's essence merges into the essence, the mind is satisfied and fulfilled.

doojaa jaa-ay ikat ghar aanai.
Duality is gone, and one enters into the home of the One Lord.

bolai pavnaa gagan garjai.
The breath blows across the sky of the Tenth Gate and vibrates.

naanak nihchal milan sahjai. ||50||
O Nanak, the mortal then intuitively meets the eternal, unchanging Lord. ||50||


ang 943

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Inder Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

Thanks for correcting your earlier statement which is posted below and created falsehood in an antiSikhi way.

Your earlier statement:

To reach God is not the prerogative of only Sikh religion.

Waheguru seeker ji

Nice to here from you. Waheguru is present in all of us. But we have to seek Waheguru within. That is why we are seekers.

Thanks for agreeing that Ik Ong Kaar is omnipresent which mean in all,hence not away so, HE/SHE/IT has to be reached.

As requested before, please give us the meaning/interpretation of the Shabad in your own words rather than copying and pasting distorted version which insult Gurbani. You as a Sikh Scholar should know that.

So I ask you again to share your Gurmat wisdom regarding the following Shabad in your own words.

Thanks and looking forward to yoru sharing in your own words this Shabad and the other two you have copied and pasted the literal translations of. As mentioned many times before, literal translation is NOT the interpretation, hence one can not grasp the true meaning of the Shabads.

Thanks

Tejwant Singh

Naam tat sabh hee sir jaapai.
The essence of the Naam, the Name of the Lord, is known to be the most exalted and excellent of all.

bin naavai dukh kaal santaapai.
Without the Name, one is afflicted by pain and death.

tato tat milai man maanai.
When one's essence merges into the essence, the mind is satisfied and fulfilled.

doojaa jaa-ay ikat ghar aanai.
Duality is gone, and one enters into the home of the One Lord.

bolai pavnaa gagan garjai.
The breath blows across the sky of the Tenth Gate and vibrates.

naanak nihchal milan sahjai. ||50||
O Nanak, the mortal then intuitively meets the eternal, unchanging Lord. ||50||


ang 943

 

[Inder singh]

Thanks for correcting your earlier statement which is posted below and created falsehood in an antiSikhi way.

Waheguruseeker ji

My statement was not one liner. The full statement is given below in bold.

quote

To reach God is not the prerogative of only Sikh religion. Other religions have their teachings as well. Sikhism teaches simpler way stressing that God can be realized while leading a householder's life. No one ever said that one has to renounce worldly life to achieve realization

unquote

It says that sikhism does not claim that only it has exclusive rights to reach God and other religions are false.
Our Gurus have shown a simpler way to realize God while sitting at home and leading a householder's life. in other words we do not have to renounce a householder's life and go to forests to realize God.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Re: Chauttah Pad: A spiritual life

Giani ji

This simran with swass swass, gras and 24/7 is ajappa jap ( chant without unchanting) and means it has gone in your body system. This develops only and only if you practice it sitting in samadhi in the beginning and then on daily basis to sustain it.

There is no time limit set. It all depends upon our deeds in life and love towards akal purakh and total submission to Him thereby forsaking the cleverness of our mind.

experineced Gursikhs say that those who get in the stage of Ajappa jap( Very few) have this going on when lying unconscious on death bed.

Inder singh ji,
gurfateh.

Thats what intrigues...why have Guru Ji and all the other contributors of SGGS - gone straight to ADVANCED STAGE. NOT a single shabd on..HOW TO BEGIN ??
Why leave the Beginning..the METHODOLOGY..to "GUESS WORK"...and thats exactly waht the essays on nama japp are GUESS WORK by the Authors own experiences.

Guru nanak ji does say that even with Lakh jeebha..and times that by lakh..and mouthing repeating..wont help..its NOT ENOUGH. So imho we are taking the meaning wrong...
JUST like there are NO "LEARNING STAGES" to BREATHING/LEARNING TO BREATHE...the split second the babay comes OUT..he/she begins to BREATHE.. STRAIGHT TO ADVANCE STAGE...similarly GURBANI Has to be the LIVING EXPERIENCE..from day one..from Childhood we have to SPEAK TRUTH..live TRUTH..always TRUTH no matter if we lose our life for it...and so on..all the other qualities/attributes of Waheguru..LOVE all, humility, mithh bollnna...etc etc have to be Practised...then as we LIVE GURBANI..we do ajappa jaap..similar to BREATHING.

Thansk for the essay too.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Waheguruseeker ji

My statement was not one liner. The full statement is given below in bold.

quote

To reach God is not the prerogative of only Sikh religion. Other religions have their teachings as well. Sikhism teaches simpler way stressing that God can be realized while leading a householder's life. No one ever said that one has to renounce worldly life to achieve realization

unquote

It says that sikhism does not claim that only it has exclusive rights to reach God and other religions are false.
Our Gurus have shown a simpler way to realize God while sitting at home and leading a householder's life. in other words we do not have to renounce a householder's life and go to forests to realize God.

Inder Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

Once again you are distorting your own statement. You did agree in your post in response to mine after I had objected to your initial distortion by letting you know that Ik Ong Kaar is omnipresent, hence does not need to be reached. Once that is accepted, then the rest would naturally fit in. Our Gurus never claimed that Sikhi is exclusive but all inclusive, so your point of argument becomes mute.

Secondly, life of Miri- Piri which includes grasthi does not require for us to SIT at home and parrot some magic words as you have insisted all along. Parroting is parroting whether one sits at home and does it or one does it in the forest because it is done alone whereas Sikhi requires active participation of all. "Mil Sadh Sangat, bhaj keval Naam".

The idea of grasthi is to follow the teachings of SGGS by studying and understanding them so that we can breed goodness within and hence interact and chip in the world in a fruitful manner, which is totally contrary to your concept of parroting which is a Hindu mentality that you have been trying so hard to introduce in this beautiful pragmatic life of Miri- Piri of Sikhi and with the grace of Ik Ong Kaar has not been successful and never will be.

Your above posted essay does the same which is totally against the teachings of SGGS.I wish you would read and study the things before posting them, just to check if they pass our benchmark which is SGGS- our ONLY GURU.

Tejwant Singh

ps: I am still waiting for your Gurmat enlightenment by interpretating the Shabads in your own words that you have copied and pasted in the forum.

 

[Inder singh]

we do ajappa jaap..similar to BREATHING.

Giani ji

Gurbani says about jaap on each and every ang of SGGS ji. Gurbani talks about chautha pad or dasam duar. When one one takes Amrit , panj piaras give us Gurmantra and ask us to do simran on that. I find strange when some Amritdhari sikhs deny this.

Regarding ajapa jap,You do not have to do anything for ajappa jap.It is unchanted chant.

Ajpw jwpu n vIsrY Awid jugwid smwie ] (1291-4, mlwr, mÚ 1)
ajpaa jaap na veesrai aad jugaad samaa-ay.
It does not forget the Chant which is chanted without chanting; it is immersed in the Primal Lord God of the ages.

siB sKIAw pMcy imly gurmuiK inj Gir vwsu ] (1291-5, mlwr, mÚ 1)
sabh sakhee-aa panchay milay gurmukh nij ghar vaas.


Upon becoming a Gurmukh (spiritual being), all the sensese are blessed with the five virtues, and one dwells in the Home of the Self deep within
ang 1291

Please share with us what type of ajapa jap you are experiencing as you seem to be lucky to get to that satge without effort.

 

[Inder singh]

,

by letting you know that Ik Ong Kaar is omnipresent, hence does not need to be reached.

Waheguruseeker ji

If Akal purakh is not reachable then you may need to change your title of waheguru seeker.

The idea of grasthi is to follow the teachings of SGGS by studying and understanding them so that we can breed goodness within and hence interact and chip in the world in a fruitful manner

Are you saying that those who cann't read Guru Granth sahib ji cann't realize akal purakh.

Secondly, life of Miri- Piri which includes grasthi does not require for us to SIT at home and parrot some magic words----------


which is totally contrary to your concept of parroting which is a Hindu mentality that you have been trying so hard to introduce in this beautiful pragmatic life of Miri- Piri of Sikhi and with the grace of Ik Ong Kaar has not been successful and never will be

I hope you abide by Sikh rehat maryada. that states

quote

Sikh Reht Maryada, The Definition of Sikh, Sikh Conduct & Conventions, Sikh Religion Living, India

[SIZE=-1]1. A Sikh should wake up in the ambrosial hours (three hours before the dawn), take bath and, concentrating his/her thoughts on One Immortal Being, repeat the name Waheguru (Wondrous Destroyer of darkness).[/SIZE]

unquote

Now Jaap of gurmantra has become Hindu way for you. That means we have to change our Gurbani and Sikh rehat maryada. Have you got a different maryada?If so, Please share that maryada with us. otherwise accept what is there and stop misleading people.

Gurnmantar is very much a sikh way. Only ignorants claim it otherwise without knowing the teachings of guru granth sahib.

clq bYsq sovq jwgq gur mMqRü irdY icqwir ] (1006-19, mwrU, mÚ 5)
chalat baisat sovat jaagat gur mantar ridai chitaar.
While walking and sitting, sleeping and waking, contemplate within your heart the GurMantra.


Then Guru ji writes



gur mMqR hIxs´ jo pRwxI iDRgMq jnm BRstxh ] (1356-18, shsik®qI, mÚ 5)
gur mantar heensa-y jo paraanee Dharigant janam bharsatnah.
That mortal who lacks the Guru's Mantra - cursed and contaminated is his life.
kUkrh sUkrh grDBh kwkh srpnh quil Klh ]33] (1356-18, shsik®qI, mÚ 5)
kookrah sookrah garaDh-bheh kaakah sarapneh tul khalah. ||33||
That blockhead is just a dog, a pig, a jackass, a crow, a snake. ||33|

ang 1356

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh
Chutha Pad in the opinion of das is state of rising above the three qualities enthused by mammon. But it could not not be obtained by self actions. Only mercy of Akal could get us this.Akal Bless.

 

[Inder singh]

Gurfateh
Chutha Pad in the opinion of das is state of rising above the three qualities enthused by mammon. But it could not not be obtained by self actions. Only mercy of Akal could get us this.Akal Bless.

Everything is in God's will. His grace is showered on those who deserve it. So without efforts there is no Grace.


nwim smwvY jo Bwfw hoie ] (158-14, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 3)
naam samaavai jo bhaadaa ho-ay.
The Naam, the Name of the Lord, is collected in the vessel of the mind.


aUNDY BWfY itkY n koie ] (158-14, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 3)
ooNDhai bhaaNdai tikai na ko-ay.
Nothing is collected if the vessel is upside-down.


gur sbdI min nwim invwsu ] (158-15, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 3)
gur sabdee man naam nivaas.
Through the Word of the Guru's Shabad, the Naam abides within the mind.


nwnk scu BWfw ijsu sbd ipAws ]4]3]23] (158-15, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 3)
naanak sach bhaaNdaa jis sabad pi-aas. ||4||3||23||
O Nanak, True is that vessel of the mind, which thirsts for the Shabad.

ang 158

 

[spnadmin]

,


Waheguruseeker ji

If Akal purakh is not reachable then you may need to change your title of waheguru seeker.


Are you saying that those who cann't read Guru Granth sahib ji cann't realize akal purakh.

I hope you abide by Sikh rehat maryada. that states

quote

Sikh Reht Maryada, The Definition of Sikh, Sikh Conduct & Conventions, Sikh Religion Living, India

[SIZE=-1]1. A Sikh should wake up in the ambrosial hours (three hours before the dawn), take bath and, concentrating his/her thoughts on One Immortal Being, repeat the name Waheguru (Wondrous Destroyer of darkness).[/SIZE]

unquote

Now Jaap of gurmantra has become Hindu way for you. That means we have to change our Gurbani and Sikh rehat maryada. Have you got a different maryada?If so, Please share that maryada with us. otherwise accept what is there and stop misleading people.

Gurnmantar is very much a sikh way. Only ignorants claim it otherwise without knowing the teachings of guru granth sahib.

clq bYsq sovq jwgq gur mMqRü irdY icqwir ] (1006-19, mwrU, mÚ 5)
chalat baisat sovat jaagat gur mantar ridai chitaar.
While walking and sitting, sleeping and waking, contemplate within your heart the GurMantra.


Then Guru ji writes



gur mMqR hIxs´ jo pRwxI iDRgMq jnm BRstxh ] (1356-18, shsik®qI, mÚ 5)
gur mantar heensa-y jo paraanee Dharigant janam bharsatnah.
That mortal who lacks the Guru's Mantra - cursed and contaminated is his life.
kUkrh sUkrh grDBh kwkh srpnh quil Klh ]33] (1356-18, shsik®qI, mÚ 5)
kookrah sookrah garaDh-bheh kaakah sarapneh tul khalah. ||33||
That blockhead is just a dog, a pig, a jackass, a crow, a snake. ||33|

ang 1356

Inder Singh ji

Please be warned that it is not acceptable to back up charges against another member with a bit of Gurbani to make your point. You are not in this instance using Gurbani shabads to illustrate your argument, you are using part of a shabad to insult another member. It is disrespectful both to the member and to Guruji to do this.

I anticipate your remonstrances against me. You will say that this is favoritism. Keep in mind that my favorite of all is Guruji and He and His voice is not to be used as a hockey puck hit hard to punish the opposition. You have made your point in your own words. Do not do this again.

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh

Efforts too are in control of God. If they are deemed to be our hands then we are in Sato Guna and not in Chautha Pad.
ਪੰਨਾ 749, ਸਤਰ 8
ਮੁਕਤਿ ਭੁਗਤਿ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਤੇਰੀ ਸੇਵਾ ਜਿਸੁ ਤੂੰ ਆਪਿ ਕਰਾਇਹਿ ॥
मुकति भुगति जुगति तेरी सेवा जिसु तूं आपि कराइहि ॥
Mukaṯ bẖugaṯ jugaṯ ṯerī sevā jis ṯūʼn āp karā▫ihi.
Liberation, comfort and proper lifestyle come from serving You; You alone cause us to serve You.
ਮਃ 5 - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]