Chautha Pad: A Spiritual Life

[spnadmin]

Re: Chauttah Pad: A spiritual life

Inder ji

Forgive me -- But you are the one who made the accusation that one or more forum members said that naam japna is a useless exercise. So now you cannot back-pedal and ask me to re-read all the comments to see who said it. You made the claim so now... Please identify the person or persons who said that naam japna is a useless exercise. It is your turn.

Inder ji - I will repeat myself this time in blue - as these were the comments of moderator, not participant.

I repeat

Forgive me -- But you are the one who made the accusation that one or more forum members said that naam japna is a useless exercise. So now you cannot back-pedal and ask me to re-read all the comments to see who said it. You made the claim so now... Please identify the person or persons who said that naam japna is a useless exercise. It is your turn.

If you feel it is not your job to reply as you said, "It is not my job to point out the posts of others for you" then I can safely conclude that you are back-pedaling and do not believe you need to back up your claims with evidence, no more and no less.

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Chauttah Pad: A spiritual life

Aad ji

You may remember that discussion was on chautha pad.This is mentioned in gurbani and most of us know that chautha pad is achieved by nam jap with honest life being the basics. There was a query from Ajmer singh and i cited bandginama by Bhai raghbir singh ji for his reference.

We all know that gurbani does not endorse any meaningless rituals or life of a sanyasi but does supprt naam japna. Then came a post quoted below . Then there were posts ridiculing nam japna as parroting. I do not understand how such a conscious person like you failed to gauge those posts.

It is not my job to point out the posts of others for you. If you have any questions next time yourself as a participant in this thread feel free to ask me and i will reply per my understanding. If you have no questions then let the discussion proceed.

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quote

Dear Friends,We are lucky to be born Sikhs,for the Guru has shown us how to be truly liberated.Liberation....Chautha Pad does not ensue from a life given to austerities,renunciation and myriads of meaningless rituals.Gurmat teaches us that this world is real.So live in accordance with the Guru,s Hukam:

ਨਾਨਕ ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ ਭੇਟਿਐ ਪੂਰੀ ਹੋਵੈ ਜੁਗਤਿ ॥
Source:: Sikh Philosophy Network
नानक सतिगुरि भेटिऐ पूरी होवै जुगति ॥
Nānak saṯgur bẖeti▫ai pūrī hovai jugaṯ.
O Nanak, meeting the True Guru, one comes to know the Perfect Way.

ਹਸੰਦਿਆ ਖੇਲੰਦਿਆ ਪੈਨੰਦਿਆ ਖਾਵੰਦਿਆ ਵਿਚੇ ਹੋਵੈ ਮੁਕਤਿ ॥੨॥
हसंदिआ खेलंदिआ पैनंदिआ खावंदिआ विचे होवै मुकति ॥२॥
Hasanḏi▫ā kẖelanḏi▫ā painanḏi▫ā kẖāvanḏi▫ā vicẖe hovai mukaṯ. ||2||
While laughing, playing, dressing and eating, he is liberated. ||2||


And also:

ਵਿਚਿ ਦੁਨੀਆ ਸੇਵ ਕਮਾਈਐ ॥
विचि दुनीआ सेव कमाईऐ ॥
vicẖ ḏunī▫ā sev kamā▫ī▫ai.
In the midst of this world, do seva,

ਤਾ ਦਰਗਹ ਬੈਸਣੁ ਪਾਈਐ ॥
ता दरगह बैसणु पाईऐ ॥
Ŧā ḏargėh baisaṇ pā▫ī▫ai.
and you shall be given a place of honor in the Court of the Lord.

The Guru has shown us THE WAY but if escapism,austerities and meaningless rituals seem so endearing,then we have to make concerted efforts to understand the Guru,s Word.Gurbani says...Raj na chahun, mukat na chahun, man preet charan kamlaare. What is this preet charan? It is to have complete faith in Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib and follow its teachings religiously.It is to make constant efforts to imbibe all those attributes ascribed to Akal Purakh and to do it while seeking the Grace of God.Simple and straightforward. Gurmat Gaadi Rah Humbly Satnam Singh Randhawa ​

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Inder ji

There is nothing in this post by forum member Satnam ji that states that recitation of naam japna is a useless exercise. In fact the comments are consistent with this passage from the rehit maryada.

[SIZE=-1]CHAPTER X[/SIZE]​

[SIZE=-1] Living in Consonance with Guru's Tenets (Gurmat Rehni)

Article XVI [/SIZE]​

[SIZE=-1]

A Sikh's living, earning livelihood, thinking and conduct should accord with the Guru's tenets. The Guru's tenets are:

a. Worship should be rendered only to the One Timeless Being and to no god or goddess.

b. Regarding the ten Gurus, the Guru Granth Sahib and the ten Gurus' word alone as saviours and holy objects of veneration.

c. Regarding ten Gurus as the effulgence of one light and one single entity.

d. Not believing in caste or descent untouchabililty, Magic spells, incantation, omens, auspicious times, days and occasions, influence of stars, horoscopic dispositions, Shradh (ritual serving of food to priests for the salvation of ancestor on appointed days as per the lunar calendar), Ancestor worship, khiah (ritual serving of food to priests - Brahmins - on the lunar anniversaries of death of an ancestor) (Two words, shradh and khiah, occuring in this clause connote what appears to be the same thing - the ritual serving of food to the priests (Brahmins). The difference between the connotations of the two words is implicit in the dates on which the ritual is performed. The ritual of serving of food on the lunar anniversary of the death goes by the name khiah; whereas the ritual of serving food on the lunar date corresponding to the date of death during the period of the year designated shradhs is known as sharadh.) pind (offering of funeral barley cakes to the deceased's relatives), patal (ritual donating of food in the belief that that would satisfy the hunger of a departed soul), diva (the ceremony of keeping an oil lamp lit for 360 days after the death, in the belief that that lights the path of the deceased), ritual funeral acts. hom (lighting of ritual fire and pouring intermittently clarified butter, food grains etc. into it for propitiating gods for the fulfilment of a purpose), jag (religious ceremony involving presentation of oblations), tarpan (libation), sikha-sut (keeping a tuft of hair on the head and wearing thread), bhadan (shaving of head on the death of a parent), fasting on new or full moon or other days, wearing of frontal marks on forehead, wearing of thread, wearing of a necklace of the pieces of tulsi (A plant with medicinal properties, Bot, Ocimum sanctum.), stalk, veneration of any graves, of monuments erected to honour the memory of a deceased person or of cremation sites, idolatry and such like superstitious observances (Most, though not all, rituals and ritual or religious observances listed in this clause are hindu rituals and observances. The reason is that the old rituals and practices, continues to be observed by large numbers of Sikhs even after their conversion from their old to new faith and a large bulk of the Sikhs novices were Hindu converts. Another reason for this phenomenon was the strangle hold of the Brahmin priest on Hindus' secular and religious life which the Brahmin priests managed to maintain even on those leaving the Hindu religious fold, by the his astute mental dexterity and rare capacity for compromise. That the Sikh novitiates included a sizeable number of Muslims is shown by inclusion in this clause of the taboos as to the sanctity of graves, shirni etc.)

Not owning up or regarding as hallowed any place other than the Guru's place- such, for instance, as sacred sports or places of pilgrimage of other faiths.

Not believing in or according any authority to Muslim seers, Brahmins' holiness, soothsayers, clairvoyants, oracles, promise of an offering on the fulfillment of a wish, offering of sweet loaves or rice pudding at graves on fulfillment of wishes, the Vedas, the Shastras, the Gayatri,(Hindu scriptural prayer unto the sun) the Gita, the Quaran, the Bible, etc. However, the study of the books of other faiths for general self-education is admissible.[/SIZE]

So Satnam ji cannot be the culprit. Who is the culprit? And if Inder ji you have questions regarding Bandginama or Bhai Raghbir Singh ji -- Please feel free to ask me and I will reply as per my understanding. Just send me a pm. :yes:

 

[Inder singh]

Re: Chauttah Pad: A spiritual life

AAd ji

I am not able to understand what you are trying to tell me. The following line is also from the same person.

quote

The word dhi-a-idi-a here does not mean sitting in a particular posture and chanting God,s name.To me it means constant awareness of the presence of God and all my actions being guided by Him to the point they do not seem belaboured and there is a spontaneity about them.

unquote

Have you read that? If so what does it mean? here he is rejectring nam jap or meditation altogether?
Do not try to be a biased reader.

Thanks for your offer about bandginama . have you read that? if so try to apply in your life also.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Re: Chauttah Pad: A spiritual life

Can anyone quote just ONE Complete Shabad that declares"
Naam Japp is to be done PARKED in one place.

Each and Every shabad is about Naam japp..24/7..DIN RAAT...swaas grass..all the time..every single moment..awake or sleeping...

Guru Ji DOES NOT GIVE/LIMIT Naam japp to ANY FIXED TIME/hours/postures/positions.
All Gursikhs are to eb Householders, perform KIRT..and wanndd chhak from the proceeds fo that Honest Labour. Period.:whisling::whisling::whisling: HASENDIAN>>KHELDIAN>..playing and laughing...Love Waheguur...:yes::yes::yes::yes::yes::yes::yes::yes::yes::yes::yes:

 

[Inder singh]

Re: Chauttah Pad: A spiritual life

Can anyone quote just ONE Complete Shabad that declares"
Naam Japp is to be done PARKED in one place.

Each and Every shabad is about Naam japp..24/7..DIN RAAT...swaas grass..all the time..every single moment..awake or sleeping...

Guru Ji DOES NOT GIVE/LIMIT Naam japp to ANY FIXED TIME/hours/postures/positions.
All Gursikhs are to eb Householders, perform KIRT..and wanndd chhak from the proceeds fo that Honest Labour. Period.:whisling::whisling::whisling: HASENDIAN>>KHELDIAN>..playing and laughing...Love Waheguur...:yes::yes::yes::yes::yes::yes::yes::yes::yes::yes::yes:

Can the learned poster tell us what does he understand by nam jap. There seems to be a difference of opinion on the definition of naam jap.

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Chauttah Pad: A spiritual life

AAd ji

I am not able to understand what you are trying to tell me. The following line is also from the same person.

quote

The word dhi-a-idi-a here does not mean sitting in a particular posture and chanting God,s name.To me it means constant awareness of the presence of God and all my actions being guided by Him to the point they do not seem belaboured and there is a spontaneity about them.

unquote

Have you read that? If so what does it mean? here he is rejectring nam jap or meditation altogether?
Do not try to be a biased reader.

Thanks for your offer about bandginama . have you read that? if so try to apply in your life also.

Veer Inder ji

I can tell from your private messages that you are a passionate and genuine person because it is clear that you care very deeply about this topic. Try to see my point. I am still waiting for an answer - Please tell me who said that reciting Naam Japna is a useless exercise?

Now you are asking a different question and suggesting that if someone gives the answer you do not agree with that they are rejecting Naam Japna and/or meditation altogether.

We are looking now at another word. But put it in context. Here is the statement you have asked about: "The word dhi-a-idi-a here does not mean sitting in a particular posture and chanting God,s name.To me it means constant awareness of the presence of God and all my actions being guided by Him to the point they do not seem belaboured and there is a spontaneity about them."

I do not know where/in which post the word "dhi-a-idi-a" comes up Are you talking about Dh-i-aa-ee-ai. If you are talking about Dh-i-aa-ee-ai it refers to meditate. The modern Punjabi word for "sit" as in sitting down is baihna or baithna. Interestingly enough in Gurbani the same word is close "baisan" (my grammatical form may be off here). In other words, dhyaan means meditate, and it means sit, as long as the sense of "sit" is seated in meditation. Otherwise another word for "sit" has to be used -- which Guruji does in fact do -- there are several words for "sit"

The interesting thing about all of this is that Zen Buddhism has the same idea. When a Zen Buddhist says he/she is going to "sit" he/she means going to sit in meditation or meditate. It is called zazen. "Upon his own enlightenment, Buddha was in seated meditation; Zen practice returns to the same seated meditation again and again. For two thousand five hundred years that meditation has continued, from generation to generation; it's the most important thing that has been passed on. It spread from India to China, to Japan, to other parts of Asia, and then finally to the West." Zen Mountain Monastery: Zen Meditation Instructions

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Chauttah Pad: A spiritual life

Inder ji

OK - I found it about 4 pages back. You are referring to this:

Begin Quote:

ਧਿਆਇਦਿਆ ਤੂੰ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਮਿਲੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਉਤਰੀ ਚਿੰਤ ॥੧॥
धिआइदिआ तूं प्रभू मिलु नानक उतरी चिंत ॥१॥
Ḏẖi▫ā▫iḏi▫ā ṯūʼn parabẖū mil Nānak uṯrī cẖinṯ. ||1||
Meditating, you shall meet God, O Nanak, and your anxiety shall vanish. ||1||
The word dhi-a-idi-a here does not mean sitting in a particular posture and chanting God,s name.To me it means constant awareness of the presence of God and all my actions being guided by Him to the point they do not seem belaboured and there is a spontaneity about them.

End Quote

It means meditate. Professor Surinder Singh Kohli gives the same definition. At first I felt it was waste of everyone's time to go through that whole exercise on meditating and sitting in my post just above. But now I think it was a good thing. This Ḏẖi▫ā▫iḏi▫ā conveys exactly the same idea as the Japanese "zazen" or sit/be in a mindful state of contemplation or awareness. BTW you do not have to sit to be in a mindful state of awareness in Zen Buddhism either.


My conclusion - the poster who happens to be Satnam ji is not rejecting Naam Japna altogether. How did you come to this conclusion:"here he is rejectring nam jap or meditation altogether?

 

[Inder singh]

Re: Chauttah Pad: A spiritual life

I do not know where/in which post the word "dhi-a-idi-a" comes up

I think i had indicated the person to you in one of my posts. Please understand that we are not arguing in a court of law. We are not attorneys who wrangle of technicalities of language. We are on a religious discussion forum. Thank you for clarifying about your understadnig of Punjabi word dhiave that some people are interpreting in a different way.

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Chauttah Pad: A spiritual life

In the right context both words can mean "sit" as in situated in meditation. Not sit as in sitting down.

 

[Inder singh]

Re: Chauttah Pad: A spiritual life

My conclusion - the poster who happens to be Satnam ji is not rejecting Naam Japna altogether. How did you come to this conclusion:"here he is rejectring nam jap or meditation altogether?

Because in sikhism naam japna starts with jeebha or chanting with tongue and it progresses as we elevate ourselves. This is called naam japna and sikh rehat maryada endorses that.

But for some people have a different ideology tand they call it a meaningless or ritual. That is what Inder singh Ghagha a missionary sated about naam japna in a video debate in toronto and got excommunicated.That is why i asked for clarification on the definition of naam japna.

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Chauttah Pad: A spiritual life

Inder ji

Yes I know that there are some people who think that the recitation of Naam Japna is a meaningless ritual. You don't think so. I don't think so. And it does not look as if Satnam ji thinks that either. He was making a different point.

 

[Inder singh]

Re: Chauttah Pad: A spiritual life

My conclusion - the poster who happens to be Satnam ji is not rejecting Naam Japna altogether. How did you come to this conclusion:"here he is rejectring nam jap or meditation altogether?

Because in sikhism naam japna starts with jeebha or chanting with tongue and it progresses as we elevate ourselves. This is called naam japna and sikh rehat maryada endorses that.

But for some people have a different ideology tand they call it a meaningless or ritual. That is what Inder singh Ghagha a missionary sated about naam japna in a video debate in toronto and got excommunicated.That is why i asked people of this ideology for clarification on the definition of naam japna.

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Chauttah Pad: A spiritual life

Because in sikhism naam japna starts with jeebha or chanting with tongue and it progresses as we elevate ourselves. This is called naam japna and sikh rehat maryada endorses that.

But for some people have a different ideology tand they call it a meaningless or ritual. That is what Inder singh Ghagha a missionary sated about naam japna in a video debate in toronto and got excommunicated.That is why i asked people of this ideology for clarification on the definition of naam japna.

Inder ji

These matters have been a topic of discussion in the sangat at large for several years now. So it is serious and it is controversial and it has torn Sikhism into pieces.

But no one in this thread has subscribed to the idea that Naam Japna is a meaningless ritual. It is important to give other posters a chance to frame their ideas without being suspected of crimes against Sikhism. Do you see my point. It is one thing to be firmly commited to a religious concept, in fact it is admirable. But why condemn others?

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Re: Chauttah Pad: A spiritual life

IN BUddhism as seen in Tibetan Lama monasteries...they have FANS on which Mantras/scared scriptures are written...people BUY these Fans and install them in the Monastery before the Altar...and as the WIND makes the Fans rotate..its supposedly beleived that the Mantra is being Japped..and the person whose Fan it is..is getting the MERITS !!

Tibetan Buddhism is nearly 2500 YEARS OLD...FIVE TIMES the AGE OF GURMATT.
THINK...IF in just 500 years we have PROGRESSED to SELLING pre-read, pre-pared akhand paaths/paaths/REMOTE ARDASSES....etc which are supposed to earn MERITS for the BUYER of such..where do you think Gurmatt will be in 2000 years down the road ?? Will we progress to having Japji or Sukhmani or Waheguru printed on FANS...and when the Fans spin in the wind..we get the MERITS ??

THIS is the ROAD..our beloved SANTS SAADHS so called Brahmgianis Gurus etc are trying to make us FOLLOW...its to their Immense benefit..more and more money...power and prestige...Thats what the clergy..the ragis, granthis, jathedars, all WANT...JUST PAY US..and we will do EVERYTHING..paath/kirtan/ardass..everything as a Package...dont worry Guru Bhalee Karega. This si the GORAKH DHANDDAH...the meaningless ritualised spirtual journey that GURBANI FORBIDS.

Buddhist still have Jaap...their MONKS will come and chant for an entire week non stop 24/7..provided you can PAY. WE in malaysia see this all the time..Funerals...besides the Monks and religious priests..the Buddhists Temples even arrange PAID MOURNERS...they are paid..to arrive, sit down in funeral attire..and pretend to cry and wail as if they lost the dear one...all is pretense...at the end of the three days or week or whatever arrangement..ALL pack up and leave..the monks who chanted "Naam"...the Mourners, the caretakers, the body embalmers, florists, etc etc EACH has a ROLE.
IN other Religious functions..for example new shop opened, new house, new born baby...etc etc also the SAME...paid MONKS will CHANT Mantras...for ONLY as long as the MONEY is PAID...just like the JUKEBOXES in which a coin makes the LP record play for a certain amount of time !!

We are NOT far behind..our GURDWARAS..granthis, etc do exactly the same thing...they will do the ARDASS as LONG as you want...praise after praise..of you, your grandfather, your ancestors...even for an HOUR..as long as they KNOW how fat the envelope is !!! IF too small a payment..then Bhog Sloks are run thru at Breakneck speed..Anand sahib is one stretch of railgadee passing by...ardass is over even before it began...hukmanama is the shortest one..and wand degh and chaklo chaklo...and its OH gayeh oh gayeh... THIS is GORAKH DHANDAH..ritualised nonsense. not as per Gurmatt.

GURMATT is FOR LIVING...PRACTICAL LIVING...easily attainable..within reach of every one..GURBANI has got to be LIVED..PRACTISED..its not a theory....or formula to be memeorised and parrotted.:u)::u)::u): NO JIOS..its got to BE LIVED daily 24/7:welcome::welcome::welcome:

 

[Inder singh]

Re: Chauttah Pad: A spiritual life

ਜਿਹ ਸਿਮਰਨਿ ਹੋਇ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਦੁਆਰੁ ॥
jih simaran hoe mukath dhuaar ||
Remembering Him in meditation, the door of liberation is found.
7 Raamkalee Saint Kabir ਜਾਹਿ ਬੈਕੁੰਠਿ ਨਹੀ ਸੰਸਾਰਿ ॥
jaahi baikunth nehee sansaar ||
You shall go to heaven, and not return to this earth.
7 Raamkalee Saint Kabir ਨਿਰਭਉ ਕੈ ਘਰਿ ਬਜਾਵਹਿ ਤੂਰ ॥
nirabho kai ghar bajaavehi thoor ||
In the home of the Fearless Lord, the celestial trumpets resound.
7 Raamkalee Saint Kabir ਅਨਹਦ ਬਜਹਿ ਸਦਾ ਭਰਪੂਰ ॥੧॥
anehadh bajehi sadhaa bharapoor ||1||
The unstruck sound current will vibrate and resonate forever. ||1||
8 Raamkalee Saint Kabir ਐਸਾ ਸਿਮਰਨੁ ਕਰਿ ਮਨ ਮਾਹਿ ॥
aisaa simaran kar man maahi ||
Practice such meditative remembrance in your mind.
8 Raamkalee Saint Kabir ਬਿਨੁ ਸਿਮਰਨ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਕਤ ਨਾਹਿ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
bin simaran mukath kath naahi ||1|| rehaao ||
Without this meditative remembrance, liberation will never be found. ||1||Pause||
8 Raamkalee Saint Kabir ਜਿਹ ਸਿਮਰਨਿ ਨਾਹੀ ਨਨਕਾਰੁ ॥
jih simaran naahee nanakaar ||
Remembering Him in meditation, you will meet with no obstruction.
9 Raamkalee Saint Kabir ਮੁਕਤਿ ਕਰੈ ਉਤਰੈ ਬਹੁ ਭਾਰੁ ॥
mukath karai outharai bahu bhaar ||
You will be liberated, and the great load will be taken away.
9 Raamkalee Saint Kabir ਨਮਸਕਾਰੁ ਕਰਿ ਹਿਰਦੈ ਮਾਹਿ ॥
namasakaar kar hiradhai maahi ||
Bow in humility within your heart,
9 Raamkalee Saint Kabir ਫਿਰਿ ਫਿਰਿ ਤੇਰਾ ਆਵਨੁ ਨਾਹਿ ॥੨॥
fir fir thaeraa aavan naahi ||2||
and you will not have to be reincarnated over and over again. ||2||
10 Raamkalee Saint Kabir ਜਿਹ ਸਿਮਰਨਿ ਕਰਹਿ ਤੂ ਕੇਲ ॥
jih simaran karehi thoo kael ||
Remember Him in meditation, celebrate and be happy.
10 Raamkalee Saint Kabir ਦੀਪਕੁ ਬਾਂਧਿ ਧਰਿਓ ਬਿਨੁ ਤੇਲ ॥
dheepak baandhh dhhariou bin thael ||
God has placed His lamp deep within you, which burns without any oil.
10 Raamkalee Saint Kabir ਸੋ ਦੀਪਕੁ ਅਮਰਕੁ ਸੰਸਾਰਿ ॥
so dheepak amarak sansaar ||
That lamp makes the world immortal;
11 Raamkalee Saint Kabir ਕਾਮ ਕ੍ਰੋਧ ਬਿਖੁ ਕਾਢੀਲੇ ਮਾਰਿ ॥੩॥
kaam krodhh bikh kaadteelae maar ||3||
it conquers and drives out the poisons of sexual desire and anger. ||3||
11 Raamkalee Saint Kabir ਜਿਹ ਸਿਮਰਨਿ ਤੇਰੀ ਗਤਿ ਹੋਇ ॥
jih simaran thaeree gath hoe ||
Remembering Him in meditation, you shall obtain salvation.
11 Raamkalee Saint Kabir ਸੋ ਸਿਮਰਨੁ ਰਖੁ ਕੰਠਿ ਪਰੋਇ ॥
so simaran rakh kanth paroe ||
Wear that meditative remembrance as your necklace.
12 Raamkalee Saint Kabir ਸੋ ਸਿਮਰਨੁ ਕਰਿ ਨਹੀ ਰਾਖੁ ਉਤਾਰਿ ॥
so simaran kar nehee raakh outhaar ||
Practice that meditative remembrance, and never let it go.
12 Raamkalee Saint Kabir ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਉਤਰਹਿ ਪਾਰਿ ॥੪॥
gur parasaadhee outharehi paar ||4||
By Guru's Grace, you shall cross over. ||4||
12 Raamkalee Saint Kabir ਜਿਹ ਸਿਮਰਨਿ ਨਾਹੀ ਤੁਹਿ ਕਾਨਿ ॥
jih simaran naahee thuhi kaan ||
Remembering Him in meditation, you shall not be obligated to others.
13 Raamkalee Saint Kabir ਮੰਦਰਿ ਸੋਵਹਿ ਪਟੰਬਰ ਤਾਨਿ ॥
mandhar sovehi pattanbar thaan ||
You shall sleep in your mansion, in blankets of silk.
13 Raamkalee Saint Kabir ਸੇਜ ਸੁਖਾਲੀ ਬਿਗਸੈ ਜੀਉ ॥
saej sukhaalee bigasai jeeo ||
Your soul shall blossom forth in happiness, on this comfortable bed.
13 Raamkalee Saint Kabir ਸੋ ਸਿਮਰਨੁ ਤੂ ਅਨਦਿਨੁ ਪੀਉ ॥੫॥
so simaran thoo anadhin peeo ||5||
So drink in this meditative remembrance, night and day. ||5||
13 Raamkalee Saint Kabir ਜਿਹ ਸਿਮਰਨਿ ਤੇਰੀ ਜਾਇ ਬਲਾਇ ॥
jih simaran thaeree jaae balaae ||
Remembering Him in meditation, your troubles will depart.
14 Raamkalee Saint Kabir ਜਿਹ ਸਿਮਰਨਿ ਤੁਝੁ ਪੋਹੈ ਨ ਮਾਇ ॥
jih simaran thujh pohai n maae ||
Remembering Him in meditation, Maya will not bother you.
14 Raamkalee Saint Kabir ਸਿਮਰਿ ਸਿਮਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਮਨਿ ਗਾਈਐ ॥
simar simar har har man gaaeeai ||
Meditate, meditate in remembrance on the Lord, Har, Har, and sing His Praises in your mind.
14 Raamkalee Saint Kabir ਇਹੁ ਸਿਮਰਨੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਤੇ ਪਾਈਐ ॥੬॥
eihu simaran sathigur thae paaeeai ||6||
This meditative remembrance is obtained from the True Guru. ||6||
15 Raamkalee Saint Kabir ਸਦਾ ਸਦਾ ਸਿਮਰਿ ਦਿਨੁ ਰਾਤਿ ॥
sadhaa sadhaa simar dhin raath ||
Forever and ever, remember Him, day and night,
15 Raamkalee Saint Kabir ਊਠਤ ਬੈਠਤ ਸਾਸਿ ਗਿਰਾਸਿ ॥
oothath baithath saas giraas ||
while standing up and sitting down, with every breath and morsel of food.
16 Raamkalee Saint Kabir ਜਾਗੁ ਸੋਇ ਸਿਮਰਨ ਰਸ ਭੋਗ ॥
jaag soe simaran ras bhog ||
While awake and asleep, enjoy the essence of this meditative remembrance.
16 Raamkalee Saint Kabir ਹਰਿ ਸਿਮਰਨੁ ਪਾਈਐ ਸੰਜੋਗ ॥੭॥
har simaran paaeeai sanjog ||7||
The Lord's meditative remembrance is obtained by good destiny. ||7||
16 Raamkalee Saint Kabir ਜਿਹ ਸਿਮਰਨਿ ਨਾਹੀ ਤੁਝੁ ਭਾਰ ॥
jih simaran naahee thujh bhaar ||
Remembering Him in meditation, you shall not be loaded down.
17 Raamkalee Saint Kabir ਸੋ ਸਿਮਰਨੁ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਅਧਾਰੁ ॥
so simaran raam naam adhhaar ||
Make this meditative remembrance of the Lord's Name your Support.
17 Raamkalee Saint Kabir ਕਹਿ ਕਬੀਰ ਜਾ ਕਾ ਨਹੀ ਅੰਤੁ ॥

 

[Ajmer singh Randhawa]

Re: Chauttah Pad: A spiritual life

Gyani ji,
You are highlighting the weaknesses of management committees for their prepaid services, but have you ever thought who is guilty. You Gyani ji-you the multimillionaire foreigner Sikhs, who have lured them by paying hefty amount in lieu of the prepaid services. You people just ring them and according to your suitability , you book, get it performed and pay through credit cards double, triple or quadruple then the actual amount. Even you ask them for a fixed Ardass which one can do himself. There is no ban on Ardas by oneself.
This custom is not in practice in India. Here people welcome guru Sahab ji at their cleaned house, wash the feet and hands of Paathi Singhs by a family member, Paathis are offered tea, milk, langar, etc before and after he recites Paath at Tabya. Paathis are provided the best arrangement to their comfort during Akhand Paath is recited. A family member is always present near Guru Sahab ji.
So please don’ say that this is a common practice. We Sikhs seeks this golden opportunity to welcome Guru Granth Sahab ji at our home, in the hope , that just by the visit of Guru ji our home will get purify but now- a-days our houses are small and we are compelled by the circumstances to miss this opportunity in our life other than special occasions of Marriage, birth etc.
Instead of criticizing please do something from your resources to wipe out this malpractice in the interest of our Panth.
Guru Fateh !!
Ajmer Singh Randhawa.

 

[Inder singh]

Re: Chauttah Pad: A spiritual life

To reach chautha pad is an individual's exercise. To blame community for this is just to deflect the discussion.

 

[Inder singh]

Re: Chauttah Pad: A spiritual life

​

Naam Mantra Jap

Naam Mantra Jap​

M.S. Bhatia*​

* Address: A-2/36, Safdarjang Enclave, New Delhi. 110 029. Email: jsbhatia@mantraonline.com
Naam Mantra jap is a spiritual practice primarily intended to bring about spiritual advancement of an individual. It consists in the person choosing a word or stanza and sitting in quiet solitude, repeating the same. Our mind, normally, has a tendency to keep on shifting from one thought to the other at random; it should be gently brought back to the process of repetition of the chosen word or stanza. The aspirant should try to listen to the Naam mantra being uttered within, even though inaudible; it will help him in keeping the mind focussed on the process and thus make the jap much more effective. The mantra should be practiced daily for a minimum period of about half an hour, preferably twice – morning and evening. Gradually, however time for mantra jap should be extended to other parts of the day so as to fill gaps or spare time between other normal activities, or when engaged on such activities as do not require any mental work e.g. bathing, dressing, walking, waiting, resting, and before sleep.
The chosen word for the Naam Japna should represent the Divine Reality or Deity of the individual according to his religious belief or the chosen stanza should reflect the ethical and spiritual values of the individual. The word is so chosen that it draws aspirant’s attention to the Spiritual Reality during the jap.
When Naam mantra is practiced regularly for some time at conscious level, gradually the sub-conscious takes over, and the jap goes on even when the conscious mind is engaged in other activities. As soon as a gap occurs in an activity Naam will surface up at conscious level of its own. Thus the jap becomes, so to say, automatic called ‘ajapa jap’ or simran. If a person goes to sleep over the mantra, whenever he happens to wake up at night, he will find that the jap is going on in his mind.
Gradually, this practice slows down the wandering tendency of the mind and increases the power of mental concentration of the aspirant. The practice purifies the mind and reduces the inborn tendencies for lust, anger, greed, selfishness and pride, sanctifies his outlook towards life, increases awareness, raises level of consciousness and brings about all round spiritual advancement. The aspirant becomes honest, truthful, considerate, caring, loving, kind, forgiving and humble. He gets a feeling of bliss and joy during the jap and that keeps him hooked to the practice. The mantra completely transforms the individual and religion becomes a part of his daily life. What is important is regularity of practice, persistence and an inner urge for self- realization.
In the advanced stages of this practice, the aspirant should, during the course of his Naam jap, mentally fill his mind with God-consciousness and subjectively feel the presence of God as a Spiritual Reality within him and all around him. He begins to see ‘beauty’ and a ‘touch’ of His presence in everything around him. Gurbani says:- ‘so antar so bahir anant, ghut ghut biap raiha Bhagvant.’ - that is : the same Infinite which is outside is inside you ; He is all pervading and in every being. This is what is termed as a state of communion with God. Aspirant’s concept of God also, gradually changes from Personal to Impersonal. A spiritualist addressing Him says:
Thou Life within my life, than self more near,
Thou Veiled Presence, infinitely clear,
From all illusive shows of sense I flee,
To find my Centre and my rest in Thee.
How does Naam mantra work? Mantra slowly develops the four ‘D’s of mind-culture namely: discrimination, determination, discipline and detachment, as follows:- (a) Discrimination – the ability to distinguish between right and wrong. Mantra makes the aspirant more receptive to the inflow of Divine Intelligence that pervades the entire universe; this inflow enhances the ability of the individual to know what is right and what is wrong, and he is thus in a position to make right choices and take correct decisions.(b) Determination – the ability to implement one’s decisions. For practicing jap the aspirant makes use of his faculty of will; it is a law of life that any organ of body or faculty of mind that is used regularly gets strengthened. In the practice of mantra jap the individual makes use of his faculty of ‘will’; this enables him to strengthen his will power and to gradually extend its domain to subconscious, so as to be able to free his ‘self’ from conflicts, fears, selfishness, greed, lust and cravings which are rooted in the subconscious. (c) Discipline - A person with a strong will is well-disciplined and he is able to exercise better control on his mind and resist temptations. (d) Detachment - the ability to keep the mind off from all that is unimportant and irrelevant in life. This quality follows the earlier qualities (a), (b) and (c) An individual who is regular in practicing mantra jap gets tuned to the Infinite within and gets Divine guidance for living a good life.
Indeed Naam Mantra jap as a religious practice, forms the core of most of the religions of the world, including Sikhism. There is another form of practice which makes use of the principle of auto-suggestion; it consists in, while sitting in a meditative pose, repeating mentally selected shabads, bhajjans, psalms, inspiring poems, passages, etc. This form of meditation brings about desirable changes in the sub-conscious. Some spiritualists recommend combining the above form of meditation for daily formal sittings in the morning and evenings and mantra jap to fill gaps in normal activities during the day, whenever feasible, and at night when lying down for sleep. In Sikhism mantra jap is combined with recitation of gurbani at personal level and listening to shabad-kirtan at community level.
Other benefits of Naam mantra jap
Regular practice of Naam mantra jap has, apart from spiritual, many other uses and benefits. It brings about physical relaxation, slows down breathing rate, reduces blood pressure, slows down aging process and brings about a general feeling of well-being. It serves as an anti-stress measure and boosts up immune system. During illness it aids healing and promotes early recovery. Persons, who are regular in Naam jap, take good care of their body and, normally, enjoy a long and healthy life.
The Jaap promotes mental peace, increases the capacity for mental concentration and ability for putting in sustained mental work for long periods. Thus, regular practice of Naam jap makes a person mentally more efficient and productive; he acquires freedom to think only of that which is of benefit to him and /or to others. When mind switches off, at random, from one thought to the other in a continuous row, lot of mental energy is wasted, Naam enables an aspirant to conserve mental energy by slowing down the process of thinking.
When time is hanging heavy over you and you are feeling bored, fill your mind with Naam to take off the boredom. Watching TV aimlessly, just to fill time is a great drag on your mental energy and quite enervating.
The Naam enables us to direct our attention at will from negative to positive thinking. In times of distress it enables us to take our thoughts off from worry, sorrow, pain or any nagging problem and calms down the mind. Every individual has within his subconscious, an immense reserve of creative wisdom and love; Naam mantra enables us to make use of that capacity and enrich life.
If you spend a lot of time on reading and writing, it is a good practice to rest for a short while, to close your eyes and to repeat Naam mantra. When you are unwell and lying in bed at home or in hospital, practice Naam mantra. This would take your mind off from pain, discomfort or any brooding tendency.
If a person has strong likes and dislikes, strong opinions and set habits, his responses become mechanical and subjective; in other words, he is a slave to his inner urges and loses his freedom of choice. His way of life, therefore, becomes unsound. He behaves as if he has no control on his mind. Mantra helps him in gaining control over the mind, in making wise choices and in living a more meaningful life. Persons with strong likes and dislikes are, generally extremely self-centered and they cannot appreciate other people’s point of view. They are too rigid in their approach and personal relationships. This trait of theirs stands in their way of their growth and spiritual advancement. They are intolerant and impatient; they find it difficult to get along with others and to make adjustments where needed. They cannot co-operate with others and therefore do not get co-operation from others. They cannot undertake disagreeable jobs, however important they may be. When a person gains control over his mind, through mantra, he can drop a job which he likes and do a job which he dislikes, when doing so becomes necessary from consideration of some overall advantage to himself as well as to others.
An unstable mind gets very much elated on success and depressed on meeting a failure. It is a law of life that too much elation brings a reactive depression afterwards. A stable person never goes to extremes and remains calm and tranquil under all circumstances. This ability to remain calm and steady is acquired through regular practice of mantra jap.
While concluding, it will not be an exaggeration to state that mantra jap has been rightly called the Elixir of life. Gurbani says:- ‘Sarb rog ka aukhad naam.’ that is - mantra jap is a cure for every ill. In case of those who lead a very busy life its regular practice of even half an hour daily will bring about immense benefits, physical, mental, social, psychological and spiritual.

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Chauttah Pad: A spiritual life

Inder ji and Ajmer ji

Forum note: Gyani ji will be off-line over the weekend because of personal business. In the meantime try to refrain from personal challenges as he will not be able to respond.

Inder ji - Would you please provide us with some comments regarding your previous post number 75 above in which you have posted links to bhagat Kabir ji's shabad. It is not possible to grasp your intent or why you have posted them without your insights and commentary. Members would appreciate that.

Thank you,
Antonia

 

[Inder singh]

Re: Chauttah Pad: A spiritual life

anthonia ji

My aim is not attack anyone personally. Discussion is issue based and not personality based.

in this shabad on ang 971 , Bhagat ji is highlighting the merits of simran or meditation on God's naam.
He says that without simran one cann't get liberation from the clutches of maya.It is with simran that one gets the liberation. It is with simran that one gets in a state of bliss.

One gets elevated spiritually with simran and one should not never forget simran.With this simran one gets rid of any ailments. Bhagat advises that one should do that simran day and night, while sleeping and awake, while breathing and while eating.