Chautha Pad: A Spiritual Life

[Tejwant Singh]

Re: Chauttah Pad: A spiritual life

jo paraanee govind Dhi-aavai.
That mortal who meditates on the Lord of the Universe, piVAw AxpiVAw prm giq pwvY ]1] (197-18, gauVI, mÚ 5)
parhi-aa anparhi-aa param gat paavai. ||1||
whether educated or uneducated, obtains the state of supreme bliss

ang 197

Inder Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

As mentioned in my post, please follow the forum rules and give the whole Shabad and as requested, give the meaning in your own words. How do you understand the Shabad even if you want to copy and paste the distorted literal translation from the internet? Doing what you have done, the process becomes meaningless and shows the parroting habits.

Lastly and the most important thing is that the word "Dhi-aavai" means to create a thought process within through Gurbani, in this case. It has nothing to do with meditation as your claim from the incorrect literal translation. The same goes for "param gat paavai" as supreme bliss which is meaningless in the real life experience.

So, if you want to have the true interaction in understanding Gurbani then parroting misleading and distorted literal translation is not only disrespectful to our Gurus but it also leads us in the direction of Manmat.

I am waiting for the whole Shabad intepreted in English in your own words where you can also show us the difference between the incorrect literal translation and the real meaning of the Shabad as you understand it.

Thanks

Tejwant Singh

 

[Inder singh]

Re: Chauttah Pad: A spiritual life

Lastly and the most important thing is that the word "Dhi-aavai" means to create a thought process within through Gurbani, in this case. It has nothing to do with meditation as your claim from the incorrect literal translation. The same goes for "param gat paavai" as supreme bliss which is meaningless in the real life experience.

It is a pleasure to read your views. Can you tell me how an uneducated person can read Gurbani.

The shabad pankti saysparhi-aa anparhi-aa param gat paavai. ||1||
whether educated or uneducated, obtains the state of supreme bliss

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Re: Chauttah Pad: A spiritual life

It is a pleasure to read your views. Can you tell me how an uneducated person can read Gurbani.

The shabad pankti saysparhi-aa anparhi-aa param gat paavai. ||1||
whether educated or uneducated, obtains the state of supreme bliss

Inder Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

I am anxiously waiting for the interpretation of the WHOLE Shabad in your own words. After you have done that, then only I will be able to share my views on it.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[Astroboy]

Re: Chauttah Pad: A spiritual life

What is the modus operandi in reaching the Fourth Stage ?

In the newly formed religion in USA known as Eckankar, there are five stages to Soul consciousness. These correspond to the five realms and the five sheaths of a living being. I don't know from where they took all these teachings but in my opinion they are greatly flawed. They even have have 5 different sounds for each plane. For example, in the astral plane, the celestial sound is thunder and in the Soul plane it is the sound of a thousand violins.

Their claims are backed by other schools of thought like Vedanta, Sufi, Radha Soami ,Edgar Cayce, Madam Bavlaski, Scientology, etc.

 

[satnamr46]

Re: Chauttah Pad: A spiritual life

soriT mhlw 5 Gru 2 AstpdIAw (641-17)
sorath mehlaa 5 ghar 2 asatpadee-aa
Sorat'h, Fifth Mehl, Second House, Ashtapadees:
​

pwTu piVE Aru bydu bIcwirE invil BuAMgm swDy ]
paath parhi-o ar bayd beechaari-o nival bhu-angam saaDhay.
They read scriptures, and contemplate the Vedas; they practice the inner cleansing techniques of Yoga, and control of the breath.
pMc jnw isau sMgu n CutikE AiDk AhMbuiD bwDy ]1]
panch janaa si-o sang na chhutki-o aDhik ahaN-buDh baaDhay. ||1||
But they cannot escape from the company of the five passions; they are increasingly bound to egotism. ||1||
ipAwry ien ibiD imlxu n jweI mY kIey krm Anykw ]
pi-aaray in biDh milan na jaa-ee mai kee-ay karam anaykaa.
O Beloved, this is not the way to meet the Lord; I have performed these rituals so many times.
hwir pirE suAwmI kY duAwrY dIjY buiD ibbykw ] rhwau ]
haar pari-o su-aamee kai du-aarai deejai buDh bibaykaa. rahaa-o.
I have collapsed, exhausted, at the Door of my Lord Master; I pray that He may grant me a discerning intellect. ||Pause||
moin BieE krpwqI rihE ngn iPirE bn mwhI ]
mon bha-i-o karpaatee rahi-o nagan firi-o ban maahee.
One may remain silent and use his hands as begging bowls, and wander naked in the forest.
qt qIrQ sB DrqI BRimE duibDw CutkY nwhI ]2]
tat tirath sabh Dhartee bharmi-o dubiDhaa chhutkai naahee. ||2||
He may make pilgrimages to river banks and sacred shrines all over the world, but his sense of duality will not leave him. ||2||
mn kwmnw qIrQ jwie bisE isir krvq Drwey ]
man kaamnaa tirath jaa-ay basi-o sir karvat Dharaa-ay.
His mind's desires may lead him to go and dwell at sacred places of pilgrimage, and offer his head to be sawn off;
mn kI mYlu n auqrY ieh ibiD jy lK jqn krwey ]3]
man kee mail na utrai ih biDh jay lakh jatan karaa-ay. ||3||
but this will not cause the filth of his mind to depart, even though he may make thousands of efforts. ||3||
kink kwimnI hYvr gYvr bhu ibiD dwnu dwqwrw ]
kanik kaaminee haivar gaivar baho biDh daan daataaraa.
He may give gifts of all sorts - gold, women, horses and elephants.
AMn bsqR BUim bhu Arpy nh imlIAY hir duAwrw ]4]
ann bastar bhoom baho arpay nah milee-ai har du-aaraa. ||4||
He may make offerings of corn, clothes and land in abundance, but this will not lead him to the Lord's Door. ||4||
pUjw Arcw bMdn fMfauq Ktu krmw rqu rhqw ]
poojaa archaa bandan dand-ut khat karmaa rat rahtaa.
He may remain devoted to worship and adoration, bowing his forehead to the floor, practicing the six religious rituals.
hau hau krq bMDn mih pirAw nh imlIAY ieh jugqw ]5]
ha-o ha-o karat banDhan meh pari-aa nah milee-ai ih jugtaa. ||5||
He indulges in egotism and pride, and falls into entanglements, but he does not meet the Lord by these devices. ||5||
jog isD Awsx caurwsIh ey BI kir kir rihAw ]
jog siDh aasan cha-oraaseeh ay bhee kar kar rahi-aa.
He practices the eighty-four postures of Yoga, and acquires the supernatural powers of the Siddhas, but he gets tired of practicing these.
vfI Awrjw iPir iPir jnmY hir isau sMgu n gihAw ]6]
vadee aarjaa fir fir janmai har si-o sang na gahi-aa. ||6||
He lives a long life, but is reincarnated again and again; he has not met with the Lord. ||6||
rwj lIlw rwjn kI rcnw kirAw hukmu APwrw ]
raaj leelaa raajan kee rachnaa kari-aa hukam afaaraa.
He may enjoy princely pleasures, and regal pomp and ceremony, and issue unchallenged commands.
syj sohnI cMdnu coAw nrk Gor kw duAwrw ]7]
sayj sohnee chandan cho-aa narak ghor kaa du-aaraa. ||7||
He may lie on beautiful beds, perfumed with sandalwood oil, but this will led him only to the gates of the most horrible hell. ||7||
hir kIriq swDsMgiq hY isir krmn kY krmw ]
har keerat saaDhsangat hai sir karman kai karmaa.
Singing the Kirtan of the Lord's Praises in the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, is the highest of all actions.
khu nwnk iqsu BieE prwpiq ijsu purb ilKy kw lhnw ]8]
kaho naanak tis bha-i-o paraapat jis purab likhay kaa lahnaa. ||8||
Says Nanak, he alone obtains it, who is pre-destined to receive it. ||8||
qyro syvku ieh rMig mwqw ]
tayro sayvak ih rang maataa.
Your slave is intoxicated with this Love of Yours.
BieE ik®pwlu dIn duK BMjnu hir hir kIrqin iehu mnu rwqw ] rhwau dUjw ]1]3]
bha-i-o kirpaal deen dukh bhanjan har har keertan ih man raataa. rahaa-o doojaa. ||1||3||
The Destroyer of the pains of the poor has become merciful to me, and this mind is imbued with the Praises of the Lord, Har, Har. ||Second Pause||1||3||

Here in this beautiful shabad the glorious Guru is emphasizing the importance of BIBEK BUDH(discerning intelllect) for seeking a union with God. The Guru rejects all austerities,karam-kands of all stripes,self mortification for a seeker of Truth.We are exhorted to lead normal lives---No Escapism-but while so doing all our actions should have a spiritual dimension.Says the Guru:

ਸਲੋਕੁ ਮਃ ੫ ॥
सलोकु मः ५ ॥
Salok mėhlā 5.
Shalok, Fifth Mehl:

ਉਦਮੁ ਕਰੇਦਿਆ ਜੀਉ ਤੂੰ ਕਮਾਵਦਿਆ ਸੁਖ ਭੁੰਚੁ ॥
उदमु करेदिआ जीउ तूं कमावदिआ सुख भुंचु ॥
Uḏam kareḏi▫ā jī▫o ṯūʼn kamāvḏi▫ā sukẖ bẖuncẖ.
Make the effort, and you shall live; practicing it, you shall enjoy peace.

ਧਿਆਇਦਿਆ ਤੂੰ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਮਿਲੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਉਤਰੀ ਚਿੰਤ ॥੧॥
धिआइदिआ तूं प्रभू मिलु नानक उतरी चिंत ॥१॥
Ḏẖi▫ā▫iḏi▫ā ṯūʼn parabẖū mil Nānak uṯrī cẖinṯ. ||1||
Meditating, you shall meet God, O Nanak, and your anxiety shall vanish. ||1||
The word dhi-a-idi-a here does not mean sitting in a particular posture and chanting God,s name.To me it means constant awareness of the presence of God and all my actions being guided by Him to the point they do not seem belaboured and there is a spontaneity about them.
Says the Guru:

Salok mėhlā 2.
Shalok, Second Mehl:

ਅਖੀ ਬਾਝਹੁ ਵੇਖਣਾ ਵਿਣੁ ਕੰਨਾ ਸੁਨਣਾ ॥
अखी बाझहु वेखणा विणु कंना सुनणा ॥
Akẖī bājẖahu vekẖ▫ṇā viṇ kanna sunṇā.
To see without eyes; to hear without ears;

ਪੈਰਾ ਬਾਝਹੁ ਚਲਣਾ ਵਿਣੁ ਹਥਾ ਕਰਣਾ ॥
पैरा बाझहु चलणा विणु हथा करणा ॥
Pairā bājẖahu cẖalṇā viṇ hathā karṇā.
to walk without feet; to work without hands;

ਜੀਭੈ ਬਾਝਹੁ ਬੋਲਣਾ ਇਉ ਜੀਵਤ ਮਰਣਾ ॥
जीभै बाझहु बोलणा इउ जीवत मरणा ॥
Jībẖai bājẖahu bolṇā i▫o jīvaṯ marṇā.
to speak without a tongue-like this, one remains dead while yet alive.

ਨਾਨਕ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਪਛਾਣਿ ਕੈ ਤਉ ਖਸਮੈ ਮਿਲਣਾ ॥੧॥
नानक हुकमु पछाणि कै तउ खसमै मिलणा ॥१॥
Nānak hukam pacẖẖāṇ kai ṯa▫o kẖasmai milṇā. ||1||
O Nanak, recognize the Hukam of the Lord's Command, and merge with your Lord and Master. ||1||

God,s blessings on all.Humbly
Satnam Singh Randhawa

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Chauttah Pad: A spiritual life

Satnam ji

Thank you for posting these beautiful Shabads. They are truly key to shaping this discussion. They serve as a reminder of what the focus of attention should be and how Waheguru is an important part of our devotion. Without constant and loyal focus upon Him it is all useless. He is the one who feeds our devotion. He is the one who prepares, illuminates, purifies our inner awreness. Let us not forget to be God's dog.

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Chauttah Pad: A spiritual life

AAD JI, Gurfateh.

My sincere apologies as i left it unfinished.
The word for muck..is indeed KEECHARR as used in Gurbani
and it has been turned around in SLANG into CHIKARR.
Another example is ADHRAK but in slang its ADHKAR (Ginger)
Sorry Ji.

Gyani ji -- Thank you for taking all this time to explain. However my question was not that specific or spiritual in its intent. I was asking why I could not find you using the term Kitcher or Keecharr anywhere in this thread. I did a search using Edit/Find of all 3 pages and no where did it turn up. Neither did "kamal." Someone asked whether you misunderstood the importance of women in relation to the idea of the "lilly" and the "muddy pond". That was what got me started. I did not see you using either Kamal or Kitcher -- that prompted my question. It was only for moderation purposes that I asked. Alas, it seems I have sent you on some kind of wild-goose chase. Apologies.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Re: Chauttah Pad: A spiritual life

aad ji..it happens...btw we BOTH beleive that whatever happens..its HIS DOING...so here too..there is GOOD...some may have learnt something..maybe a few words more..or juts a breather from the ehavy spiritual task at hand....everyone needs a breather/break now and then...so Jios its ok..

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Re: Chauttah Pad: A spiritual life

Satnam ji

Thank you for posting these beautiful Shabads. They are truly key to shaping this discussion. They serve as a reminder of what the focus of attention should be and how Waheguru is an important part of our devotion. Without constant and loyal focus upon Him it is all useless. He is the one who feeds our devotion. He is the one who prepares, illuminates, purifies our inner awreness. Let us not forget to be God's dog.

AAD JI,
Gurfateh.

GURBANI...as Tejwant Ji always keeps reminding us is a TOOLBOX to be used by us to RUN our Life...THE SGGS contains every tol, every method..everything we possibly need to CHANGE our Life towards Waheguru and this happens through GURPARSAAD.
ITS important thta we remember the WHOLE...people get waylaid when they begin to DISSECT individual words....

Naam Simran, Naam Japp..is NOT IDLE Parrotting by any means.Real naam japping Simran etc is LIVING GURBANI..so that we change our life..and others can see VISIBLE CHANGES. The FOUNDER..Guru Nanak Ki Ji showed us HOW....He got up early, He ploghed his fields, he sat the Modikhana, He went on a world wide journey, He threw water in the WRONG DIRECTION at hardwaar, He cooked meat on a FORBIDDEN DAY, He turrned the MINDS of millions AWAY from superstitions, bharams, wrong beleifs, that GOD only is inMecca..Hardwaar, Kanshi, He showed how aartee of idols is NOTHING compared to Natural Aartee ongoing in the Universe...NOT a MOMENT OF IDLENESS..a LIFE LONG JOURNEY..Honest KIRT..Wandd Chhaknna...Naam jappn in the REAL SENSE of the word. The NINE Successor Guurs followed EXACTLY. They Married, had children, spouses, family responsibilities, fought tyranny, wars agaisnt injustice, sold and bought horses, weapons, stocked medicines and herbs and gave out Ayurvedic Medicines to the SICK OF BODY, LIVING LIVES LIKE WE ALL DO...not an idle moment...and then WROTE DOWN thier KHASAM KI BANI..Instructiuons to achieve what they achieved..that is AApeh GUR..aapeh Chela...they gave us the Keys to Pio daadeh da khazanah...
THIS is the REASON there is NOT a SINGLE SHABAD..detailing the so called "METHODOLOGY" of Naam japp that so many self professed Gurus, Masters etc profess to tell us all...special clothes, special surroundings, rooms, carpets, positions of seating, environment, sounds heard, muisc to be played, etc etc etc etc etc...WHY ??? BECAUSE THIS IS UTTER RUBBISH and those who say are double guessing the GURUS.
GURBANI IS TRUTH and TRUTH MANIFESTS THROUGH HONEST GURBANI TYPE LIVING.

Gurbani clearly DETAILS..what is NOT TO BE DONE...double dhotees, Malas around the neck and in hands, special seating, positions postures, fasts, tilaks on foreheads, etc etc etc etc..SO MANY SHABADS DETAIL ALL SUCH NO NO NOS. No need to sit in aspecial posture..mumble pr parrott special words endlessly, no special foods or lack of foods,
JUST LIVE YOUR LIFE ACCORDING TO GURBANI....use the TOOLS provided..AAKleen SAHIB SEVEAH...not be-aklee parotting/mumbling/trying to IMPRESS (either the cheals/followers or Waheguru Himslef !!) The preponderance of this BE-AKLEE is the RESULT of the THOUSANDS of SAADHS/SANTS/Brahmgianais etc running hundreds of thousands of DERAS to enrich themsleves...everybody wants the INSTANT SUPER QUICK CHAUTHA PAD- without LIVING..the Honest Life Kirt and wanndd chhakna .

 

[Inder singh]

Re: Chauttah Pad: A spiritual life

Guru sahib advises us

gur satgur kaa jo sikh akhaa-ay so bhalkay uth har naam Dhi-aavai.
One who calls himself a Sikh of the Guru, the True Guru, shall rise in the early morning hours and meditate on the Lord's Name.

audmu kry Blky prBwqI iesnwnu kry AMimRq sir nwvY ] (305-17, gauVI, mÚ 4)
udam karay bhalkay parbhaatee isnaan karay amrit sar naavai.
Upon arising early in the morning, he is to bathe, and cleanse himself in the pool of nectar.


aupdyis gurU hir hir jpu jwpY siB iklivK pwp doK lih jwvY ] (305-18, gauVI, mÚ 4)
updays guroo har har jap jaapai sabh kilvikh paap dokh leh jaavai.
Following the Instructions of the Guru, he is to chant the Name of the Lord, Har, Har. All sins, misdeeds and negativity shall be erased.


iPir cVY idvsu gurbwxI gwvY bhidAw auTidAw hir nwmu iDAwvY ] (305-18, gauVI, mÚ 4)
fir charhai divas gurbaanee gaavai bahdi-aa uth-di-aa har naam Dhi-aavai.
Then, at the rising of the sun, he is to sing Gurbani; whether sitting down or standing up, he is to meditate on the Lord's Name.


jo swis igrwis iDAwey myrw hir hir so gurisKu gurU min BwvY ] (305-19, gauVI, mÚ 4)
jo saas giraas Dhi-aa-ay mayraa har har so gursikh guroo man bhaavai.
One who meditates on my Lord, Har, Har, with every breath and every morsel of food - that GurSikh becomes pleasing to the Guru's Mind.
jis no da-i-aal hovai mayraa su-aamee tis gursikh guroo updays sunaavai.
That person, unto whom my Lord and Master is kind and compassionate - upon that GurSikh, the Guru's Teachings are bestowed. jnu nwnku DUiV mMgY iqsu gurisK kI jo Awip jpY Avrh nwmu jpwvY ]2] (306-2, gauVI, mÚ 4)
jan naanak Dhoorh mangai tis gursikh kee jo aap japai avrah naam japaavai. ||2||
Servant Nanak begs for the dust of the feet of that GurSikh, who himself chants the Naam, and inspires others to chant it. ||2||


ang 305


It is strange to read how sikhs of today have started interpreting naam japna. Suffice to say that nam japna is not parroting. By saying so they are slandering Sikh rehat maryada that specifically details method of naam jap.

 

[Inder singh]

Re: Chauttah Pad: A spiritual life

What is the modus operandi in reaching the Fourth Stage ?

sireeraag mehlaa 3.
Siree Raag, Third Mehl: suK swgru hir nwmu hY gurmuiK pwieAw jwie ] (29-2, isrIrwgu, mÚ 3)
sukh saagar har naam hai gurmukh paa-i-aa jaa-ay.
The Name of the Lord is the Ocean of Peace; the Gurmukhs obtain it.
Anidnu nwmu iDAweIAY shjy nwim smwie ] (29-3, isrIrwgu, mÚ 3)
an-din naam Dhi-aa-ee-ai sehjay naam samaa-ay.
Meditating on the Naam, night and day, they are easily and intuitively absorbed in the Naam.
AMdru rcY hir sc isau rsnw hir gux gwie ]1] (29-3, isrIrwgu, mÚ 3)
andar rachai har sach si-o rasnaa har gun gaa-ay. ||1||
Their inner beings are immersed in the True Lord; they sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord. ||1||
BweI ry jgu duKIAw dUjY Bwie ] (29-4, isrIrwgu, mÚ 3)
bhaa-ee ray jag dukhee-aa doojai bhaa-ay.
O Siblings of Destiny, the world is in misery, engrossed in the love of duality.
gur srxweI suKu lhih Anidnu nwmu iDAwie ]1] rhwau ] (29-4, isrIrwgu, mÚ 3)
gur sarnaa-ee sukh laheh an-din naam Dhi-aa-ay. ||1|| rahaa-o.
In the Sanctuary of the Guru, peace is found, meditating on the Naam night and day. ||1||Pause||
swcy mYlu n lwgeI mnu inrmlu hir iDAwie ] (29-5, isrIrwgu, mÚ 3)
saachay mail na laag-ee man nirmal har Dhi-aa-ay.
The truthful ones are not stained by filth. Meditating on the Lord, their minds remain pure.
gurmuiK sbdu pCwxIAY hir AMimRq nwim smwie ] (29-5, isrIrwgu, mÚ 3)
gurmukh sabad pachhaanee-ai har amrit naam samaa-ay.
The Gurmukhs realize the Word of the Shabad; they are immersed in the Ambrosial Nectar of the Lord's Name.
gur igAwnu pRcMfu blwieAw AigAwnu AMDyrw jwie ]2] (29-6, isrIrwgu, mÚ 3)
gur gi-aan parchand balaa-i-aa agi-aan anDhayraa jaa-ay. ||2||
The Guru has lit the brilliant light of spiritual wisdom, and the darkness of ignorance has been dispelled. ||2||
mnmuK mYly mlu Bry haumY iqRsnw ivkwru ] (29-7, isrIrwgu, mÚ 3)
manmukh mailay mal bharay ha-umai tarisnaa vikaar.
The self-willed manmukhs are polluted. They are filled with the pollution of egotism, wickedness and desire.
ibnu sbdY mYlu n auqrY mir jMmih hoie KuAwru ] (29-7, isrIrwgu, mÚ 3)
bin sabdai mail na utrai mar jameh ho-ay khu-aar.
Without the Shabad, this pollution is not washed off; through the cycle of death and rebirth, they waste away in misery.
Dwqur bwjI plic rhy nw aurvwru n pwru ]3] (29-8, isrIrwgu, mÚ 3)
Dhaatur baajee palach rahay naa urvaar na paar. ||3||
Engrossed in this transitory drama, they are not at home in either this world or the next. ||3||
gurmuiK jp qp sMjmI hir kY nwim ipAwru ] (29-8, isrIrwgu, mÚ 3)
gurmukh jap tap sanjmee har kai naam pi-aar.
For the Gurmukh, the love of the Name of the Lord is chanting, deep meditation and self-discipline.
gurmuiK sdw iDAweIAY eyku nwmu krqwru ] (29-9, isrIrwgu, mÚ 3)
gurmukh sadaa Dhi-aa-ee-ai ayk naam kartaar.
The Gurmukh meditates forever on the Name of the One Creator Lord.
nwnk nwmu iDAweIAY sBnw jIAw kw AwDwru ]4]7]40] (29-9, isrIrwgu, mÚ 3)
naanak naam Dhi-aa-ee-ai sabhnaa jee-aa kaa aaDhaar. ||4||7||40||
O Nanak, meditate on the Naam, the Name of the Lord, the Support of all beings. ||4||7||40||


ang 29


By following the method as followed by countless Gursikhs who achieved this by becoming Gurmukhs and not to set new paths of opur own.

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Chauttah Pad: A spiritual life

Guru sahib advises us

It is strange to read how sikhs of today have started interpreting naam japna. Suffice to say that nam japna is not parroting. By saying so they are slandering Sikh rehat maryada that specifically details method of naam jap.

You seem to be saying that "interpreting" is adverse to "reciting" and that people who have a problem with "parroting" are in the dark because they also want to know what the words mean. When and by whom were Sikhs prohibited from a vichaar of Japuji Sahib?

If that is not what you mean, Inder ji, please explain.

 

[Inder singh]

Re: Chauttah Pad: A spiritual life

aad ji

Procedure of naam japna is explained in sikh rehat maryada elaborately. There is no vagueness here.Nam japna has stages that we arrive at when we are in the process such as reciation by tongue
to start with followed by rasna and surat. then it goes in our system.

So to call it parroting is ignorance and slander of sikh rehat maryada that has been derived by dedicated well learned Gursikhs after deliberations of over 16 years.

Read

Sikh Reht Maryada, The Definition of Sikh, Sikh Conduct & Conventions, Sikh Religion Living, India

[SIZE=-1]Meditating on Nam (Divine Substance) and Scriptures
Article IV
1. A Sikh should wake up in the ambrosial hours (three hours before the dawn), take bath and, concentrating his/her thoughts on One Immortal Being, repeat the name Waheguru (Wondrous Destroyer of darkness). [/SIZE]

Read the line below

an-din naam Dhi-aa-ee-ai sehjay naam samaa-ay.
Meditating on the Naam, night and day, they are easily and intuitively absorbed in the Naam.[/QUOTE

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Chauttah Pad: A spiritual life

aad ji

Procedure of naam japna is explained in sikh rehat maryada elaborately. There is no vagueness here.Nam japna has stages that we arrive at when we are in the process such as reciation by tongue
to start with followed by rasna and surat. then it goes in our system.

So to call it parroting is ignorance and slander of sikh rehat maryada that has been derived by dedicated well learned Gursikhs after deliberations of over 16 years.

Read

Sikh Reht Maryada, The Definition of Sikh, Sikh Conduct & Conventions, Sikh Religion Living, India

[SIZE=-1]Meditating on Nam (Divine Substance) and Scriptures
Article IV
1. A Sikh should wake up in the ambrosial hours (three hours before the dawn), take bath and, concentrating his/her thoughts on One Immortal Being, repeat the name Waheguru (Wondrous Destroyer of darkness). [/SIZE]

Read the line below

an-din naam Dhi-aa-ee-ai sehjay naam samaa-ay.
Meditating on the Naam, night and day, they are easily and intuitively absorbed in the Naam.[/QUOTE

Inder ji

I read the Sikh Maryada on a regular basis for a number of different purposes. I also read the Guru Granth everyday in addition to daily banis. So I am 100 percent aware of the rehit and what Guruji tells us regarding how to recite banis. The rehit does not forbid vichaar of Japjui Sahib. Neither does Guruji.


That was not what I asked you. I already know and have known for several years what SRM says and what Guruji says. Recitation and interpretation are two different things. One can do both poorly. One can do both well. One can do one poorly and the other one well. All of that is beside the point.

I asked you why you think that vichaar of Japjui and proper recitation of Japjui are muitually exclusive. I wil ask again. Where is it written that a vichaar of Japjui is prohibited? Who said so?

One final request. Do not write on these matters as if I am ill informed on these matters or an idiot.

 

[Inder singh]

Re: Chauttah Pad: A spiritual life

Where is it written that a vichaar of Japjui is prohibited? Who said so?

One final request. Do not write on these matters as if I am ill informed on these matters or an idiot.

i never said that vichar of japji sahib is prohibited. One need to read and contemplate Gurbani as much as possible.

What i say that vichar does not make naam japna an obsolete exercise as some are pointing here.

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Chauttah Pad: A spiritual life

i never said that vichar of japji sahib is prohibited. One need to read and contemplate Gurbani as much as possible.

What i say that vichar does not make naam japna an obsolete exercise as some are pointing here.

Thanks for the clarification. Who said that naamj apna was an obsolete exercise? I will be back online later to find out.

 

[Inder singh]

Re: Chauttah Pad: A spiritual life

Thanks for the clarification. Who said that naamj apna was an obsolete exercise? I will be back online later to find out.

Please read the posts and you will come to know. It is being said that nam japna is a ritual etc. etc.

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Chauttah Pad: A spiritual life

Inder ji

Forgive me -- But you are the one who made the accusation that one or more forum members said that naam japna is a useless exercise. So now you cannot back-pedal and ask me to re-read all the comments to see who said it. You made the claim so now... Please identify the person or persons who said that naam japna is a useless exercise. It is your turn.

Yesterday I wasted a lot of time trying to figure out why someone thought that Gyani ji had been negative about women in a supposed comment about lillies and mud-ponds. He never even brought such up. I knew it was a hollow claim. But I checked anyway (for both Punjabi and English phrases), it wasn't there, and concluded that hollow accusations are becoming a habit.

 

[Inder singh]

Re: Chauttah Pad: A spiritual life

Inder ji

Forgive me -- But you are the one who made the accusation that one or more forum members said that naam japna is a useless exercise. So now you cannot back-pedal and ask me to re-read all the comments to see who said it. You made the claim so now... Please identify the person or persons who said that naam japna is a useless exercise. It is your turn.

Yesterday I wasted a lot of time trying to figure out why someone thought that Gyani ji had been negative about women in a supposed comment about lillies and mud-ponds. He never even brought such up. I knew it was a hollow claim. But I checked anyway (for both Punjabi and English phrases), it wasn't there, and concluded that hollow accusations are becoming a habit.

Aad ji

You may remember that discussion was on chautha pad.This is mentioned in gurbani and most of us know that chautha pad is achieved by nam jap with honest life being the basics. There was a query from Ajmer singh and i cited bandginama by Bhai raghbir singh ji for his reference.

We all know that gurbani does not endorse any meaningless rituals or life of a sanyasi but does supprt naam japna. Then came a post quoted below . Then there were posts ridiculing nam japna as parroting. I do not understand how such a conscious person like you failed to gauge those posts.

It is not my job to point out the posts of others for you. If you have any questions next time yourself as a participant in this thread feel free to ask me and i will reply per my understanding. If you have no questions then let the discussion proceed.

quote

Dear Friends,We are lucky to be born Sikhs,for the Guru has shown us how to be truly liberated.Liberation....Chautha Pad does not ensue from a life given to austerities,renunciation and myriads of meaningless rituals.Gurmat teaches us that this world is real.So live in accordance with the Guru,s Hukam:ਨਾਨਕ ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ ਭੇਟਿਐ ਪੂਰੀ ਹੋਵੈ ਜੁਗਤਿ ॥
Source:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=25433 (Chauttah Pad: A spiritual life)
नानक सतिगुरि भेटिऐ पूरी होवै जुगति ॥
Nānak saṯgur bẖeti▫ai pūrī hovai jugaṯ.
O Nanak, meeting the True Guru, one comes to know the Perfect Way.

ਹਸੰਦਿਆ ਖੇਲੰਦਿਆ ਪੈਨੰਦਿਆ ਖਾਵੰਦਿਆ ਵਿਚੇ ਹੋਵੈ ਮੁਕਤਿ ॥੨॥
हसंदिआ खेलंदिआ पैनंदिआ खावंदिआ विचे होवै मुकति ॥२॥
Hasanḏi▫ā kẖelanḏi▫ā painanḏi▫ā kẖāvanḏi▫ā vicẖe hovai mukaṯ. ||2||
While laughing, playing, dressing and eating, he is liberated. ||2||


And also:

ਵਿਚਿ ਦੁਨੀਆ ਸੇਵ ਕਮਾਈਐ ॥
विचि दुनीआ सेव कमाईऐ ॥
vicẖ ḏunī▫ā sev kamā▫ī▫ai.
In the midst of this world, do seva,

ਤਾ ਦਰਗਹ ਬੈਸਣੁ ਪਾਈਐ ॥
ता दरगह बैसणु पाईऐ ॥
Ŧā ḏargėh baisaṇ pā▫ī▫ai.
Source:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=25433 (Chauttah Pad: A spiritual life)
and you shall be given a place of honor in the Court of the Lord.

The Guru has shown us THE WAY but if escapism,austerities and meaningless rituals seem so endearing,then we have to make concerted efforts to understand the Guru,s Word.Gurbani says...Raj na chahun, mukat na chahun, man preet charan kamlaare. What is this preet charan? It is to have complete faith in Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib and follow its teachings religiously.It is to make constant efforts to imbibe all those attributes ascribed to Akal Purakh andto do it while seeking the Grace of God.Simple and straightforward. Gurmat Gaadi Rah HumblySatnam Singh Randhawa​

 

[Inder singh]

Re: Chauttah Pad: A spiritual life

aad ji

Another refrence for you. You must be aware that bhagti or meditation is done while sitting in a posture.

quote

The word dhi-a-idi-a here does not mean sitting in a particular posture and chanting God,s name.To me it means constant awareness of the presence of God and all my actions being guided by Him to the point they do not seem belaboured and there is a spontaneity about them.