Consumption Of Alcohol Amongst Sikhs

[prakash.s.bagga]

HARBANS Ji 24,
I think instead of indulging into an unending discussion on such issue we should rather adopt a pragmatic view.
Before signing the declaration any one should delete the condition which he/she does not conform.After all the conditions of the declaration are not MANDATORY,I suppose.
This way any one can avoid signing a FALSE declaration.
This is only a suggestion pl
Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[Mai Harinder Kaur]

One thing I find interesting is that while it clearly is impossible to be 100% compliant to the SRM, the three things asked of here can be complied with 100%. Think about it:

1. Keep kesh
2. Teetotal
3. Eschew tobacco

These things can be done. In fact, that is demanded of all Amritdhari Sikhs. I'm not sure the significance of this. I just noticed it and thought it interesting.

 

[Tejwant Singh1]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
Just like degradation in the environment, there is degradation in all societies, cultures and religions of the world.
Long time ago in the mid-sixties, I came across a Santji in Chandigarh while, by chance, visiting someone. The emphasis of his impromptu discourse was to align with Gurbani and Naam. He said that terrible times are going to come by the turn of the twentieth century. Sikhi would be under attack and Harmandir Sahib would be blooded. Many Sikhs would maintain outer appearance but will not be observant. Then the turban will start vanishing and 'koi koi reh jai ga sachha Sikh' -a few will remain true Sikhs.
He also said that by the turn of the twentieth century degradation of Muslims will set in. They shall rise and go to the extremes. Then Islam will finish. According to predictions of Nostradamus for the same period, the Devil will come from the underworld :Consider black oil as the Devil which has given much power to the Muslim world.
Santji also said that there shall be a wave to convert to Sikhism and to the purity of the Khalsa order :an exemplary faith -we don't go around asking others to convert; truly democratic and a peoples faith; selfless Sewa; Langar; singing Kirtan (Christians never used to sing in Churches and they started around 500 years ago after Guru Nanak Devji went to Mecca, Medina and Jerusalem preaching about Kirtan.)
Now about "Consumption of Alcohol Amongst Sikhs". I suppose this is part of the world wide degradation.
Holy Guru Granth Sahib says' "If He desires you to worship Him, He shall make you meet the True Guru". Therefore, let us consider it as the Hukum of Waheguru that He has kept close to His Heart those He loves as His true devotees. And He has pushed away those He does not love into a punishment :drugs; consumption of alcohol and tobacco; aborting/killing daughters in favour of sons; dowry deaths; much emphasis on materialism; partying and watching TV serials in the Amritvela when it is time to do Guru Sewa; and whatever else.
Going back to the form from the DSGMC, the correct question should have been "Are you an observant Sikh?" To ask such a question, the Jathedars ought to be observant in the first place.
Le me give you an example about the high handedness of Jathedars. In 1998, I was almost attacked in the SGPC office by one of the semi-literate Jathedars (in the modern context) who shouted at me, "You have been a fauji officer and must have had alcohol. How can you write and make a TV serial on the Khalsa now?" (I had gone to seek permission for a 52 episode TV serial titled 'Badshah Dervesh' which never saw the light of the day after that.)
Therefore readers, there is no point finding fault with those who are indulging. Just feel sorry for them and ask Waheguru to keep you on the path of True Sikhi and righteousness.
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
Tejwant Singh1

 

[nbagga]

This is definitely a good example of hypcoricy i believe many people today are keeping beard and wearing turban just to be absorbed in the community and identified from SIKH families

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

TEJWANT SINGH Ji,

You are fullly right in your views.We ,as in personal capacity have no right to dictate the life of individual.We are simply authrised to communicate the correct message of our GURU-GUR.Rest of the job GURU-GUR will perform knowing the inside status of the individual.
You can also unerstand it is all about POLITICS too.We can not avoid this .But there shall always be the need of amendments in the various charters and this should be evaluated from time to time as per need of the society.
But one thing I would certainly like to emphasise that A TRUE GURSIKH does not make use of personal choices in leading the life.For any GURSIKH the words of SGGS is the only choice.

Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[Harry Haller]

I suppose I am what you may call a lapsed sikh, in that I have rejected most of the physical ideals of what it is to be a sikh.

I look like this because in my mid twenties, having started to enjoy life, and having realised that in our culture, appearance is much more important than mental discipline, I sadly came to the conclusion that I could not be a sikh anymore. My father you see, is one of those sikhs who is close to perfect, he did not drink, he only had eyes for my mother, and he was (and still is) a good man, both in thought and in practice. He deserved to wear a turban and he deserved the respect that looking like a sikh brought. I felt that I did not, catching sight of myself in a club drinking one day, in my turban, I felt revulsed that I was bringing shame not only on my religion, but on my father. I made my decision because I did not want to live a lie.

Yes, lots of sikhs do drink, and some might say they were not true sikhs, in the same way that I am not a true sikh, but there are many many more that do not drink, but in thought commit much greater sins.

Which is worse? and which sikh is closer to god? he who drinks, but whose thoughts are pure, or he who maintains the complete identity of the sikh, the actions of a sikh, but whose mind is a cesspit

I personally believe that the ability to see god in every living being, to love and assist, and to keep ones thoughts pure and chaste, are much more important than the subject of alcohol or appearance

 

[nbagga]

Guru Fateh Ji,


It is really sad but heights of hypocricy is that many people maintain beard and wear turban just to be identified as a part of pias community.


Sat Sri Akal

 

[Tejindersinghdelhi]

animatedkhanda1 Dear all,

waheguru ji ka khalsa, waheguru ji ki fateh.

The question raised through this forum is very important from the Sikh point of view. As already stated, many sikhs play false while registering as voters for the elections to the DSGMS. The drinking alcohol is a social evil world-wide, but has been included in the Sikh Code of Conduct as punishable ' tankhia'. Here I would like to add that 'tankhia' Sikh should not be permitted to be in the voters list for electing administrators in the supreme body of gurdwara management in Delhi or elsewhere. The definition of 'Sikh' in the Sikh Rehat Maryada announced from Sri Akal Takhat does not include Sharab sevan as disqualification for being called as a Sikh. However, it includes those who have faith in the Khande bate da Amrit of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji and teachings of all Gurus from Guru Nanak Dev JI and Guru Granth Sahib ji. Therefore, only Sikhs have to be in the voters list to constitute the electoral college for elections to the Gurdwara Management body. So a Sikh has been forbidden from taking drinks else one will become entitled to punishment as 'tankhia'.

Having said so, it is also true that a sikh becomes 'tankhia' and does not earn a disqualification to be called a Sikh. Therefore, those who drink, to my mind have to exercise self control and leaving drinking habits which are bad for the social and religious conduct as a Sikh. Every Sikh must move closer to the Sikh Rehat Maryada to become a true Sikh as drinking has been prohibited in Gurbani of Guru Granth Sahib Ji also. Gurbani says " Jit pite mat door hove, baral pave which aye, aisa madh (sharab) mool na pichye je ka par vasai". It made pite (drinking sharab) Nanaka bahute khatia vikar'. Gurbani also says that even if holy water of Ganges is used to distil liquor, the saintly persons do not drink such a liquor ( Bhagat Kabir Ji).

So every Sikh must respect Gurbani in Guru Granth Sahib ji a leave the bad habit of drinking alcohol, which, while being dangerous for health, family, social and religious life of a Sikh in particular and all others in general. I leave it to the conscience of every Sikh to be honest while filling up or not filling up forms for being included in the electoral college for election to the membership to the DSGMS which has to be manage Sikh historic Gurdwaras in Delhi.

I am sure such a condition is also there for those who aspire or stand as candidate to become member of DSGMC. The above guidelines equally apply to all such prospective candidates. The political parties fighting Gurdwara elections have to play a very important role in educating Sikhs about the importance of Gurdwara elections and confining to the conditions in the form for become a member in the voting list for Gurdwara Elections and those who aspire to fight as Member in the DSGMC. The Sikh Sangat and prabhandaks of local Gurdwara Committee also need to play a useful role in educating sikhs in this regard.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Krishan Ji..
The SGGS is a lot of things..BUT one thing its NOT.
Its NOT a Dictum Book. Its NOT a Book of LAWS. Its not a DO this and DONT do that list.
Its a book of Divine Experiences by the Divine Messengers of the Divine Entity...and teaches us HOW we too can experience the DIVINE WITHIN US and within all His Creation.
Thus the SGGS is UNIVERSAL...for all by All to ALL....Hindu, Sikh, Muslim, Isaii, or Bahai, Zoroastrain, jain, Buddhist, atheist, whatever and whomsoever...

2. The Code of Conduct is the SRM - Sikh Rehat maryada and it applies ONLY to "SIKHS...who wish to be " conducted and Coded !! NO force necessary or applied to those unwilling to be "conducted and codified"....rangesingh::redturban::blueturban::happysingh::grinningkaur::grinningsingh:cheerleaderjapposatnamwaheguru:

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

TEJINDERSINGHDELHI JI,
You have presented your views in a very candid and really appreciatice way.This is a major social issue and requires proper education of the persons about this evil which is more prominently visible in Sikh comunity.
Let us always make ARDASi before SATiGURu ji to be graceful to get rid of this evil.SATiGURu ji just can do anything.I am myself witness to such a wonderful grace of SATiGURu ji.I have witnessed a hardcore DRINKER totally abondoning any liquor .This person was simply asked to listen to Gurbaani in an AKHANPATH ceremony specially for this purpose.

Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[inderjitk]

:interestedmunda:me too

 

[nbagga]

Gurfateh,


Even if you goto Gurudwara Bangla Sahib outside joda ghar it is mentioned people with trimmed hair or beard would are not allowed to de seva and but what about people who drink,chew tobacco eat meat and look at women with disrespect.

Sat Sri Akal

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

nbagga ji

Your information is really shocking .
I can only say this.

Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

The whole problem what we are facing in current times seems to be due to the very DEFINITION of SIKH.
Our GURUs have no where defined as to who can be a SIKH.It is Panthic definition of 20th century.Our 10th GURU GOBIND SINGH Ji Created Khalsaand the
identity was mandatory for Khalsa.At that time a word SINGH was added as identity of Khalsa in Name.
At that time there were both Khalsa as SINGH and Non Khalsa as SIKHS.According to this EVERY SINGH IS A SIKH but EVERY SIKH is not necessarily a SINGH.
With the passage of time it was realised that every SIKH should be identitified as SINGH only.It appears that this concept has not been propery clarified in a convincing way and probably this is tha cause of initial separation of people in different segments with their belief associated with SGGS .
As on date and for futures , a SIKH is only a person with identity of being A SINGH and observant of SRM.This fact is going to remain.
I have mentioned all this in response to Mr nbagga s observation.It is for the Managements of Gurdwaras to take a balancing views in certain area s where a person of any caste,creed and Nature can participate and the feelings such as of Mr nbagga
can be properly respected.

Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[ravindra.saini]

This is something that I wanted to say...but then who will show the path of righteiousness...who will tell us that we are in a wrong path..?

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

RAVINDER SAINI Ji,

ONLY AND ONLY SGGS

When person like you start connecting and grasp the messages of GURU-GUR of your own.
Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[anm_chh]

i don't think Consumption of Alcohol is bad, but excess of everything is bad, as for myself never smoke or drink but i know d disadvantages of alcohol

 

[Tejwant Singh1]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
Just like degradation in the environment, there is degradation in all societies, cultures and religions of the world.
Long time ago in the mid-sixties, I came across a Santji in Chandigarh while, by chance, visiting someone. The emphasis of his impromptu discourse was to align with Gurbani and Naam. He said that terrible times are going to come by the turn of the twentieth century. Sikhi would be under attack and Harmandir Sahib would be blooded. Many Sikhs would maintain outer appearance but will not be observant. Then the turban will start vanishing and 'koi koi reh jai ga sachha Sikh' -a few will remain true Sikhs.
He also said that by the turn of the twentieth century degradation of Muslims will set in. They shall rise and go to the extremes. Then Islam will finish. According to predictions of Nostradamus for the same period, the Devil will come from the underworld :Consider black oil as the Devil which has given much power to the Muslim world.
Santji also said that there shall be a wave to convert to Sikhism and to the purity of the Khalsa order :an exemplary faith -we don't go around asking others to convert; truly democratic and a peoples faith; selfless Sewa; Langar; singing Kirtan (Christians never used to sing in Churches and they started around 500 years ago after Guru Nanak Devji went to Mecca, Medina and Jerusalem preaching about Kirtan.)
Now about "Consumption of Alcohol Amongst Sikhs". I suppose this is part of the world wide degradation.
Holy Guru Granth Sahib says' "If He desires you to worship Him, He shall make you meet the True Guru". Therefore, let us consider it as the Hukum of Waheguru that He has kept close to His Heart those He loves as His true devotees. And He has pushed away those He does not love into a punishment :drugs; consumption of alcohol and tobacco; aborting/killing daughters in favour of sons; dowry deaths; much emphasis on materialism; partying and watching TV serials in the Amritvela when it is time to do Guru Sewa; and whatever else.
Going back to the form from the DSGMC, the correct question should have been "Are you an observant Sikh?" To ask such a question, the Jathedars ought to be observant in the first place.
Le me give you an example about the high handedness of Jathedars. In 1998, I was almost attacked in the SGPC office by one of the semi-literate Jathedars (in the modern context) who shouted at me, "You have been a fauji officer and must have had alcohol. How can you write and make a TV serial on the Khalsa now?" (I had gone to seek permission for a 52 episode TV serial titled 'Badshah Dervesh' which never saw the light of the day after that.)
Therefore readers, there is no point finding fault with those who are indulging. Just feel sorry for them and ask Waheguru to keep you on the path of True Sikhi and righteousness.
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
Tejwant Singh1

 

[nbagga]

Gurfateh Prakash ji,


I believe any one who believes in Sikhism and believes in all Gurus should have the freedom to follow Sikhism i will tell you a shameful incident happend with one of my friend living in Australia originally from chandigarh and believer of Sikhism however belongs to sharma family and doesnt have beard and doesnt wear a turban and his room mate from some deep village in Punjab asked him that anyone or everyone who doesnt have singh in his name shouldnt be residing in Punjab....What kind of thinking is that and i dont understand what is developing this kind of shameful thinking.

It is really sad to see our Turban wearing SING sikh brothers consider their Non Singh(SIKH) brothers seperate from them, we talk about fighting racism happening with PUNJABI community outside INDIA but what about our own country

My grand father was born in a Singh family but brought by his non singh relatives since his parents died at an early age and his relatives removed singh from his name and cut his hair so that nobody discriminates him to be adopted however he was a true preacher of all SIKH gurus and used to do wake up at 4:00 AM in the morning to offer the morning prayers to WAHEGURU JI does that still make him NON SIKH.

Unfortunately due to that one change i dont wear a turban or carry the few such physical attributes of being so called today's SIKH and my name doesnt have singh but it continues to be BAGGA and i proudly call myself a SIKH as i understand SIKH means disciple or student of his GURU.

Sat Sri Akal

 

[seeker3k]

Tejwent Singh ji,
I am shocked by your statement that even women drink now days. Why is the shock? Are women diffrant then men? IF that is what you think then is it not discremination? What I can understand that it is ok for men to drink but not for women.
If we try to choose sikhs who drink or eat meat, then what else we shold look for? What about lie cheeting stealing even just little. What if a person pick up one grape at shop to taste, is it wrong too?
If we do that then there be no sikhs left in Sikhsim.
I think it is time we move forward to bring people from other faiths into Sikhism. Or Sikhism be gone sooner then later.
It is not what man eat drink or wear. It is how they live their life. This is 21<SUP>st</SUP> century not the 15<SUP>th</SUP>.