Consumption Of Alcohol Amongst Sikhs

[seeker3k]

Why any one have to do nasha of any kind?

I am jatt too and I also use to drink at get together. I also made my own daru in UK at home. IT has been more then 40 years since I touched whisky meat egg fish,

In my understanding I maybe wrong on this. Most people drink to feel confident. Once one know himself he/she don’t need any nasha to feel good. IT is all with in one just have to look inward. Why I am doing what I am doing?

There is pear pressure by the society. One who is strong will not be swayed by any one.We are all depended on many thing some on nasha,meat,coffee, tea, so on and on. We are hooked on taste and nasha. That mean we who are doing these nashas are slave of those thing. I say become free do not be slave of any thing or any one.

 

[barusaby]

there is one term "100%"

and whatever i wrote, is 100% true. HE is my own bhaanja. And I am really surprized to get replies like the one of yours. and one other person, who says that i am good at story telling.

and i have also seen so many other examples of youth, who started with trimming and are now a nuisance for their parents and society.

and they have become really a KALANK on sikhi.

and at last, i am also disheartened that a completely true and authentic description about my own bhaanja seemed to you people a STORY.


god bless you.

sikhan da mann neevan matt uchchi. we daily pray.

and i pray right now again the same.

 

[davinderdhanjal]

Education is necessary to be able to discern the difference between 'good' and 'bad'.
In my life I have consumed alcohol and stopped too. It takes at least three to four weeks before one returns to normality to pick up the pieces again.
One thing that is missing in most comments is the reason why we should not drink - just saying GGSJ says does not help those who do not get that far. The reason has to help those who feel either they will improve by not drinking or achieve oneness with the Lord.
The example of the person who started with trimming beard and degenerated from that is in my view truer than anything I have come across.
In a book called conversation with God - the person explains that difference between a mere person and people like Guru Nanak and the like is that the latter follow the the inner voice (god's direction) at all corners. Whereas we my think I can bend this slightly without anybody or anything visibly damning and from there on one deviates from straight route pointing to Truth (Lord), the longer we keep doing that farther we lose the way. Just imagine if you wanted to revert back - could you retrace those bends you took - to get back on the right path?
In my personal experiance once I started drinking the thinking was coloured - everything I wanted to do had to do with drink - you cannot think 'good', if there is a choice of 'good with some drink' I would look for those directions - to get away from that process may take years. In my case it took a book by Bhai Randhir Singh to show me the strength you can achieve by following Sikhi.
With all due respect to GGSJ - the answer has to be example in live form - then a person may be ready to get to the level where one can find answers in GGSJ. Sikhi is not easy but once you are a Gursikh not much can touch you either!
As a matter of interest about Bang etc. - Babarnama has good explanation of what Babar used to use as intoxicants to go round teachings of Islam - may be Nihangs may have followed his example.

 

[Amarpal]

Dear Khalsa Ji,

Guru Sahib has asked his Sikhs to keep their brain sharp, clean and focused. Thus any intake or addiction that impinges on the capabilities of the brain is contrary to the teachings of Siri Guru Granth Sahib. Hence a true Sikh should not eat of drink any intoxicating substance. this includes alchohol or any such drug.

This is my understanding.

With love and respect for all.

Amarpal Singh

 

[seeker3k]

Davinderdhanjal asked the very good question. Why one should not drink
Alcohal is bad for liver. Maybe this is not enough reason to not to drink. There is a big reason why man should not drink. I mean over drink. One peg a day can be beneficial. But it is best not to drink. The real good reason is that in the west there have been many studies done. Excess drink for man is it makes a man impotent. I have a chance to help about 10 men in this. I show them the research how it is bad and makes one impotent. One of the things I tell them if they don’t stop drinking their wife’s will start looking for another man for the satisfaction. Few have lost their wife. It was too late for them but they stopped drinking. Some of then are white men.
Whisky cost money many men run out of money before the payday. I also showed them how they can save money by not drinking and smoking.
<?"urn:fficeffice" /><o> </o>
Waste money
Miss work
Lose good friends
Lose health
Lose self-confidence.
Fight in family.
Set bad examples for kids
Can end up in jail.
<o> </o>
Naam khumari nanka,cheri hare din-rat.

 

[Mai Harinder Kaur]

There are many physical reasons not to drink.

There are also spiritual reasons not to drink (or take other drugs, too.) When I have intoxicants in my system, I simply cannot maintain anything like a contact with Akal Purakh. For various ailments. I have my doctor has prescribed narcotic painkillers. I find that if I take them, my nitnem is just a jumble of sounds, naam jap becomes mechanical and self-hypnotic and forget any other sort of simran.

To me this is more serious than messing up my liver.

 

[Harwinder]

Alcohol Was orginally used and invented as medicene; correct me if i am wrong. Soon there after people started using it as recreational and entertainment is when it got bad. People liked the affect it had.

"Anything to an excisive amount is not good for you"

Alcohol Should stay as a medicine and thats it

 

[seeker3k]

For the normal person the pain killers are needed. The trick is not get hooked on pain killers.
<?"urn:fficeffice" /><o> </o>
In my case when I had heart by-pass at the hospital they gave me pain killer. When I got home after 3 days they gave me bottle of pain killer. I took it for 2 days. I stopped taking them. It doesn’t mean I was not in pain. I can control the pain up to some extent.
<o> </o>
What I am about to say is not what I approve or tell any one to try it.
Bhang on the other hand is different. For long time I wanted to do the experiment. About 15 years ago I went to <?xml::ffice:smarttags" /><st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">India</st1:country-region> there bhang grows wild all over. So I eat it in samosas. It took about 30-40 min to take effect. My nephews were all giggling out of control.
I lay down on bed and try to meditate. I was feeling the same sensation as I were in samdhi. Bhabg can be used to go in Samadhi. But the trick is not to get hooked on it like th nahangs are.
<o> </o>
It is the self control that one need for not to drink or take any nasha to relax.
Bhang is very detrimental for the sex life.

 

[barusaby]

Why should we not drink?

To be natural is obeying the Hukam of the Almighty. Whenever one goes unnatural, he defies the Hukam. Cutting the hair, provided by the Almighty, is unnatural. Eating meat, is unnatural, because the structure of teeth of man is to be only vegetarian as compared to animals, who have their teeth specially structured to tear apart the flesh. Drinking alcohol is also unnatural, as unlike water, it affects badly the senses, and attacks organs to lead them to failure and other deadly diseases. i have seen people going mad after drinking. i saw twice this example in my life. my sister's Devar (brother in law) in bombay went mad twice, as we went to have dinner to my sister's Nanaan (sister in law). Devar went on to tear apart his Baniyan (under garment) after fighting his sister's father. He went on to abuse that respectable man in front of all the family members. He was thrown out of the house, then he started threatening the neighbors with brick in his hands. I have numerous examples where drinking alcohol took men out of their senses. My own elder brother went out of senses many times and started abusing my parents by calling them Tu Tu instead of Tusi Tusi..........

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Barusby Ji,

The "TEETH" argument doesnt stand at all.
Human Teeth are NOT exactly like those of the cow, horse, elephant, buffalo, sheep - purely vegetarians. They have NO TEARING TEETH..mostly GRINDERS ONLY.
The teeth of PURELY FLESH eating animals are more inclined to TEARING flesh and very less towards GRINDING.
However Humans have BOTH types..TEARING ones as well as GRINDERS. Other primates like Monkeys oran utans, gorillas etc also have this DUAL Combination.

This is BIOLOGY and can be proven absolutley. ....unlike Gurbani tuks which cna be "misconstrued/truncated to change their tune...meaning..etc according to ones own opinions.

Regards:happysingh::interestedsingh:

 

[spnadmin]

I have just moved two posts to the thread Fools Who Wrangle over Flesh http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/8828-fools-who-wrangle-over-flesh.html

For some reason Gyani's comment about teeth triggered a digression. Maybe we need to reconsider his meaning as he talks about teeth in context. He is not getting at the question of meat versus veg. Thanks.

 

[davinderdhanjal]

I have not researched this but Guru Gobind Singh when he was attacked and I believe a dagger punctured his stomach - that had to be cleaned up and then stiched. What was used to numb that area of the body? For that matter the Gursikhs in wars must have had similar injuries that needed attention - how did they get over that?

 

[Kanwaljit.Singh]

Isn't it weird that we can prove something absolutely in Biology? While someone can present us Gurbani Tuks in a way which can mislead us? Why? Probably because we have just learnt to read and recite Gurbani! Our own wisdom in understanding Gurbani is so weak, that anyone can tell us anything and we will agree. For we never try and read Gurbani ourselves. We do paaths of Nitnem many times over, but we know less than 40% of what we read.

 

[spnadmin]

Isn't it weird that we can prove something absolutely in Biology?

Nothing is ever proved absolutely in any science, Biology or otherwise. This is one of the common misunderstandings that leads to a foolish wrangle between religion and science.

Proofs exist only in mathematics and logic, not in science. Mathematics and logic are both closed, self-contained systems of propositions, whereas science is empirical and deals with nature as it exists. The primary criterion and standard of evaluation of scientific theory is evidence, not proof. All else equal (such as internal logical consistency and parsimony), scientists prefer theories for which there is more and better evidence to theories for which there is less and worse evidence. Proofs are not the currency of science.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...sconceptions-about-science-i-scientific-proof

The practice of science is the practice of disproof. Science is a continual search for evidence that creates doubt about current understanding, and that opens up new questions for investigation and discovery. If this were not so, science would have laid back for a long snooze on past discoveries centuries ago and nothing new would be put forward.
icecreamkaur

 

[Tejwant Singh1]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

This is in reply to Devenderdanjal's question below:-

"I have not researched this but Guru Gobind Singh when he was attacked and I believe a dagger punctured his stomach - that had to be cleaned up and then stiched. What was used to numb that area of the body? For that matter the Gursikhs in wars must have had similar injuries that needed attention - how did they get over that?"

In the Indian scenario, Haldi was given to the injured. The injured were made to drink Haldi mixed in warm milk. As Haldi went in, it blocked small blood vessels which were leaking. To block larger blood vessels, Haldi poultice was applied externally. The Vaid of the army used to carry plenty of Haldi.
It is difficult to say how the Sikhs managed specially when they were on the run and fighting at odd times for their survival. We can admire their grit. That is what Sikhi is all about.
Ash is anti septic. If you keep something buried in ash it does not go bad. And it prevents ants and other insects and maggots from getting at the item. I suppose, the needle and thread used for stitching wounds must have been preserved in this manner.

May be someone else who reads SPN can throw more light on this.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

 

[spnadmin]

@ Tejwant Singh1 ji and davinderdhanjal ji

Guru Gobind Singh was slashed in the left side below the heart. He was attended by a European surgeon attached to the Persian court. Guru survived for a while, but the wound opened up. Later he died of blood poisoning.

Sakhian pursued the Guru secretly and overtook him at Nanded, where, according to Sri Gur Sobha by Senapati, a contemporary writer, one of them stabbed the Guru in the left side below the heart as he lay one evening in his chamber resting after the Rahrasi prayer. Before he could deal another blow, Guru Gobind Singh struck him down with his sabre, while his fleeing companion fell under the swords of Sikhs who had rushed in on hearing the noise. As the news reached Bahadur Shah's camp, he sent expert surgeons, including an Englishman, Cole by name, to attend on the Guru. The wound was stitched and appeared to have healed quickly but, as the Guru one day applied strength to pull a stiff bow, it broke out again and bled profusely. This weakened the Guru beyond cure and he passed away on Kattak sudi 5, 1765 Bk/7 October 1708.

http://www.sikh-history.com/sikhhist/gurus/nanak10.html

There is other evidence that the surgeon was an Italian/Venetian. http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-gurus/32474-did-italian-surgeon-attend-guru-gobind-3.html

 

[seeker3k]

There is contradiction in this. One sakhi says it was Cole English doctor other says it was Italian/
I think sakhis were written long after the death of Guru. What really happened no one knows.
<?"urn:fficeffice" /><o> </o>
It was demonstrated by acupuncturist that pressing on some point in the body the bleeding and pain can be stoped. Yogies know how to do that too. It is not hard to control the pain. Haldi is good to stop bleeding and it is antiseptic. There are few herbs that rubed on any part of body it can num that part.
<o> </o>
I wonder how far was Bhadur Shah from the guru’s camp?
There is another explanation of the death of Guru. It will not sit well with Sikhs so I better not say any thing.

 

[spnadmin]

There is contradiction in this. One sakhi says it was Cole English doctor other says it was Italian/
I think sakhis were written long after the death of Guru. What really happened no one knows.
<?"urn:fficeffice" /><o> </o>
It was demonstrated by acupuncturist that pressing on some point in the body the bleeding and pain can be stoped. Yogies know how to do that too. It is not hard to control the pain. Haldi is good to stop bleeding and it is antiseptic. There are few herbs that rubed on any part of body it can num that part.
<o> </o>
I wonder how far was Bhadur Shah from the guru’s camp?
There is another explanation of the death of Guru. It will not sit well with Sikhs so I better not say any thing.

seekr3 ji

At first glance it seems contradictory, but not really. First of all these are not skahi's but taken form Persian sources, historical accounts. Second, name "Cole" may have been a mis-spelling of the Italian name. So the account of the time was mixed up. Read the thread at the second link and you will see what I am talking about. There are some fascinating, and relatively unknown aspects, of Guru Gobind Singh's life at that thread.

 

[Harry Haller]

I think the question of alcohol is quite simple, and I think it applies equally to bhang, cough medicine, painkillers etc.

If you wish to converse with the almighty, you need to be as sober as a judge, and as clean minded as a saint.

If you wish to belong to a social group then it doesn't matter what you drink or think..

each of us takes out of sikhism what we want, but I have much respect for anyone who desires a presence with the almighty to the point where that feeling naturally dwarfs any intoxicant. It is not a question of should i? but why would i?

 

[Randip Singh]

Why any one have to do nasha of any kind?

I am jatt too and I also use to drink at get together. I also made my own daru in UK at home. IT has been more then 40 years since I touched whisky meat egg fish,

In my understanding I maybe wrong on this. Most people drink to feel confident. Once one know himself he/she don’t need any nasha to feel good. IT is all with in one just have to look inward. Why I am doing what I am doing?

There is pear pressure by the society. One who is strong will not be swayed by any one.We are all depended on many thing some on nasha,meat,coffee, tea, so on and on. We are hooked on taste and nasha. That mean we who are doing these nashas are slave of those thing. I say become free do not be slave of any thing or any one.

Why are you associating meat with alcohol? SRM does not forbid Sikhs from eating meat?

Where is the Nasha in meat? Are you saying that vegetarian food tastes bad and tasteless? You never eat Halwa? Ladoo? Rass Malaee? Kheer?

Your comments are illogical.