Creator /God ਦਾਤਾ/ਰੱਬ In Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Is Masculine Or Feminine And What Is The Significa

[Ambarsaria]

ਓਅੰ ਸਾਧ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਨਮਸਕਾਰੰ ॥

ओअं साध सतिगुर नमसकारं ॥

O▫aʼn sāḏẖ saṯgur namaskāraʼn.

ONG: I humbly bow in reverence to the One Universal Creator, to the Holy True Guru.

ਮੈਂ ਇਕ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਅਤੇ ਸੰਤ ਸਰੂਪ ਸੱਚੇ ਗੁਰਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਬੰਦਨਾ ਕਰਦਾ ਹਾਂ!

ਓਅੰ = ਹਿੰਦੀ ਦੀ ਵਰਨਮਾਲਾ ਦਾ ਪਹਿਲਾ ਅੱਖਰ।

ਸਾਡੀ ਉਸ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ਨੂੰ ਨਮਸਕਾਰ ਹੈ ਜੋ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਗੁਰੂ-ਰੂਪ ਧਾਰਦਾ ਹੈ,

http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=250&g=1&h=1&r=1&t=1&p=1&k=1

Prakash.s.bagga ji as in your post referenced below,

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/gurmat-vichaar/37654-creator-god-Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji-masculine-feminine-what-4.html#post157128

Where a Hindi sounding word or actual Hindi word was expressed it was so written equivalently in Punjabi phonetics.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Re: Creator /God ਦਾਤਾ/ਰੱਬ in SGGS is Masculine or Feminine and what is the significance?

Parkash Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

Pardon my ignorance but I still can not grasp your grammatical explanation but that is irrelevant at this point. Perhaps with time, I may be able to.

But my only question is how Ongkaar- The Source of all there is can be in plural form as there is only One Source?

Would appreciate, if you clarified it.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

Re: Creator /God ਦਾਤਾ/ਰੱਬ in SGGS is Masculine or Feminine and what is the significance?

AMBARSARIA Ji,

If I consider your views then the word EK is not a word in Gurmukhi.
But I find IK and EK both words are there in Gurbani.However it would be interesting to understand the difference in the meanings of the words IK and EK.
There are several quotes in Gurbani with the word EK.
Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[ravneet_sb]

Re: Creator /God ਦਾਤਾ/ਰੱਬ in SGGS is Masculine or Feminine and what is the significance?

Sat Sri Akaal,

Ek : For all the changes, the primal energy source is one which has never change
its state. The (GURU's BANI) experience is beyond the creation of sun, which happens to cause of universe

O▫aʼn And then

atoms which exist in three states of matter, (solid,liquid and gasses)

the change in states of matter, has been cause of life on earth

Imagine temperatures below zero everywhere or very high temperature
where the life frequency stands

In winters all fly dies or hides
and
again appear in spring

Grammar or Pronunciation not so clear, as the words are formed to
connect us with nature,

Union of Shiv and Shakti ,

how conciousness of words connects us with truth of nature.

Its not on grammer or phonetics as subjective topic

but

Objective of usage.

Every one and each word has appeared with objective and subjective

Basic alphabets are 34, from which whole vedas are formed
Basic elements are few, which forms life and support system

It is connecting to the basic, root or origins to dispell "EGO"


Understanding of this "I" stand no where and dispels "EGO"

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

Re: Creator /God ਦਾਤਾ/ਰੱਬ in SGGS is Masculine or Feminine and what is the significance?

TEJWANT SINGH Ji,
Well,There is an accepted Rule for Noun words to be SINGULAR or PLURAL according to Matra of AUKAD.The rule is that any Noun word with a matra of AUKAD under its last letter is considered SINGULAR common Noun and the word without matra of AUKAD under its last letter is PLURAL (Both for Masculine Gender )
If we apply this rule then the word OngKaar without matra of AUKAD underR is PLURAL(Masculine).The word as SINGULAR(Masculine) is written as ONGKaaR(u) with a matra of AUKAD under its letter R.(This as SINGULAR is given in the heading of Baanee Dakhanee OngKaaRu)
If you feel that the Rule of Gurbani grammer is wrong then I may be wrong.
Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[Ambarsaria]

AMBARSARIA Ji,

If I consider your views then the word EK is not a word in Gurmukhi.
But I find IK and EK both words are there in Gurbani.However it would be interesting to understand the difference in the meanings of the words IK and EK.
There are several quotes in Gurbani with the word EK.
Prakash.S.Bagga

Prakash.s.bagga veer ji I did state about the word Ek as follows,

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/gurmat-vichaar/37654-creator-god-Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji-masculine-feminine-what-4.html#post157146

੧ ----> ਇੱਕ and it is not Ek or ਏਕ which is Devanagari/Hindi

Of course Ek or ਏਕ is a word in Punjabi with the meaning (One of or from one).

੧ is unambiguously a number 1.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[BhagatSingh]

Re: Creator /God ਦਾਤਾ/ਰੱਬ in SGGS is Masculine or Feminine and what is the significance?

Tejwant ji and Prakash ji,
I was contemplating this. I think that the plural masculine word, Oankar, describes the source. As source is only a source if it gives rise to multiplicity. Without creating many how can there be one source? The one appears as many.

So it does not matter whether the word is plural or singular, as both would represent source equally well.

I don't think Oan has a masculine, feminine, singular, plural attached to it since it's not even a word or a noun for that matter.

Ambarsaria ji,
I cannot see fonts you have in your posts and on that Ikoankar thread. Which fonts are you using?

 

[Ambarsaria]

Ambarsaria ji,
I cannot see fonts you have in your posts and on that Ikoankar thread. Which fonts are you using?

Bhagat Singh veer in the above post I checked in Word and these appears to be Raavi. I wish there was some standard to use. My Word seems to pick up from the source I cut and paste from.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Re: Creator /God ਦਾਤਾ/ਰੱਬ in SGGS is Masculine or Feminine and what is the significance?

Parkash Singh ji & Bhagat Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

You are right in the metaphorical sense but here we are talking about the grammar used in SGGS, our only Guru. To me, grammatically it makes no sense that The Source can be used in a plural or gender form with sihari, bihari, Aunkard and other lagah matras. In my understanding they are used as gender pronouns like teri and tera etc. etc. or as prepositions.

I would like to be educated deeply in this matter but one fact remains in SGGS as far as grammar is concerned and that is, The Source is only ONE. There is no other/s.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[Ambarsaria]

ravneet_sb ji some comments in blue,

its state. The (GURU's BANI) experience is beyond the creation of sun, which happens to cause of universe
False, Sun got little to do with the Universe even if to be recognized as smallest of stars

In winters all fly dies or hides

False
In winter, most of them survive in the larval or the pupal stage in some protected, warm location.


Basic alphabets are 34, from which whole vedas are formed
What Vedas got to do with Sikhism Gurmat Vichaar as Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji is self sufficient

I know there is no harm in gaining knowledge from everywhere but you are unnecessarily glorifying vedas which actually are significantly discarded in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. It could be separate topic but due to negative aspects perhaps not worth spending much time on.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

Re: Creator /God ਦਾਤਾ/ਰੱਬ in SGGS is Masculine or Feminine and what is the significance?

BHAGAT SINGHJi,

I do agree to your point that Singular or Plural Both represent the one Source equally well But with a difference. The difference is related to the form of One Source for Singular or Plural.
When the Source is being refered as SIngular (Masculine) it is FORMLESS but when the Same Source is refered as PLURAL(Masculine) ,that One Source represents some Deifinite FORM (as A Tarang or Wave)
I think this should be an important aspect of understanding the reference meanings of different Noun words.
Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

Re: Creator /God ਦਾਤਾ/ਰੱਬ in SGGS is Masculine or Feminine and what is the significance?

TEJWANT SINGH Ji,
I definitely differ in your views about the application of grammer in Gurbani.
Any way I have checked every Ang of SGGS ji I have not come across the pronunciation of Oankaar as IK Oankaar but there is clear cut message in Baanee Sukhmani wherein it is EKANKAAR being refered as IKu EKANKAAR.(Astapadee 10)
So what can be correct according to Gurbani this can be looked into.

Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[Ambarsaria]

prakash.s.bagga ji thanks for your help and inputs and dialog, I am personally clarifying or learning a quite a bit.

When the Source is being refered as SIngular (Masculine) it is FORMLESS but when the Same Source is refered as PLURAL(Masculine) ,that One Source represents some Deifinite FORM (as A Tarang or Wave)

From the above, I have question regarding the Tarang or Wave if you see it within the definition or meaning of ੴ as I don't.

I do know there are references in analogy or metaphor fashion to such in SGGS.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[BhagatSingh]

Re: Creator /God ਦਾਤਾ/ਰੱਬ in SGGS is Masculine or Feminine and what is the significance?

ਮਾਝ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥
माझ महला ५ ॥
Mājẖ mėhlā 5.
Maajh, Fifth Mehl:

ਸਭ ਕਿਛੁ ਘਰ ਮਹਿ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਨਾਹੀ ॥
सभ किछु घर महि बाहरि नाही ॥
Sabẖ kicẖẖ gẖar mėh bāhar nāhī.
Everything is within the home of the self; there is nothing beyond.

ਬਾਹਰਿ ਟੋਲੈ ਸੋ ਭਰਮਿ ਭੁਲਾਹੀ ॥
बाहरि टोलै सो भरमि भुलाही ॥
Bāhar tolai so bẖaram bẖulāhī.
One who searches outside is deluded by doubt.

ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਜਿਨੀ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਪਾਇਆ ਸੋ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਸੁਹੇਲਾ ਜੀਉ ॥੧॥
गुर परसादी जिनी अंतरि पाइआ सो अंतरि बाहरि सुहेला जीउ ॥१॥
Gur parsādī jinī anṯar pā▫i▫ā so anṯar bāhar suhelā jī▫o. ||1||
By Guru's Grace, one who has found the Lord within is happy, inwardly and outwardly. ||1||

ਝਿਮਿ ਝਿਮਿ ਵਰਸੈ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਧਾਰਾ ॥
झिमि झिमि वरसै अम्रित धारा ॥
Jẖim jẖim varsai amriṯ ḏẖārā.
Slowly, gently, drop by drop, the stream of nectar trickles down within.

ਮਨੁ ਪੀਵੈ ਸੁਨਿ ਸਬਦੁ ਬੀਚਾਰਾ ॥
मनु पीवै सुनि सबदु बीचारा ॥
Man pīvai sun sabaḏ bīcẖārā.
The mind drinks it in, hearing and reflecting on the Word of the Shabad.

ਅਨਦ ਬਿਨੋਦ ਕਰੇ ਦਿਨ ਰਾਤੀ ਸਦਾ ਸਦਾ ਹਰਿ ਕੇਲਾ ਜੀਉ ॥੨॥
अनद बिनोद करे दिन राती सदा सदा हरि केला जीउ ॥२॥
Anaḏ binoḏ kare ḏin rāṯī saḏā saḏā har kelā jī▫o. ||2||
It enjoys bliss and ecstasy day and night, and plays with the Lord forever and ever. ||2||

ਜਨਮ ਜਨਮ ਕਾ ਵਿਛੁੜਿਆ ਮਿਲਿਆ ॥
जनम जनम का विछुड़िआ मिलिआ ॥
Janam janam kā vicẖẖuṛi▫ā mili▫ā.
I have now been united with the Lord after having been separated and cut off from Him for so many lifetimes;

ਸਾਧ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਤੇ ਸੂਕਾ ਹਰਿਆ ॥
साध क्रिपा ते सूका हरिआ ॥
Sāḏẖ kirpā ṯe sūkā hari▫ā.
by the Grace of the Holy Saint, the dried-up branches have blossomed forth again in their greenery.

ਸੁਮਤਿ ਪਾਏ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਏ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਹੋਏ ਮੇਲਾ ਜੀਉ ॥੩॥
सुमति पाए नामु धिआए गुरमुखि होए मेला जीउ ॥३॥
Sumaṯ pā▫e nām ḏẖi▫ā▫e gurmukẖ ho▫e melā jī▫o. ||3||
I have obtained this sublime understanding, and I meditate on the Naam; as Gurmukh, I have met the Lord. ||3||

ਜਲ ਤਰੰਗੁ ਜਿਉ ਜਲਹਿ ਸਮਾਇਆ ॥
जल तरंगु जिउ जलहि समाइआ ॥
Jal ṯarang ji▫o jalėh samā▫i▫ā.
As the waves of water merge again with the water,

ਤਿਉ ਜੋਤੀ ਸੰਗਿ ਜੋਤਿ ਮਿਲਾਇਆ ॥
तिउ जोती संगि जोति मिलाइआ ॥
Ŧi▫o joṯī sang joṯ milā▫i▫ā.
so does my light merge again into the Light.

ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਭ੍ਰਮ ਕਟੇ ਕਿਵਾੜਾ ਬਹੁੜਿ ਨ ਹੋਈਐ ਜਉਲਾ ਜੀਉ ॥੪॥੧੯॥੨੬॥
कहु नानक भ्रम कटे किवाड़ा बहुड़ि न होईऐ जउला जीउ ॥४॥१९॥२६॥
Kaho Nānak bẖaram kate kivāṛā bahuṛ na ho▫ī▫ai ja▫ulā jī▫o. ||4||19||26||
Says Guru Nanak, the veil of illusion has been cut away, and I shall not go out wandering any more. ||4||19||26||

Guru Granth Sahib Page 102

Ambarsaria ji,
The idea is that all forms arise in and from formless like waves of the water arising from water. This will ring true if you take some time and meditate on it and allow the insight to come from a still mind.

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

Re: Creator /God ਦਾਤਾ/ਰੱਬ in SGGS is Masculine or Feminine and what is the significance?

AMBARSARIA Ji,

Let us know what is Source of Pronunciation of the SYMBOL as Ik Oankaar.
I am fully open to accept if this is proved from Gurbani that Ik Oankaar is the actual and correct pronunciation of the SYMBOL.
Let us be very sincere in knowing this as this is the starting point of SGGS .

Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[Ambarsaria]

Re: Creator /God ਦਾਤਾ/ਰੱਬ in SGGS is Masculine or Feminine and what is the significance?

Veer Bhagat Singh ji I understand that but I don't want to have any waves in ੴ or as I understand it. If we don't understand the first number and the first Sanskrit word combo, we are in deep trouble peacesign

I repeat my understanding of mool mantar below now that I got the key people looking at things,

ੴ ਸਤਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਕਰਤਾ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਨਿਰਭਉ ਨਿਰਵੈਰੁ ਅਕਾਲ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਅਜੂਨੀ ਸੈਭੰ ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥

ArQ:- Akwl purK ie`k hY, ijs dw nwm 'hoNd vwlw' hY jo isRStI dw rcnhwr hY, jo sB ivc ivAwpk hY, BY qoN rihq hY, vYr-rihq hY, ijs dw srUp kwl qoN pry hY, (Bwv, ijs dw srIr nws-rihq hY), jo jUnW ivc nhIN AwauNdw, ijs dw pRkwS Awpxy Awp qoN hoieAw hY Aqy jo siqgurU dI ikrpw nwl imldw hY[

God/creator is one and is known as the eternal being, is the creator of all, present everywhere, without fear, without animosity, is timeless, is not guided by life cycles, is a self creation and is realized through its own (God/creator) blessing.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[ravneet_sb]

Sat Sri Akaal,
Ambarsaria Ji,

What is written as subject matter,
focus was on objective.

Each word to be spelled has objective


Ved refrence was taken from "GURU's BANI" itself.






bayd puraan simrit sabh khojay kahoo na oobarnaa. 477-2

I have searched all the Vedas, Puraanas and Simritees, but none of these can save anyone.
That ellaborate study is not required as already been done by "Guru's"



bayd katayb simrit sabh saasat inH parhi-aa mukat na ho-ee. 747-18

One may read all the books of the Vedas, the Bible, the Simritees and the Shaastras, but they will not bring liberation.



bayd paath sansaar kee kaar. 791-3

Reading the Vedas is the world's occupation;
Reading religious/ sacred books has come as occupation

Its all same, some original, some advanced.


vaydaa meh naam utam so suneh naahee fireh ji-o baytaali-aa. 919-14

In the Vedas, the ultimate objective is the Naam, the Name of the Lord; but they do not hear this, and they wander around like demons.
Concise and preise bout vedas which one gets after reading whole vedas


bayd baad sabh aakh vakaaneh. 1050-3

He voices all the controversies of the Vedas,


Earlier people were occupied vedas as sikhs are occupied on discussios of
"GURU's BANI" literature as subjective discussion.
Purpose is peace and happiness for which

"Naam Jap" and "Simran" is the right way as prescribed in "GURU's BANI"



Please reject thoughts if wrote inappropriate

Bhul Chuk Maaf

Whaeguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

 

[Ambarsaria]

AMBARSARIA Ji,

Let us know what is Source of Pronunciation of the SYMBOL as Ik Oankaar.
I am fully open to accept if this is proved from Gurbani that Ik Oankaar is the actual and correct pronunciation of the SYMBOL.
Let us be very sincere in knowing this as this is the starting point of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji .

Prakash.S.Bagga

Prakash.s.bagga ji my source is Prof. Sahib Singh ji I have quoted in this thread. Other than that it is what I learnt over the last as many years as I have lived mostly in Amritsar, UK, and Canada and through my parents.

My father was a Principal at Khalsa College Higher Secondary School Amritsar and my mother had completed Gyani level education. My father was a Granthi after his retirement in India at the Shepherds Bush Gurdwara in UK where he looked after his grandson after the passing of my elder brother in UK.

I have nothing to gain out of this other than correct understanding if I can.

Sat Sri Akal. mundahug

 

[BhagatSingh]

Ambarsaria ji,
True knowledge of Oan comes from meditation and Divine Grace.

Have a look at this wikipedia entry.

The Katha Upanishad has:

"The goal, which all Vedas declare, which all austerities aim at, and which humans desire when they live a life of conscience, I will tell you briefly it is aum"
"The one syllable [evākṣara, viz. aum] is indeed Brahman. This one syllable is the highest. Whosoever knows this one syllable obtains all that he desires.
"This is the best support; this is the highest support. Whosoever knows this support is adored in the world of Brahma." (1.2.15-17)[5]

The Chāndogya Upanishad (1.1.1-1) states:

om ity-etad akṣaram udgītham upāsīta / aum iti hy udgāyati / tasyopavyākhyānam
"The udgi:tā ["the chanting", that is, the syllable om] is the best of all essences, the highest, deserving the highest place, the eighth."

The Bhagavad Gi:tā (8.13) states that:

Uttering the monosyllable Aum, the eternal world of Brahman, One who departs leaving the body (at death), he attains the Supereme Goal (i.e., he reaches God).

In Bhagavad Gi:tā (9.17): Lord Krishna says to Arjuna - "I am the father of this universe, the mother, the support and the grandsire. I am the object of knowledge, the purifier and the syllable Oḿ. I am also the Ṛig, the Sāma and the Yajur Vedas."

The Bhagvad Gi:tā (17.23) has:

om tatsatiti nirdesho brahmanstrividhah samratah
"OM, tat and sat has been declared as the triple appellation of Brahman, who is Truth, Consciousness and Bliss."

In the following sūtra it emphasizes, "The repetition of Om should be made with an understanding of its meaning".[6]

In the book Om Chanting and Meditation Amit Ray states:

Om is not just a sound or vibration. It is not just a symbol. It is the entire cosmos, whatever we can see, touch, hear and feel. Moreover, it is all that is within our perception and all that is beyond our perception. It is the core of our very existence. If you think of Om only as a sound, a technique or a symbol of the Divine, you will miss it altogether. ..... Om is the mysterious cosmic energy that is the substratum of all the things and all the beings of the entire universe. It is an eternal song of the Divine. It is continuously resounding in silence on the background of everything that exists. [7]

Brahman is not the caste from the caste system, it is ਬ੍ਰਹਮ http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਬ੍ਰਹਮ

 

[Ambarsaria]

Sat Sri Akaal,
Ambarsaria Ji,

bayd katayb simrit sabh saasat inH parhi-aa mukat na ho-ee. 747-18

One may read all the books of the Vedas, the Bible, the Simritees and the Shaastras, but they will not bring liberation.

"Naam Jap" and "Simran" is the right way as prescribed in "GURU's BANI"

ravneet_sb ji one liner quotes are really an abuse as you tell people to read the whole shabad themselves. That is the bulk of the work and part of any sincere contribution. I searched vedas at srigranth.org and there are 255 references in SGGS. What is the point if I list those 255 entries?

On the one hand you questioned Dr. Sant Singh Khalsa ji's transalation and now you are using a possible error by him (Bible) to prove something. It is pretty counter-productive from my perspective and at least for my learning, perhaps others gain something.

Sat Sri Akal.