Spiritual Daily Amrit Vela Blog - Difficulties, Joys, Methods Of This Practical Journey To Self Discovery

[Luckysingh]

It's gonna be full house here again
Abyaas forever!

You made some good observations that will nurture growth -

Observation 1 - A changing person, not the same as yesterday.

It is powerful to recognize this... not even day-by-day but moment-by-moment, due to the fact that we are constantly in flux, transient. Thoughts and feelings arise and disappear in a moments.

So ramping up this type of observation and watching the person in constant change is of great value, as it provides insights into the person's struggles, challenges and maximizes learning.

Excellent man. You stated a major fundamental about "life" and "existence"
I'm just going to add something that you already know but we don't often acknowledge or awaken to..and that is the illusion...the maya, the 5 elements, the 5 tat.

Everything made of the 5 tat is in constant change,..moment to moment as you said. This is what our mind perceives as the 'reality'.

But if the 5 tat maya is the reality, then what is realization?
Funny, because "realization" is actually realising the reality which is perceived by our mind is not the reality and not the truth.
WHY?
because the Truth is aad jugaad,hai bhi, hosi,,,,, He always was, always is and will always remain "as is" Truth does not change, He is not in constant variation or shift. He stays as he always was and always will be

Kabir ji says...

ਨਾ ਓਹੁ ਬਢੈ ਨ ਘਟਤਾ ਜਾਇ ॥
Nā oh badẖai na gẖatṯā jā▫e.
God does not increase or decrease.

ਅਕੁਲ ਨਿਰੰਜਨ ਏਕੈ ਭਾਇ ॥੩॥
Akul niranjan ekai bẖā▫e. ||3||
He is unknowable and immaculate; He does not change. ||3||

Why does the MInd perceive the reality as the changing maya that is made of 5 tat?
Because the Mind itself is made of 5 tat! (non-spiritualists won't get what man tu jyot saroop hai really means)

Gurbani confirms what I'm saying-

ਇਹੁ ਮਨੁ ਪੰਚ ਤਤੁ ਤੇ ਜਨਮਾ ॥
Ih man pancẖ ṯaṯ ṯe janmā.
This mind is born of the five elements.

The unchanging "truth" our almighty lord Waheguru, is NOT made of 5 elements. Gurbani also tells us-

ਰੂਪੁ ਨ ਰੇਖ ਨ ਪੰਚ ਤਤ ਠਾਕੁਰ ਅਬਿਨਾਸ ॥੨॥
Rūp na rekẖ na pancẖ ṯaṯ ṯẖākur abinās. ||2||
He has no form or outline, and He is not made of the five elements; our Lord and Master is imperishable. ||2||

Beloved Kabirji confirms.the mind is in constant change and living off the 5 elements in maya-

ਇਹੁ ਮਨੁ ਪੰਚ ਤਤ ਕੋ ਜੀਉ ॥
Ih man pancẖ ṯaṯ ko jī▫o.
This mind is the life of the five elements

We are changing and everything in the universe, under the influence of 5 tats, is also changing., But behind all of this somewhere is the unchanging "ultimate reality".... the True one, the all knower and the doer.

Q; How do we find this True one that knows all?
By lifting this veil of 5 tats that makes the mind and everything that it perceives.
This is where we have to try and "stop" or "still" the changing mind. To still is to move to this nothingness where there is no "I" (remember the "I'' is always changing) ...the "I" is the ego.
To become SELFLESS through realising the absence of real ego, is the practice of all paths.
Find the UNCHANGING reality, the True Reality, the True Jyot. Here there is no "I" that exists, there is no ego....this is what is called being selfless.

Kabir ji says-

ਜਹ ਕਛੁ ਅਹਾ ਤਹਾ ਕਿਛੁ ਨਾਹੀ ਪੰਚ ਤਤੁ ਤਹ ਨਾਹੀ ॥
Jah kacẖẖ ahā ṯahā kicẖẖ nāhī pancẖ ṯaṯ ṯah nāhī.
Where something existed, now there is nothing. The five elements are no longer there.


Every path or faith tells us to forget about Ego in order to "become more spiritual" or more 'Sikh" However, ordinary followers ignore this injunction because the task seems way too difficult. As a result, these followers identify with their physical bodies or with their thoughts or experiences and mistakenly take this "other" as their true self.

The 2nd reason that followers can't become selfless is because they do not know how to detach from the seductive pull of 5 tat maya. Gurbani tells us to detach and disassociate from maya, which actually stems to detaching from 5 tats that are not only in what we perceive around us, but also in what makes up our "running in 10 directions" mind. They don't understand the process of purifying, the japna to get away from the "forever changing" 5 tat maya to the non-changing stillness and truth. They become at loss when it comes to the task of spiritual cultivation. I say "cultivation" because Gurbani tuks about sowing and reaping seeds are not all about karams, (wont cross-reference here now to go off current discussion.) they are also about the spiritual practice efforts you make and the gurprasad grace that will follow. Gurprasad and grace doesn't come from 'above to --> down' if you've no efforts of going from 'down to-->above'


This brings me to another area of different discussion that also stems from the same 5 tat-changing-selves,...and that is "mukhti" or liberation. Mukhti is to be FREE from the 5 tat existence of change. Free from the changing and repeating cycles of birth and death. Liberated from the changing 5 element maya.

Japo Saas saas simro gobind,
saas saas to master that 1st element/tat of Air.
Q:Why Air first?
Air is the Guru of maya, since "pavan guru, pane pitaa, mata dharth...".

I better just stop here, because I will go on and on. I will have to get back to my simran

 

[Harry Haller]

,,Japjisahib Ji, you're both learned and a senior member of SPN, pls show respect to "nam simran". I must remind you of the right to respect and dignity of others in a democratic society. I'll request Admin Singh Ji to throw the rule book at you, for reference sake. Sikhs "do not" look down upon anyone, but rather, accommodate and understand everyone. Their mission is to strive for unity in diversity. Use of derogatory or profane language is contrary to Sikh belief n value, kindly show respect when visiting SIKH site, thank you !

When a person sits and recites words that are not understood, at a speed by which comprehension is impossible, and even tries to beat the record for the time taken to recite, what else could it be other than mumbling, I must remind YOU of the right to respect and dignity of others, there is nothing derogatory or profane about describing this as mumbling, it is simple fact, if you are trying to recite something as quick as possible, then it is mumbling, try and remember that your mission works both ways, not just your way, or should I start seeking legal address for freedom of speech before you start censoring everything you do not agree with?

regards

 

[BhagatSingh]

When a person sits and recites words that are not understood, at a speed by which comprehension is impossible, and even tries to beat the record for the time taken to recite, what else could it be other than mumbling

Is that what you think Original is doing?

 

[Harry Haller]

Is that what you think Original is doing?

your out of context, read the relevant full post in its entirety after which I would be delighted to answer any questions

 

[BhagatSingh]

your out of context, read the relevant full post in its entirety after which I would be delighted to answer any questions

Original demanded dignity and respect because @japjisahib04 likened his practice to mumbling.

So let's get this straight.

When a person sits and recites words that are not understood, at a speed by which comprehension is impossible, and even tries to beat the record for the time taken to recite, what else could it be other than mumbling

Is that what you think Original is doing?

 

[Harry Haller]

Original demanded dignity and respect because member-Japji likened his practice to mumbling.

So let's get this straight.


Is that what you think Original is doing?

Also directed at - @japjisahib04 - Do answer the question so we can be clear.

No one has accused Originalji of mumbling, however, mumbling does go on, and that is fact, why are you so scared of the mumbling? How about a bit of dignity and respect for SGGS, which was written to be read, and not mumbled?

However, we are still not clear, please point out where Japji sahib has accused Originalji of being a mumbler and I will happily assist you in this

 

[Harry Haller]

its interesting to note that the spiritual lobby are now derailing their own threads!

 

[BhagatSingh]

You didn't answer the question.

When a person sits and recites words that are not understood, at a speed by which comprehension is impossible, and even tries to beat the record for the time taken to recite, what else could it be other than mumbling

Is that what you think Original is doing?

And
Is that what you think members on this thread are doing?

 

[Harry Haller]

Is that what you think Original is doing?

well, if I did, I probably would have said, as it happens, I did not, are we going to apply this to every member of the spiritual lobby? we could be here some time if your trying to put words in my mouth?
I am not interested in what Originalji is doing, I am making the point that the SGGS is desecrated every day by those that mumble it rather than read it, do you not agree?

And
Is that what you think members on this thread are doing?

the proof lies in the pudding, what I think is irrelevant, this thread has been derailed, that is a fact, and it has been derailed because someone took offence to the word 'mumblin', not even in a specific context but in an absolute general context, shall we continue Bhagat Singhji? or do you wish to get back to the thread?

 

[BhagatSingh]

well, if I did, I probably would have said, as it happens, I did not,

So you are saying Original is not doing this below?

When a person sits and recites words that are not understood, at a speed by which comprehension is impossible, and even tries to beat the record for the time taken to recite, what else could it be other than mumbling

So is anyone else in this thread doing this?

 

[Harry Haller]

you do not seem to have much respect for this thread with your questions which are utterly pointless, do you think if you just keep regurgitating the same again and again, I am going to give in and throw my hands up?

I am not a moderator anymore, but if I were, I would be asking to get back to the thread, I know you are eager to show your camp how masterful and intelligent you are, but don't you think this conversation should be in private, or at least on another thread? that way you can keep an audience!

If I had time I would look for a comment that you had made and then constantly ask if you were referring to me, see that is not debate, its what children do in the playground, if you wish to debate then debate properly, not like a child

 

[BhagatSingh]

you do not seem to have much respect for this thread with your questions which are utterly pointless, do you think if you just keep regurgitating the same again and again, I am going to give in and throw my hands up?

I am not a moderator anymore, but if I were, I would be asking to get back to the thread, I know you are eager to show your camp how masterful and intelligent you are, but don't you think this conversation should be in private, or at least on another thread? that way you can keep an audience!

If I had time I would look for a comment that you had made and then constantly ask if you were referring to me, see that is not debate, its what children do in the playground, if you wish to debate then debate properly, not like a child

Your above post sounds like you are frustrated with me Harry. I don't wish to frustrate you or make you angry. I am simply asking for your clarification.

You know in any thread it is important to get clarification, otherwise we cannot have proper communication.

Since you know the context so well, you would know the @japjisahib04 was responding to Original's post about Naam Simran and likened it to "mumbling".

Then when you responded to it, with this -

When a person sits and recites words that are not understood, at a speed by which comprehension is impossible, and even tries to beat the record for the time taken to recite, what else could it be other than mumbling

I thought you were agreeing with @japjisahib04 that Original was "mumlbing" or was talking about doing so.

If you were a mod, you would still be subject to questions about clarifying your position which would not be considered derailing the thread. You do know that don't you?

 

[Harry Haller]

sorry old boy, your still debating as a child would, if you wish to clarify the obvious, it is possible maybe debate is beyond you?

as for agreeing with japjisahibji, kindly show me where he has accused Originalji personally of mumbling, once you have done that, we can move forward,

If you were a mod, you would still be subject to questions about clarifying your position which would not be considered derailing the thread, you do know that correct?

good, I will then be seeking clarification on every single point I do not understand in every spiritual and meditation thread!

 

[BhagatSingh]

sorry old boy, your still debating as a child would, if you wish to clarify the obvious, it is possible maybe debate is beyond you?

as for agreeing with japjisahibji, kindly show me where he has accused Originalji personally of mumbling, once you have done that, we can move forward,

Read the relevant posts on page 8. @japjisahib04 was responding to Original's post about Naam Simran and likened it to "mumbling".

good, I will then be seeking clarification on every single point I do not understand in every spiritual and meditation thread!

That's a good boy!

 

[Harry Haller]

Read the relevant posts on page 8. @japjisahib04 was responding to Original's post about Naam Simran and likened it to "mumbling".


That's a good boy!

oh dear, we have gone now from direct accusations to likening, do me a favour, don't ever consider a legal career

 

[BhagatSingh]

oh dear, we have gone now from direct accusations to likening, do me a favour, don't ever consider a legal career

Can you show me where I said it was a "direct accusation"?

 

[Harry Haller]

Is that what you think Original is doing?

Is that what you think Original is doing?

Is that what you think Original is doing?

So you are saying Original is not doing this below?

so what are you doing then?

 

[BhagatSingh]

so what are you doing then?

Schooling adult children who can't behave themselves.

 

[japjisahib04]

Allow me to put it through the shabad of bhagat kabir jee:

'ਕਹਿ ਕਬੀਰ ਨਿਰਧਨੁ ਹੈ ਸੋਈ ॥ ਜਾ ਕੇ ਹਿਰਦੈ ਨਾਮੁ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥੪॥੮॥ ਗੁਰ ਸੇਵਾ ਤੇ ਭਗਤਿ ਕਮਾਈ ॥ ਤਬ ਇਹ ਮਾਨਸ ਦੇਹੀ ਪਾਈ ॥ ਇਸ ਦੇਹੀ ਕਉ ਸਿਮਰਹਿ ਦੇਵ ॥ ਸੋ ਦੇਹੀ ਭਜੁ ਹਰਿ ਕੀ ਸੇਵ ॥੧॥' SGGS 1159

Gurbani tells us, ' ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਸੇਵਾ ਸਬਦੁ ਵੀਚਾਰੁ ॥ ਹਉਮੈ ਮਾਰੇ ਕਰਣੀ ਸਾਰੁ ॥੭॥. Now tell me can any animal or other juenes contemplates on sabd that they finally attained ਮਾਨਸ ਦੇਹੀ. Thus ਮਾਨਸ ਦੇਹੀ is elevated state of mind by pondering over sabd and practically living and not mumbling by sitting in trance.

Please note, it was a general quote and not pointed towards any one. In above pankti 'ਨਿਰਧਨੁ' stands for mumbler.

 

[BhagatSingh]

Allow me to put it through the shabad of bhagat kabir jee:

'ਕਹਿ ਕਬੀਰ ਨਿਰਧਨੁ ਹੈ ਸੋਈ ॥ ਜਾ ਕੇ ਹਿਰਦੈ ਨਾਮੁ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥੪॥੮॥ ਗੁਰ ਸੇਵਾ ਤੇ ਭਗਤਿ ਕਮਾਈ ॥ ਤਬ ਇਹ ਮਾਨਸ ਦੇਹੀ ਪਾਈ ॥ ਇਸ ਦੇਹੀ ਕਉ ਸਿਮਰਹਿ ਦੇਵ ॥ ਸੋ ਦੇਹੀ ਭਜੁ ਹਰਿ ਕੀ ਸੇਵ ॥੧॥' SGGS 1159

Gurbani tells us, ' ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਸੇਵਾ ਸਬਦੁ ਵੀਚਾਰੁ ॥ ਹਉਮੈ ਮਾਰੇ ਕਰਣੀ ਸਾਰੁ ॥੭॥. Now tell me can any animal or other juenes contemplates on sabd that they finally attained ਮਾਨਸ ਦੇਹੀ. Thus ਮਾਨਸ ਦੇਹੀ is elevated state of mind by pondering over sabd and practically living and not mumbling by sitting in trance.

Please note, it was a general quote and not pointed towards any one. In above pankti 'ਨਿਰਧਨੁ' stands for mumbler.

First of all - ਮਾਨਸ ਦੇਹੀ means ਮਾਨਸ - human, ਦੇਹ - body. Human body.

This is also evident if you keep reading the shabad.

Second of all, in this shabad, Kabir ji is urging the listener of the shabd to meditate until their body can not longer physically do so due to old age, death and disease.

Kabir ji believes that the purpose of the human body is to meditate. He believes that the benefit of the human body is to meditate. Only a human being can sit in trance and consciously attain states of spiritual perfection. This is the benefit the angels seek, when they take human birth.


ਕਹਿ ਕਬੀਰ ਨਿਰਧਨੁ ਹੈ ਸੋਈ ॥ ਜਾ ਕੇ ਹਿਰਦੈ ਨਾਮੁ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥੪॥੮॥
Those who do not recite the name of Hari in their hearts, are spiritually poor.

ਗੁਰ ਸੇਵਾ ਤੇ ਭਗਤਿ ਕਮਾਈ ॥
Through the Guru's service and teachings, meditation is learned and practiced.

ਤਬ ਇਹ ਮਾਨਸ ਦੇਹੀ ਪਾਈ ॥
Then this human body becomes successful.

ਇਸ ਦੇਹੀ ਕਉ ਸਿਮਰਹਿ ਦੇਵ ॥ ਸੋ ਦੇਹੀ ਭਜੁ ਹਰਿ ਕੀ ਸੇਵ ॥੧॥
Even the angels yearn for this human body. So orient your body towards meditating and servicing Hari.

ਭਜਹੁ ਗੋੁਬਿੰਦ ਭੂਲਿ ਮਤ ਜਾਹੁ ॥ ਮਾਨਸ ਜਨਮ ਕਾ ਏਹੀ ਲਾਹੁ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Do not forget to meditate on Hari. Because that's the only benefit of having a human body.

ਜਬ ਲਗੁ ਜਰਾ ਰੋਗੁ ਨਹੀ ਆਇਆ ॥ ਜਬ ਲਗੁ ਕਾਲਿ ਗ੍ਰਸੀ ਨਹੀ ਕਾਇਆ ॥
Until the body is afflicted by disabling severe diseases and disabling old age. Until the body is consumed by death.

ਜਬ ਲਗੁ ਬਿਕਲ ਭਈ ਨਹੀ ਬਾਨੀ ॥ ਭਜਿ ਲੇਹਿ ਰੇ ਮਨ ਸਾਰਿਗਪਾਨੀ ॥੨॥
Until you lose your voice (and can no longer recite his name). Until then, mediate on the wielder of the Sharanga Bow, that is Hari!

Mediate as much as you can until you can no longer do so.

ਅਬ ਨ ਭਜਸਿ ਭਜਸਿ ਕਬ ਭਾਈ ॥ ਆਵੈ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਭਜਿਆ ਜਾਈ ॥
If you don't meditate now then when will you? When your end comes, you won't be able to meditate.

Pg1159