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Dancing And Gurbani

(Read the main post first) Would you "dance" to kirtan? Explain.

  • Yes...

    Votes: 8 17.0%
  • No...

    Votes: 35 74.5%
  • I don't listen to kirtan...

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Not sure...

    Votes: 5 10.6%

  • Total voters
    47

pk70

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Re: Dancing In Tune With Gurbani

They may become fanatics! They may think it has mantras which if recited with PROTECt them. Many people think that!!
If you find this insulting then you really shouldn't because then you seem blinded by SGGS too, which would further provide the evidence.(quote bhagat singh ji)
Who are fanatics have no understanding of SGGS Ji. the vital quality of SGGS ji is that it appeals to universal equality and brotherhood, acting otherwise are not follower of SGGS ji.
Regarding evidence provinding, it is your call, now you have asked it, here it is, and let me make you aware of a fact so that it should not be further distorted, it is for those who consider Sree Guru Granth Sahib is their True Guru

ਜੋ ਨਿੰਦਾ ਕਰੇ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪੂਰੇ ਕੀ ਤਿਸੁ ਕਰਤਾ ਮਾਰ ਦਿਵਾਵੈ ਫੇਰਿ ਓਹ ਵੇਲਾ ਓਸੁ ਹਥਿ ਆਵੈ ਓਹੁ ਆਪਣਾ ਬੀਜਿਆ ਆਪੇ ਖਾਵੈ ਨਰਕਿ ਘੋਰਿ ਮੁਹਿ ਕਾਲੈ ਖੜਿਆ ਜਿਉ ਤਸਕਰੁ ਪਾਇ ਗਲਾਵੈ ਫਿਰਿ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਸਰਣੀ ਪਵੈ ਤਾ ਉਬਰੈ ਜਾ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਵੈ ਹਰਿ ਬਾਤਾ ਆਖਿ ਸੁਣਾਏ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਹਰਿ ਕਰਤੇ ਏਵੈ ਭਾਵੈ
Who slanders the perfect True Guru him the Creator destroys. That opportunity comes not his hand again. He Himself eats what he himself has sown. Putting a halter round his neck, he shall be taken to the terrible hell with blackened face, like a thief. When he again seeks, Satguru's protection and remembers Lord God's Name then is he saved. Nanak utters and announces the proceeding of God's court. So it pleases God the Creator.



WHY?

ਸਲੋਕ ਮਃ ਮਨ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਹਉਮੈ ਰੋਗੁ ਹੈ ਭ੍ਰਮਿ ਭੂਲੇ ਮਨਮੁਖ ਦੁਰਜਨਾ ਨਾਨਕ ਰੋਗੁ ਗਵਾਇ ਮਿਲਿ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਸਾਧੂ ਸਜਨਾ
Slok 4th Guru. In the mind of the evil perverse persons is the disease of pride, and they are gone astray in doubt. Nanak, by meeting the saintly Satguru, the friend, they get the disease eradicated.
 
Re: Dancing In Tune With Gurbani

When I hear Kirtan, I feel soothing effect that actually helps to still the mind, dancing cannot be done if the mind sets for stilling. Many time the head starts moving up and down while sitting and listening to Kirtan.

i dunno about that, i like the sufi dances, they sure look like they can still the mind...and personally i think they look cool.

YouTube - Whirling Dervishes in TURKEY - Sufi, Semazsen





YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

c h e e r s
 

BhagatSingh

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Apr 24, 2006
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Re: Dancing In Tune With Gurbani

i dunno about that, i like the sufi dances, they sure look like they can still the mind...and personally i think they look cool.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hb9-MC3-kxshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjSig4DxU_M&feature=relatedc h e e r s
Hey cool music. Is it religious or just plain music?
The dance in the first one is quite simple, which is what I pictured dancing to gurbani is.

Embedding was disabled on the second video. Antonia
 
Re: Dancing In Tune With Gurbani

Hey cool music. Is it religious or just plain music?
The dance in the first one is quite simple, which is what I pictured dancing to gurbani is.

It is religious. I dont know much about it, i think its called Rumi after a persian theologian/poet. The dance is done in parts of Turkey and has sufi-islamic origins...most likely done for some spiritual experience.

the rumi movement seems rather interesting, has a great universal message. found this:
Rumi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

i dont know much about it but i always enjoyed watching their spiritual dance/movements and their music whenever its on tv.

as for dancing to a shabad or to gurbani...or swaying to the ryhtym of gurbani...i dont know...ive never had the feeling to sway or dance.

some word of advice? (not that i think you need any from the likes of me), but, I think a person like you does not have to feel obligated to defend yourself against a loon attack...it works out best to ignore and let them foam at the mouth all they want. and the last thing you want to do is give out a location to some overtly-self motivated nutbag on the internet.

c h e e r s
 

spnadmin

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Re: Dancing In Tune With Gurbani

We have a Maya thread, so please divert all posts on Maya to thread name -
http://www.sikhism.us/gurmat-vichaar/23639-our-4-days-in-maya-2.html#post90957


Nam Jap ji,

Approximately 3 pages of off-topic comments have been moved to Leaders. I will take a look at the conversations about Maya and perhaps begin a new thread just for them. :rolleyes:

This is an all time-record for post-moving on SPN. Not a good day for satsang it appears to me. :roll:

Any continued discussions of life in Antarctica, meetings in Canada, or cowardice will be deleted without notice or warning. Any mod/leader who spots this will be motivated to take action. :advocate: Off topic comments will be moved out of the forum. :advocate: Discussions of Maya will be evaluated for their relevance to other threads. :idea:

Not my place to try to analyze what happened today -- maybe a sadesati - who knows? :confused:

FAIR WARNING
 

spnadmin

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Re: Dancing In Tune With Gurbani

I can show you two video clips which show people dancing to the tune of gurbani.
One blue belter sangat who do arti with a lamp-lit in a thaal and another a
namdhari mastana dance. I voted NO to dancing.

:D


I also voted NO to dancing. :cool:
 

spnadmin

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Re: Dancing In Tune With Gurbani

ctually quite interesting -- Whirling Dervishes emerged in Turkey. Their dance is a form of meditation.

Whirling Dervishes

mevlanaminyatur.jpg
Known to the west as Whirling Dervishes, the members of the Mevlevi Order (named for their founder Mevlana) from Konya lived in what we might call coisters or monasteries - what to them was a Mevlevihane. The one at Galata in Istanbul is a product of late Ottoman architecture, and quite elaborate in having a tomb, a large chamber for the ceremony of the whirling dance (Sema), a fountain from which water was charitably distributed to the public, a time keeper's room, cells for the dervishes, separate quarters for the Master, a section for women, a chamber of silence, a large ornate fountain for ablutions, and a laundry room.
The Mevlevi Order founded by Mevlana in Konya during the Seljuk period is made up first and foremost of tekke analogous to the monasteries of the West. The first of these tekkes is named for Mevlana and was considered as the originator of all the rest. One figure stands out in the early spread of the order: Divani Mehmet Celebi. The celebis or gentle ones who went out to break new ground and make converts saw themselves as disciples of this great master, and an astonishing number of tekkes were established during Divani Mehmet Celebi's lifetime and thanks to his efforts; in Aleppo, Egypt and Algeria, on the islands of Chios (Sakiz) and Mitilene, and of course on the Turkish mainland. The Galata Mevlevihane is among these latter.
The rituals of the Rumi's followers (Whirling Dervishes) are among the enduring as well as the most exquisite ceremonies of spirituality. The ritual whirling of the dervishes is an act of love and a drama of faith. It possesses a highly structured form within which the gentle turns become increasingly dynamic as the individual dervishes strive to achieve a state of trans. The music that accompanies the whirling from beginning to end ranges from somber to rhapsodical; its effect is intended to be mesmerizing. Chanting of poetry, rhythmic rotation, and incessant music create a synthesis which, according to the faithful, induces a feeling of soaring, of ecstasy, of mystical flight.


The Mevlevi sect belongs to the Sunni or orthodox mainstream of Islam. Its doctrine never developed a revolutionary strategy - and although it was occasionally criticized for its heretical ideas, it always enjoyed the respect of the officialdom.


Many later Ottoman Sultans, including Mehmed, the Conqueror of Istanbul, were enamored of Mevlevi ideals. The reformist Sultan Selim III was virtually a member. Suleyman, probably the greatest of the Sultans, held the Mevlevi dervishes in high esteem and their semahane (whirling hall) constructed for them as his imperial gift. The hall/mosque stands next to Rumi's mausoleum in Konya.


Besides Mevlevi dervishes, also Bektashi Order's dervishes were highly regarded by the sultans and other common people. The dances of Bektashi dervishes was called as Kirklar Sema dance, which didn't involve whirling like the Mevlana's.


The Whirling Dervishes played a vitally important part in the evolution of Ottoman high culture. From the 14th to the 20th century , their impact on classical poetry, calligraphy, and the visual arts was profound, while music was perhaps their greatest achievement. Since the dogmatists of Islam's orthodoxy opposed music as being harmful to the listener and detrimental to religious life, no sacred music or mosque music evolved except for the Mevlud, a poem in praise of the Prophet Muhammed, chanted on high occasions or as a requiem. Rumi and his followers integrated music into their rituals as an article of faith. In his verses, Rumi emphasized that music uplifts our spirit to realms above, and we hear the tunes of the Gates of Paradise. The meeting places of the dervishes, consequently, became academies of art, music, and dance. Today, the performances of The Whirling Dervishes includes twelve musicians (on traditional Turkish instruments) and 12 dancers. There is also a master of ceremony. A performance is broken into two parts with the introduction conducted by the master followed by 3 or 4 pieces of music. This is followed by a 4-part whirling ceremony.
The Ritual of Sema

dervisler.jpg
The fundamental condition of our existence is to revolve. There is no object, no being which does not revolve. The shared similarity between all created things is the revolution of the electrons, protons, and neutrons within the atoms that constitute their basic structure. From the smallest cell to the planets and the ****hest stars, everything takes part in this revolving. Thus, The Semazens, the ones who whirl, participate consciously in the shared revolution of all existence.


The Sema ceremony represents a spiritual journey; the seeker's turning toward God and truth, a maturing through love, the transformation of self as a way of union with God, and the return to life as the servant of all creation.


The Semazen (with a camel's-felt hat representing a tombstone and a wide white skirt symbolizing the death shroud), upon removing his black cloth, is spiritually born to Truth. The semazens stand with their arms crossed, ready to begin their turn. In their erect posture, they represent the number one, testifying to God's unity. Each rotation takes them past the sheikh, who stands on a red sheep skin. This is the place of Mevlana Celaleddin-i Rumi , and the sheikh is understood to be a channel for the divine grace. At the start of each of the four movements of the ceremony, the semazens bow to each other honoring the spirit within. As their arms unfold, the right hand opens to the skies in prayer, ready to receive God's beneficence. The left hand, upon which his gaze rests, is turned towards the earth in the gesture of bestowal.
Fix-footed, the semazen provides a point of contact with this Earth through which the divine blessings can flow. Turning from right to left, he embraces all creation as he chants the name of God within the heart. The Sema ritual consists of seven parts:

  1. It starts with the singing of the Nat-i-Serif, a eulogy to the Prophet Muhammed (peace be upon him), who represents love. Praising him is praising the truth of God that he and all the prophets before him brought.
  2. Then follows the call of the drum and the slap of glory, calling the semazens to awaken and Be. This begins the procession known as the Sultan Veled Walk. It is the salutation of one soul to another, acknowledged by bowing.
  3. Then begins the Sema ritual itself. It consists of four selams or salutes. The first selam is the birth of truth by way of knowledge. The second selam expresses the rapture of witnessing the splendor of creation. The third selam is the transformation of rapture into love; the sacrifice of mind and self to love. It represents complete submission and communion with God. The fourth selam is the semazen's coming to terms with his destiny and his return to his task in creation. In the fourth selam, the sheikh enters the circling dervishes, where he assumes the place of the sun in the center of the circling planets.
  4. The Sema end with a reading from the Qur'an. The sheikh and dervishes complete their time together with the greeting of peace and then depart, accompanied by joyous music of their departure.
One of the beauties of this seven-centuries-old ritual is the way that it unifies the three fundamental components of man's nature; mind, emotion, and spirit, combining them in a practice and a worship that seeks the purification of all three in the turning towards Divine Unity. But most significantly, the enrichment of this earth and the well-being of humanity as a whole.


Source is this site.

Whirling Dervishes - All About Turkey


Thanks for the wonderful YouTube videos :) This video gives some idea of the ceremonial purpose of the Ruma Ceremony. To give up the world. To be one with Him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWARMM8i6x8&NR=1

 

BhagatSingh

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Re: Dancing In Tune With Gurbani

One would think think that everyone will say no. But 5/11 people did not and they listen to kirtan.
 

spnadmin

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Re: Dancing In Tune With Gurbani

Kirtan - Meditation

YouTube - Gurbani Kirtan by Bhai Gurbachan Singh Ji Lali


ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥
bilaaval mehalaa 5 ||
Bilaaval, Fifth Mehl:

1 ਅਪਨੇ ਸੇਵਕ ਕਉ ਕਬਹੁ ਨ ਬਿਸਾਰਹੁ ॥
apanae saevak ko kabahu n bisaarahu ||
Never forget Your servant, O Lord.


ਉਰਿ ਲਾਗਹੁ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਮੇਰੇ ਪੂਰਬ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਬੀਚਾਰਹੁ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
our laagahu suaamee prabh maerae poorab preeth gobindh beechaarahu ||1|| rehaao ||
Hug me close in Your embrace, O God, my Lord and Master; consider my primal love for You, O Lord of the Universe. ||1||Pause||


ਪਤਿਤ ਪਾਵਨ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਬਿਰਦੁ ਤੁਮ੍ਹ੍ਹਾਰੋ ਹਮਰੇ ਦੋਖ ਰਿਦੈ ਮਤ ਧਾਰਹੁ ॥
pathith paavan prabh biradh thumhaaro hamarae dhokh ridhai math dhhaarahu ||
It is Your Natural Way, God, to purify sinners; please do not keep my errors in Your Heart.


ਜੀਵਨ ਪ੍ਰਾਨ ਹਰਿ ਧਨੁ ਸੁਖੁ ਤੁਮ ਹੀ ਹਉਮੈ ਪਟਲੁ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਕਰਿ ਜਾਰਹੁ ॥੧॥
jeevan praan har dhhan sukh thum hee houmai pattal kirapaa kar jaarahu ||1||
You are my life, my breath of life, O Lord, my wealth and peace; be merciful to me, and burn away the curtain of egotism. ||1||


ਜਲ ਬਿਹੂਨ ਮੀਨ ਕਤ ਜੀਵਨ ਦੂਧ ਬਿਨਾ ਰਹਨੁ ਕਤ ਬਾਰੋ ॥
jal bihoon meen kath jeevan dhoodhh binaa rehan kath baaro ||
Without water, how can the fish survive? Without milk, how can the baby survive?


ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਪਿਆਸ ਚਰਨ ਕਮਲਨ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਕੀ ਪੇਖਿ ਦਰਸੁ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਸੁਖ ਸਾਰੋ ॥੨॥੭॥੧੨੩॥
jan naanak piaas charan kamalanh kee paekh dharas suaamee sukh saaro ||2||7||123||
Servant Nanak thirsts for the Lord's Lotus Feet; gazing upon the Blessed Vision of his Lord and Master's Darshan, he finds the essence of peace. ||2||7||123||
 

spnadmin

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Re: Dancing In Tune With Gurbani

So Aad ji explain why you wouldn't dance to gurbani kirtan. :)


The dervishes are not really dancing, are they?



ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਭਗਤਿ ਜਾ ਆਪਿ ਕਰਾਏ ॥
guramukh bhagath jaa aap karaaeae ||
When the Lord inspires one to become Gurmukh, and perform devotional worship,


ਤਨੁ ਮਨੁ ਰਾਤਾ ਸਹਜਿ ਸੁਭਾਏ ॥
than man raathaa sehaj subhaaeae ||
then his body and mind are attuned to His Love with intuitive ease.


ਬਾਣੀ ਵਜੈ ਸਬਦਿ ਵਜਾਏ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਭਗਤਿ ਥਾਇ ਪਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੫॥
baanee vajai sabadh vajaaeae guramukh bhagath thhaae paavaniaa ||5||
The Word of His Bani vibrates, and the Word of His Shabad resounds, for the Gurmukh whose devotional worship is accepted. ||5||


Took out the part about Maya. I actually like to be perfectly still.

 

Astroboy

ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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Re: Dancing In Tune With Gurbani

Page 465, Line 14
ਨਚਣੁ ਕੁਦਣੁ ਮਨ ਕਾ ਚਾਉ ॥
नचणु कुदणु मन का चाउ ॥
Nacẖaṇ kuḏaṇ man kā cẖā▫o.
They dance and jump around on the urgings of their minds.
Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok


Another shabad which says NO to the urgings of the mind :-

Page 329, Line 2
ਮਨ ਮਾਰੇ ਬਿਨੁ ਭਗਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥੨॥
मन मारे बिनु भगति न होई ॥२॥
Man māre bin bẖagaṯ na ho▫ī. ||2||
Without killing the mind, devotional worship is not performed. ||2||
Devotee Kabir - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok
 

BhagatSingh

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Apr 24, 2006
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Re: Dancing In Tune With Gurbani

The dervishes are not really dancing, are they?
Well, ya they are.

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਭਗਤਿ ਜਾ ਆਪਿ ਕਰਾਏ ॥
guramukh bhagath jaa aap karaaeae ||
When the Lord inspires one to become Gurmukh, and perform devotional worship,


ਤਨੁ ਮਨੁ ਰਾਤਾ ਸਹਜਿ ਸੁਭਾਏ ॥
than man raathaa sehaj subhaaeae ||
then his body and mind are attuned to His Love with intuitive ease.


ਬਾਣੀ ਵਜੈ ਸਬਦਿ ਵਜਾਏ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਭਗਤਿ ਥਾਇ ਪਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੫॥
baanee vajai sabadh vajaaeae guramukh bhagath thhaae paavaniaa ||5||
The Word of His Bani vibrates, and the Word of His Shabad resounds, for the Gurmukh whose devotional worship is accepted. ||5||

I reckon this could be in the form of a dance as well.


Took out the part about Maya. I actually like to be perfectly still.

Smart move. So why do you like to be perfectly still? Any specific reasons?
I could look for reasons on why we should never sit perfectly still. For one, it reduces your blood circulation.
 

BhagatSingh

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Re: Dancing In Tune With Gurbani

oooh weird, my last post didn't show.
Anyway, Napjap ji I looked over your shabads and no there is no sign of dancing not being a way to obtain the lord.
I think those White Dervishes are living proof that God can be obtained either way.
 

BhagatSingh

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Re: Dancing In Tune With Gurbani

But Bhagat ji

Whirling in the dervish ceremony is not considered dancing.
Antonia ji, why not I ask?
And if you read my replies in the beginning I kept insisting that dancing here is not hardcore movement of the body, its moving with the kirtan, and since most kirtan is raag/raag-like, the movements will be slow and flowing (almost natural), could even be like those dervishes. Try putting on a shabad and watch the dervishes whirl at 0 volume... :rofl:


I am also picturing the Chinese what's is called, where they move around, and discipline themselves. .... what they show in martial arts movies... I totally forgot!!
 

Astroboy

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Re: Dancing In Tune With Gurbani

Bhagat Singh Ji,

It's a good thing you are doing.
You are researching Sri Guru Granth Sahib and may Guru Ji's blessings be always with you.
"Tav Charnan Mann Rehai Hamara, Apna Jaan Karo Pritpara."
 

spnadmin

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Re: Dancing In Tune With Gurbani

Antonia ji, why not I ask?
And if you read my replies in the beginning I kept insisting that dancing here is not hardcore movement of the body, its moving with the kirtan, and since most kirtan is raag/raag-like, the movements will be slow and flowing (almost natural), could even be like those dervishes. Try putting on a shabad and watch the dervishes whirl at 0 volume... :rofl:


I am also picturing the Chinese what's is called, where they move around, and discipline themselves. .... what they show in martial arts movies... I totally forgot!!

Bhagat ji

Then let's put the word dance in quotes as such "dance" because that is our word for it. Looking from the eyes of our cultural understanding they are "dancing" but they consider this meditating.

In the symbolism of the Sema ritual, the semazen's camel's hair hat (sikke) represents the tombstone of the ego; his wide, white skirt represents the ego's shroud. By removing his black cloak, he is spiritually reborn to the truth. At the beginning of the Sema, by holding his arms crosswise, the semazen appears to represent the number one, thus testifying to God's unity. While whirling, his arms are open: his right arm is directed to the sky, ready to receive God's beneficence; his left hand, upon which his eyes are fastened, is turned toward the earth. The semazen conveys God's spiritual gift to those who are witnessing the Sema. Revolving from right to left around the heart, the semazen embraces all humanity with love. The human being has been created with love in order to love. Mevlâna Jalâluddîn Rumi says, "All loves are a bridge to Divine love. Yet, those who have not had a taste of it do not know!" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sufi_whirling#cite_note-0

In Turkey the Sema ritual is actually outlawed by Sharia and by the Turkish constitution. Followers of Rumi have spent years in prison for discussing the religious tenets of the ceremony. In spite of all of this, the government will promote Sufi sema ceremonies in clubs and bazaars because of the tourist dollars that the dervishes attract. So as a concession to economics the whirling has been billed as "dancing" -- that makes it OK and keepers of Sharia look the other way. Remember the Sufi mystics who were martyred along side our Guru. For chanting the name of Allah, for believing in reincarnation, and for "dancing."

I have some deep misgivings about the thread title, Bhagat ji. Once I attended kirtan performed at a function where "we all are one" and people were dancing to gurbani kirtan. They were not as far as I could tell Sikhs. It was not a good experience for me to see that because it took gurbani kirtan down to the level of ... well I can't explain it.
 

BhagatSingh

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Re: Dancing In Tune With Gurbani

Bhagat ji

Then let's put the word dance in quotes as such "dance" because that is our word for it. Looking from the eyes of our cultural understanding they are "dancing" but they consider this meditating.

In the symbolism of the Sema ritual, the semazen's camel's hair hat (sikke) represents the tombstone of the ego; his wide, white skirt represents the ego's shroud. By removing his black cloak, he is spiritually reborn to the truth. At the beginning of the Sema, by holding his arms crosswise, the semazen appears to represent the number one, thus testifying to God's unity. While whirling, his arms are open: his right arm is directed to the sky, ready to receive God's beneficence; his left hand, upon which his eyes are fastened, is turned toward the earth. The semazen conveys God's spiritual gift to those who are witnessing the Sema. Revolving from right to left around the heart, the semazen embraces all humanity with love. The human being has been created with love in order to love. Mevlâna Jalâluddîn Rumi says, "All loves are a bridge to Divine love. Yet, those who have not had a taste of it do not know!"

In Turkey the Sema ritual is actually outlawed by Sharia and by the Turkish constitution. Followers of Rumi have spent years in prison for discussing the religious tenets of the ceremony. In spite of all of this, the government will promote Sufi sema ceremonies in clubs and bazaars because of the tourist dollars that the dervishes attract. So as a concession to economics the whirling has been billed as "dancing" -- that makes it OK and keepers of Sharia look the other way. Remember the Sufi mystics who were martyred along side our Guru. For chanting the name of Allah, for believing in reincarnation, and for "dancing."

I have some deep misgivings about the thread title, Bhagat ji. Once I attended kirtan performed at a function where "we all are one" and people were dancing to gurbani kirtan. They were not as far as I could tell Sikhs. It was not a good experience for me to see that because it took gurbani kirtan down to the level of ... well I can't explain it.
Well, Antonia ji, meditatin without feeling is just talking to yourself, similarly, "motion meditation" (I am coining a new term :D) without the feeling is just motion/dancing.
Thanks for the bit for background. :) I am simply amazed by the dervishes. They highlight my point SO darn well! That The Lord can be obtained by dancing or what I will now call "motion meditation".

I think you thought (that it lowered gurbani) because you might think of dancing as something inferior. But dancing is a form of self expression like singing. So if you can sing gurbani, I am sure you can dance it too with the same effect. Not to mention, you can draw gurbani and that would be considered very spiritual and meditative (but we will leave that to another thread). Again, I won't tell you what to feel. I just need some sort of sign that what I am saying right now, makes some sort of sense. At the end of the day, it really comes down to you.
Also, I would like to point out ...there are those who cannot dance, those who cannot talk, those who cannot think, those who cannot draw.... think about it... would God create only one form of meditation? Would Guru Nanak limit Sikhs to nam simran?
 
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