Do Sikhs Believe In Angels?

[namjiwankaur]

I'm sorry that I have naively offended Sikhism. I would never do it intentionally.

I didn't say that all religions are one. I say they all lead to the same destination because it is my belief that the Divine has spoken through thousands of messengers & also that people often take verses/ayats/words from sacred texts without knowing their meaning or context. I was trying to show I understood what you meant about the 44 results for angels in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji with examples from my own experience.

I hope you will explain how I was offensive because I don't want to offend anyone again like that.

I thought when you said, "let the fun begin" you were saying something light, so I responded with what I hoped you would see as a response to that.

I don't know what vichaar is to say anything about it. I googled it. I wanted to learn about it. I didn't mean to imply I had any relationship with it. I was hoping you would see I was lightheartedly asking you to be my friend on the spiritual path, even though we don't practice the same religion.

I am exploring Sikhism. I have loved the Daily Hukamnama for years. I try to make it part of my daily spiritual practice. I also find myself brought closer to God by Sikhism's teachings. It didn't turn out it was the path for me, but I am nourished by many parts of Sikhism. Universal Sufism turned out to be a better path for me. Right there, I show that I don't believe all relgions are the same, but there is only One Truth and God gave us many ways to find Truth.

No, I'm not an Ismaili Muslim. I'm not sure where you got that idea. My religion is self-surrender to the Beloved. To some that is complicated because I have beliefs that don't fit comfortably into many religions (ie - my relationship with the Divine Feminine would be rejected by most Muslims).

When you say "we are back at square one", I don't understand what you are referring to. I wasn't comparing Islam or Christianity to Sikhism. I was sharing my experiences with reading Quran, Bible, Bhagavad Gita, etc., literally. And to enter a word in a search box on BibleGateway or IslamAwakened can lead to similar misunderstandings.

Is it because I mentioned Islam? I wasnt saying SGGS is like Quran. I was saying that Quran and Bible can also lead to misinterpretation. I really was agreeing not disagreeing or trying to promote Islam.

I'm sorry if it was inappropriate to share those things in this post. I like being here. I've even paid twice to support SPN financially. What would you recommend I do at this point so I don't continue to offend everyone.

Please help me understand what I did that was cavalier. I didn't intend to be disrespectful. It is completely unintentional if I have done so. I feel awful about it.

Peace and all good to you and yours....

This is the only way I have to put you on notice. But we are back to square one. ALL RELIGIONS ARE NOT THE SAME! SIMPLE EQUATIONS SHOULD NOT BE DRAWN SCRIPTURE TO SCRIPTURE. VICHAAR BY AN INITIATE OF THE INTERNATIONAL SUFI ORDER WHO IS EXPLORING SIKHI AS AN ISMAILLI MUSLIM WILL ONLY BACKFIRE. You may have the best of intentions, sharing and what-not, the wisdom of other faiths. But much of what you have written above smacks of having a cavalier attitude toward the Sikh faith. I am therefore giving you a formal warning. Any further sharing that is disrespectful no matter how respectfully it may seem to be written or offered will be deleted without notice. :noticekudi:

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

read the views of prof barsaal on how to interpret gurbani of sri guru granth sahib ji using only sri guru granth sahib ji as the tool... Article is in punjabi at the bottom of the linked page of sikh spokesman.

http://www.sikhspokesman.com/

ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਵਿੱਚ ਦਰਜ ਸਮੁੱਚੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਇੱਕ (੧) ਦੇ ਫਲਸਫੇ ਨੂੰ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਸ਼ਿਤ ਕਰਦੀ ਹੋਣ ਕਾਰਣ ਅਰਥ ਵੀ ਇੱਕ(੧) ਦੇ ਫਲਸਫੇ ਤਹਿਤ ਹੀ ਕਰਨੇ ਬਣਦੇ ਹਨ ਪਰ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਦੇ ਵਿਆਖਿਆਕਾਰ ਅਕਸਰ ਅਰਥ ਕਰਨ ਵੇਲੇ ਭਿੰਨ ਭਿੰਨ ਵਿਚਾਰ-ਧਾਰਾਵਾਂ ਦੇ ਪਰਭਾਵ ਨਾਲ ਅਤੇ ਅਰਥਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਕਿਸੇ ਸ਼ਬਦ ਕੋਸ਼ ਦੀ ਨਿਰਭਰਤਾ ਨਾਲ ਭਿੰਨ ਭਿੰਨ ਅਰਥ ਕਰਦੇ ਦਿਖਾਈ ਦਿੰਦੇ ਹਨ। ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਦੇ ਕਾਵਿ ਰੂਪ ਵਿੱਚ ਹੋਣ ਕਾਰਣ ਪੜ੍ਹਨ ਵਾਲੇ ਦੀ ਕਾਵਿ ਨਿਯਮਾਂ ਤੋਂ ਅਣਜਾਣਤਾ ਅਤੇ ਨਿਜੀ ਸਮਝ ਹੀ ਆਪਦੇ ਅਨੁਕੂਲ ਅਰਥ ਤੈਅ ਕਰ ਜਾਂਦੀ ਹੈ। ਭਾਵੇਂ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਲਿਖਣ ਸਮੇ ਇਹ ਸਥਾਨਿਕ ਲੋਕਾਂ ਦੀ ਸਮਝ ਅਨੁਸਾਰੀ ਸੀ ਪਰ ਸਮੇ ਦੇ ਬਦਲਦਿਆਂ ਇਸ ਦੀ ਬੋਲੀ ਅਤੇ ਸ਼ਬਦਾਂ ਦਾ ਜਨ ਸਧਾਰਣ ਦੀ ਬੋਲੀ ਨਾਲੋਂ ਫਰਕ ਪੈ ਜਾਣਾ ਕੁਦਰਤੀ ਸੀ।
ਅਕਸਰ ਕਿਹਾ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਤਾਂ ਅਥਾਹ ਸਮੁੰਦਰ ਹੈ ਜੋ ਵੀ ਇਸ ਵਿੱਚ ਜਿਤਨੀ ਡੁੰਘਾਈ ਅਤੇ ਨਜ਼ਰੀਏ ਨਾਲ ਚੁੱਭੀ ਮਾਰਦਾ ਹੈ ਉਤਨੇ ਹੀ ਅਨਮੋਲ ਵਿਚਾਰਾਂ ਦੇ ਹੀਰੇ-ਮੋਤੀ ਕੱਢ ਲਿਆਉਂਦਾ ਹੈ। ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਵਿੱਚ ਕੋਈ ਕਹਾਣੀ ਜਾਂ ਜੀਵਨੀ ਨਹੀਂ ਸਗੋਂ ਗੁਰੂਆਂ ਭਗਤਾਂ ਦੇ ਸੈਕੜੇ ਸਾਲਾਂ ਵਿੱਚ ਜੀਵਨ ਨੂੰ ਕਰਤੇ ਨਾਲ ਇੱਕ ਕਰਕੇ ਕਮਾਏ ਨਿਯਮ ਅਤੇ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਦਾ ਸਦਾ ਸਥਿਰ ਰਹਿਣ ਵਾਲਾ ਫਲਸਫਾ ਹੈ। ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਦੇ ਸਿਧਾਂਤ ਸਦੀਵ ਕਾਲ ਤੱਕ ਸੱਚ ਰਹਿਣ ਵਾਲੇ ਹਨ ਜੋ ਕਦੇ ਵੀ ਬਦਲ ਨਹੀਂ ਸਕਦੇ ਇਸ ਤਰਾਂ ਇਹਨਾਂ ਦੀ ਵਿਆਖਿਆ ਵੀ ਸੱਚ ਅਤੇ ਇੱਕ ਹੈ ਅਤੇ ਸਦਾ ਲਈ ਸੱਚ ਅਤੇ ਇੱਕ ਹੀ ਰਹਿਣੀ ਚਾਹੀਦੀ ਹੈ। ਕਿਸੇ ਵੇਲੇ ਵੇਦਾਂ ਪੁਰਾਣਾ ਆਦਿ ਨੂੰ ਪੜਨ ਵਾਲਿਆਂ ਨੂੰ ਹੀ ਵਿਦਵਾਨ ਸਮਝਿਆ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੋਣ ਕਾਰਣ ਸੰਪਰਦਾਈ ਸੋਚ ਵਾਲੇ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਦੀ ਵਿਆਖਿਆ ਕਰਨ ਵੇਲੇ ਵੀ ਵੈਦਿਕ ਜਾਂ ਪੁਰਾਣਿਕ ਅਰਥ ਹੀ ਕਰਦੇ ਸਨ ਜੋ ਇੱਕ(੧) ਦੇ ਫਲਸਫੇ ਦੇ ਵਿਰੁੱਧ ਜਾ ਖੜਦੇ ਸਨ। ਅਜਿਹੀ ਸੋਚ ਦਾ ਕਰਤਾ ਸੈ ਭੰ(ਸਵੈ ਭੰ), ਅਜੂਨੀ ਅਤੇ ਕਿਰਤ ਵਿੱਚ ਪੂਰਿਆ/ਇੱਕ ਮਿੱਕ ਹੋਇਆ ਬ੍ਰਹਿਮੰਡ ਵਿੱਚ ਇਕਸਾਰ ਵਿਚਰਨ ਵਾਲਾ ਨਹੀਂ ਸੀ ਸਗੋਂ ਧਰਤੀ ਤੋਂ ਉੱਪਰ ਕਿਸੇ ਆਸਮਾਨ ਤੇ ਬੈਠਾ ਆਪਣੇ ਪੂਰੇ ਵਿਭਾਗ ਰਾਹੀਂ ਇਕੱਲੇ ਇਕੱਲੇ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਦੇ ਕਰੇ ਕਰਮਾਂ ਦਾ ਫੈਸਲਾ ਆਵਾਗਵਣ ਰਾਹੀਂ ਨਿਸ਼ਚਿਤ ਕਰਦਾ, ਇਕ ਬਾਦਸ਼ਾਹ ਵਾਂਗ ਸੀ ਜਿਸ ਨੂੰ ਵਿਚੋਲਿਆਂ ਦੀ ਮਦਦ ਨਾਲ ਪੂਜਾ ਅਰਚਨਾ ਰਾਹੀਂ ਖੁਸ਼ਾਮਦ ਕਰਕੇ ਫੈਸਲੇ ਬਦਲਵਾਏ ਅਤੇ ਸੰਸਾਰਿਕ ਲਾਭ ਲਏ ਜਾ ਸਕਦੇ ਸਨ। ਅਜਿਹੀ ਸੋਚ ਅਧੀਨ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਦੇ ਅਰਥ ਕਰਨ ਵਾਲੇ ਵੀ ਇਸੇ ਭਾਵਨਾ ਦੀ ਪੂਰਤੀ ਨੂੰ ਧਿਆਨ ਵਿੱਚ ਰੱਖਦੇ ਸਨ।
ਇਸ ਦੇ ਉਲਟ ਇੱਕ(੧) ਦਾ ਸਿਧਾਂਤ ਸਮੁੱਚੇ ਬ੍ਰਹਿਮੰਡ ਵਿੱਚ ਅਕਾਲਪੁਰਖ ਨੂੰ ਇਕ ਅਟੱਲ ਨਿਯਮ ਵਜੋਂ, ਜਨਮ ਮਰਨ ਰਹਿਤ, ਇਕਸਾਰ ਸ਼ਕਤੀ ਰੂਪ ਵਿੱਚ ਵਿਚਰਦਾ ਤੱਕਦਾ ਹੈ ਭਾਵੇਂ ਸਾਡੀ ਧਰਤੀ ਹੋਵੇ ਜਾਂ ਲੱਖਾਂ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਸ਼ ਸਾਲਾਂ ਦੂਰ ਕੋਈ ਹੋਰ ਧਰਤੀ ਹੋਵੇ। ਜਿਓਂ ਜਿਓਂ ਵਿਚਾਰ ਅਤੇ ਸੰਚਾਰ ਦੇ ਸਾਧਨ ਵਧੇ ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਦੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਦੀ ਵਿਚਾਰ ਦਾ ਪ੍ਰਵਾਹ ਤੇਜ ਹੋ ਗਿਆ। ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਦੇ ਅਰਥ ਕਿਸੇ ਨਿਸ਼ਚਿਤ ਵਿਆਖਿਆ ਪ੍ਰਣਾਲੀ ਤੋਂ ਬਾਹਰ ਆਕੇ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਵਿੱਚੋਂ ਹੀ ਪ੍ਰਗਟ ਹੋ ਰਹੇ ਅਰਥਾਂ ਨਾਲ ਹੀ ਹੋਣ ਲੱਗੇ। ਸਥਾਪਿਤ ਵਿਆਖਿਆ ਪ੍ਰਣਾਲੀਆਂ ਅਗਲੇਰੀ ਮੰਜਿਲ ਵੱਲ ਇਸ਼ਾਰਾ ਕਰਦੀਆਂ ਜਾਪੀਆਂ। ਕਿਸੇ ਵੇਲੇ ਗੁਰਸ਼ਬਦਾਂ ਦੇ ਕੇਵਲ ਸ਼ਾਬਦਿਕ ਅਰਥ ਹੀ ਕੀਤੇ ਜਾਂਦੇ ਸਨ। ਹੌਲੀ ਹੌਲੀ ਸ਼ਬਦ ਅਰਥਾਂ ਦੇ ਨਾਲ ਭਾਵ ਅਰਥ ਵੀ ਵਿਚਾਰਨੇ ਸ਼ੁਰੂ ਹੋਏ। ਕਿਸੇ ਵੇਲੇ ਗੁਰਸ਼ਬਦ ਵਿੱਚ ਆਈ ਹਰ ਸਤਰ ਨੂੰ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਦਾ ਫਲਸਫਾ ਸਮਝ ਲਿਆ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਸੀ ਜਿਸ ਨਾਲ ਕਈ ਵਾਰ ਅਨਮਤੀ ਵਿਚਾਰਧਾਰਾ ਵੀ ਗੁਰਸ਼ਬਦਾਂ ਨਾਲ ਸਹੀ ਸਾਬਿਤ ਕਰ ਦਿੱਤੀ ਜਾਂਦੀ ਸੀ। ਹੌਲੀ ਹੌਲੀ ਇਹ ਵੀ ਸਮਝ ਆਉਣ ਲੱਗਾ ਕਿ ਕਈ ਥਾਂਈਂ ਗੁਰ ਸ਼ਬਦ ਸਵਾਲ ਜਵਾਬ ਦੇ ਰੂਪ ਵਿੱਚ ਹਨ ਅਤੇ ਕਈ ਜਗਹ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਵਿਚਾਰਧਾਰਾ ਪ੍ਰਗਟਾਉਣ ਲਈ ਸਮਾਜ ਵਿੱਚ ਪ੍ਰਚਲਤ ਹੋਈਆਂ ਧਾਰਨਾਵਾਂ ਅਤੇ ਪ੍ਰਚਲਤ ਮੁਹਾਵਰੇ ਵੀ ਇਸ਼ਾਰੇ ਵਜੋਂ ਵਰਤੇ ਗਏ ਹਨ। ਕਈ ਜਗਹ ਅਨਮਤਾਂ ਦੀਆਂ ਸਮਾਜ ਵਿੱਚ ਪ੍ਰਚਲਤ ਹੋ ਚੁੱਕੀਆਂ ਧਾਰਨਾਵਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਹੂ-ਬਹੂ ਲਿਖਕੇ ਸ਼ਬਦ ਦੇ ਅਖੀਰ ਜਾਂ ਰਹਾਓ ਦੀ ਤੁਕ ਨਾਲ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਵਿਚਾਰਧਾਰਾ ਦੱਸੀ ਗਈ ਹੈ ਪਰ ਕਈ ਵਾਰ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਰਮਝਾਂ ਸਮਝਣ ਤੋਂ ਅਸਮਰੱਥ ਜਗਿਆਸੂ ਹਰ ਸਤਰ ਨੂੰ ਹੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਵਿੱਚ ਦਰਜ ਦਰਸਾ ਕੇ ਹਰ ਸਤਰ ਨੂੰ ਹੀ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਫਲਸਫਾ ਸਮਝ ਬੈਠਦੇ ਸਨ। ਸੋ ਇਸ ਤਰਾਂ ਬਾਬੇ ਨਾਨਕ ਦੀ ਨਿਆਰੀ ਇਨਕਲਾਬੀ ਵਿਚਾਰਧਾਰਾ ਵੈਦਿਕ ਐਨਕਾਂ ਨਾਲ ਪੜੀ ਜਾ ਰਹੀ ਸੀ। ਇਸ ਤਰਾਂ ਪ੍ਰਤੀਤ ਹੁੰਦਾ ਸੀ ਕਿ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਵਿੱਚ ਨਵਾਂ ਕੁਝ ਵੀ ਨਹੀਂ ਹੈ ਸਗੋਂ ਪਰਾਚੀਨ ਵੇਦਾਂ ਦਾ ਹੀ ਸਾਰ ਹੈ।
ਹੌਲੀ ਹੌਲੀ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਦਾ ਆਦਿ ਸੱਚ, ਜੁਗਾਦਿ ਸੱਚ ਵਾਲਾ ਸੰਕਲਪ ਜਗਿਆਸੂਆਂ ਦੇ ਮਨਾਂ ਵਿੱਚ ਪ੍ਰਗਟ ਹੋਣ ਲੱਗਾ। ਪ੍ਰਿਥਵੀ ਤੇ ਮੌਲਿਆ ਸਮੁੱਚਾ ਜੀਵ ਬਹੁਤ ਵੱਡੇ ਅਕਾਲਪੁਰਖ ਦੀ ਬਹੁਤ ਵੱਡੀ ਕਾਇਨਾਤ ਦਾ ਇਕ ਜ਼ੱਰਾ ਜਾਪਣ ਲੱਗਾ। ਬ੍ਰਹਿਮੰਡ ਦੇ ਅਟੱਲ ਨਿਯਮ ਅਕਾਲਪੁਰਖ ਦੇ ਹੁਕਮ ਭਾਸਣ ਲੱਗੇ। ਪੁਜਾਰੀਆਂ ਦੁਆਰਾ ਆਪਣੇ ਸਵਾਰਥ ਹਿੱਤ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਦੀ ਇੱਛਾ ਪੂਰਤੀ ਲਈ ਕੁਦਰਤ ਦੇ ਨਿਯਮਾਂ ਦੀ ਅਖਾਉਤੀ ਪੂਜਾ ਦਾ ਬਣਾਇਆ ਮੱਕੜ ਜਾਲ ਟੁੱਟਣ ਲੱਗਾ। ਗੁਰੂ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਦਾ ਇੱਕ ਜੋਤ ਅਤੇ ਸਾਂਝੀਵਾਲਤਾ ਦਾ ਅਰਥ ਸਮਝ ਆਉਣ ਲੱਗਾ। ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ ਦੀਆਂ ਸਿਖਿਆਵਾਂ ਕਿਸੇ ਅਨਮਤੀ ਆਵਾਗਵਣ ਰਾਹੀਂ ਨਰਕਾਂ ਦੇ ਡਰ ਜਾਂ ਸਵਰਗਾਂ ਦੇ ਲਾਲਚ ਨਾਲੋਂ ਜਿਓਂਦੇ ਜੀਅ ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ਦਾ ਵਿਸਮਾਦੀ ਮਾਰਗ ਜਾਪਣ ਲੱਗੀਆਂ। ਸ਼ਬਦ ਗੁਰੂ ਅਤੇ ਸੁਰਤ ਦਾ ਚੇਲਾ ਹੋ ਜਾਣ ਦੀ ਸਮਝ ਦੇਹ ਧਾਰੀ ਵਿਚੋਲਿਆਂ ਨੂੰ ਖਤਮ ਕਰਦੀ ਜਾਪੀ। ਕਿਸੇ ਕਰਮਕਾਂਢ ਰਾਹੀਂ ਰੱਬ ਨੂੰ ਰਿਝਾਕੇ ਖੁਸ਼ੀ ਦਾ ਭਰਮ ਪਾਲਣ ਨਾਲੋਂ, ਹਰ ਇਨਸਾਨ ਅੰਦਰ ਉਸੇ ਦੀ ਜੋਤ ਅਨੁਭਵ ਕਰ, ਸਭ ਉਸੇ ਦਾ ਪਸਾਰਾ ਜਾਣ, ਲੋੜਵੰਦਾ ਦੀ ਹਰ ਸੰਭਵ ਆਪਣੇ ਹੱਥਾਂ ਨਾਲ ਮਦਦ ਕਰਨੀ ਹੀ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨਾਲ ਇੱਕਮਿੱਕਤਾ ਦਾ ਲਖਾਇਕ ਜਾਪਣ ਲੱਗੀ। ਕਰਤੇ ਦੀ ਕੁਦਰਤ ਦੇ ਨਿਯਮਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਲੱਭ ਕੇ ਕਿਰਤ ਦੀ ਸੇਵਾ ਲਈ ਉਹਨਾਂ ਨਿਯਮਾਂ ਦੀ ਵਰਤੋਂ ਕਰਨ ਵਾਲੇ ਵਿਗਿਆਨੀ ਰੱਬ ਜੀ ਦੇ ਭਗਤ ਜਾਪਣ ਲੱਗੇ। ਕਰਤੇ ਦੀ ਕਿਰਤ ਦੀ ਸੱਚੀ ਸੇਵਾ ਹੀ ਕਰਤੇ ਦੀ ਅਸਲ ਭਗਤੀ ਮਹਿਸੂਸ ਹੋਣ ਲੱਗੀ।
ਗੁਰੂ ਬਾਬੇ ਦੀਆਂ ਸਿਖਿਆਵਾਂ ਹਰ ਤਰਾਂ ਦੇ ਆਉਣ ਵਾਲੇ ਗਿਆਨ ਵਿਗਿਆਨ ਦੇ ਯੁਗਾਂ ਲਈ ਸੱਚ ਤਰਕ ਦੀ ਹਰ ਕਸਵੱਟੀ ਤੇ ਪੂਰੀਆਂ ਉੱਤਰਦੀਆਂ ਅਤੇ ਵਿਗਿਆਨ ਦੀ ਸੁਚੱਜੀ ਵਰਤੋਂ ਲਈ ਰਾਹ ਦਿਸੇਰਾ ਦਿਖਣ ਲੱਗੀਆਂ। ਜਾਣੇ ਅਣਜਾਣੇ ਵਿੱਚ ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਬਰਾਬਰ ਲਿਆਂਦੇ ਜਾ ਰਹੇ ਹੋਰ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਨਾਨਕ ਬਾਣੀ ਸਾਹਮਣੇ ਫਲਸਫੇ, ਬੋਲੀ, ਬਣਤਰ, ਸੱਚ-ਵਿਵੇਕ, ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ-ਨਿਯਮਾਂ ਅਤੇ ਸਰਬੱਤ ਦੇ ਭਲੇ ਦੀ ਬ੍ਰਹਿਮੰਡੀ ਵਿਚਾਰਧਾਰਾ ਪੱਖੋਂ ਬਹੁਤ ਦੂਰ ਰਹਿ ਗਏ। ਗੈਰ ਕੁਦਰਤੀ ਵਰਤਾਰੇ ਅਤੇ ਕ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਮਿਆਂ ਦੀਆਂ ਲੁਭਾਵਣੀਆਂ ਕਹਾਣੀਆਂ ਬਾਬੇ ਨਾਨਕ ਦੀ ਦਰਸਾਈ ਸੱਚ-ਤਰਕ ਤਹਿਤ ਵਿਗਸ ਰਹੀ ਸੋਚ ਨੇ ਬਾਲ ਜਗਤ ਦੀਆਂ ਪਰੀ ਕਹਾਣੀਆਂ ਵਾਂਗ ਕਿਤੇ ਡੂੰਘੀਆਂ ਦੱਬ ਦਿੱਤੀਆਂ। ਸੋ ਅਜਿਹੇ ਵਿਚਾਰਧਾਰਕ ਸੰਘਰਸ਼ ਮਈ ਸਮੇ ਵਿੱਚ ਅੰਧਵਿਸ਼ਵਾਸ, ਕੁਦਰਤ ਵਿਰੋਧੀ ਅਤੇ ਕਰਿਸ਼ਮਿਆਂ ਦੀ ਲੰਮੇ ਸਮੇ ਤੋਂ ਸੰਮੋਹਣ ਕੀਤੀ ਮਨੁੱਖੀ ਸੋਚ ਦੁਆਰਾ, ਆਪਣੇ ਖਤਮ ਹੋਣ ਜਾ ਰਹੇ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਵ ਨੂੰ ਦੇਖ ਆਨੇ-ਬਹਾਨੇ ਨਾਸਤਿਕਤਾ ਦਾ ਡਰ ਦੇ ਕੇ ਅਤੇ ਬਣ ਚੁੱਕੀਆਂ ਪਰੰਪਰਾਵਾਂ ਦੀ ਆੜ ਬਣਾ,ਬਾਬੇ ਨਾਨਕ ਦੀ ਸੋਚ ਅਨੁਸਾਰ ਜਾਗਰੁਕ ਹੁੰਦੇ ਜਾ ਰਹੇ ਮਨਾਂ ਵਿੱਚ, ਮਜ਼ਹਬੀ ਅਤੇ ਰਾਜਨੀਤਿਕ ਗੱਠਜੋੜ ਦੀ ਸਥਾਪਤੀ ਹੇਠ ਮੁੜ ਪੈਰ ਜਮਾਉਣ ਦੀ ਤਾਕ ਰੱਖਣਾ ਅਚੰਭਿਤ ਨਹੀਂ ਹੈ।

 

[spnadmin]

These above were some deletions that hit me hard because I really did not want to delete any of it. But this is where being objective hurts and is probably a mirage anyway.

Reasoning: Some of the discussion was going off the topic of whether angels are part of Sikhi. Most of the conversation was a continuation of personal disagreement between 2 forum members, and it is time to let go of it.

Both of these members post comments that I truly enjoy and nearly always agree with. That is what made the deletions hard for me. Friends at war....... hmmmmm..........

I want to re-state Harry Haller's question a different way. But open participation to everyone. No need to hold palaingtha personally responsible for answering it.

So the question for all to consider is: If there are no angels in Sikhi, then how can there be "imps" in Sikhism, or any incarnations of evil intention and spirit?

 

[palaingtha]

Ok, let us get back to topic, could you kindly explain to me, in a straightforward fashion why imps exist but not angels?

Imps are Bhoot, prets and Angels are supposed to assist God as per Christian's belief, but, in Sikhism there is only One and only One authority between the creation and the creator. Bhoot , Prets exist.
Can you explain me the reason behind the following happening:-

One morning I was driving to my office in Faridabad. About 2-3 miles from the Delhi border there is a small dilapidated mazar by the road side while going towards F'bad where I saw a fully loaded truck turned turtle on the road towards Delhi. There was blood splattered near the driver's cabin of the said truck. While returning in the evening the same day I found the truck was removed,
The next day there was another truck with almost the same fate blood and all and at the same spot. The said truck was removed to clear the road by the evening.
Yet on the third day there was another truck but a few meters before the accident sites of previous accidents. But there was no blood.
Can you explain why this happened for three consecutive days?
One can understand the first as an accident, but what about the two others incidents?
It is a true incident as much as the true story I related about the seven heaps of rice with fish on each and the subsequent death of my companion.
As a true Sikh I do not lie nor exaggerate matters. I do not care you believe it or not.
I will be interested to know what caused the two trucks meeting with accidents at the same place or near about where the first truck turned turtle..

 

[spnadmin]

Is it possible that bhoots, pret are human beings who come fully loaded with evil intentions and wicked deeds --- prisoners of the 5 evils, they spend lifetimes lying in wait for moments when they can harm and injure their fellow creatures? So in the case of the trucks, they were all stopped and even stopped violently, by bandits in the early morning hours. No one was looking. Drivers who put up a fight were gunned down, hence the blood. Otherwise, drivers were clubbed, kidnapped, buried, no blood. Money and goods were stollen. And the bandits took off, only to set a trap for the next day.

The bhoots are not supernatural, but are filled with super-natural evil and wickedness. In the same way, angels are not supernatural, but are filled with super-natural goodness, more than an ordinary person can muster up. They are called "angels" but they are really humans (or dogs) who act from love of the creator.

 

[palaingtha]

Is it possible that bhoots, pret are human beings who come fully loaded with evil intentions and wicked deeds --- prisoners of the 5 evils they spend lifetimes lying in wait for moments when they can harm and injure the fellow creatures? So in the case of the trucks, they were all stopped and even stopped violently by bandits in the early morning hours. No one was looking. Drivers who put up a fight were gunned down, hence the blood. Otherwise, drivers were clubbed, kidnapped, buried, no blood. Money and goods were stollen. And the bandits took off only to set a trap for the next day.

The bhoots are not supernatural, but are filled with super-natural evil and wickedness. In the same way, angels are not supernatural, but are filled with super-natural goodness, more than an ordinary person can muster up. They are called "angels" but they are really human (or dogs) who act from love of the creator.

What about the trucks turning turtle, at the same or almost same spot and the loaded goods were splattered near the relative trucks.
Certainly you have no explanations for it. Like the following mystry in my life. I will be brief.
I went to a town about 70 miles from my home. There I dreamnt I died and my body was burried and a cemented monument built. I was lying on some green grass in a football ground like field and thought the I am a Sikh and they should have cremated me. Having objections to burried I got up and moved towards the town. My dream ended there.
On return to my home next day I forgot about the dream. After 2 days instead of Sundays the Gurdwara Jormela happens on every sabbath day. On that day I was standing like others listening to Ardas. The Bhaiji read the ardas as usual and went on saying "vichhari atama... Kuldip Singh... apne charan vich nivas baksho..."
When I returned home I asked my mother who is this Kuldip Singh whose name was said in Ardas.
I learnt to my astonishment that the said boy named Kuldip Singh was brought near our house and the Rickshaw he was riding had to stop near the window of our house at ground floor where my bed is placed as the lane further was muddy due to rain water. He had some PAKAD and was being taken to an Ojha who was living in the vicinity of my house. The Ojha came where the boy on the rickshaw was and declared that it was a matter beyond his control. Said he could not be saved as it was too late. The boy died while he was still near my house.
Was it a mistaken identity by the Yamdoots or WHAT?
This is true happening. That boys brothers are at present living in Delhi and anybody who wants to verify can do so.
The trucks happening is super natural as also this incident. If not what could be this?

 

[spnadmin]

I think the problem with bhoots, jamdhoot, prets is the same problem with angels. It is all speculation. Maybe it is true, maybe not! We watch TV programs, read news articles buried near the back pages, search the Internet to indulge our need for stories of the unexplained. The stories are mostly personal experiences, each one odd and strange. Then the conclusion is -- we will never know for sure, but how about giving angels some credit anyway, just in case? Or let's open up to the possibility that jamdhoots are at it again.

We use 10 mystery stories to explore the first mystery we started with, and end up with a brand new mystery on our hands when we are finished. It seems to me Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji sees no point to this, whether we are talking about angels or about bhoots, jamdhoots, prets, etc.

And the more tangled our minds become in stories of the unexplained, the more we drift over to babas who are 100 percent willing to make everything crystal clear for a sum of money, and some extra favors thrown into the bargain.

 

[Harry Haller]

and it is time to let go of it.

ok, ok, no more mischief, however, I leave you with a quote from bhoots everywhere

"and I would have got away with it too, had it not been for you damn kids"

 

[Luckysingh]

If there were really no angels, then Los Angeles wouldn't exist !!lol

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

WHY do we IGNORE the VAST OCEAN of Good advise in the 1429 Pages of SGGSxamples form the lives of the 36 Gurus and Bhagats over long period of Centuries on how to LIVE as GOOD AN BEINGS..GURMUKHS...and nit pick on a "FEW" references to suposedly evil bhoots prets angels and dharamraaj etc...

The World is ADDICTED to bhoots and angels and the Super-Natural..while the SGGS is mostly about the NATURAL....see how everyone was hyping about the 21-12-12 End of the World..the Apocalypse..etc etc..and SGGS has only this to say.."ONLY HE KNOWS"...ONLY HE CREATED..ONLY HE DESTROYS..ONLY HIS WILL PREVAILS...But everyone....continued to speculate...and wonder and fear..some ridiculing..others shaking in fear and stocking up on food and toilet paper of all things !! NOW that this was proven False alarm..the doomsdayers are on to new grounds...looking for the next doomsday to predict...LOL...ONLY HE KNOWS is the FINAL DECISION of our GURU..LIVE this HUMAN LIFE as a GURMUKH.PERIOD.

 

[Luckysingh]

A Gurmukh does not fear doomsday, death or the end of time.
A gurmukh does not fear at all...Period.!!
Why waste time and life living in fear ?

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

And I wonder which BHOOT toppled this TRUCK ?? is he white..black..sikh or muslim bhoot ?? I have checked..there is NO NAZAR nearby..no Graveyard..No cremation grounds...its just an ordinary highway...

 

[palaingtha]

ok, ok, no more mischief, however, I leave you with a quote from bhoots everywhere

"and I would have got away with it too, had it not been for you damn kids"

???????????????????

 

[palaingtha]

And I wonder which BHOOT toppled this TRUCK ?? is he white..black..sikh or muslim bhoot ?? I have checked..there is NO NAZAR nearby..no Graveyard..No cremation grounds...its just an ordinary highway...

Did such things happen for three consecutive days?
Giani ji what about the 1000 currency note kept in your joora was found in a durian cut by a magician?
There is no virtue in making mockery of happenings experienced by others. Some people have a habit of disbelieving what others say.
For such people I have a question. Did you believe when your mother said "beta this is your father." Did he raised any doubts? If mother is a liar then every body in this world could be a liar, but not necessarily.
Those with lesser life experiences mock at what others experienced in real
What do you say about my dream.
Was the Joora/currency story a lie? I believed it as I had some such experiences.
I want to ask Harry Haller did he believe in Joora/currency note story of your's? I asked for his comments but he refrained from answering. Is he a hypocrite? If not he owes me a reply regarding his comments on Joora/currency story.

 

[Harry Haller]

Did such things happen for three consecutive days?
Giani ji what about the 1000 currency note kept in your joora was found in a durian cut by a magician?
There is no virtue in making mockery of happenings experienced by others. Some people have a habit of disbelieving what others say.
For such people I have a question. Did you believe when your mother said "beta this is your father." Did he raised any doubts? If mother is a liar then every body in this world could be a liar, but not necessarily.
Those with lesser life experiences mock at what others experienced in real
What do you say about my dream.
Was the Joora/currency story a lie? I believed it as I had some such experiences.
I want to ask Harry Haller did he believe in Joora/currency note story of your's? I asked for his comments but he refrained from answering. Is he a hypocrite? If not he owes me a reply regarding his comments on Joora/currency story.

You saw what you think you saw, since time started there have been magicians in the markets who have mastered the art of illusion. The reason why they are still in the markets, is because that is all they are, illusionists.

That is why in every single Scooby Doo episode, the phantom/ghost/witch/demon is always unmasked as a fraud, because they simply do not exist.



P464
ਨਾਨਕ ਨਿਰਭਉ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰੁ ਹੋਰਿ ਕੇਤੇ ਰਾਮ ਰਵਾਲ ॥
नानक निरभउ निरंकारु होरि केते राम रवाल ॥
Nānak nirbẖa▫o nirankār hor keṯe rām ravāl.
O Nanak, the Lord is fearless and formless; myriads of others, like Rama, are mere dust before Him.

ਕੇਤੀਆ ਕੰਨ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਕਹਾਣੀਆ ਕੇਤੇ ਬੇਦ ਬੀਚਾਰ ॥
केतीआ कंन्ह कहाणीआ केते बेद बीचार ॥
Keṯī▫ā kanĥ kahāṇī▫ā keṯe beḏ bīcẖār.
There are so many stories of Krishna, so many who reflect over the Vedas.

ਕੇਤੇ ਨਚਹਿ ਮੰਗਤੇ ਗਿੜਿ ਮੁੜਿ ਪੂਰਹਿ ਤਾਲ ॥
केते नचहि मंगते गिड़ि मुड़ि पूरहि ताल ॥
Keṯe nacẖėh mangṯe giṛ muṛ pūrėh ṯāl.
So many beggars dance, spinning around to the beat.

ਬਾਜਾਰੀ ਬਾਜਾਰ ਮਹਿ ਆਇ ਕਢਹਿ ਬਾਜਾਰ ॥
बाजारी बाजार महि आइ कढहि बाजार ॥
Bājārī bājār mėh ā▫e kadẖėh bājār.
The magicians perform their magic in the market place, creating a false illusion.

ਗਾਵਹਿ ਰਾਜੇ ਰਾਣੀਆ ਬੋਲਹਿ ਆਲ ਪਤਾਲ ॥
गावहि राजे राणीआ बोलहि आल पताल ॥
Gāvahi rāje rāṇī▫ā bolėh āl paṯāl.
They sing as kings and queens, and speak of this and that.

ਲਖ ਟਕਿਆ ਕੇ ਮੁੰਦੜੇ ਲਖ ਟਕਿਆ ਕੇ ਹਾਰ ॥
लख टकिआ के मुंदड़े लख टकिआ के हार ॥
Lakẖ taki▫ā ke munḏ▫ṛe lakẖ taki▫ā ke hār.
They wear earrings, and necklaces worth thousands of dollars.

ਜਿਤੁ ਤਨਿ ਪਾਈਅਹਿ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਸੇ ਤਨ ਹੋਵਹਿ ਛਾਰ ॥
जितु तनि पाईअहि नानका से तन होवहि छार ॥
Jiṯ ṯan pā▫ī▫ah nānkā se ṯan hovėh cẖẖār.
Those bodies on which they are worn, O Nanak, those bodies turn to ashes.

ਗਿਆਨੁ ਨ ਗਲੀਈ ਢੂਢੀਐ ਕਥਨਾ ਕਰੜਾ ਸਾਰੁ ॥
गिआनु न गलीई ढूढीऐ कथना करड़ा सारु ॥
Gi▫ān na galī▫ī dẖūdẖī▫ai kathnā karṛā sār.
Wisdom cannot be found through mere words. To explain it is as hard as iron.

ਕਰਮਿ ਮਿਲੈ ਤਾ ਪਾਈਐ ਹੋਰ ਹਿਕਮਤਿ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਖੁਆਰੁ ॥੨॥
करमि मिलै ता पाईऐ होर हिकमति हुकमु खुआरु ॥२॥
Karam milai ṯā pā▫ī▫ai hor hikmaṯ hukam kẖu▫ār. ||2||
When the Lord bestows His Grace, then alone it is received; other tricks and orders are useless. ||2||

 

[palaingtha]

You saw what you think you saw, since time started there have been magicians in the markets who have mastered the art of illusion. The reason why they are still in the markets, is because that is all they are, illusionists.

That is why in every single Scooby Doo episode, the phantom/ghost/witch/demon is always unmasked as a fraud, because they simply do not exist.



P464
<table cellspacing="5"><tbody><tr></tr><tr><td> ਨਾਨਕ ਨਿਰਭਉ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰੁ ਹੋਰਿ ਕੇਤੇ ਰਾਮ ਰਵਾਲ ॥
नानक निरभउ निरंकारु होरि केते राम रवाल ॥
Nānak nirbẖa▫o nirankār hor keṯe rām ravāl.
O Nanak, the Lord is fearless and formless; myriads of others, like Rama, are mere dust before Him.
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਕੇਤੀਆ ਕੰਨ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਕਹਾਣੀਆ ਕੇਤੇ ਬੇਦ ਬੀਚਾਰ ॥
केतीआ कंन्ह कहाणीआ केते बेद बीचार ॥
Keṯī▫ā kanĥ kahāṇī▫ā keṯe beḏ bīcẖār.
There are so many stories of Krishna, so many who reflect over the Vedas.
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਕੇਤੇ ਨਚਹਿ ਮੰਗਤੇ ਗਿੜਿ ਮੁੜਿ ਪੂਰਹਿ ਤਾਲ ॥
केते नचहि मंगते गिड़ि मुड़ि पूरहि ताल ॥
Keṯe nacẖėh mangṯe giṛ muṛ pūrėh ṯāl.
So many beggars dance, spinning around to the beat.
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਬਾਜਾਰੀ ਬਾਜਾਰ ਮਹਿ ਆਇ ਕਢਹਿ ਬਾਜਾਰ ॥
बाजारी बाजार महि आइ कढहि बाजार ॥
Bājārī bājār mėh ā▫e kadẖėh bājār.
The magicians perform their magic in the market place, creating a false illusion.
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਗਾਵਹਿ ਰਾਜੇ ਰਾਣੀਆ ਬੋਲਹਿ ਆਲ ਪਤਾਲ ॥
गावहि राजे राणीआ बोलहि आल पताल ॥
Gāvahi rāje rāṇī▫ā bolėh āl paṯāl.
They sing as kings and queens, and speak of this and that.
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਲਖ ਟਕਿਆ ਕੇ ਮੁੰਦੜੇ ਲਖ ਟਕਿਆ ਕੇ ਹਾਰ ॥
लख टकिआ के मुंदड़े लख टकिआ के हार ॥
Lakẖ taki▫ā ke munḏ▫ṛe lakẖ taki▫ā ke hār.
They wear earrings, and necklaces worth thousands of dollars.
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਜਿਤੁ ਤਨਿ ਪਾਈਅਹਿ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਸੇ ਤਨ ਹੋਵਹਿ ਛਾਰ ॥
जितु तनि पाईअहि नानका से तन होवहि छार ॥
Jiṯ ṯan pā▫ī▫ah nānkā se ṯan hovėh cẖẖār.
Those bodies on which they are worn, O Nanak, those bodies turn to ashes.
</td></tr></tbody></table><table cellspacing="5"><tbody><tr></tr><tr><td> ਗਿਆਨੁ ਨ ਗਲੀਈ ਢੂਢੀਐ ਕਥਨਾ ਕਰੜਾ ਸਾਰੁ ॥
गिआनु न गलीई ढूढीऐ कथना करड़ा सारु ॥
Gi▫ān na galī▫ī dẖūdẖī▫ai kathnā karṛā sār.
Wisdom cannot be found through mere words. To explain it is as hard as iron.
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਕਰਮਿ ਮਿਲੈ ਤਾ ਪਾਈਐ ਹੋਰ ਹਿਕਮਤਿ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਖੁਆਰੁ ॥੨॥
करमि मिलै ता पाईऐ होर हिकमति हुकमु खुआरु ॥२॥
Karam milai ṯā pā▫ī▫ai hor hikmaṯ hukam kẖu▫ār. ||2||
When the Lord bestows His Grace, then alone it is received; other tricks and orders are useless. ||2||



</td></tr></tbody></table>

Deleted are comments that seem like taunting to me. Time to make a fresh start so that the personal argument does not dominate the discussion of a topic. Thanks.


Regarding the posts you made today it is irrelevant to ghosts etc. Guru Granth Sahib acknowledges bhoot prets and I can give you the quotes from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. I have already cited you a few shloaks before also.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

I think you MISSED my reply ji... I already said that ..Back then I was an impressionable young teen...BUT NOW..with my vast Gurbani related Personal experience and knowledge..I have not an iota of doubt anymore that such things are mere ILLUSION..DHUAANH da Pahaarr...Mountain of Smoke. So harry ji need not answer as I have already disavowed that "experience" as that of an inexperienced teen. Now I am 65 and I KNOW.

I Have searched for another such magician...for past decade or so..no LUCK...and I never expected to find him as he doesnt EXIST as far as I am presently concerned.

In this context I have also read somewhere Maskin ji saying that he could TURN BACK the CLOCKS of everyone present whenever he was LATE for a Programme....so he was always on TIME..even though actually late by an hour or so... THIS i beleive is MASS HYNOPOTISM...that must have been performed on me as a teenager back then...

I am extremely SORRY i cannot agree with you on this BHOOT PRET thingy and my position is exactly that taken by harry haller Ji.

Coincidences are rarely that...ask a Road Engineer..he will tell you that at certain places on Highways etc..the slope..structure etc can cause such trucks to overturn if the drivers drive in a certain way...thats why certain sections of Highways are MARKED.."ACCIDENT PRONE" drive slowly and with caution...

 

[spnadmin]

To everyone: My opinion is that if anyone replies to the question about the mother who says "beta this is your father" or the "Joora currency story" in a joking way the comment will be deleted. I understand that it is hard to take comments that contradict our beliefs about jamdoots, prets, bhoots in stride, whether these be pro or con. Try not to see the discussion as a series of personal attacks, and accept the fact that a disagreement is not always a personal attack. Try to avoid jokes, because we can see that some of the participants take this to heart.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

If we simply google.."Coincidences".....we can compose a Granth twice the size of SGGS in a single hour.. do we really want to waste precious time on this ??? NOT ME.

http://paranormal.about.com/od/humanenigmas/a/Amazing-Coincidences.htm

 

[BhagatSingh]

How would we know if there were such things as bhoot and pret amongst us?

They are said to be immaterial hence no physical evidence can be provided. But the same argument can be made about the God and soul. In the latter case, personal experience will suffice IMO. To know God and soul one has to see them oneself.

Perhaps the same is true of bhoot and pret. Only through personal experience can one know them. You have to see for yourself because no one else can present any evidence for it.