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Do You Believe In Reincarnation Or Transmigration?

Do you believe in reincarnation / transmigration?

  • Yes, the soul starts as a lower life form and progresses up or down according to karma

    Votes: 6 22.2%
  • Yes, but rebirth not affected by karma

    Votes: 1 3.7%
  • Yes, but with other (or no) conditions

    Votes: 2 7.4%
  • No, I don't believe in reincarnation or transmigration

    Votes: 13 48.1%
  • Other (please detail in thread)

    Votes: 5 18.5%

  • Total voters
    27
  • Poll closed .

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
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Kamala ji,
I'm not quite sure why, but you always make me smile.
Inderjeet Kaur ji I got to admit I smile too. I believe it is the role model of an elderly person talking too cutely while politely mis-informing. Her Hindi is very good, she even posted it here in one of the other threads and I paraphrase, "I am trying to belittle the ignorant one" hinting at one of the respected members without naming. I thought that cannot be a young person.

Sat Sri Akal.
 

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
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Lol! Sorry ji^2

But this time I heard that in the gurdwara

Namashkar.
Kamla ji may I ask which Gurdwara as there are some affronts too. You seem to quote lot of Granthi said this, Panth said that, I will really suggest you question rather than believe if you know anything is wrong based on your Sikhi training. If you cannot question and have little knowledge then I suggest you verify a bit before quoting as most of your post as such are mis-information or selective mis-information. I believe it will be very hard for you to be a Sikh with this attitude to denegrade, and not even respectfully address Guru ji (check your posts where you casually address Guru ji, e.g. the Dating thread). When you dis-respect teachers you cannot expect to learn much that sticks.

Not to belabor the point but you do not come across as Sikhism loving (not asking for blind love) in your mannerisms.

Sorry to say all that but it is good to be upfront.

Sat Sri Akal.

PS: Namashkar is Hindi, Punjabi is Namaskar. I suggest you brush up on your Punjabi and use Sat Sri Akal instead.
 

Kamala

Banned
May 26, 2011
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Well first off, It's Namashkar, because that's how we say it in Doab (Jalandhar). Also I never disrespected the guru ji, if you may use your talented quoting skills and requote me again I would be happy to reply with a more knoledgable outlook. Also are you asking what Gurdwara I go to? I just like to look at stuff more traditionally rather than American influences on dating.

Namashkar.
 

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
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Well first off, It's Namashkar, because that's how we say it in Doab (Jalandhar). Also I never disrespected the guru ji, if you may use your talented quoting skills and requote me again I would be happy to reply with a more knoledgable outlook. Also are you asking what Gurdwara I go to? I just like to look at stuff more traditionally rather than American influences on dating.

Namashkar.
Bhain Kamala ji sometimes I think you are young (so I don't want to be too blunt) and then I think you are basically "agent provocateur" and then I say what I see. To ensure that I don't overdo things and that you are younger with a full life ahead of you (may it be wonderful healthy, happy and prosperous) I am going to limit how much I interact with you.

Sorry about that.

If you have specific questions on specific Sikhism aspects I will always share in a learning mode but not to say which religion is better or worse. All I know is a true Sikh can be a Sikh and not a hodge podge of everything as that will simply mean they have not understood the Guru ji's teaching and Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Sat Sri Akal and good night/good morning.
 
Last edited:

Harry Haller

Panga Master
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As sikhs we are all here to help each other learn, however one firstly has to accept that one is in need of learning, and then one has to be eager to learn, once cannot help those that have no wish to learn, either through arrogance or ego, it is simply a waste of everyone's precious time
 

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
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We are partial and continuous re-incarnation of all around every moment of our living and after death peacesign :interestedmunda: icecreammunda

Let us see if you can think about it after a Pizza slice and coke winkingmunda :interestedsingh: :geeksingh: :veryhappymunda:
If you figure it out and describe it here, you will enjoy everything all around and start relating to the continuum that is all around.

We are dead while alive and alive when dead just minor adjustments and recognition of all that is.

Enjoy the season.

Sat Sri Akal.
 

Inderjeet Kaur

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Oct 13, 2011
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I believe on Wednesday we must reincarnate Tuesdays pizza from the dead or the fridge you could say.
There is none of my pizza left from Tuesday to reincarnate on Wednesday. What I don't eat,my parrot does.

Bur I still think it's better to live today and let tomorrow - dead or alive - take care of itself.
 

TigerStyleZ

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Mar 30, 2011
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WJKK WJKF,

I dont want to dig out the Post again - but I still do not understand/comprehend why so much people vote " No, I don't believe in reincarnation or transmigration" , as per Guru Granth Sahib. There is no reasioning or quotation from anyone that Gurbani disapproving the point of reincarnation. Much people say that mostly the argumentation goes against the Vedasis at that time etc.. But where are the sources or the ANGS of Guru Granth Sahib ji? Here are some of my views... I am sorry that I could not post whole Shabad as I am still learning.. much to do... yeah..


I'm interested to hear the views of members around reincarnation and Sikhi.

I often reference the late Dr Baldev Singh ji's article 'Nanakian Philosophy (Gurmat)' which you can access in the January-February 2009 edition of The Sikh Bulletin here: http://sikhbulletin.com/Bulletins/Si...JanFeb2009.pdf Particularly page 33 'Karma and Reincarnation'.



Here's a snippet, aplogies about the formatting but I don't seem to be able to correct it:
Our Gurus used the terminologies of other religions but their
meanings are not necessarily the same in the AGGS. There
are frequent references to Hindu and Muslim beliefs and
practices as the Gurus’ audience was made up of Hindus and
Muslim, but the Gurus did not endorse or accept their beliefs
or practices. There are expressions like
aavan jaan, aavai jaavai,janam janam,
jamai marai and bhavayaiwhich are
often interpreted as cycle of birth and death or cycle of transmigration. However, in the AGGS, these expressions are used as metaphors for spiritual (moral) degeneration and
regeneration human beings experience in their lives or pain
and suffering or being entrapped in ignorance and falsehood
or wandering aimlessly or they represent the Hindu belief of
reincarnation/transmigration. Besides, there are other words
and terms that are often misunderstood and misinterpreted
like:

poorab means past, not one’s previous life;


poorab janam means past generations, not


one’s previous birth, jeev jeev mue or jeevat mare
means control of Haumai, mue jeevameans transformation of manmukh to gurmukh, jo


tis bhaavai means according to Hukam, and God’s Will mean Hukam.

Further as discussed in Chapter 1, Guru Nanak rejected the caste system categorically, so why would he accept the concept of karma and reincarnation /transmigration that was invented to justify the caste system?


Sorry evertime I read differnt opinions , I start reading Bani in differnt way - and that just keeps confusing me - I wouldr eally love to discuss this in depth further and compare it to Bani wth quotations etc...
 
Aug 27, 2005
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I have to assume that one who does not accept reincarnation can not accept the law of karma either. Without reincarnation the only karma possible is what I call "cash" karma, like if you punch someone in the face today and someone punches you tomorrow. Peoples' births would be totally random events and we would only have one lifetime to process the mysteries of The Creator and reach salvation. The situation one was born into could be a great disadvantage on the path to self realization and enlightenment.
I believe everyone will be reunited with The Creator and it can not be done in one lifetime.

Peace
Satyaban
 

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
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Dec 21, 2010
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Tiger StyleZ ji thanks for your post.

I believe the emphasis or elaboration in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji in any aspects of past or future is the word "transformation" Simply meaning all from one source and all into one source and transforming for ever.

In our limited vision of creation and lack of stickiness with or understanding of transformation we try to simplify it into reincarnation and transmigration. Of course all life is linked to each other in ways strong, weak or very incomprehensible to us at any given point in time. In any of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji let us remember that the following is not supported or postulated,

  • Any of the Guru ji's or other whose bani is in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji do not cite themselves personally to be,
    • Some one or something as a whole to be someone or something else in any previous time
      • The references are to be of one as in "Awaal Allah Noor Upaya ..."
    • There are great references to transformation of us to other things, etc., rather than all of us to transfer into a snake or a donkey
      • For example "Mitti mulman ki pereh payee ghumiar..." where reference is how a potter seeks out soil from around the grave sites for the best clay to make earthenware as such soil having absorbed dead bodies is more malleable
Guru ji do emphasize the form of a human as enchanting and precious opportunity that should be given the due respect by living in consonance as a way to be so thankful and being gracious.

Citation of the references above,
ਮਃ
मः १ ॥
Mėhlā 1.
First Mehl:
ਪਹਿਲੀ ਪਾਤਸ਼ਾਹੀ।
xxx
xxx

ਮਿਟੀਮੁਸਲਮਾਨਕੀਪੇੜੈਪਈਕੁਮ੍ਹ੍ਹਿਆਰ
मिटी मुसलमान की पेड़ै पई कुम्हिआर ॥
Mitī musalmān kī peṛai pa▫ī kumĥi▫ār.
The clay of the Muslim's grave becomes clay for the potter's wheel.
ਮੁਸਲਮਾਨ ਦੀ ਕਬਰ ਦੀ ਮਿੱਟੀ ਘੁਮਾਰ ਦੇ ਪਿੰਨੇ ਵਿੱਚ ਪੈਦੀ ਹੈ।
xxx
(ਮੁਸਲਮਾਨ ਇਹ ਖ਼ਿਆਲ ਕਰਦੇ ਹਨ ਕਿ ਮਰਨ ਤੋਂ ਪਿਛੋਂ ਜਿਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਦਾ ਸਰੀਰ ਸਾੜਿਆ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ, ਉਹ ਦੋਜ਼ਕ ਦੀ ਅੱਗ ਵਿਚ ਸੜਦੇ ਹਨ, ਪਰ) ਉਸ ਥਾਂ ਦੀ ਮਿੱਟੀ ਭੀ ਜਿੱਥੇ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਨ ਮੁਰਦੇ ਦੱਬਦੇ ਹਨ (ਕਈ ਵਾਰੀ) ਕੁਮ੍ਹਿਆਰ ਦੇ ਵੱਸ ਪੈ ਜਾਂਦੀ ਹੈ (ਭਾਵ, ਉਹ ਮਿੱਟੀ ਚੀਕਣੀ ਹੋਣ ਕਰਕੇ ਕੁਮ੍ਹਿਆਰ ਲੋਕ ਕਈ ਵਾਰੀ ਉਹ ਮਿੱਟੀ ਭਾਂਡੇ ਬਣਾਣ ਲਈ ਲੈ ਆਉਂਦੇ ਹਨ);

ਘੜਿਭਾਂਡੇਇਟਾਕੀਆਜਲਦੀਕਰੇਪੁਕਾਰ
घड़ि भांडे इटा कीआ जलदी करे पुकार ॥
Gẖaṛ bẖāʼnde itā kī▫ā jalḏī kare pukār.
Pots and bricks are fashioned from it, and it cries out as it burns.
ਇਸ ਤੋਂ ਬਰਤਨ ਬਣਾਏ ਜਾਂਦੇ ਹਨ, ਤੇ ਇੱਟਾਂ ਘੜੀਆਂ ਜਾਂਦੀਆਂ ਹਨ। ਸੜਦੀ ਹੋਈ ਇਹ ਚੀਕ-ਚਿਹਾੜਾ ਪਾਉਂਦੀ ਹੈ।
ਕੀਆ = ਬਣਾਈਆਂ। ਕਰੇ ਪੁਕਾਰ = (ਉਹ ਮਿੱਟੀ, ਮਾਨੋ) ਪੁਕਾਰ ਕਰਦੀ ਹੈ।
(ਕੁਮ੍ਹਿਆਰ ਉਸ ਮਿੱਟੀ ਨੂੰ) ਘੜ ਕੇ (ਉਸ ਦੇ) ਭਾਂਡੇ ਤੇ ਇੱਟਾਂ ਬਣਾਉਂਦਾ ਹੈ, (ਤੇ ਆਵੀ ਵਿਚ ਪੈ ਕੇ, ਉਹ ਮਿੱਟੀ, ਮਾਨੋ) ਸੜਦੀ ਹੋਈ ਪੁਕਾਰ ਕਰਦੀ ਹੈ,

ਜਲਿਜਲਿਰੋਵੈਬਪੁੜੀਝੜਿਝੜਿਪਵਹਿਅੰਗਿਆਰ
जलि जलि रोवै बपुड़ी झड़ि झड़ि पवहि अंगिआर ॥
Jal jal rovai bapuṛī jẖaṛ jẖaṛ pavėh angi▫ār.
The poor clay burns, burns and weeps, as the fiery coals fall upon it.
ਗਰੀਬ ਮਿੱਟੀ ਮੱਚਦੀ ਅਤੇ ਰੋਂਦੀ ਹੈ ਅਤੇ ਸੜਦੇ ਹੋਏ ਕੋਲੇ ਇਸ ਤੋਂ ਡਿੱਗ ਡਿੱਗ ਪੈਦੇ ਹਨ।
ਜਲਿ ਜਲਿ = ਸੜ ਸੜ ਕੇ। ਪਵਹਿ = (ਭੁੰਞੇ) ਡਿਗਦੇ ਹਨ।
ਸੜ ਕੇ ਵਿਚਾਰੀ ਰੋਂਦੀ ਹੈ ਤੇ ਉਸ ਵਿਚੋਂ ਅੰਗਿਆਰੇ ਝੜ ਝੜ ਕੇ ਡਿਗਦੇ ਹਨ,

ਨਾਨਕਜਿਨਿਕਰਤੈਕਾਰਣੁਕੀਆਸੋਜਾਣੈਕਰਤਾਰੁ॥੨॥
नानक जिनि करतै कारणु कीआ सो जाणै करतारु ॥२॥
Nānak jin karṯai kāraṇ kī▫ā so jāṇai karṯār. ||2||
O Nanak, the Creator created the creation; the Creator Lord alone knows. ||2||
ਨਾਨਕ, ਕੇਵਲ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ, ਸਿਰਜਣਹਾਰ ਹੀ, ਜਿਸ ਨੇ ਸੰਸਾਰ ਸਾਜਿਆ ਹੈ, ਜਾਣਦਾ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਸਾੜਨਾ ਚੰਗਾ ਹੈ ਜਾਂ ਦੱਬਣਾ।
ਜਿਨਿ ਕਰਤੈ = ਜਿਸ ਕਰਤਾਰ ਨੇ। ਕਾਰਣੁ = ਜਗਤ ਦੀ ਮਾਇਆ ॥੨॥
(ਪਰ ਨਿਜਾਤ ਜਾਂ ਦੋਜ਼ਕ ਦਾ ਮੁਰਦਾ ਸਰੀਰ ਦੇ ਸਾੜਨ ਜਾਂ ਦੱਬਣ ਨਾਲ ਕੋਈ ਸੰਬੰਧ ਨਹੀਂ ਹੈ), ਹੇ ਨਾਨਕ! ਜਿਸ ਕਰਤਾਰ ਨੇ ਜਗਤ ਦੀ ਮਾਇਆ ਰਚੀ ਹੈ, ਉਹ (ਅਸਲ ਭੇਦ ਨੂੰ) ਜਾਣਦਾ ਹੈ ॥੨॥
In the above there is categorical denial as to someone as a whole becoming something alive and different and just re-incarnating or trans-migrating.

ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ
प्रभाती ॥
Parbẖāṯī.
Prabhaatee:
ਅਵਲਿਅਲਹਨੂਰੁਉਪਾਇਆਕੁਦਰਤਿਕੇਸਭਬੰਦੇ
अवलि अलह नूरु उपाइआ कुदरति के सभ बंदे ॥
Aval alah nūr upā▫i▫ā kuḏraṯ ke sabẖ banḏe.
First, Allah created the Light; then, by His Creative Power, He made all mortal beings.
ਏਕਨੂਰਤੇਸਭੁਜਗੁਉਪਜਿਆਕਉਨਭਲੇਕੋਮੰਦੇ॥੧॥
एक नूर ते सभु जगु उपजिआ कउन भले को मंदे ॥१॥
Ėk nūr ṯe sabẖ jag upji▫ā ka▫un bẖale ko manḏe. ||1||
From the One Light, the entire universe welled up. So who is good, and who is bad? ||1||

http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=1349&punjabi=t&id=57706#l57706

Again in the above reference is of one that one comes from. There is no higher, lower, better or worse but simply transformed or created out of one. The uniqueness of anyone is only that they all come from one and rest are perceptions along a transformation path that is endless without human defined rules or boxes of souls, bodies or pre-defined or destined paths or shapes.

I hope the above adds to the dialog.

Sat Sri Akal.
 

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
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Dec 21, 2010
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Satyaban ji thanks for your post.
I have to assume that one who does not accept reincarnation can not accept the law of karma either.
What is your understanding of Karma in the context of reincarnation? I do not believe that there needs to be a 1 to 1 mapping between Karma as generally understood or as re-incarnation generally understood. In Sikhism there is reference to "sow so shall you reap" but it is not a 1 to 1 mapping in like or in kind but a holistic view of confluence of how you act will make you.

"Without reincarnation the only karma possible is what I call "cash" karma, like if you punch someone in the face today and someone punches you tomorrow."
Sikhism does not espouse your referred "Cash Karma" either. The generally "eye for an eye" and "tooth for a tooth" as in Islam or perhaps other Karmic doctrines.

Peoples' births would be totally random events and we would only have one lifetime to process the mysteries of The Creator and reach salvation.
Recognizing all the ways of the creator or creation is not an achievable goal either set or sought in Sikhism. Rather living in consonance at the times of your life is the only encouraged path. Consonance based on most understanding of creator and creation is encouraged but absolute knowledge or knowing neither sought nor encouraged to be sought for practical Sikh living. It is identified as a self defeating goal not worthy of setting.
The situation one was born into could be a great disadvantage on the path to self realization and enlightenment.
I find this as abhorrent as you or me are neither advantaged nor disadvantaged by birth to live in consonance with the creator or creation. This line of thought has created too much ill and misery in the world through class systems, the haves and have-nots by birth, and so on.

I believe everyone will be reunited with The Creator and it can not be done in one lifetime.
In Sikhism you are not un-merged from creator or the creation. It is simply one’s level of understanding that is amiss.One does not glow in the dark when one enlightens oneself. One simply removes darkness on the inside. One simply starts to see it all more clearly. In such a state one does not become higher or lower, etc., compared to anyone else either.

I welcome comments.

Sat Sri Akal.
 

Sherdil

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Jan 19, 2014
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Tigerstylez ji quoted in his post that the Gurus used examples from different religious beliefs, but in a different context, depending on if they were trying to reach a Hindu or Muslim audience. I agree with that.

Moreover, the mind is the one that commits sins and reaps bad karma. Then why is the soul made to suffer for the sins of the mind? Doesn't make sense to me, and I don't think this is what our Gurus thought either. They said that we have to conquer the 5 thieves, and they reside in our mind. They make up our thought process.

Also, how does a tiger, or any other animal attain good karma or bad karma? Which life-form is above and below a tiger? I once heard someone say that if you think of money before you die, you will come back as a snake. Does that mean that all snakes are greedy? If I place some money before a snake, will it ask me for more?
 
Aug 27, 2005
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Baltimore Md USA
Ambarsaria Namaste

I believe that karma has a considerable influence situations at birth both to keep balance and for the evolution of the soul. For instance some who was irresponsible with their wealth may be born poor in the next life also I believe that some karma can not be balanced in one lifetime like that of a murderer or child molester. Not necessarily an eye for an eye but life experiences to also evolve spiritually.

We can not learn all the ways of The Creator but through with more intimate contact we live a more spiritual life and by that our karma comes into balance Sri Parmahansaramakrishna said we should experience all religions.

Situations of birth has much to do with where one continues on their spiritual path as all are on a spiritual path.

I believe that The Creator is in everything and everyone as the spark is still a part of the fire. The ocean's spray is still apart of the ocean. In essence we are The Creator and when all karma is resolved we will merge back with The Creator who I call Shiva.

This is what I believe

Thank you for this conversation.

Satyaban
 
Aug 27, 2005
328
223
76
Baltimore Md USA
Tigerstylez ji quoted in his post that the Gurus used examples from different religious beliefs, but in a different context, depending on if they were trying to reach a Hindu or Muslim audience. I agree with that.

Moreover, the mind is the one that commits sins and reaps bad karma. Then why is the soul made to suffer for the sins of the mind? Doesn't make sense to me, and I don't think this is what our Gurus thought either. They said that we have to conquer the 5 thieves, and they reside in our mind. They make up our thought process.

Also, how does a tiger, or any other animal attain good karma or bad karma? Which life-form is above and below a tiger? I once heard someone say that if you think of money before you die, you will come back as a snake. Does that mean that all snakes are greedy? If I place some money before a snake, will it ask me for more?

There no "good" karma or "bad" it is something that has to be kept in balance. Good and bad are perspectives only on this temporal plane and whether you consider an event or thought good or bad is determined by your perspective in Maya. Everyone does what they think is in their own best interest so what one person may think is good you nay think is bad.

If you are really interested I would suggest you visit a reputable website.
 

Sherdil

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Jan 19, 2014
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There no "good" karma or "bad" it is something that has to be kept in balance. Good and bad are perspectives only on this temporal plane and whether you consider an event or thought good or bad is determined by your perspective in Maya. Everyone does what they think is in their own best interest so what one person may think is good you nay think is bad.

If you are really interested I would suggest you visit a reputable website.

I understand Maya enough to know that good and bad are qualities we attribute to something, and not inherent to that something. This is taught in GGS.

By good karma, I was referring to that which brings you closer to liberation. By bad karma, I meant the opposite.

I'm sure you would agree that it is "good" to move closer to liberation, and it is "bad" to move farther away from liberation.
 
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