Not that anything wrong with your question to randip singh but out of curioslity " the shoes and leather belts/walets - would Guru Gobind Singh ji allow to use that/ all most of the drugs you use are found through research on rats etc would it be ethical for you to use and in effect be part of that - or simply put would Guru Sahib allow that" ?
Fools Who Wrangle Over Flesh
- Thread starter Randip Singh
- Start date
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Harsimran Singh
SPNer
- Sep 20, 2008
- 6
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WaheGuru Ji ka Khalsa, WaheGuru ji ki Fateh,
Yes you are right, Guru Gobind Singh Ji wouldn't allow any of that either, and therefore I don't buy or use any products or clothing made from leather, wool, fur etc. WE can only be so perfect and I am not saying that just by not eating meat that i am doing the greatest thing, but i do believe that it is a big step in solving the many other issues, and I am only saying it in the perspective of Guru Sahib because the restriction was spefically said by Guru Sahib himself about meat, and not of other things, and that is why i used such words. Again i am specifically talking about the meat issue in the eariler reply, afterall that is what the discussion was about.
WaheGuru Ji Ka Khalsa, WaheGuru Ji ki Fateh!
Harsimran Singh Khalsa
Yes you are right, Guru Gobind Singh Ji wouldn't allow any of that either, and therefore I don't buy or use any products or clothing made from leather, wool, fur etc. WE can only be so perfect and I am not saying that just by not eating meat that i am doing the greatest thing, but i do believe that it is a big step in solving the many other issues, and I am only saying it in the perspective of Guru Sahib because the restriction was spefically said by Guru Sahib himself about meat, and not of other things, and that is why i used such words. Again i am specifically talking about the meat issue in the eariler reply, afterall that is what the discussion was about.
WaheGuru Ji Ka Khalsa, WaheGuru Ji ki Fateh!
Harsimran Singh Khalsa
It is however defined as a ritual slaughter is it not, and confirms my point on the issue is not about pain but about ritualism and ritual slaughter.
Hi Ax0547,
The arguments are being "fudged" here by some people. There is one constant in Sikhism, whether it be rejection of Janeo, rejection of giving water to anscestors, rejection of Anustrani (food to ancestor on funeral piles), or ritually prepared food.
Sikhism rejects ritualism.
Harsimran singh ji
You are forgetting one thing that both 6th guru and 10th guru were avid hunters.And Hunting is Not so Humane way of killing an animal.Sikhs along with the guru's hunted animals No where restriction is put by guru's Not to Eat Hunted meat
Harsimran Singh
SPNer
- Sep 20, 2008
- 6
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WaheGuru Ji ka Khalsa, WaheGuru Ji Ki Fateh!
Dear kds1980 Ji,
Sure, maybe the two Gurus were hunters, but if your saying that hunting is not so humane, are you saying that the Gurus liked to see the animals suffer to death? I hope thats not what your trying to say. If however your saying hunting is infact inhumane, and by comparing that to chickens getting their beeks removed while still concious(halaal), cows getting horns removed while still conscious(halaal), and pigs being burned alive to remove the their hair while still conscious(halaal), ask yourself what would be inhumane. If we are talking about today, how many people actually hunt for their meat?
OFF TOPIC DELETED
Dear kds1980 Ji,
Sure, maybe the two Gurus were hunters, but if your saying that hunting is not so humane, are you saying that the Gurus liked to see the animals suffer to death? I hope thats not what your trying to say. If however your saying hunting is infact inhumane, and by comparing that to chickens getting their beeks removed while still concious(halaal), cows getting horns removed while still conscious(halaal), and pigs being burned alive to remove the their hair while still conscious(halaal), ask yourself what would be inhumane. If we are talking about today, how many people actually hunt for their meat?
OFF TOPIC DELETED
It does confirm your point about ritualism and ritual slaughter. I was addressing the factual inaccuracy in the cited paragraph by Dr. I. J. Singh. At least to my mind, he seems to be going beyond ritual and making a factually inaccurate generalization about "one semitic practice." The "semitic" practices are not the same. There is no prayer associated with "kosher" slaughter. I know I must sound like a nit-picker but this misunderstanding occurs time and again. Observant Jews are not permitted to eat halal meat anymore than are Sikhs.
And one semitic practice clearly rejected in the Sikh code of conduct is eating flesh of an animal cooked in ritualistic manner; this would mean kosher and halal meat. The reason again does not lie in religious tenet but in the view that killing an animal with a prayer is not going to enoble the flesh. No ritual, whoever conducts it, is going to do any good either to the animal or to the diner. Let man do what he must to assuage his hunger. If what he gets, he puts to good use and shares with the needy, then it is well used and well spent, otherwise not.
Sikhs and Sikhism, Dr. I.J.Singh, Manohar Publishers.
What is Halal?
In Islam, Halal is an Arabic term meaning “lawful or permissible” and not only encompasses food and drink, but all matters of daily life.
The following is a partial list of Halal non-meat products:
The Social Context of Halal
Halal applies not only to food products but to all aspects of life and social context. One may hear mention of, "Halal money." What does this mean? For example, if a new religious center, school, hospital or any facility for social benefit is to be built, the funding must come from "clean" money or what is known as "Halal income." For example, money derived from gambling, the selling of alcohol, drug trafficking, illicit social vices, or any illegal activity is considered Haram or detrimental to society and therefore not acceptable or considered a Halal income.
This is but one brief example of Halal in a social context. Therefore, when one hears the word Halal outside the food industry, one must think of it as a way in conduct of all aspects of life and betterment of society. Halal certification of food also means a pure and more wholesome nourishment for mankind.
What is Haram?
The opposite of Halal is Haram, which means “unlawful, not permissible or prohibited.”
They may also be summarized as: A. B. C. I. S.
A: Alcohol
B: Blood
C: Carniverous animals or carriers of disease
I: Idolartry (any animals or poultry sacrificed for voodoo, witchcraft or anything
denying the existance of the the Deity is the same as paganism or atheism.)
S: Swine and all pork by-products and/or derivatives
The following products are Haram and negate the Halal status:
Halal Education
Many people assume that Halal and Kosher are the same thing. They are mistaken! If a product is Kosher certified, it does not mean the product is automatically Halal. The Kosher process differs from what is allowable by the Islamic Shari'a. For example, there are Kosher wines and alcohol but this is not permissible or acceptable for Halal foods. Another example of the difference between Halal and Kosher are slaughter procedures. For Halal meat and poultry processing, the Muslim slaughterman is required to acknowledge God's Creation and to thank God for providing sustenance by stating a prayer before each and every slaughter. Muslim slaughtermen invoke God's name before each and every slaughter with the statement, “In the name of God – God is the Greatest/Bismillahi Allahu Akbar.” The Shochet, or Jewish slaughterman, does not and is not required to invoke God's name on each animal before each slaughter. With Halal slaughtering, the entire carcas is utilized. With Kosher slaughtering, only the front four-quarter of the beef carcass is utilized. The Kosher hind quarters cannot be considered Halal as the Shochet does not adhere to Islamic Law and Halal guidelines and does not pronounce the name of God before each slaughter. Within the meat industry, some companies and distributors attempt to claim or purport Kosher hind quarters to be sold as "Halal" beef. Within Islam, Kosher slaughtering and handling is respected and industry is responsible to understand the guidelines and differences between Halal slaughter, invoking God's name before each slaughter, and traditional Kosher slaughter rites and not mislead consumers.
Simply put, Halal and Kosher are similar but yet as different as "vegetarian" and "vegan." However, it is a fact in some situations and circumstances, Kosher consumers accept Halal and some Halal consumers may accept Kosher.
ISA offers educational seminars on topics such as:
ISA employs the largest well-trained group of highly qualified Islamic slaughtermen for the meat and poultry industry. Our slaughtermen travel throughout the United States to various U.S.D.A./F.D.A. plants to perform Islamic supervision, inspection, and Halal slaughtering.
Halal products are derived from animals and/or poultry that have been slaughtered according to Islamic law under the following statement, “In the name of God – God is the Greatest/Bismillahi Allahu Akbar.” The animals and/or poultry are slaughtered by means of a sharp knife, cutting through the skin, jugular vein, and trachea to result in thorough bleeding of the carcass in preparation for dressing and evisceration in accordance with Islamic guidelines. Halal products and production are properly separated and properly identified.
Ingredient Analysis of Non-Meat Items
ISA has a team of food analysts that analyze ingredients to qualify what can be produced and sold to consumers as Halal. Just as with meat and poultry there are ingredients that are Haram and should be avoided. The most common types of ingredients that are most notably Haram are gelatin (excluding fish gelatin), lard and alcohol.
ISA staff has done extensive work and cooperation within the potato industry, cheese manufacturing, and the ice cream ingredient manufacturing sector.
In Islam, Halal is an Arabic term meaning “lawful or permissible” and not only encompasses food and drink, but all matters of daily life.
The following is a partial list of Halal non-meat products:
- Bread products
- Cereals – breakfast, natural and organic
- Cheese and cheese products and coatings
- Coffee mixes
- Dairy Products – whipped toppings and drink mixes
- Desserts – cakes and pastries
- Eggs – powdered, frozen, and processed
- Fish and Seafood
- French fries and Processed Potatoes
- Fruits – fresh and/or dried
- Grains
- Honey
- Ice Cream / Ice Cream Toppings
- Jams and Jellies
- Legumes and Nuts
- Milk (from species considered Halal)
- Pastry Items – frostings and coatings
- Pastas
- Peanut Butter
- Pizzas
- Plants (which are non-intoxicating)
- Sauces and dressings
- Seasonings
- Soup and Soup Base
- Syrups – table and flavored
- Tea Blends
- Vegetables – fresh and frozen
- Capsules - Pharmaceutical and Vitamin
- Cosmetics
- Nutritional supplements
- Protein powders
- Vitamins and minerals
The Social Context of Halal
Halal applies not only to food products but to all aspects of life and social context. One may hear mention of, "Halal money." What does this mean? For example, if a new religious center, school, hospital or any facility for social benefit is to be built, the funding must come from "clean" money or what is known as "Halal income." For example, money derived from gambling, the selling of alcohol, drug trafficking, illicit social vices, or any illegal activity is considered Haram or detrimental to society and therefore not acceptable or considered a Halal income.
This is but one brief example of Halal in a social context. Therefore, when one hears the word Halal outside the food industry, one must think of it as a way in conduct of all aspects of life and betterment of society. Halal certification of food also means a pure and more wholesome nourishment for mankind.
What is Haram?
The opposite of Halal is Haram, which means “unlawful, not permissible or prohibited.”
They may also be summarized as: A. B. C. I. S.
A: Alcohol
B: Blood
C: Carniverous animals or carriers of disease
I: Idolartry (any animals or poultry sacrificed for voodoo, witchcraft or anything
denying the existance of the the Deity is the same as paganism or atheism.)
S: Swine and all pork by-products and/or derivatives
The following products are Haram and negate the Halal status:
- Swine/pork and all of its by-products
- Animals improperly slaughtered or dead before slaughtering
- Animals killed or falsely sacrificed in any name other than God, the Merciful such as slaughter of "false sacrifice" to witchcraft, paganism, voodoo or idolatry are forbidden.
- Alcohol, intoxicants and narcotic drugs
- Carniverous animals, birds of prey and scavenger animals or foul
- Blood and blood by-products (blood is the circulatory cleansing fluid of the body and is not to be consumed)
- Foods contaminated with any of the above products or contaminated with "impurities" (in Arabic, "najis") from processing, such as manure, urine, rodent droppings, infectous fluids, pus, etc are considered Haram.
- Alcohol
- Non-Halal Animal Fat
- Enzymes *Microbial Enzymes are permissible
- Gelatin *- from non-Halal source (fish gelatin is Halal)
- L-cysteine (if from human hair)
- Lard
- Lipase* only animal lipase need be avoided
- Non-Halal Animal Shortening
- Pork Bacon
- Pork Ham
- Unspecified Meat Broth
- Rennet* All forms should be avoided except for plant/microbial/synthetic.
- Rum
- Stock* - a blend of mix species broth or meat stock
- Tallow* - non-Halal species
- Wine
Halal Education
Many people assume that Halal and Kosher are the same thing. They are mistaken! If a product is Kosher certified, it does not mean the product is automatically Halal. The Kosher process differs from what is allowable by the Islamic Shari'a. For example, there are Kosher wines and alcohol but this is not permissible or acceptable for Halal foods. Another example of the difference between Halal and Kosher are slaughter procedures. For Halal meat and poultry processing, the Muslim slaughterman is required to acknowledge God's Creation and to thank God for providing sustenance by stating a prayer before each and every slaughter. Muslim slaughtermen invoke God's name before each and every slaughter with the statement, “In the name of God – God is the Greatest/Bismillahi Allahu Akbar.” The Shochet, or Jewish slaughterman, does not and is not required to invoke God's name on each animal before each slaughter. With Halal slaughtering, the entire carcas is utilized. With Kosher slaughtering, only the front four-quarter of the beef carcass is utilized. The Kosher hind quarters cannot be considered Halal as the Shochet does not adhere to Islamic Law and Halal guidelines and does not pronounce the name of God before each slaughter. Within the meat industry, some companies and distributors attempt to claim or purport Kosher hind quarters to be sold as "Halal" beef. Within Islam, Kosher slaughtering and handling is respected and industry is responsible to understand the guidelines and differences between Halal slaughter, invoking God's name before each slaughter, and traditional Kosher slaughter rites and not mislead consumers.
Simply put, Halal and Kosher are similar but yet as different as "vegetarian" and "vegan." However, it is a fact in some situations and circumstances, Kosher consumers accept Halal and some Halal consumers may accept Kosher.
ISA offers educational seminars on topics such as:
- Halal requirements
- The difference between Halal and Kosher
- The Halal industry
- Ingredient Analysis
ISA employs the largest well-trained group of highly qualified Islamic slaughtermen for the meat and poultry industry. Our slaughtermen travel throughout the United States to various U.S.D.A./F.D.A. plants to perform Islamic supervision, inspection, and Halal slaughtering.
Halal products are derived from animals and/or poultry that have been slaughtered according to Islamic law under the following statement, “In the name of God – God is the Greatest/Bismillahi Allahu Akbar.” The animals and/or poultry are slaughtered by means of a sharp knife, cutting through the skin, jugular vein, and trachea to result in thorough bleeding of the carcass in preparation for dressing and evisceration in accordance with Islamic guidelines. Halal products and production are properly separated and properly identified.
Ingredient Analysis of Non-Meat Items
ISA has a team of food analysts that analyze ingredients to qualify what can be produced and sold to consumers as Halal. Just as with meat and poultry there are ingredients that are Haram and should be avoided. The most common types of ingredients that are most notably Haram are gelatin (excluding fish gelatin), lard and alcohol.
ISA staff has done extensive work and cooperation within the potato industry, cheese manufacturing, and the ice cream ingredient manufacturing sector.
I am not trying to say that Guru's liked to see animal suffer to death But If we compare cruelity of halal with hunting I don't think we will find much difference.Then the question is why was halal banned and hunting was not?
I don't know whether you live in India or not But I am still saying just see the plight of useless cows and oxen in India and tell whether they should be killed for meat or not.
They are not born or raised for meat But they suffer much more as they become useless for humans
As far cruelities you mentioned they mostly happen in USA or europe.In India their are other types of cruelities which are related to meat industry or some other industry.
The fact is as long as we use animals for any purpose cruelity is invloved whether it is obtaining meat,milk or castrating them and Forcing them to pull load.But In this way human civilisation is developed.So I don't find any special cruelity involved with only meat industry.
The main culprit here is not meat But it is Hi fi life style and over consumption of anything
whether it is Meat,milk,sugar and tasty foods, over Consumption of electricity,Gasoline and list goes on
And solution is simple lifestyle.But instead of this people prefer to target only and only meat
whether it is Meat,milk,sugar and tasty foods, over Consumption of electricity,Gasoline and list goes on
And solution is simple lifestyle.But instead of this people prefer to target only and only meat
Harsimran Singh
SPNer
- Sep 20, 2008
- 6
- 0
WaheGuru Ji ka Khalsa, WaheGuru Ji Ki Fateh!
Dear KDS 1980,
"Then the question is why was halal banned and hunting was not?" - KDS 1980
I am not a hunter, but from my best guess, I think hunting was not banned and halaal was banned on the basis of cruelty. You are right, hunting can be creul, it depends on how you kill the animal. If the Guru ever hunted then I am sure they killed the animal with the "Jhatka" method which we know is not considered creul, and that is why the Gurus did not ban hunting versus Halaal.
I live in Canada, but I have been to India, and it is very sad to see the animals once they become useless. Now please remember, I am not against eating meat, I am against eating meat slaughtered in creulty. Now your asking, "whether useless animals should be killed for meat or not?". Again, this is where creutly versus Jhakta comes in, if you can know that the meat was not killed in a creul manner and the method of Jhatka was applied, then sure, why not, they can be used as meat, so that is totally up to local people to decide.
Yes you are right, cruelty occurs not just in the meat industry, but what i am trying to apply is what was considered wrong by Guru Sahib and the basic principles of Sikhism. Again, if you want to continue to eat meat, then go ahead, it is an individual choice, but I do believe it is a big step in fighting all of the other issues.
WaheGuru Ji Ka Khalsa, WaheGuru Ji Ki Fateh!
Harsimran Singh Khalsa
Dear KDS 1980,
"Then the question is why was halal banned and hunting was not?" - KDS 1980
I am not a hunter, but from my best guess, I think hunting was not banned and halaal was banned on the basis of cruelty. You are right, hunting can be creul, it depends on how you kill the animal. If the Guru ever hunted then I am sure they killed the animal with the "Jhatka" method which we know is not considered creul, and that is why the Gurus did not ban hunting versus Halaal.
I live in Canada, but I have been to India, and it is very sad to see the animals once they become useless. Now please remember, I am not against eating meat, I am against eating meat slaughtered in creulty. Now your asking, "whether useless animals should be killed for meat or not?". Again, this is where creutly versus Jhakta comes in, if you can know that the meat was not killed in a creul manner and the method of Jhatka was applied, then sure, why not, they can be used as meat, so that is totally up to local people to decide.
Yes you are right, cruelty occurs not just in the meat industry, but what i am trying to apply is what was considered wrong by Guru Sahib and the basic principles of Sikhism. Again, if you want to continue to eat meat, then go ahead, it is an individual choice, but I do believe it is a big step in fighting all of the other issues.
WaheGuru Ji Ka Khalsa, WaheGuru Ji Ki Fateh!
Harsimran Singh Khalsa
I see what you mean. One form of ennobling the flesh is not as good as the other .
I think our Guru's saw the divisive nature of such ritual practice and therefore brushed it aside once and for all. Incredibly far sighted thinking.
BhagatSingh
SPNer
- Apr 24, 2006
- 2,921
- 1,656
I don't think its possible to do jhatka with a bow and an arrow.
Your argument fails because MUslims claim Halal to be humane too?
Halal Food Authority :: Definition of Halal
Our Guru's never got themselves embroiled in this "Humane" killing business, because humane killing in itself is an Oxy{censored}.
The key to understanding the Sikh belief is the abhorrence to ritualism.
I see what you mean. One form of ennobling the flesh is not as good as the other .
I think our Guru's saw the divisive nature of such ritual practice and therefore brushed it aside once and for all. Incredibly far sighted thinking.
Randip ji
Yes
The Gurus did not kill in a cruel way. They did it in the proper way Jhatka, one blow and the animal is dead.:yes:
BhagatSingh
SPNer
- Apr 24, 2006
- 2,921
- 1,656
How does one perform jhatka with a bow and arrows?
With this questions of yours are you questioning Guru ji ability or the bow and arrow, which is shot with Guru ji ability?
The Sikh Religon And Eating Meat
The Sikh Religon And Eating Meat
Sat Sri Akal,
In Canada 97% percent of Canadians purchase chicken every weak. I do not think that there are medical facts which prove that meat makes the body overly acidic. The Canadian Food Guide Recommends 3 servings of Meat and Alternative a day for a Male ages 19-50. (http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/fn-an/food-guide-aliment/index-eng.php) and the American My Pyramid Food Guide suggests that for a 2000 calorie diet 5 ½ ounces of meat and alternatives everyday. The Canadain Food Guide also recommends that you should have atleast 2 servings of fish a week. In terms of meditation some of the best Tai Chi and Yoga instructors in the world eat meat every day. In terms of morally, killing an animal for eating purposes in a non-cruel way to eat is completely justifiable in my view. The real Sikh belief is that we do not accept eating Halaal meat as the animals are tortured before they are killed.
What is called meat, and what is called green vegetables? What leads to sin?
ਗੈਂਡਾਮਾਰਿਹੋਮਜਗਕੀਏਦੇਵਤਿਆਕੀਬਾਣੇ॥
गैंडामारिहोमजगकीएदेवतिआकीबाणे॥
Gaiʼndā mār hom jag kī▫e ḏeviṯi▫ā kī bāṇe.
It was the habit of the gods to kill the rhinoceros, and make a feast of the burnt offering.
ਮਾਸੁਛੋਡਿਬੈਸਿਨਕੁਪਕੜਹਿਰਾਤੀਮਾਣਸਖਾਣੇ॥
मासुछोडिबैसिनकुपकड़हिरातीमाणसखाणे॥
Mās cẖẖod bais nak pakṛėh rāṯī māṇas kẖāṇe.
Those who renounce meat, and hold their noses when sitting near it, devour men at night.
ਫੜੁਕਰਿਲੋਕਾਂਨੋਦਿਖਲਾਵਹਿਗਿਆਨੁਧਿਆਨੁਨਹੀਸੂਝੈ॥
फड़ुकरिलोकांनोदिखलावहिगिआनुधिआनुनहीसूझै॥
Faṛ kar lokāʼn no ḏikẖlāvahi gi▫ān ḏẖi▫ān nahī sūjẖai.
They practice hypocrisy, and make a show before other people, but they do not understand anything about meditation or spiritual wisdom. Guru Nanak Dev Ji
“
ਬਹੁਦੁਖੁਪਾਇਆਦੂਜਾਭਾਇਆ॥
बहुदुखुपाइआदूजाभाइआ॥
Baho ḏukẖ pā▫i▫ā ḏūjā bẖā▫i▫ā.duality. “
First Mehl:
ਲਿਖਿਲਿਖਿਪੜਿਆ॥
लिखिलिखिपड़िआ॥
Likẖ likẖ paṛi▫ā.
The more one write and reads,
ਤੇਤਾਕੜਿਆ॥
तेताकड़िआ॥
Ŧeṯā kaṛi▫ā.
the more one burns.
ਬਹੁਤੀਰਥਭਵਿਆ॥
बहुतीरथभविआ॥
Baho ṯirath bẖavi▫ā.
The more one wanders at sacred shrines of pilgrimage,
ਤੇਤੋਲਵਿਆ॥
तेतोलविआ॥
Ŧeṯo lavi▫ā.
the more one talks uselessly.
ਬਹੁਭੇਖਕੀਆਦੇਹੀਦੁਖੁਦੀਆ॥
बहुभेखकीआदेहीदुखुदीआ॥
Baho bẖekẖ kī▫ā ḏehī ḏukẖḏī▫ā.
The more one wears religious robes, the more pain he causes his body.
ਸਹੁਵੇਜੀਆਅਪਣਾਕੀਆ॥
सहुवेजीआअपणाकीआ॥
Saho ve jī▫ā apṇā kī▫ā.
O my soul, you must endure the consequences of your own actions.
ਅੰਨੁਨਖਾਇਆਸਾਦੁਗਵਾਇਆ॥
अंनुनखाइआसादुगवाइआ॥
Ann na kẖā▫i▫ā sāḏ gavā▫i▫ā.
One who does not eat the corn, misses out on the taste.
ਬਹੁਦੁਖੁਪਾਇਆਦੂਜਾਭਾਇਆ॥
बहुदुखुपाइआदूजाभाइआ॥
Baho ḏukẖ pā▫i▫ā ḏūjā bẖā▫i▫ā.
One obtains great pain, in the love of duality.
ਬਸਤ੍ਰਨਪਹਿਰੈ॥
बसत्रनपहिरै॥
Basṯar na pahirai.
One who does not wear any clothes,
ਅਹਿਨਿਸਿਕਹਰੈ॥
अहिनिसिकहरै॥
Ahinis kahrai.
suffers night and day.
ਮੋਨਿਵਿਗੂਤਾ॥
मोनिविगूता॥
Mon vigūṯā.
Through silence, he is ruined.
ਕਿਉਜਾਗੈਗੁਰਬਿਨੁਸੂਤਾ॥
किउजागैगुरबिनुसूता॥
Ki▫o jāgai gur bin sūṯā.
How can the sleeping one be awakened without the Guru?
ਪਗਉਪੇਤਾਣਾ॥
पगउपेताणा॥
Pag upeṯāṇā.
One who goes barefoot
ਅਪਣਾਕੀਆਕਮਾਣਾ॥
अपणाकीआकमाणा॥
Apṇā kī▫ā kamāṇā.
suffers by his own actions.
ਅਲੁਮਲੁਖਾਈਸਿਰਿਛਾਈਪਾਈ॥
अलुमलुखाईसिरिछाईपाई॥
Al mal kẖā▫ī sir cẖẖā▫ī pā▫ī.
One who eats filth and throws ashes on his head -
ਮੂਰਖਿਅੰਧੈਪਤਿਗਵਾਈ॥
मूरखिअंधैपतिगवाई॥
Mūrakẖ anḏẖai paṯ gavā▫ī.
the blind fool loses his honor.
ਵਿਣੁਨਾਵੈਕਿਛੁਥਾਇਨਪਾਈ॥
विणुनावैकिछुथाइनपाई॥
viṇ nāvai kicẖẖ thā▫e na pā▫ī.
Without the Name, nothing is of any use.
ਰਹੈਬੇਬਾਣੀਮੜੀਮਸਾਣੀ॥
रहैबेबाणीमड़ीमसाणी॥
Rahai bebāṇī maṛī masāṇī.
One who lives in the wilderness, in cemetaries and cremation grounds -
ਅੰਧੁਨਜਾਣੈਫਿਰਿਪਛੁਤਾਣੀ॥
अंधुनजाणैफिरिपछुताणी॥
Anḏẖ na jāṇai fir pacẖẖuṯāṇī.
that blind man does not know the Lord; he regrets and repents in the end.”
Page 467, Guru Nanak Dev Ji
So there is another aspect in Sikhism as well, “One who does not eat the corn, misses out on the taste.” (page 467). If we do not take the opportunity to be healthy then we miss out. For example meat has the protein our bodies needs and fish has the omega oils and many minerals which our bodies need to be healthy as well. I remember a lecture by Yogi Bhajan where he claimed with no medical facts that fish drains the water from our body. For a short while I listened to him on that point and when my Mother would spend so much time and put so much love into making a meal with fish I would not want to take much of it. Now I am much more sensible and I strongly feel that the Gurus wanted us to be practical people. My opinion is look “God wouldn’t give out bad karmas to someone who eats meat, instead to the caring, loving mother who cooks a good meal with meat which is often much harder to prepare he would reward her in whatever way he could.”
The Sikh Religon And Eating Meat
Sat Sri Akal,
In Canada 97% percent of Canadians purchase chicken every weak. I do not think that there are medical facts which prove that meat makes the body overly acidic. The Canadian Food Guide Recommends 3 servings of Meat and Alternative a day for a Male ages 19-50. (http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/fn-an/food-guide-aliment/index-eng.php) and the American My Pyramid Food Guide suggests that for a 2000 calorie diet 5 ½ ounces of meat and alternatives everyday. The Canadain Food Guide also recommends that you should have atleast 2 servings of fish a week. In terms of meditation some of the best Tai Chi and Yoga instructors in the world eat meat every day. In terms of morally, killing an animal for eating purposes in a non-cruel way to eat is completely justifiable in my view. The real Sikh belief is that we do not accept eating Halaal meat as the animals are tortured before they are killed.
What is called meat, and what is called green vegetables? What leads to sin?
ਗੈਂਡਾਮਾਰਿਹੋਮਜਗਕੀਏਦੇਵਤਿਆਕੀਬਾਣੇ॥
गैंडामारिहोमजगकीएदेवतिआकीबाणे॥
Gaiʼndā mār hom jag kī▫e ḏeviṯi▫ā kī bāṇe.
It was the habit of the gods to kill the rhinoceros, and make a feast of the burnt offering.
ਮਾਸੁਛੋਡਿਬੈਸਿਨਕੁਪਕੜਹਿਰਾਤੀਮਾਣਸਖਾਣੇ॥
मासुछोडिबैसिनकुपकड़हिरातीमाणसखाणे॥
Mās cẖẖod bais nak pakṛėh rāṯī māṇas kẖāṇe.
Those who renounce meat, and hold their noses when sitting near it, devour men at night.
ਫੜੁਕਰਿਲੋਕਾਂਨੋਦਿਖਲਾਵਹਿਗਿਆਨੁਧਿਆਨੁਨਹੀਸੂਝੈ॥
फड़ुकरिलोकांनोदिखलावहिगिआनुधिआनुनहीसूझै॥
Faṛ kar lokāʼn no ḏikẖlāvahi gi▫ān ḏẖi▫ān nahī sūjẖai.
They practice hypocrisy, and make a show before other people, but they do not understand anything about meditation or spiritual wisdom. Guru Nanak Dev Ji
“
ਬਹੁਦੁਖੁਪਾਇਆਦੂਜਾਭਾਇਆ॥
बहुदुखुपाइआदूजाभाइआ॥
Baho ḏukẖ pā▫i▫ā ḏūjā bẖā▫i▫ā.duality. “
First Mehl:
ਲਿਖਿਲਿਖਿਪੜਿਆ॥
लिखिलिखिपड़िआ॥
Likẖ likẖ paṛi▫ā.
The more one write and reads,
ਤੇਤਾਕੜਿਆ॥
तेताकड़िआ॥
Ŧeṯā kaṛi▫ā.
the more one burns.
ਬਹੁਤੀਰਥਭਵਿਆ॥
बहुतीरथभविआ॥
Baho ṯirath bẖavi▫ā.
The more one wanders at sacred shrines of pilgrimage,
ਤੇਤੋਲਵਿਆ॥
तेतोलविआ॥
Ŧeṯo lavi▫ā.
the more one talks uselessly.
ਬਹੁਭੇਖਕੀਆਦੇਹੀਦੁਖੁਦੀਆ॥
बहुभेखकीआदेहीदुखुदीआ॥
Baho bẖekẖ kī▫ā ḏehī ḏukẖḏī▫ā.
The more one wears religious robes, the more pain he causes his body.
ਸਹੁਵੇਜੀਆਅਪਣਾਕੀਆ॥
सहुवेजीआअपणाकीआ॥
Saho ve jī▫ā apṇā kī▫ā.
O my soul, you must endure the consequences of your own actions.
ਅੰਨੁਨਖਾਇਆਸਾਦੁਗਵਾਇਆ॥
अंनुनखाइआसादुगवाइआ॥
Ann na kẖā▫i▫ā sāḏ gavā▫i▫ā.
One who does not eat the corn, misses out on the taste.
ਬਹੁਦੁਖੁਪਾਇਆਦੂਜਾਭਾਇਆ॥
बहुदुखुपाइआदूजाभाइआ॥
Baho ḏukẖ pā▫i▫ā ḏūjā bẖā▫i▫ā.
One obtains great pain, in the love of duality.
ਬਸਤ੍ਰਨਪਹਿਰੈ॥
बसत्रनपहिरै॥
Basṯar na pahirai.
One who does not wear any clothes,
ਅਹਿਨਿਸਿਕਹਰੈ॥
अहिनिसिकहरै॥
Ahinis kahrai.
suffers night and day.
ਮੋਨਿਵਿਗੂਤਾ॥
मोनिविगूता॥
Mon vigūṯā.
Through silence, he is ruined.
ਕਿਉਜਾਗੈਗੁਰਬਿਨੁਸੂਤਾ॥
किउजागैगुरबिनुसूता॥
Ki▫o jāgai gur bin sūṯā.
How can the sleeping one be awakened without the Guru?
ਪਗਉਪੇਤਾਣਾ॥
पगउपेताणा॥
Pag upeṯāṇā.
One who goes barefoot
ਅਪਣਾਕੀਆਕਮਾਣਾ॥
अपणाकीआकमाणा॥
Apṇā kī▫ā kamāṇā.
suffers by his own actions.
ਅਲੁਮਲੁਖਾਈਸਿਰਿਛਾਈਪਾਈ॥
अलुमलुखाईसिरिछाईपाई॥
Al mal kẖā▫ī sir cẖẖā▫ī pā▫ī.
One who eats filth and throws ashes on his head -
ਮੂਰਖਿਅੰਧੈਪਤਿਗਵਾਈ॥
मूरखिअंधैपतिगवाई॥
Mūrakẖ anḏẖai paṯ gavā▫ī.
the blind fool loses his honor.
ਵਿਣੁਨਾਵੈਕਿਛੁਥਾਇਨਪਾਈ॥
विणुनावैकिछुथाइनपाई॥
viṇ nāvai kicẖẖ thā▫e na pā▫ī.
Without the Name, nothing is of any use.
ਰਹੈਬੇਬਾਣੀਮੜੀਮਸਾਣੀ॥
रहैबेबाणीमड़ीमसाणी॥
Rahai bebāṇī maṛī masāṇī.
One who lives in the wilderness, in cemetaries and cremation grounds -
ਅੰਧੁਨਜਾਣੈਫਿਰਿਪਛੁਤਾਣੀ॥
अंधुनजाणैफिरिपछुताणी॥
Anḏẖ na jāṇai fir pacẖẖuṯāṇī.
that blind man does not know the Lord; he regrets and repents in the end.”
Page 467, Guru Nanak Dev Ji
So there is another aspect in Sikhism as well, “One who does not eat the corn, misses out on the taste.” (page 467). If we do not take the opportunity to be healthy then we miss out. For example meat has the protein our bodies needs and fish has the omega oils and many minerals which our bodies need to be healthy as well. I remember a lecture by Yogi Bhajan where he claimed with no medical facts that fish drains the water from our body. For a short while I listened to him on that point and when my Mother would spend so much time and put so much love into making a meal with fish I would not want to take much of it. Now I am much more sensible and I strongly feel that the Gurus wanted us to be practical people. My opinion is look “God wouldn’t give out bad karmas to someone who eats meat, instead to the caring, loving mother who cooks a good meal with meat which is often much harder to prepare he would reward her in whatever way he could.”
Last edited:
BhagatSingh
SPNer
- Apr 24, 2006
- 2,921
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No, I am asking, "How does one perform jhatka with a bow and arrows?"
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